Edina Tryouts... Here's What's Wrong With Youth Hockey

[Sudden Death]

Sorno you have such great insight! Did you get that from the 100 other guys that have said the same thing over and over again on this sight?

People have dreams of making it to the NHL, let them go for it how ever they want. That is not the problem, the problem is that parents can't keep their cool and it comes back on the kid. Get off the soap box! I bet you get a nice warm feeling inside after you write your non-sense.

[sorno82]

No, the insight is my own, and yes, I may be preaching to the choir and we are all in violent agreement. I am also tired of frantic parents who's fragile egos are somehow damaged when their kid does not make a team when someone else does. You look at the kid and they are embarrassed by the way their own parents act.

The warm feeling inside is from the wine left over from my wife's bunko party last night.

'nuff said

[HOFam'r]

I have provided a solution, but many are incapable of handling the solution. It's quite simple! Life is tough and adults need to grow up and realize it's just a game. Show your child love and support, and when things don't go well for him or her show them the proper way to respond.

Solution: Parents relax and enjoy life! Teach your children that life isn't always fair, but winners don't make excuses!!



Carpenterguy- I am very relaxed...always. I have been a hockey parent a long time and have been in business longer and understand more than most about life not being fair as I have laid off people who did everything that was asked of them and have felt the pinch of being cut myself...

However, after taking a company from nothing to number one in their industry and then being let go for a wrong reason should I just walk away and realize that life isnt fair or should I take em to court? Well, I didn't give up and eventually won...so I cannot agree with you on your 'water off the ducks back' mentality...additionally for someone to run around and call people cheaters is unfair as well...the only way to affect change in my mind is to become involved and dont take yourself or the game too seriously...do what's right and dont let the corrupt take you into their gang.
It is true..it's just a sport and is meant to have fun. However, it does mean alot to every kid who straps on the skates and to be ousted because of politics is a shame. Unfortunately the kids dont make the rules...the parents dot do.

Again, we differ on the process but in the end we agree that hockey is game and if you dont take it too seriously the kids actually seem to have fun.

[carpenterguy]

We are talking about elementary aged kids. The way their parents are acting is absolutely insane!

No dreams have been taken away! The parents simply need to get a grip!

[carpenterguy]

This is what should be said to parents whenever they make themselves the center of attention during a youth activity.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public.

[Hockeyguy_27]

wrong thread sorry

[BoogeyMan]

I do not have a problem with the concept of MM. It is no different than the Dance Studios and Gymnastics organizations that proliferate the youth scene. I applaud them for having the guts to build two rinks and to push their vision of what hockey development should be. There is no doubt that kids who go through their program get better. The issue I have is at what cost-mentally, physically, and financially? That program will be the best thing to ever happen to some kids, but it also will hurt some kids along the way who are not ready for such a program. That is where the parent needs to do what is best for their child.

The other issue I have is the promise of greatness if you follow the program all the way through. They have told a lot of mite parents that their kid will be squirt A players if they do their programs. Our association has about 10 kids in the Mite choice program, however, I guarantee you that most of those kids will not make squirt A as a first year player.

I was talking about this with a friend this summer who played for the Gophers and had a brother who played in the NHL. He was just laughing at the vision of all these EP and Edina moms running to MM, checks in hand, hoping that little Johnny will be a star some day.

What Bernie did with the 88s was impressive, but they had already gone through squirts. He also picked the best athletes. According to a LPH article, he evaluated their athletic ability off the ice before picking them for his team. He had a special group-they were great athletes already, and they worked their tale off. That combination will yield success most every time.

Let the kids have fun and let the chips fall were they may.

Sorno, It cost me $8.91 for one practice at MM. It cost me $12.31 for an hour of ice time at my local association. Since there are 12 other kids skating from our association at MM. It was a no brainer. More bang for the buck.
If you're not part of the Choice program. Then you wouldn't understand. Bernie tells the coaches what he wants them to work on. Other than that. Bernie isn't exposed to the Mites.

Put it this way................

If your kid can listen to the coaches. Wants to become a better player. Respect the other players. Minnesota made is the best fit.

I don't know how involved you are with Mite hockey. My son is a second year Mite. Our local association doesn't offer an elite or advanced mite league.
The level of talent in the Mite program is all over the board. You have kids that are learning to skate. On the same team with advanced skaters.

The Beauty of Minnesota made. The kids all tried out for teams. 130 Mites are skating at MM. They also turned away 130 Mites. Which means the kids are all similiar in talent. There's no huge gap of talent. I agree not all the kids are going to make squirt A's. I would say a fair amount will.

Keep in mind that my local association Mites will receive 45 hours of ice time. My son will receive 100 hours of ice time at MM. Included in this will be 16 squirt style games. Real games with referee's. Three fifteen minute periods.
After the games end. The coaches will work any problems they see in the game. So imagine your team is playing a real squirt game. As a coach you see the kids need to work on something. MM has it set up where the coaches will receive another 45 minutes after the game to teach the kids what went wrong. What does your association do after you lose a squirt game? You most likely go home.

Minnesota made is set up to develop the kids. Please don't confuse the AAA teams with the Mite choice league.

Like I said in a previous post. The associations are looking at this all wrong. Don't hate the players that left your association. Ask yourself why they left. And remind yourself that you're going to receive some good skaters in return.

I can promise you that there's not better Mite program in the state of Minnesota. I heard that there are many parents excited for their kids to skate at Minnesota made next year. I wouldn't be surprised if MM had double if not triple as many Mites trying out next year.

To each his own. I agree! Do whats best for your kids and your family. MM is not for all Mites.

PEACE!

[BoogeyMan]

I do not have a problem with the concept of MM. It is no different than the Dance Studios and Gymnastics organizations that proliferate the youth scene. I applaud them for having the guts to build two rinks and to push their vision of what hockey development should be. There is no doubt that kids who go through their program get better. The issue I have is at what cost-mentally, physically, and financially? That program will be the best thing to ever happen to some kids, but it also will hurt some kids along the way who are not ready for such a program. That is where the parent needs to do what is best for their child.

The other issue I have is the promise of greatness if you follow the program all the way through. They have told a lot of mite parents that their kid will be squirt A players if they do their programs. Our association has about 10 kids in the Mite choice program, however, I guarantee you that most of those kids will not make squirt A as a first year player.

I was talking about this with a friend this summer who played for the Gophers and had a brother who played in the NHL. He was just laughing at the vision of all these EP and Edina moms running to MM, checks in hand, hoping that little Johnny will be a star some day.

What Bernie did with the 88s was impressive, but they had already gone through squirts. He also picked the best athletes. According to a LPH article, he evaluated their athletic ability off the ice before picking them for his team. He had a special group-they were great athletes already, and they worked their tale off. That combination will yield success most every time.

Let the kids have fun and let the chips fall were they may.

[sorno82]

Actually, I believe Wayzata has a better mite program since they split it up by ability and kids develop and play at the level they should be at. It is better since they take the kids in the bottom tier and let them play the game with kids of similar ability, not just the top tier. They even have something in between. They also spend a lot of time educating the parent coaches and monitor how things are going. The cost is not that much different than MM, however, MM gives them about twice the ice. At age 7 or 8, that may help them when they are 1st year squirts, but it will even out by the time they are 2nd year. Wayzata does very well at the youth level with only a few kids doing the Machine or Deuce. Wayzata has had outstanding leadership at the Mite level. Parent's whos kids are some of the best around, have decided to dedicate time to lift all kids, not just the top. Hopefully the Wayzata mite program will keep it up now those leaders have moved on as their kids have moved up the ladder.

There are Wayzata kids who are in the Choice program, but they want the extra ice. I also have hear that they think that will make them 1st year squirt As. Some will make it, but most won't due to the strength and depth of the program.

MM works, it is just not for everyone. Nor is it the only path to maximize ones potential.

[BoogeyMan]

Sorno- Agreed! You have to admit that MM is solid. It sounds like Wayzata has a class program.
I like the idea to split the kids up by talent. Makes perfect sense to me. Not too much different than splitting kids up in school. Some are in advanced math and reading classes. Some are not. Funny how you don't hear the people complain about this.

[tomASS]

Parent's whos kids are some of the best around, have decided to dedicate time to lift all kids, not just the top.

I applaud those volunteer coaches who want to give back to the association and help the entire program.

[6ampractice]

Boogeyman wrote;
Since there are 12 other kids skating from our association at MM. It was a no brainer. More bang for the buck.

There were "12 others" at Jonestown as well. Calm down, it was a joke.

Is there any potential that these kids will be treated differently when they come back to the association? We have heard stories all over this forum about players who were treated a certain way because of where they came from, or where they are going. Stories of this have been told at the squirt level, so is it absurd to think that it could happen to these youngsters? As a MM parent, do any of you have concerns about this?

[tomASS]

Is there any potential that these kids will be treated differently when they come back to the association? We have heard stories all over this forum about players who were treated a certain way because of where they came from, or where they are going. Stories of this have been told at the squirt level, so is it absurd to think that it could happen to these youngsters? As a MM parent, do any of you have concerns about this?

Most adults who volunteer their time in association hockey are mature enough not to penalize the kid for the demeanor or antics (for whatever reason not just MM) of their parents. I know our association has enough checks and balances that this should not occur. Of course the accusations will fly if the kid doesn't make a team the parent thinks the kid should make.

[6ampractice]

tomass,
That is the response one would hope for, however hope and reality often produce very different outcomes.
And, yes the accusations will fly if these kids dont make the desired team. But watch the accusations fly if they do!!!

[tomASS]

tomass,
That is the response one would hope for, however hope and reality often produce very different outcomes.
And, yes the accusations will fly if these kids dont make the desired team. But watch the accusations fly if they do!!!

yep you're right ......in a perfect world. - I do know I just assisted with tryouts as an evaluator at the Squirts level (goalies only so no future worries for any skaters coming back to the CCHA) and I can tell you none of us had a clue who was whom on the ice. We are all too removed from the parents and kids trying out.

Always accusations of some sort. But as for me - I never punish the kid for the sins of the parent. In fact I will say a prayer for the kid instead.

[spin-o-rama]

Is there any potential that these kids will be treated differently when they come back to the association? We have heard stories all over this forum about players who were treated a certain way because of where they came from, or where they are going. Stories of this have been told at the squirt level, so is it absurd to think that it could happen to these youngsters? As a MM parent, do any of you have concerns about this?

Most adults who volunteer their time in association hockey are mature enough not to penalize the kid for the demeanor or antics (for whatever reason not just MM) of their parents. I know our association has enough checks and balances that this should not occur. Of course the accusations will fly if the kid doesn't make a team the parent thinks the kid should make.

It has been stated on this forum that there could be blacklisting of MM returnees. Apparently association boards have discussed such ideas because District 6 told their associations that they could not discriminate against a kid for playing MM. Even so, there may be behind the back anti-sentiments towards those families.

I hope that association boards, coaches, graders, etc will welcome back returning lost sheep with a smile and give them a positive experience. Penalizing and scorning will only encourage them to look for an AAA squirt option.

[Can't Never Tried]

Boogeyman wrote;
Since there are 12 other kids skating from our association at MM. It was a no brainer. More bang for the buck.

There were "12 others" at Jonestown as well. Calm down, it was a joke.

Is there any potential that these kids will be treated differently when they come back to the association? We have heard stories all over this forum about players who were treated a certain way because of where they came from, or where they are going. Stories of this have been told at the squirt level, so is it absurd to think that it could happen to these youngsters? As a MM parent, do any of you have concerns about this?

My thought on this would be, it depends on how, and what was said to who, prior to leaving, and of course if your making a big case against your assoc. as to why you chose another program, and blasting the volunteers of that assoc. it may just make for a tough return.
But if your talking about mites here, it probably makes little difference, as your probably pretty much an unknown and no one cared in the 1st place.

[spin-o-rama]

Boogeyman wrote;
Since there are 12 other kids skating from our association at MM. It was a no brainer. More bang for the buck.

There were "12 others" at Jonestown as well. Calm down, it was a joke.

Is there any potential that these kids will be treated differently when they come back to the association? We have heard stories all over this forum about players who were treated a certain way because of where they came from, or where they are going. Stories of this have been told at the squirt level, so is it absurd to think that it could happen to these youngsters? As a MM parent, do any of you have concerns about this?

My thought on this would be, it depends on how, and what was said to who, prior to leaving, and of course if your making a big case against your assoc. as to why you chose another program, and blasting the volunteers of that assoc. it may just make for a tough return.
But if your talking about mites here, it probably makes little difference, as your probably pretty much an unknown and no one cared in the 1st place.

Cheap shots like this are the type of things I was concerned about in my prior post. To limit defections it would be good for associations to know the kids and their parents and to care about them. Encourage them to be involved and make them feel wanted.

[Can't Never Tried]

Boogeyman wrote;
Since there are 12 other kids skating from our association at MM. It was a no brainer. More bang for the buck.

There were "12 others" at Jonestown as well. Calm down, it was a joke.

Is there any potential that these kids will be treated differently when they come back to the association? We have heard stories all over this forum about players who were treated a certain way because of where they came from, or where they are going. Stories of this have been told at the squirt level, so is it absurd to think that it could happen to these youngsters? As a MM parent, do any of you have concerns about this?

My thought on this would be, it depends on how, and what was said to who, prior to leaving, and of course if your making a big case against your assoc. as to why you chose another program, and blasting the volunteers of that assoc. it may just make for a tough return.
But if your talking about mites here, it probably makes little difference, as your probably pretty much an unknown and no one cared in the 1st place.

Cheap shots like this are the type of things I was concerned about in my prior post. To limit defections it would be good for associations to know the kids and their parents and to care about them. Encourage them to be involved and make them feel wanted.

That's not a cheap shot, it's a reality, or are the kids being scouted from birth now?
If your a 1st timer coming in, who really knows who you are? unless it's a small town thing, which I understand.
What I'm saying is, no one is really going to care about something they supposedly lost if they were never really there.

[spin-o-rama]

My thought on this would be, it depends on how, and what was said to who, prior to leaving, and of course if your making a big case against your assoc. as to why you chose another program, and blasting the volunteers of that assoc. it may just make for a tough return.
But if your talking about mites here, it probably makes little difference, as your probably pretty much an unknown and no one cared in the 1st place.

Cheap shots like this are the type of things I was concerned about in my prior post. To limit defections it would be good for associations to know the kids and their parents and to care about them. Encourage them to be involved and make them feel wanted.

That's not a cheap shot, it's a reality, or are the kids being scouted from birth now?
If your a 1st timer coming in, who really knows who you are? unless it's a small town thing, which I understand.
What I'm saying is, no one is really going to care about something they supposedly lost if they were never really there.

I thought you were referring to MM parents and more specifically to 1 parent. I now understand that your statement was a blanket statement about all mites. My apologies.

However, if you want to fight defection of 3rd grade mites then it makes sense to get to know the kids and parents and make them feel part of the association family while you have them in K-2. If after 2-3 years of the system they feel like a part of something they are more likely to stay.

[Can't Never Tried]

Cheap shots like this are the type of things I was concerned about in my prior post. To limit defections it would be good for associations to know the kids and their parents and to care about them. Encourage them to be involved and make them feel wanted.

That's not a cheap shot, it's a reality, or are the kids being scouted from birth now?
If your a 1st timer coming in, who really knows who you are? unless it's a small town thing, which I understand.
What I'm saying is, no one is really going to care about something they supposedly lost if they were never really there.

I thought you were referring to MM parents and more specifically to 1 parent. I now understand that your statement was a blanket statement about all mites. My apologies.

However, if you want to fight defection of 3rd grade mites then it makes sense to get to know the kids and parents and make them feel part of the association family while you have them in K-2. If after 2-3 years of the system they feel like a part of something they are more likely to stay.

How would you know who they are? most Assoc. offer learn to skate classes, and send flyers home from school etc, other then that, not sure how you'd do it. Door to door?
It is a process, and hockey is.....well, I'd say a bit competitive from both the playing and parenting standpoint.
Interesting though, if your talking about returning players, I have seen and experienced this fact, that getting involved and volunteering right away, leads to the best hockey experience all the way thru the process.

[sorno82]

What associations can do is let 4th year mites try out for squirts. I know in our association, there is a handful of kids every year who could make a squirt a or b team as a 4th year mite, but they are not allowed to try out unless they are in 4th grade. I think the desire to have a 1st year squirt make the A team drove a lot of parents to try MM. There also a concern that the kid will be stuck with a coach whom the parents do not approve of.

It is extra ice and coaching that drive parents to MM. Too much emphasis on early success, but it is what it is.

[bamhockey]

CNT, my family is from a large association. If you think that parents do not know who kids are at the mite level you are wrong. I agree that there are kids that you may not remember on the ice. But don't think that there aren't kids, yes at the mite level, who will not be noticed as gone if they are not skating at their association. Kids are not noticed for the first time at the squirt level. There are kids in first grade who are born in 2000 that are being asked to skate on AAA teams. These kids are being noticed at their association and any camps/clinics they may attend. It is a positive to hear that evaluators like tomass are objective in looking and grading the players during evals. This approach will ensure the fairest way of selecting the kids.

[Can't Never Tried]

Too much emphasis on early success, but it is what it is.

Pretty much somes it up!

[tomASS]

The only thing I want clarification on spinorama is you don't truly believe the volunteers that are already giving up a lot to make the a community association work should also become a servant of the Welcome Wagon to make sure everyone feels welcome? Or maybe I am overtstating what you meant.

I agree with CNT, the best way to really feel welcome is to extend your hand and say what can I do to help? You will be made to feel welcomed really quick.