Weekend at Bernies...Must Read

[Northland]

Last time I checked ... we still live in a DEMOCRACY.


Everyone is worried about what everyone else is doing. Do what you think is best for you and yours. Then, you can always change your mind. What a great country we live in.


.

[theref]

Also anybody, and I mean anybody, that knocks volunteers better just step right out of this conversation. It's pretty hard to knock someone that is trying to teach kids for free.

theref- absolutely agree! There are some who love to give lip service by saying how much they appreciate all those volunteers and what they do for the association (and it makes them look so honorable) but then give the compliment a backhand by saying, in essence, "that you just aren't good enough to help my kid and I would much rather just spend the money elsewhere because it is a better deal, I don't have to lift a finger to help and correct the things I believe are wrong with what you are doing, and I believe they train my kids better. So thank you. You are doing a great job and I appreciate it but you are not qualified or good enough to help my kid"

There is a letter, to that affect, circulated last year to many area parents that our association has. It basically goes on to bash those that volunteer for the job they do in training the kids but thank them for their time and express appreciation. From my understanding the hockey board invited this individual in so they could discuss possible improvements.......guess what? That person was a no show.

AND THIS IS AT THE MITE LEVEL!!!!

Just imagine if all of those volunteers just quit. Then they'd be whining about who was going to show their kid how to skate, since they obviously don't have to do it. I like to wonder what would happen if all the volunteers and referees just quite since people don't feel we do a good enough job. Wonder if they'd step in to fill our spots?

[Neutron 14]

Last time I checked ... we still live in a DEMOCRACY.
Everyone is worried about what everyone else is doing. Do what you think is best for you and yours. Then, you can always change your mind. What a great country we live in.

Well I've got good news for you. Included in this democracy is freedom of speech. Many of us believe (obvious not all) that when you come to an opinion board, its ok to offer your opinion.

And many of us believe that when you remain silent you become complicit.

Especially when it comes to officiating!

[Northland]

Last time I checked ... we still live in a DEMOCRACY.
Everyone is worried about what everyone else is doing. Do what you think is best for you and yours. Then, you can always change your mind. What a great country we live in.

Well I've got good news for you. Included in this democracy is freedom of speech. Many of us believe (obvious not all) that when you come to an opinion board, its ok to offer your opinion.

And many of us believe that when you remain silent you become complicit.

Especially when it comes to officiating!

You are so right. And...I thoroughly enjoy reading all of this. Sometime I might even 'stir the pot'

If there was a solution to all of the madness involved in orgainized sports, most of us would lose our adrenalin rush.


.

[Northland]

Also anybody, and I mean anybody, that knocks volunteers better just step right out of this conversation. It's pretty hard to knock someone that is trying to teach kids for free.

theref- absolutely agree! There are some who love to give lip service by saying how much they appreciate all those volunteers and what they do for the association (and it makes them look so honorable) but then give the compliment a backhand by saying, in essence, "that you just aren't good enough to help my kid and I would much rather just spend the money elsewhere because it is a better deal, I don't have to lift a finger to help and correct the things I believe are wrong with what you are doing, and I believe they train my kids better. So thank you. You are doing a great job and I appreciate it but you are not qualified or good enough to help my kid"

There is a letter, to that affect, circulated last year to many area parents that our association has. It basically goes on to bash those that volunteer for the job they do in training the kids but thank them for their time and express appreciation. From my understanding the hockey board invited this individual in so they could discuss possible improvements.......guess what? That person was a no show.

AND THIS IS AT THE MITE LEVEL!!!!

Just imagine if all of those volunteers just quit. Then they'd be whining about who was going to show their kid how to skate, since they obviously don't have to do it. I like to wonder what would happen if all the volunteers and referees just quite since people don't feel we do a good enough job. Wonder if they'd step in to fill our spots?

You can't criticize the refs until they get paid


.

[greybeard58]

For those who strongly believe in AAA or as it is actually called Tier I and just to let you know most Mn Hockey teams are registered at the Tier II level. You should go to the USA Hockey web site go to annual congress and download the Affiliate Presidents report. The first couple of pages deal a little bit with mites in Vermont, a couple dealing with law suits and in the middle of page 8 starts a few Presidents talking about the Tier I teams recruiting not only out of state players but out of country players. The message I have heard from USA Hockey representatives is that the Affiliates that have allowed this to go on and now it has gotten out of control and are trying to get back in control and now wish they had used the Mn Hockey way of community based teams. I would copy and paste it here,but it is 3 pages long, the overall report is 13 pages.

For those that have issues with your local association, file a written grievance according to Article 6 in the Mn Hockey Handbook and starts on page 19.
If you want to change get involved get on the local or District board and work for improvement.

As for me I have been involved for about 30 years and I stayed involved long after my kids have graduated from High school and Hockey. One reason is my love for the GAME and second is that I feel I owe the volunteers that were working for the good of all players when my children were playing to try and keep up their work even though they are no longer with us. When I go to watch a game I get to see the game as few parents do. I see the whole game, not just a player or team. It is still a great game.

[northwoods oldtimer]

GreyBeard58,
Thanks for posting the best message on this board in a very long time. Hats off to you sir for your great volunteer time, you have more than proven yourself to your community and the local program that has your dedicated service is very fortunate indeed. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story it is insightful and refreshing to hear from folks who are in the trenches. Glad I read your post sir!

[tomASS]

As for me I have been involved for about 30 years and I stayed involved long after my kids have graduated from High school and Hockey. One reason is my love for the GAME and second is that I feel I owe the volunteers that were working for the good of all players when my children were playing to try and keep up their work even though they are no longer with us. When I go to watch a game I get to see the game as few parents do. I see the whole game, not just a player or team. It is still a great game.

Thank you for a great post and for the years giving back to the game.
I have done the same in my sport of choice, it can be very gratifying for those that really do appreciate it especially the kids. However, it is amazing how there are more and more parents that treat volunteers as their servants with the sense of expectancy.

I say pay it forward - well done and thank you for setting the right example greybeard58

[ironrangehockey55]

I must admidt that i have enjoyed all of the posts concerning this topic. thankfully we don't have this same probelm yet with outside programs. does anyone know how any of the associations have reacted to the kids choosing the mm program instead of their own association? i see opinions stating that the parents need to work with their associations (which they should), but does anyone know if the associations have done anything to address this issue? i don't want it to be an issue here. thanks for any insight

[watchdog]

isnt mm during the summer? so it would not interfer with association hockey.

[elliott70]

isnt mm during the summer? so it would not interfer with association hockey.

There is a new mite program this year running in 'season'.

[BoogeyMan]

Also anybody, and I mean anybody, that knocks volunteers better just step right out of this conversation. It's pretty hard to knock someone that is trying to teach kids for free.

theref- absolutely agree! There are some who love to give lip service by saying how much they appreciate all those volunteers and what they do for the association (and it makes them look so honorable) but then give the compliment a backhand by saying, in essence, "that you just aren't good enough to help my kid and I would much rather just spend the money elsewhere because it is a better deal, I don't have to lift a finger to help and correct the things I believe are wrong with what you are doing, and I believe they train my kids better. So thank you. You are doing a great job and I appreciate it but you are not qualified or good enough to help my kid"

There is a letter, to that affect, circulated last year to many area parents that our association has. It basically goes on to bash those that volunteer for the job they do in training the kids but thank them for their time and express appreciation. From my understanding the hockey board invited this individual in so they could discuss possible improvements.......guess what? That person was a no show.

AND THIS IS AT THE MITE LEVEL!!!!

tASS, Lets keep everything in perspective. Are you telling me as a parent. My only choice is to have my son play in my local association? Even though I found a place to develop my son for $8.95 for 1.5 hours of ice compared to the $12.31 I would have to pay in my local association?

I have no other option?

Keep in mind. I'm bringing my son back to my local association next year. I'm hoping that he'll be a stronger skater. I don't have any plans on my son playing any higher than Squirt "B's"

Lets not forget. There are eleven other parents from my association that made the same move.
I'll be the first to say that my son is a decent Mite player. I don't consider him an elite player or advanced player. I agree that many parents take pride to say their son made the machine or deuce. To be honest. I'm happy for those parents. Who am I to judge anyone? Who are you to judge anyone?

Shouldn't we all do what's best for our families? Starting next year the kids will break into teams based on talent. I'll be fine with that.

Good luck!

[Can't Never Tried]

Also anybody, and I mean anybody, that knocks volunteers better just step right out of this conversation. It's pretty hard to knock someone that is trying to teach kids for free.

theref- absolutely agree! There are some who love to give lip service by saying how much they appreciate all those volunteers and what they do for the association (and it makes them look so honorable) but then give the compliment a backhand by saying, in essence, "that you just aren't good enough to help my kid and I would much rather just spend the money elsewhere because it is a better deal, I don't have to lift a finger to help and correct the things I believe are wrong with what you are doing, and I believe they train my kids better. So thank you. You are doing a great job and I appreciate it but you are not qualified or good enough to help my kid"

There is a letter, to that affect, circulated last year to many area parents that our association has. It basically goes on to bash those that volunteer for the job they do in training the kids but thank them for their time and express appreciation. From my understanding the hockey board invited this individual in so they could discuss possible improvements.......guess what? That person was a no show.

AND THIS IS AT THE MITE LEVEL!!!!

tASS, Lets keep everything in perspective. Are you telling me as a parent. My only choice is to have my son play in my local association? Even though I found a place to develop my son for $8.95 for 1.5 hours of ice compared to the $12.31 I would have to pay in my local association?

I have no other option?

Keep in mind. I'm bringing my son back to my local association next year. I'm hoping that he'll be a stronger skater. I don't have any plans on my son playing any higher than Squirt "B's"

Lets not forget. There are eleven other parents from my association that made the same move.
I'll be the first to say that my son is a decent Mite player. I don't consider him an elite player or advanced player. I agree that many parents take pride to say their son made the machine or deuce. To be honest. I'm happy for those parents. Who am I to judge anyone? Who are you to judge anyone?

Shouldn't we all do what's best for our families? Starting next year the kids will break into teams based on talent. I'll be fine with that.

Good luck!

@ $3.00 a gallon for gas how far is the round trip ? from Chaska right?

[tomASS]

@ $3.00 a gallon for gas how far is the round trip ? from Chaska right?

Chanhassen. It's way way way way closer

I wonder why he responded to that post?? I don't think I mentioned his name did I ?? Of course the point was not about money.

[greybeard58]

Maybe MM could get together with the associations and then schedule skating clinics at different times of the week to avoid conflicts with the association. He could then open up to all players the skilled and the beginning skater. in the long run business could expand.

[breakout]

theref- absolutely agree! There are some who love to give lip service by saying how much they appreciate all those volunteers and what they do for the association (and it makes them look so honorable) but then give the compliment a backhand by saying, in essence, "that you just aren't good enough to help my kid and I would much rather just spend the money elsewhere because it is a better deal, I don't have to lift a finger to help and correct the things I believe are wrong with what you are doing, and I believe they train my kids better. So thank you. You are doing a great job and I appreciate it but you are not qualified or good enough to help my kid"

There is a letter, to that affect, circulated last year to many area parents that our association has. It basically goes on to bash those that volunteer for the job they do in training the kids but thank them for their time and express appreciation. From my understanding the hockey board invited this individual in so they could discuss possible improvements.......guess what? That person was a no show.

AND THIS IS AT THE MITE LEVEL!!!!

tASS, Lets keep everything in perspective. Are you telling me as a parent. My only choice is to have my son play in my local association? Even though I found a place to develop my son for $8.95 for 1.5 hours of ice compared to the $12.31 I would have to pay in my local association?

I have no other option?

Keep in mind. I'm bringing my son back to my local association next year. I'm hoping that he'll be a stronger skater. I don't have any plans on my son playing any higher than Squirt "B's"

Lets not forget. There are eleven other parents from my association that made the same move.
I'll be the first to say that my son is a decent Mite player. I don't consider him an elite player or advanced player. I agree that many parents take pride to say their son made the machine or deuce. To be honest. I'm happy for those parents. Who am I to judge anyone? Who are you to judge anyone?

Shouldn't we all do what's best for our families? Starting next year the kids will break into teams based on talent. I'll be fine with that.

Good luck!

@ $3.00 a gallon for gas how far is the round trip ? from Chaska right?

You know that won't make sense to him..........don't you????

[goldy313]

I said it last year and I'll say it again, community based hockey is dying. High schools are losing thier best players to perceived better opportunities, and AAA is/will do the same to the youth ranks. The top programs will not be immune. After all, its about ME not WE.

I think you're right to an extent but in reality I think hockey is dying. The more things cost the less athletic kids end up playing (income has no relation to athletic talent but it does limit the quantity of of the talent pool thereby ultimatly lessening the talent), to make up for this more money is spent at places like MM to make the kids better, but that doesn't solve the problem of less players equating to less talent. There still are and always will be supremely talented individuals, but the quality of hockey is down from 20 years ago at the high school level, at the Junior level and at the College level. The pros can keep up the quality only because it's truly an International game. You can throw all the money you want at a kid to make him better but by and large athletic talent is genetic coupled with hard work. The cost of hockey filters out too many kids, MM, AAA, even USA hockey does this and is slowly killing community based hockey.

I don't think there is a solution to this, the genie is out of the bottle. Technolgy allowing year around ice, specialization, etc. are here to stay

[BoogeyMan]

theref- absolutely agree! There are some who love to give lip service by saying how much they appreciate all those volunteers and what they do for the association (and it makes them look so honorable) but then give the compliment a backhand by saying, in essence, "that you just aren't good enough to help my kid and I would much rather just spend the money elsewhere because it is a better deal, I don't have to lift a finger to help and correct the things I believe are wrong with what you are doing, and I believe they train my kids better. So thank you. You are doing a great job and I appreciate it but you are not qualified or good enough to help my kid"

There is a letter, to that affect, circulated last year to many area parents that our association has. It basically goes on to bash those that volunteer for the job they do in training the kids but thank them for their time and express appreciation. From my understanding the hockey board invited this individual in so they could discuss possible improvements.......guess what? That person was a no show.

AND THIS IS AT THE MITE LEVEL!!!!

tASS, Lets keep everything in perspective. Are you telling me as a parent. My only choice is to have my son play in my local association? Even though I found a place to develop my son for $8.95 for 1.5 hours of ice compared to the $12.31 I would have to pay in my local association?

I have no other option?

Keep in mind. I'm bringing my son back to my local association next year. I'm hoping that he'll be a stronger skater. I don't have any plans on my son playing any higher than Squirt "B's"

Lets not forget. There are eleven other parents from my association that made the same move.
I'll be the first to say that my son is a decent Mite player. I don't consider him an elite player or advanced player. I agree that many parents take pride to say their son made the machine or deuce. To be honest. I'm happy for those parents. Who am I to judge anyone? Who are you to judge anyone?

Shouldn't we all do what's best for our families? Starting next year the kids will break into teams based on talent. I'll be fine with that.

Good luck!

@ $3.00 a gallon for gas how far is the round trip ? from Chaska right?

CNT- Actually Minnesota made isn't too much farther than my local rink. Gas money isn't an issue.

[blondegirlsdad]

Does MM have a Girls program?

[breakout]

Maybe MM could get together with the associations and then schedule skating clinics at different times of the week to avoid conflicts with the association. He could then open up to all players the skilled and the beginning skater. in the long run business could expand.

That's a solid idea. The Karn's, the Ness's do similar things when contracted by particular teams in different associations. For example, the Karns may go work with a Pee Wee team in the cities somewhere. However, they are typically more skating focused. Bernie's scope could add a lot of value to associations looking for something extra.

[TheOctopus]

theref- absolutely agree! There are some who love to give lip service by saying how much they appreciate all those volunteers and what they do for the association (and it makes them look so honorable) but then give the compliment a backhand by saying, in essence, "that you just aren't good enough to help my kid and I would much rather just spend the money elsewhere because it is a better deal, I don't have to lift a finger to help and correct the things I believe are wrong with what you are doing, and I believe they train my kids better. So thank you. You are doing a great job and I appreciate it but you are not qualified or good enough to help my kid"

There is a letter, to that affect, circulated last year to many area parents that our association has. It basically goes on to bash those that volunteer for the job they do in training the kids but thank them for their time and express appreciation. From my understanding the hockey board invited this individual in so they could discuss possible improvements.......guess what? That person was a no show.

AND THIS IS AT THE MITE LEVEL!!!!

tASS, Lets keep everything in perspective. Are you telling me as a parent. My only choice is to have my son play in my local association? Even though I found a place to develop my son for $8.95 for 1.5 hours of ice compared to the $12.31 I would have to pay in my local association?

I have no other option?

Keep in mind. I'm bringing my son back to my local association next year. I'm hoping that he'll be a stronger skater. I don't have any plans on my son playing any higher than Squirt "B's"

Lets not forget. There are eleven other parents from my association that made the same move.
I'll be the first to say that my son is a decent Mite player. I don't consider him an elite player or advanced player. I agree that many parents take pride to say their son made the machine or deuce. To be honest. I'm happy for those parents. Who am I to judge anyone? Who are you to judge anyone?

Shouldn't we all do what's best for our families? Starting next year the kids will break into teams based on talent. I'll be fine with that.

Good luck!

@ $3.00 a gallon for gas how far is the round trip ? from Chaska right?

Now we are reaching....

[elliott70]

I said it last year and I'll say it again, community based hockey is dying. High schools are losing thier best players to perceived better opportunities, and AAA is/will do the same to the youth ranks. The top programs will not be immune. After all, its about ME not WE.

I think you're right to an extent but in reality I think hockey is dying. The more things cost the less athletic kids end up playing (income has no relation to athletic talent but it does limit the quantity of of the talent pool thereby ultimatly lessening the talent), to

In my opinion, #1 item USAHockey/MNHockey/local associations need to face.
How to attract kids and their parents to the game!!!

[Soulforged]

Last time I checked ... we still live in a DEMOCRACY.


Everyone is worried about what everyone else is doing. Do what you think is best for you and yours. Then, you can always change your mind. What a great country we live in.


.

You are right we do live in a democracy, and like in many democracy's the vast majority of the public are cluless when it comes to politics. Thus the country is guided by a select few who are usually out for their own interests. Such is the case with hockey overall. The elite players (in their parents mind at minimum) are dictating the direction of many associations and organizations as a whole. Very few kids are elite players, but those who seek to benefit finanically or have their reputation boosted have sold parents with large pocketbooks on the idea that money = potential to excel. The fact is that many of the potential best hockey players may never get the chance because their parents never let them play in the first place. They view hockey as an elitest sport that tries it's hardest to cater to the best, and not the majority.

Don't get me wrong I support separating kids by ability in order for them to have fun and develop as players, but if we limit opportunity based access to resources some, and I mean some, of the true elite players will never truly get their chance.

[bamhockey]

Soul, I agree with your post except for one premise. The idea that people who sign their kids up for other programs do so mindlessly. It seems that if you don't agree with the posters who oppose programs like mm, the parents are characterized as mindless and over the top. I am not saying that this is what you intended. my child has attended mm clinic's and i have never thought "money = potential to excel." While I think there are parents who do think that, all parents do not fit into that category. It is unfortunate that hockey is so expensive. Otherwise, I think many more parents would be willing to at least allow their child to try it.

[Soulforged]

Soul, I agree with your post except for one premise. The idea that people who sign their kids up for other programs do so mindlessly. It seems that if you don't agree with the posters who oppose programs like mm, the parents are characterized as mindless and over the top. I am not saying that this is what you intended. my child has attended mm clinic's and i have never thought "money = potential to excel." While I think there are parents who do think that, all parents do not fit into that category. It is unfortunate that hockey is so expensive. Otherwise, I think many more parents would be willing to at least allow their child to try it.

I think Minnesota Made teams are a great opition, and Bernie is good at what he does. Those parents who kids participate know exactly what they are getting into. However I question if they really believe that all things being equal that their son or daughter couldn't be replaced by someone who may not chose that opition or have the financial resources available to them.