Weekend at Bernies...Must Read

[Dazed&Confused]

Minnesota Made has nothing to do with the change. Hockey in general has become very popular outside the usual boundries. The teams and players from LA or Florida even Texas are good real good. It all has changed and the more minnesota hockey fights it the further it will all get away from them.

[Neutron 14]

Community Hockey is killing itself by shutting out potential players such as Stillwater area has.

Convenient example, but a lame one. Its an abberation. Just look at the community based programs that are boycotting to support the private kid and coach.

Community based hockey does an excellent job of serving the masses. They cannot be soley focused on your little johnny or johnnyette. If your too good for these programs then leave. No one is stopping you. Community based programs cannot and should not cater to the elitists.

[finance_gal]

Community Hockey is killing itself by shutting out potential players such as Stillwater area has.

Convenient example, but a lame one. Its an abberation. Just look at the community based programs that are boycotting to support the private kid and coach.

Community based hockey does an excellent job of serving the masses. They cannot be soley focused on your little johnny or johnnyette. If your too good for these programs then leave. No one is stopping you. Community based programs cannot and should not cater to the elitists.

My kid is a private school kid, she's in 4th grade, and she can't play hockey because were in the middle of the stillwater situation..where does Minnesota Hockey tell her to play? Minnesota hockey's answer is if you can't play there you can't play anywhere. Minnesota Hockey has done a horible job of serving the masses in my area.

[bamhockey]

Neutron 14, what is your suggestion to try and turn around this apparent movement toward AAA/private leagues? Is it hopeless?

[hockeyhockey]

This sure is a hot topic for some.
MM has an agenda and that is to make money but for them to make money they need to produce a quality product, ie; better hockey players.
He has done that over and over. One of my sons improved more from one summer session with Bernie than he could have in a year with his association. Nothing against our association. Bernie has a good product. As some of you have said, if you don't like what is going on at MM don't send your kids and if you don't like what Minn Hockey is doing, or not doing, do something to change that. As for what started this post; if Bernie did what has been stated then he will bring himself and his program down. If he did not and this is just another rummor, MM will keep moving on with or without us.

[Neutron 14]

I sympathize with your situation, and I agree that Minnesota hockey needs to step in with as much weight as neccesary to ensure all kids are given equal opportunity. The surrounding community based programs back you 100%. District and State directors need to do the same.

The problem here rests with the Stillwater youth board, not community based hockey.

[skateguymn]

"One thing you need to keep in mind. Bernie has never even talked to the choice Mite kids. He had nothing to do with the tryouts. He has nothing to do with practices. (other than creating the practice drills) The kids aren't exposed to Bernie at all. " Boogeyman

Boogeyman, get serious. IF you think Bernie had nothing to do with tryouts you are cracked what you posted is untrue. BERNIE was absolutely involved in the tryouts. In fact each tryout the coaches agreed to let some kids go but if the kid had a name plate on his back that was the same as a deuce or a machine kid he was allowed (by Bernie) to come back to the next session. In the weeks between that kid would hit every MM camp in attempt to get good enough to make a team at the next tryout. In the end it really did not matter because a business decision was made to form 8 teams instead of 6. In Bernies, world hockey is a business and he has the right to make decisions accordingly.
Unfortunately, when he stepped into the MITE world he opened the doors to people that were not entirely educated on the ways of MM. Not weathered if you will. You have to be weathered or a little off balance to fully buy in to MM.
Seriously, there is skill development and then there is out right brain washing. The parents at MM are, generally speaking, people that cannot teach their kid the skills required to play hockey themselves. They go to MM to take their kid to the next level. In the process they get carried away with it., Bernie spews the sales pitch about 1st round draft picks and they all fall in line. A little leads to more and eventually families lives are over run with MM camps and tournaments. Some maintain balance but some go nuts (unfortunate for the kids). Some go back to association and take it for what it is, a community based program that is considered the greatest hockey organization in the country if not world. Every other state in the US would love to be in our shoes.
The question I have is when is enough, enough. How good do the kids have to be to actually satisfy some of these parents.
I have a son that went through MM. I am a coach. I do not have a MM reject. Just the facts here. So keep your stupid Whoa is me shots to yourselves.

[elliott70]

I think that is what is coming and people at Minnesota Hockey don't like it. They are afraid of the year round AAA model that is prevalent all over the US and Canada.

It does offer people from weaker associations a choice to have some standout kids play with other standout kids. However, this will further weaken those associations which is not good for the overall health of the Minnesota Hockey organization.

I think the big associations will not be significantly impacted since that will be the best hockey available to those kids for the winter months. There will be bubble kids whose parents felt they were cheated out of an "A" slot who will switch over though.

However, MM might do just fine renting ice to the associations in the winter time and may not need to create a squirt league.


Minnesota Hockey needs to address this openly and without malice. They need to find a way to integrate these programs rather than exclude them. It could get interesting.

Minnesota Hockey has a committee gathering information and evaluating how to proceed with AAA.

[tomASS]

Elliot is a guy that cares about the "WE" of the sport in this state and not the "me"

Thank you for all you do to continue to make Minnesota Hockey better

[Dazed&Confused]

Who is the We? I am not disagreeing but who is the We. Is it Me who wants the boy down the street to stay. Or is it We hoping he leaves so that another boy can step in. Or is it Me that wants to see my team win or is it We that keeps supporting him because they lost. We Me sounds like a bunch of garbage to Me. Or We need to take out the garbage.

[elliott70]

Minnesota Made Hockey and winter AAA is the wave of Minnesota future. Its all changing at first it was slow but soon there will be a mass exodus of athletes opting to leave the community based programs.

I do not believe there will be a mass exodus.
1- Not everyone can afford it.
2- Not everyone wants it.
3- Not everyone has access to it.
4- MM cannot handle all of it.
5- MM seems to be a Bernie McBain product, can it be franchised successfully?
6- Where will all the ice come from to handle the mass exodus (looking at numbers given 50 hrs in assn hockey and 100 hours in MM)?

And finally, this program is not proven yet, can we wait a couple of years and see if this is the wave of the future for mites.

USA Hockey has a government installed monopoly. MN Hockey is the affiliate of USA Hockey and as such controls what teams will do. If all programs in MN go to this structure then they have competition within MN, but not outside during the 'season'.

I believe a union of the two types can take place. But is it MN Hockey that will fight it or entrepreneurs that want no outside control of their operations?

It is sad that it is not a little kids game anymore, but how do I get my kid to the 'A' program, to varsity, to D1, to the NHL.

[elliott70]

Community Hockey is killing itself by shutting out potential players such as Stillwater area has.

Convenient example, but a lame one. Its an abberation. Just look at the community based programs that are boycotting to support the private kid and coach.

Community based hockey does an excellent job of serving the masses. They cannot be soley focused on your little johnny or johnnyette. If your too good for these programs then leave. No one is stopping you. Community based programs cannot and should not cater to the elitists.

Not true.
If you take it to the proper level an opportunity will be created. Call me or email me.
My kid is a private school kid, she's in 4th grade, and she can't play hockey because were in the middle of the stillwater situation..where does Minnesota Hockey tell her to play? Minnesota hockey's answer is if you can't play there you can't play anywhere. Minnesota Hockey has done a horible job of serving the masses in my area.

[tomASS]

Who is the We? I am not disagreeing but who is the We. Is it Me who wants the boy down the street to stay. Or is it We hoping he leaves so that another boy can step in. Or is it Me that wants to see my team win or is it We that keeps supporting him because they lost. We Me sounds like a bunch of garbage to Me. Or We need to take out the garbage.

I like it - very cute and creative but you know what is meant. See Elliott's post at 10:23 last statement.

Do what you think is best for your child but come back when they are 18 and then give us a better perspective of your life lesson.

[Neutron 14]

My kid is a private school kid, she's in 4th grade, and she can't play hockey because were in the middle of the stillwater situation..where does Minnesota Hockey tell her to play? Minnesota hockey's answer is if you can't play there you can't play anywhere. Minnesota Hockey has done a horible job of serving the masses in my area.

Not true.
If you take it to the proper level an opportunity will be created. Call me or email me.

Right on time Elliott, as usual!

[Dazed&Confused]

I m sorry. But my view point is very tainted. My little jonnie was not included in the local associations plans. Private School Child (I know we will go to hockey hell because We wanted an education for are children) So instead of whinning We went elswhere.
And I am happy to say He had fun and Became an exceptional player.

[finance_gal]

Convenient example, but a lame one. Its an abberation. Just look at the community based programs that are boycotting to support the private kid and coach.

Community based hockey does an excellent job of serving the masses. They cannot be soley focused on your little johnny or johnnyette. If your too good for these programs then leave. No one is stopping you. Community based programs cannot and should not cater to the elitists.

Not true.
If you take it to the proper level an opportunity will be created. Call me or email me.
My kid is a private school kid, she's in 4th grade, and she can't play hockey because were in the middle of the stillwater situation..where does Minnesota Hockey tell her to play? Minnesota hockey's answer is if you can't play there you can't play anywhere. Minnesota Hockey has done a horible job of serving the masses in my area.

The sad part is it's very true, this is the third kid that I've gone through this with in St Croix (stillwater) all our district director has to say is to get a waiver, St Croix says that they won't give a waiver. there excuse is " we like to bring our kids up through our system" How much higher up do I have to go? The vice president of Minnesota hockey? I left a message on his phone, he doesn't return phone calls when he hears it's a waiver issue. I'm not hostile about it anymore, we've accepted it just as a fact of where we live. But Minnesota Hockey won't be getting any of our support

[elliott70]

Who is the We? I am not disagreeing but who is the We. Is it Me who wants the boy down the street to stay. Or is it We hoping he leaves so that another boy can step in. Or is it Me that wants to see my team win or is it We that keeps supporting him because they lost. We Me sounds like a bunch of garbage to Me. Or We need to take out the garbage.

If you are referring to Me, Mark Elliott, elliott70; then so be it, have your opinion.
If you are referring to the fine leaders and volunteers in MN Hockey District 16 or to the other people around MN Hockey that I know very well, then I take exception to 'YOU' taking out the garbage.

The 'we' are people like Dick Johnson from Roseau that coached pee-wee hockey as a volunteer for 40 years. Or Fred Graves from Bemidji that has coached just about every level in Bemidji since about 1976 and is still at it. Or Harriet Worker from Thief River Falls that not only ran TRFAHA for several years but acted as the assistant DD for 6 years.
People, tons of them, that have done so much for others.
And one guy wants to make money at a kids game because he can promise them to make A squirts?
Like I said before, give 15 neighborhood kids and some outdoor ice.

[elliott70]

As I wrote, if you want, you can call me. Others do it frequently.

Not true.
If you take it to the proper level an opportunity will be created. Call me or email me.
My kid is a private school kid, she's in 4th grade, and she can't play hockey because were in the middle of the stillwater situation..where does Minnesota Hockey tell her to play? Minnesota hockey's answer is if you can't play there you can't play anywhere. Minnesota Hockey has done a horible job of serving the masses in my area.

The sad part is it's very true, this is the third kid that I've gone through this with in St Croix (stillwater) all our district director has to say is to get a waiver, St Croix says that they won't give a waiver. there excuse is " we like to bring our kids up through our system" How much higher up do I have to go? The vice president of Minnesota hockey? I left a message on his phone, he doesn't return phone calls when he hears it's a waiver issue. I'm not hostile about it anymore, we've accepted it just as a fact of where we live. But Minnesota Hockey won't be getting any of our support

[Can't Never Tried]

Minnesota Made Hockey and winter AAA is the wave of Minnesota future. Its all changing at first it was slow but soon there will be a mass exodus of athletes opting to leave the community based programs.

I do not believe here will be a mass exodus.
1- Not everyone can afford it.
2- Not everyone wants it.
3- Not everyone has access to it.
4- MM cannot handle all of it.
5- MM seems to be a Bernie McBain product, can it be franchised successfully?
6- Where will all the ice come from to handle the mass exodus (looking at numbers given 50 hrs in assn hockey and 100 hours in MM)?

And finally, this program is not proven yet, can we wait a couple of years and see if this is the wave of the future for mites.

USA Hockey has a government installed monopoly. MN Hockey is the affiliate of USA Hockey and as such controls what teams will do. If all programs in MN go to this structure then they have competition within MN, but not outside during the 'season'.

I believe a union of the two types can take place. But is it MN Hockey that will fight it or entrepreneurs that want no outside control of their operations?

It is sad that it is not a little kids game anymore, but how do I get my kid to the 'A' program, to varsity, to D1, to the NHL.

I agree elliott,
Are we to the point of Russian Gymnastics with this? where we pluck our young children away from childhood, only to the rigors and discipline aiming for a dream that the child can't truly comprehend yet?
If you think they can, you probably don't have grown up children yet.

Really, does a mite need 100 hrs of hockey? or does mom or dad?
How many hours will he need as a bantam 300+?
Also,
If it was such a great idea, and had no adverse effects I believe that MN Hockey would be doing it as well.
I would like to know how many sports psychologists are involved in USA hockey, that are advising MN Hockey on setting guidelines? My guess is more then over at MM.
The continued growth in youth hockey, for boy's and girl's, must say that something is being done right.

Lastly is there a girls program there at MM?

[Dazed&Confused]

Absolutely Not. I am trying to state my opinion that this is not abou Bernie McBaine or any other individual. Nor the hard work and dedication of countless volunteers. This is about a little boy or girl that wanted to play hockey. My Opinion is this The Hockey as we all know it and love is in trouble and it will get worse and fast. Bernie and his machine was not the start but another clue to what is happening. Maybe this hasnt reared its ugly head in the Great North but in the Metro its out of hand. IIf I didnt care I wouldnt share my thoughts. I do have dreams of watching my grandchildren do as I did and my children.

[tomASS]

I m sorry. But my view point is very tainted. My little jonnie was not included in the local associations plans. Private School Child (I know we will go to hockey hell because We wanted an education for are children) So instead of whinning We went elswhere.
And I am happy to say He had fun and Became an exceptional player.

And I will conceed then some associations do have biases about private school kids and training them which I do not think is right especially since most private school kids are there for educational purposes.

Those type of biases are the things many associations need to address and take a stance against. A kid should not be penalized within a youth community hockey program based on their school status.

[bamhockey]

The sad truth is there is no such thing as a little kid's game anymore (football, hockey, baseball, basketball, soccer, etc. . . ) unless they organize it themselves and they even up the teams in the backyard as friends. The reality is that this situation will only continue to evolve in one way or another. There seems to be a never ending evaluation for the kids. This is not created by the parents, but it is created by the summer leagues. The AAA teams, MASH teams and other leagues are not looking for the "average" player--they are looking for the best player that fits their team. Many of the coaches (not all) who provide their time at the association level also are involved with summer league teams. The same is true of the coaches at MM. The coaches are constantly evaluating the children even at the association level. The kids were being "picked" by their coaches to play on their summer league teams during the mite season last year. The kids were very aware of this process because once a kid was "picked" he would tell the kids. Most of the coaches who have a summer AAA team already know the make up of most of their team even though there are open tryouts. Most AAA are looking for teams from "99' on down. Some 2000 kids also are evaluated to make the 1999 teams. If your kid wants to make a team, then he has to do something to stand out from the other kids. The questions is then, what does the kid have to do to stand out--sign up for clinics, sign up for MM, or play more hockey in the back yard. I'm all for more back yard hockey because I agree with previous posters, this is when I see my son having the most fun. He is outside, playing with his neighbors and friends, and doing his own thing. Problem is, you don't get noticed in your backyard if little Johnny wants to play AAA hockey. While i agree that some parents push their kids too much, there are many kids that know all about AAA hockey and want to play. By the time they are second year mites they have over a year of exposure to the selection process. Ours is a large association so maybe this doesn't go on everywhere.

the evaluation procees for the kids should not begin this young, but it does. But the pressure to perform comes from more than just the parents. This is not intended to be a knock on association hockey or on MM. It seems to be more of a function of human nature--"if everyone else is doing it it must be good and I don't want to be left behind" mentality. Like a bunch of lemmings running over the side of a cliff.

[theref]

It is sad that it is not a little kids game anymore, but how do I get my kid to the 'A' program, to varsity, to D1, to the NHL.

This is exactly the perfect statement about all of this. Associations for hockey were formed so that teams could be organized to play each other and other towns for fun. Now we have people talking about D1 and the NHL at the mite level. Get real. Also anybody, and I mean anybody, that knocks volunteers better just step right out of this conversation. It's pretty hard to knock someone that is trying to teach kids for free.

[Neutron 14]

Like a bunch of lemmings running over the side of a cliff.

Not that I disagree with the rest of your post, but this is perfect...

Then the lemmings come on here and say my kid this and my kid that...

The kid is 6 years old for chriss sakes....

[tomASS]

Also anybody, and I mean anybody, that knocks volunteers better just step right out of this conversation. It's pretty hard to knock someone that is trying to teach kids for free.

theref- absolutely agree! There are some who love to give lip service by saying how much they appreciate all those volunteers and what they do for the association (and it makes them look so honorable) but then give the compliment a backhand by saying, in essence, "that you just aren't good enough to help my kid and I would much rather just spend the money elsewhere because it is a better deal, I don't have to lift a finger to help and correct the things I believe are wrong with what you are doing, and I believe they train my kids better. So thank you. You are doing a great job and I appreciate it but you are not qualified or good enough to help my kid"

There is a letter, to that affect, circulated last year to many area parents that our association has. It basically goes on to bash those that volunteer for the job they do in training the kids but thank them for their time and express appreciation. From my understanding the hockey board invited this individual in so they could discuss possible improvements.......guess what? That person was a no show.

AND THIS IS AT THE MITE LEVEL!!!!