Edina Tryouts... Here's What's Wrong With Youth Hockey

[spin-o-rama]

The only thing I want clarification on spinorama is you don't truly believe the volunteers that are already giving up a lot to make the a community association work should also become a servant of the Welcome Wagon to make sure everyone feels welcome? Or maybe I am overtstating what you meant.

I agree with CNT, the best way to really feel welcome is to extend your hand and say what can I do to help? You will be made to feel welcomed really quick.

Achieving good Public Relations and Customer Satisfaction should be a part of the job description for any job whether paid or volunteer. When market share is down (kids leaving for other pursuits whether MM, other sports, or anything else) a re-emphasis on PR and CS is wise. That is good business sense.

There are some on this board who think rougher tactics should be employed and have hinted that associations may be thinking similarly. I do not agree with that strategy.

My association originally did not feel a threat from MM and is now monitoring the situation and is taking a ‘wait and see’ approach to MM. What approach is your association taking to MM? All I know about other associations is the statement I reported from D6 to their associations and the scuttlebutt on this forum.

Please do not be offended that I think volunteers should be welcoming and friendly to those they are there to serve. It is commonsense. I’m not saying they don’t, but a reminder and re-emphasis in times of market instability are a good thing.

[tomASS]

Achieving good Public Relations and Customer Satisfaction should be a part of the job description for any job whether paid or volunteer. When market share is down (kids leaving for other pursuits whether MM, other sports, or anything else) a re-emphasis on PR and CS is wise. That is good business sense.

There are some on this board who think rougher tactics should be employed and have hinted that associations may be thinking similarly. I do not agree with that strategy.

All I know about other associations is the statement I reported from D6 to their associations and the scuttlebutt on this forum.

Please do not be offended that I think volunteers should be welcoming and friendly to those they are there to serve. It is commonsense. I’m not saying they don’t, but a reminder and re-emphasis in times of market instability are a good thing.

Welcoming and friendly- yes; providing the best hockey they can-yes but remember they are not your servants to serve your every whim at anytime you think they should.

It has to be a partnership. Listening to new ideas and trying to improve the hockey product is a cornerstone, but that takes a dialogue and a partnership of working together.

If they are paid employees that brings a different twist of service expectations.

There is a huge difference between non-profit, volunteer organizations and a LLC business which MM is.

The "rougher tactics", I would be very surprised by, but I believe if D6 put out any statements of proper conduct it was initiated as a preventative measure based on a letter that was sent out across the district by a disgruntle parent in Chan/Chaska regarding the Mini Mite programs. I think D6 was being proactive.

I feel when an organization invites (a couple of times) a community hockey member in to discuss and created dialogue for improving the system this individual publicly attacked in a letter, it is demonstrating great customer service. When that same person chooses not to engage in the dialogue, what is the association suppose to do? Offer to take that individual to dinner and buy him a few drinks to make him feel better about how he handled the situation?

Any animosity is not due to parents taking their kids to MM, it is due to the way some of these individuals handled themselves in doing so.

Where is Henry Kissinger when you need him?

[spin-o-rama]

Tom-
I think we are in pretty good agreement about welcoming and friendly being good policies. And I also agree that good service doesn't mean being subservient to parent whims.

As for the D6 statement. Here is the link for the D6 minutes on MM. It basically says don't discriminate against someone for choosing MM. It also says that playing MM won't give you bonus tryout points.

http://district6hockey.net/MIN/20077.doc

As for the rougher tactics remarks - I would have to look up the posts made on that. I think some were in the original thread about the choice league. I am glad to hear you haven't heard such talk.

[hockeyknight]

I have a question that's not on the exact same subject, but would appreciate comments.
Let's say you have a squirt or PW that could/would play at the A level, but for some reason one year (financial, personal, family, parent jobs, etc) may need to play in B's. Would this be severely damaging to their growth as a hockey player in the future?
Let's also add some assumptions that they would be coached pretty well in B's and would attend a reasonable amount of camps/schools in the off season, where they would compete at a higher level.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.....

[jancze5]

Spin-o-

In reading what you linked from the D-6 meeting, it looks like the kids that play MM may also play D-6 mites...or at least, that's how I'm reading it. Interesting, does the Mite league at MM require USA/MN hockey membership?

[greybeard58]

From the reading of the minutes it would seem MM is not an affiliate of USA/MN Hockey. Mn Hockey has rules against a youth player being on 2 rosters during the season.
A question maybe should be asked, Does MM do back round checks on their coaches as most organizations involved with the youth do? And if the answer is no, why not?

[Can't Never Tried]

I have a question that's not on the exact same subject, but would appreciate comments.
Let's say you have a squirt or PW that could/would play at the A level, but for some reason one year (financial, personal, family, parent jobs, etc) may need to play in B's. Would this be severely damaging to their growth as a hockey player in the future?
Let's also add some assumptions that they would be coached pretty well in B's and would attend a reasonable amount of camps/schools in the off season, where they would compete at a higher level.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.....

I'm not sure where the big difference is, that if he would/could play A, that he wouldn't do it, there isn't that great a difference in cost or time commitment, so this is kind of a confusing question

IMO Playing a year at the B level in SQ or PW is not going to do any severe damage to a future player, if they really want to play at the higher levels later they still can.
The only downside is if he lowers his efforts to those around him, bad habits are hard to break.

[O-townClown]

I have a question that's not on the exact same subject, but would appreciate comments.
Let's say you have a squirt or PW that could/would play at the A level, but for some reason one year (financial, personal, family, parent jobs, etc) may need to play in B's. Would this be severely damaging to their growth as a hockey player in the future?
Let's also add some assumptions that they would be coached pretty well in B's and would attend a reasonable amount of camps/schools in the off season, where they would compete at a higher level.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.....

Assuming the kid doesn't lose the passion for the game there will be no damage at all.

A kid from Edina moved to Tennessee and was one of their good players on the 1988 State Champs when he returned after being gone for a few years. More extreme, a 15-year-old boy was relocated to Poway, California from Chicago in 1977. Yes, he STILL plays in the NHL today. Some kids learn as much from being a standout at one level as they would from being on the higher team.

There is no way this scenario you've described could hinder the progress of a young kid.

[spin-o-rama]

Spin-o-

In reading what you linked from the D-6 meeting, it looks like the kids that play MM may also play D-6 mites...or at least, that's how I'm reading it. Interesting, does the Mite league at MM require USA/MN hockey membership?

MM is independent of USA/MN Hockey so a kid can play both association and MM. I am told that there are kids in my association doing both.

Also, because of this they can't play any USA/MN H registered teams. This basically eliminates everyone except inhouse games and Edina mites. I have not heard of scheduling games outside of their league.

It also appears that games are secondary to practices. The practice to game ratio is greater than 3:1. My association does not achieve this. Does anyone have an association that does? It is interesting because 3:1 is the ratio USA/MN H want for the mite level.

If they start a squirt league it also would have to be inhouse unless they can get an affiliate agreement.

[spin-o-rama]

More extreme, a 15-year-old boy was relocated to Poway, California from Chicago in 1977. Yes, he STILL plays in the NHL today.

O-townClown,

I was going to call bs on this and then I remembered - It's Grandpa Chelios!

Gordie Howe played in the NHL at 52. Can Chelios hang on?

[elliott70]

Spin-o-

In reading what you linked from the D-6 meeting, it looks like the kids that play MM may also play D-6 mites...or at least, that's how I'm reading it. Interesting, does the Mite league at MM require USA/MN hockey membership?

MM is independent of USA/MN Hockey so a kid can play both association and MM. I am told that there are kids in my association doing both.

Also, because of this they can't play any USA/MN H registered teams. This basically eliminates everyone except inhouse games and Edina mites. I have not heard of scheduling games outside of their league.

It also appears that games are secondary to practices. The practice to game ratio is greater than 3:1. My association does not achieve this. Does anyone have an association that does? It is interesting because 3:1 is the ratio USA/MN H want for the mite level.

If they start a squirt league it also would have to be inhouse unless they can get an affiliate agreement.

All D16 mite teams have a minimum of 3 to 1.
Probably 4 to 1.
I believe most of the squirts did last year, but cannot remember for sure.

[hockeyknight]

Thanks to those of you who responded to this. However, in the question of the difference in time and financial commitment, it actually can be significant in the organization I'm speaking of. The difference in the number of tournaments and traveling games is significant. However, from the amount of times they touch the ice in a given week, it's not a significant difference, maybe one more game or practice per week.
Regardless, all the assumptions aside, it would sound as though if properly coached and continued a good work ethic, they would contnue to grow adequately as a hockey player....

[Gopher Blog]

Looks like this story with the raving Edina parent made the Star Tribune gossip column.

Link:

Temper, temper!

[O-townClown]

Looks like this story with the raving Edina parent made the Star Tribune gossip column.

Link:

Temper, temper!

CJ is the second biggest waste of newspaper space behind Hartman. Yup, I think the classifieds have more value than her crap.

Kudos for those contacted to duck her questions. Readers don't care about this and their lack of cooperation ensured that she'd have to run a non-story. Seriously, what is this effort by her except for speculation and conjecture?

[BoogeyMan]

Boogeyman wrote;
Since there are 12 other kids skating from our association at MM. It was a no brainer. More bang for the buck.

There were "12 others" at Jonestown as well. Calm down, it was a joke.

Is there any potential that these kids will be treated differently when they come back to the association? We have heard stories all over this forum about players who were treated a certain way because of where they came from, or where they are going. Stories of this have been told at the squirt level, so is it absurd to think that it could happen to these youngsters? As a MM parent, do any of you have concerns about this?

Jonestown? I suppose you were on of the few that survived?

Why would any association black ball a player signing up to play in their association? Even though my local association is non-profit. They like to see the $$$ come rolling in. Not to mention the kids will be better skaters.

Let me point out. I'm not going to Minnesota made so my son can make Squirts A's. I have him penciled in to play squirt B's for two years. Why do people think that all kids are going to MM just to get pushed into making the highest level someday?

Like I said many time in earlier posts. I simply want to give my son the tools he needs to play sports and more importantly education or the arts.

If someone on this site actually can tell me my son will receive the same amount of training than our local association is wrong. Flat out wrong!

My son is not getting pushed into going to Minnesota made. Or is he getting brain washed on being the best player. If another program has better development. Why not?

Greybeard- I don't know one kid that skates in the Minnesota made program that plays hockey in both Minnesota made and their local association. Do all the checking you want.
You'll find out that Minnesota made is a seperate association not affiliated with Minnesota/USA hockey. Why does this concern you? Is your son a Mites aged player? Or are you trying to push buttons? You do have the right to believe what you want.

tASS- I agree with you. I also applaud the volunteers in any youth association. I also used to volunteer. It takes a lot of time and committment. Thanks to you for volunteering to help out to evaluate the squirts. I have no problem with you helping.

Too bad to hear that someone from your association didn't jump at the opportunity to meet with the board members. If he/she had an issue they should've met. I know I've voiced all my concerns to my local association. In return: I get please show up to the next board meeting. If I had a concern with my commish at the Mite level. He would tell me to attend the next board meeting to voice my concern. Keep in mind this guys never played hockey in his life. This is part of the overall problem. If parents are going to spend a lot of money. Then the association better be set up to develop kids.

Getting ice time and receiving top instruction are two different things. This is where people lose focus.

Once again. Because so many people are confused:

Minnesota made
Total cost $895
Per ice time $8.95
1.5 hours per practice/game
16 squirt style games w/ referee's switch on the fly
100 total ice times for the season

my local association
Total cost $600
Per ice time $13.33
1 hour per practice/game
Mite style games - no referee's talent level all over the board
45 total ice times for the season

Hockey know it alls. You do the math. Add everything up. And let me know which makes more sense. Keep in mind that we have a total of 12 kids skating from our association in this programs. My son has two other buddies on the same team. Fun factor is there. Not to mention he still skates with some of the other kids that disn't choose to skate with MM.

Kids learn to respect the other players and coaches. When its all said and done. My son will be a better skater and better player. A's or B's is won't matter.

One good thing coming from all of this. I did speak to someone the other day. He mentioned that our local association is making some positive changes. As a hockey parent. This is all I can ask.

I've been told that many Mites from our association are taking a look at Minnesota made for next year.
I do have the option to keep my son in Minnesota made one more year or sign him up for Squirts. My determining factor. Ask the first year squirt parents from my local association. How well the squirt program went.

I also heard that Minnesota made might offer a choice program for Squirts. This will give many of you the opportunity to rip, slander, bash. be critical of MM.

Which leads me to my last question and point.

Why does anyone worry about Minnesota made? Do what's best for your situation. Instead of slandering MM. Worry about your own kid or assocaition. What can you do to make each better. Good luck!
I've been asked countless amount of times from other parents about rumors coming from Minnesota made.
The best one was Bernie was yelling and cussing at the coaches. He ended up kicking the coaches off the ice. Put his skates on and worked the kids hard until they all cried. Wow! I know some are against MM. But come on? Quit slandering a good program.

Good luck to all!

[greybeard58]

Greybeard- I don't know one kid that skates in the Minnesota made program that plays hockey in both Minnesota made and their local association. Do all the checking you want.
You'll find out that Minnesota made is a separate association not affiliated with Minnesota/USA hockey. Why does this concern you? Is your son a Mites aged player? Or are you trying to push buttons? You do have the right to believe what you want.

My comments
From the reading of the minutes it would seem MM is not an affiliate of USA/MN Hockey. Mn Hockey has rules against a youth player being on 2 rosters during the season.
A question maybe should be asked, Does MM do back round checks on their coaches as most organizations involved with the youth do? And if the answer is no, why not?

I never stated that there were players skating both,I stated that since MM was not affiliated with USA/MN Hockey that the players could skate both. As for back round checks on coaches why does this offend you, soccer, hockey even 4-H has them. Look elsewhere on these subjects and you will find out about my sons.As for Bernie I wish for all business men to succeed and the other suggestion was for a way for both MM and the associations to benefit each other. By the way the reply was to others not you so why attack me??

[tomASS]

By the way the reply was to others not you so why attack me??

greybeard - becasue that is what he does. Complete manipulation and twists of how he wants to interpret things so he can continue his inane ramblings. Just as in your other post about physical development - he interprets it as ice time where you meant it as growth of the human body.

It is just your turn for him to take something you wrote, spin-it and create something out of nothing so he can reinforce to himself, for the 100th time, he made a correct decision about MM.

[demongoed]

I can't tell you how sick I am of reading posts from Boogey on any and all threads where he can turn it around to a defense of his decision to send his kid to MM. What I don't get is why he feels a need to constantly, constantly, constantly explain over and over and over and over and over again his reasoning with mathematical gymnastics and rehashed arguements. Enough already. We all get it. The only reason I can think of for him to post again and again is that he desperately wants people to say, "Oh, after the 50th time, now I get it. You were right all along, and we're fools not to agree with you." His mantra is to each his own. AMEN. Walk the walk and end it Boogey. Even if people are posting lies, why do you care as long as you think you are doing the best for your child. Bernie doesn't need you to defend him. Not everyone agrees with you and nothing you post will change their minds. Games are starting and it's time to move on.

[tomASS]

I can't tell you how sick I am of reading posts from Boogey on any and all threads where he can turn it around to a defense of his decision to send his kid to MM. What I don't get is why he feels a need to constantly, constantly, constantly explain over and over and over and over and over again his reasoning with mathematical gymnastics and rehashed arguements. Enough already. We all get it. The only reason I can think of for him to post again and again is that he desperately wants people to say, "Oh, after the 50th time, now I get it. You were right all along, and we're fools not to agree with you." His mantra is to each his own. AMEN. Walk the walk and end it Boogey. Even if people are posting lies, why do you care as long as you think you are doing the best for your child. Bernie doesn't need you to defend him. Not everyone agrees with you and nothing you post will change their minds. Games are starting and it's time to move on.

Brilliant! Spot on!

[breakout]

I can't tell you how sick I am of reading posts from Boogey on any and all threads where he can turn it around to a defense of his decision to send his kid to MM. What I don't get is why he feels a need to constantly, constantly, constantly explain over and over and over and over and over again his reasoning with mathematical gymnastics and rehashed arguements. Enough already. We all get it. The only reason I can think of for him to post again and again is that he desperately wants people to say, "Oh, after the 50th time, now I get it. You were right all along, and we're fools not to agree with you." His mantra is to each his own. AMEN. Walk the walk and end it Boogey. Even if people are posting lies, why do you care as long as you think you are doing the best for your child. Bernie doesn't need you to defend him. Not everyone agrees with you and nothing you post will change their minds. Games are starting and it's time to move on.

It's quite possible that he doesn't have anything else to offer from a hockey perspective

[Neutron 14]

It's quite possible that he doesn't have anything else to offer from a hockey perspective

Colossal waste of bandwidth.

Lets all do our part not wasting any more by ignoring him.

[breakout]

It's quite possible that he doesn't have anything else to offer from a hockey perspective

Colossal waste of bandwidth.

Lets all do our part not wasting any more by ignoring him.

Agree

[Puckguy19]

Looks like this story with the raving Edina parent made the Star Tribune gossip column.

Link:

Temper, temper!

CJ is the second biggest waste of newspaper space behind Hartman. Yup, I think the classifieds have more value than her crap.

Kudos for those contacted to duck her questions. Readers don't care about this and their lack of cooperation ensured that she'd have to run a non-story. Seriously, what is this effort by her except for speculation and conjecture?

On the contrary, I think alot of people read both CJ and Sid. Agree with them or not, their columns appear because they have readership. Would you be so quick to dismiss the actions of BB, if it was another parent that hadn't been a North Star.

The standard for his behavior in my opinion, should be heightened. To whom much is given, much is expected. Why not just accept responsibility, and move on. Then this thread wouldn't have to be eigth pages long.

[tomASS]

It's quite possible that he doesn't have anything else to offer from a hockey perspective

Colossal waste of bandwidth.

Lets all do our part not wasting any more by ignoring him.

Thank you

[Lily Braden]

CJ is the second biggest waste of newspaper space behind Hartman. Yup, I think the classifieds have more value than her crap.

Kudos for those contacted to duck her questions. Readers don't care about this and their lack of cooperation ensured that she'd have to run a non-story. Seriously, what is this effort by her except for speculation and conjecture?[/quote]

On the contrary, I think alot of people read both CJ and Sid. Agree with them or not, their columns appear because they have readership. Would you be so quick to dismiss the actions of BB, if it was another parent that hadn't been a North Star.

The standard for his behavior in my opinion, should be heightened. To whom much is given, much is expected. Why not just accept responsibility, and move on. Then this thread wouldn't have to be eigth pages long. [/quote]

I am so sick of this "story"....can we all please move on?
Here are the facts....a 9 year old didn't make a team and a bunch of ADULTS spent 8 pages (with the predictible forays into MM territory) discussing it.
Eight pages, people.
At the center of this is a little boy who comes from a great family. A family with a dad who spends more time coaching strangers' kids than probably 99-percent of the people on this board. Just this morning, I watched him try to teach a bunch of six year old girls how to aim the puck somewhere in the same area-code as the net. I'm sure from that rink he went to another, to help another bunch of somebody else's kids learn the game.
CJ's column was weak because this "story" had some smoke, but no fire. She couldn't get anyone to comment, because there wasn't anything to say. And contrary to an earlier post, if this had been ANY other family, you wouldn't be reading about it in the paper.
So please, can we talk about something else...anything else. How about the weather? I hear it's going to snow...outdoor ice by Thanksgiving?