Associations or AAA in winter?

[Mister Hockey]

Since there has been a lot of talk about this. What would be better for a hockey player in the winter?

[Neutron 14]

One can only imagine how helpful and insightful this "scientific" poll will be.

[Mister Hockey]

I guess polls are worthless on this site. I just wish more would want AAA or birth years in the winter. Why is Minnesota the only state in the Nation that does not use birth years? I heard that is why North and South Dakota pulled out of the Minnkota District last year. What is the average age of the Minnesota Hockey board? I would guess 65. Hopefully some young blood will get involved soon and help make this state great again!!!

[sorno82]

They want 9th graders to be able to play bantam instead of Junior Gold if they don't make the JV team.

I asked the same question from a Minnesota Hockey guy and that was the answer.

[elliott70]

I guess polls are worthless on this site. I just wish more would want AAA or birth years in the winter. Why is Minnesota the only state in the Nation that does not use birth years? I heard that is why North and South Dakota pulled out of the Minnkota District last year.** What is the average age of the Minnesota Hockey board? I would guess 65. Hopefully some young blood will get involved soon and help make this state great again!!!

**Wrong. It had nothing to do with MN Hockey; although the new affiliate with Montana, Wyoming, Idaho would not have flown without MN Hockey.
It had everything to do with Texas (Dallas) and Colorado (Denver) controlling the Rocky Mountain affiliate and the difference bewteen them in many, mnay ways. Not the least being AAA teams vs local teams.
No & So Dakota and MN had (and still do have) a very, very, good working relationship.

[elliott70]

I guess polls are worthless on this site. I just wish more would want AAA or birth years in the winter. Why is Minnesota the only state in the Nation that does not use birth years? I heard that is why North and South Dakota pulled out of the Minnkota District last year. What is the average age of the Minnesota Hockey board? I would guess 65. ** Hopefully some young blood will get involved soon and help make this state great again!!!

**Wrong, again. Average age is 48 or 49.
Two are around 65 with one or two more in their 60's.
10 or 11 in their 50's. With the other dozen in their 30's or 40's.

[elliott70]

I guess polls are worthless on this site. I just wish more would want AAA or birth years in the winter. Why is Minnesota the only state in the Nation that does not use birth years? I heard that is why North and South Dakota pulled out of the Minnkota District last year. What is the average age of the Minnesota Hockey board? I would guess 65. Hopefully some young blood will get involved soon and help make this state great again!!!**

**Involvement, like charity, begins at home.

[elliott70]

They want 9th graders to be able to play bantam instead of Junior Gold if they don't make the JV team.

I asked the same question from a Minnesota Hockey guy and that was the answer.

Not necessarily so.
In fact, that was not mentioned during the discussion on the motion, but most likely was part of the thought process of many.

The argument was that it follows the natural progression of hockey in MN (for most).
Mites through 3rd grade.
Squirts in 4 & 5.
Pee-wees in 6 & 7.
Bantams in 8 & 9.
Then move off to HS.
Junior Gold (a MN thing) for those not wanting to or cut from Varsity/JV programs.

The vote to go to the same age cut-off as the school system (8/31 - 9/1) did not pass. A majority did not want to make any change in cut-off dates that year to minimize what was happening. It has nt been brought up since.

And (FYI) not participating in Nationals was done prior to this (I cannot remember the year, but the two were not related).

[watchdog]

i have a freind who lived out east where his son played hockey to peewee age. its mostly all triple AAA hockey. from listening to him talk i can tell you many things wrong with going AAA.. for one all these so called states that we should get on the wagon with well thier not the (state of hockey). believe me if states could set up a base of association hockey like we have they would. ok well theres no loyalty AT ALL in triple a. one little thing happens the coach sits your kid or yells at him parents dont get along whatever the situation parents just up and take little johnny to the next team down the road. theres no tradition no bonds formed among the players which breeds selfish all for one hockey that is nothing but total chaos. theres only two types of people in minnesota that would want to go to a aaa system. your not from minnesota or you never played hockey or been involved in hockey what so ever in minnesota..

[O-townClown]

I guess polls are worthless on this site. I just wish more would want AAA or birth years in the winter. Why is Minnesota the only state in the Nation that does not use birth years? I heard that is why North and South Dakota pulled out of the Minnkota District last year. What is the average age of the Minnesota Hockey board? I would guess 65. Hopefully some young blood will get involved soon and help make this state great again!!!

Mister, if you take states with relatively low participation (Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Arizona, California) it is necessary to offer something like AAA for the "good kids".

A Minnesota travel player, if they live in the Twins, will play virtually all of their games within 30 minutes of home. THAT IS A GOOD THING.

The cost for AAA knocks out so many potential players.

Minnesota develops a whopping 20% of all Americans that play D1 hockey, far more than any other state. THERE IS NO REASON TO CHANGE YOUTH HOCKEY.

I can see AAA as an option for the shoulder season, or dead of summer. Otherwise it isn't necessary to form "super teams" just for the sake of offering a "higher level" option to the very best Pee Wees and Bantams.

I know kids playing on TPH Thunder and Victory Honda. Believe me, these families would KILL for the hockey in Minnesota. They seek these out only because there isn't a suitable option. Minnesota Bantams is more than adequate.

Face it, kids are not stunted playing at home in Minnesota because there is high participation.

[Mister Hockey]

I personally talked to the main man at North Dakota Hockey (JACK) three years ago and he told me that they wanted to pull out of the Minnkota District as soon as they could. Also, he said the birth year thing was a big reason for it. He told me that they were going to talk to South Dakota and I guess they did and pulled out. When the average age of the Minnesota Hockey staff is between 30-40 I believe things will turn for the better.

[TrojanMan1]

If Minnesota went to AAA teams the good tradition that it already has going would be ruined, and all the rivalries would be ruined as well . There is nothing better than playing for your home town team in your home rink.

Besides Minnesota hockey with the associations is just as good as anywhere else. Just look at the Shattuck Tournament for the Bantam level last year, the top four teams were all from Minnesota

[elliott70]

I personally talked to the main man at North Dakota Hockey (JACK) three years ago and he told me that they wanted to pull out of the Minnkota District as soon as they could. Also, he said the birth year thing was a big reason for it. He told me that they were going to talk to South Dakota and I guess they did and pulled out. When the average age of the Minnesota Hockey staff is between 30-40 I believe things will turn for the better.

Sorry.
But I do not believe you.
I sat in on the meetings.
I was there when Jack and other North Dakota people were there (at he Minnkota meetings). I was there when the South Dakota people were there.
Not one person spoke to the MN Hockey age difference.
I run D16, which runs right along the ND border and we deal with ND and cross border things all the time. But, sorry, no age difference prolems ever discussed at the local, district or state levels.
The age difference was discussed between MN Hockey delegates and the balance of the Minnkota delegation and teh ND and SD leadership. ND and SD supported MN Hockey.
The move to form a new USA Hockey affiliate began in eastern Montana and 'western' North Dakota (where the age level has little effect by Brad Bekkedahl of Williston and his brother (lives in sydney Montana I believe) to resolve travel and other issues with Colorado and Texas.

They (the SD and ND leaders) also thought the move would be good for MN Hockey to be a stand alone affiliate such as MI, NY, MA.

[sorno82]

There have been several studies that showed that when you were born in a given year had a large correlation on athletic success. They showed that if you were born in the first 1/4 or even first 1/2 of the year, you were more likely to excel in sports. The theory is that these kids were more mature than kids born in the 2nd half, therefor, they were likely to have more success early and be exposed to better coachin since they made better teams. There are always exceptions to the rule, however, it was quite compelling.

The way Minnesota hockey is set up, the kids that would normally be the youngest kid in an age group, now has a chance to be in the upper 25% in age every 2 years. This, combined with the current AAA setup, allows a kid to be one of the oldest, as well as one of the youngest, depending on the team they are on. I think this strikes a nice balance and allows for a more natural development.

Also, since a lot of boys who have summer B-Days have been held back from starting school for a year, they are now allowed to play hockey with their classmates. I would be open to a June 1 Cut-off to accomodate all kids that have been held back.

[Marty McSorely]

1) Richies in the Cities and their specialized training
2) Everyone thinks they deserve an A team
3) Richies playing AAA all over world in the Summer causing One sport athletes.
4) Mother Nature stealing winter!

[elliott70]

I personally talked to the main man at North Dakota Hockey (JACK) three years ago and he told me that they wanted to pull out of the Minnkota District as soon as they could. Also, he said the birth year thing was a big reason for it. He told me that they were going to talk to South Dakota and I guess they did and pulled out. When the average age of the Minnesota Hockey staff is between 30-40 I believe things will turn for the better.

Sorry, again I disagree with you.

Someone in their late thirties may have an idea of how hockey works and what changes would be good, but a 30 year old generally has no or little experience in the local program let alone district, state or national goings on.

I am not saying 30 year olds should not be on the board but if you do the math to have 30-40 as the average age is not conceivable.
For one reason, it takes time. Uncompensated time. Most people in that age range have a huge committment to work and family and then to the local community. I am sorry Mister Hockey, but you, personally, need more gray hair.
Second, not alot of people jump forward to volunteer at the local level, forget about beyond that.
It is difficult to host a region or state event in the metro area because of the lack of volunteers. Tell me where you will get 27 plus volunteers to serve for the betterment of ALL hockey throughout the entire state. And then some of those volunteer to work for the good of hockey across the nation.
Sorry, but you don't get it.

[elliott70]

I personally talked to the main man at North Dakota Hockey (JACK)**** three years ago and he told me that they wanted to pull out of the Minnkota District as soon as they could. Also, he said the birth year thing was a big reason for it. He told me that they were going to talk to South Dakota and I guess they did and pulled out. When the average age of the Minnesota Hockey staff is between 30-40 I believe things will turn for the better.

****Not to dismiss all the great things Jack Kleven did for hockey in North Dakota (and NW Minn), but Brad Bekkedahl was the force behind the change.

[greybeard58]

I would also add that you get on your local board first. Maybe wait till your players are in high school and then volunteer for the District board and after time on the District try for a position at the State level. But be prepared some position at the District and most at the state are a year round involvement as Elliott can verify.

[Mister Hockey]

I talked to him plenty during the world junior tournament a few years back at T. R. Falls. Gossip probably at the time but I knew that he was not happy at the time with Minnesota Hockey. I do like the rivalries also but don't you think that the Blades vs Machine is a rivalry? YES!!! And at a higher level of play. I understand outstate where the talent might not be there for AAA winter hockey so if a player doesn't want to travel long distances which is more than likely the case for winter AAA hockey, do not do it then.

[Rocket78]

Why do so many posters hate MNHockey so much and come up with all of this crap. Our system is the envy of hockey programs around the US. There are several individuals on this board and on the HC board that are part of "private" programs around the country that have stated that they would love to have the system we have. One guy coaches for Assabet Valley MA (perrenial girls national champions at 12U, 14U and 19U) and he consistently has mentioned that he would love it if they had our system. Their kids have to travel all over the east coast to play and we complain about driving to New Prague. Many of them actually play on their travel team and then on a local (I think they call it rep hockey) team.


Regarding the age of the MN Hockey board, I suspect that most of them don't start those positions until their kids have finished their youth hockey years. That will generally mean that they will be over 35. Are we going to discriminate against them due to their age? Hey, I have an idea, let's outsource their positions to CHINA or INDIA ! Many of the coaches and hyper interested parents leave youth hockey as their kids leave bantams so they can watch their kids play on their high school team. When their last kid graduates from high school they tend to drift into more important things like playing in a Texas Hold 'Em league rather than volunteering their time to further the youth program.

[breakout]

I guess polls are worthless on this site. I just wish more would want AAA or birth years in the winter. Why is Minnesota the only state in the Nation that does not use birth years? I heard that is why North and South Dakota pulled out of the Minnkota District last year. What is the average age of the Minnesota Hockey board? I would guess 65. Hopefully some young blood will get involved soon and help make this state great again!!!

There are many people from outside this state that look at Minnesota Hockey with envy. If you think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, you may be incorrect. Would you like to pay 15K for your kid to play higher level AAA hockey in the winter? That cost does not include travel for the family.

We cannot broaden the hockey pyramid base by making hockey more expensive than it already is. We chase too many good athletes away from considering hockey because of the cost to play..

In my opinion, AAA hockey is a great off season supplement for those kids and parents that want to take hockey a step further.

[greybeard58]

From the North Dakota site. These ages are the same as Mn Hockey. I have been told that South Dakota is the same also.


Division Definitions for the 2007/2008 Season

When a team is registered, there are four essential items that identify the team. They are the Team Name, Division, Class and Category. These four items appear on the Official Roster. The “Team Name” will remain the same as has always been used (i.e. Fargo Raider Bantam A). We will continue to call Bantams, Bantams and Peewees, Peewees, etc. The official documentation will show “Division” according to the divisions as defined below. The Class (A, B, B1, B2, C, H, etc.) will remain the same and the Category (Travel or House) will remain the same. The complete set of Division definitions for Youth/Adult and Girls/Women with the appropriate date ranges is a selectable option in the CyberSport Electronic Registration System.

YOUTH/ADULT

ADULT 01/01/1917 06/30/1987
JR GOLD USAH HS--07/01/1988******06/30/1992

MN BANTAM USAH MIDGET-- 07/01/1992----- 06/30/1994

MN PEEWEE USAH BANTAM---07/01/1994----- 06/30/1996

MN SQUIRT USAH PEEWEE---7/01/1996----- 06/30/1998

MN MITE USAH SQUIRT-----07/01/1998----- 06/30/2000

MINI MITE---- 07/01/2000------ 06/30/2005

GIRLS/WOMEN

WOMEN--------- 01/01/1917------ 12/31/1987
19&UNDGIRL------ 01/01/1988----- 06/30/1990

GIRLS MN 16U USAH 19U-- 07/01/1990------06/30/1992

GIRLS MN 14U USAH 16U-- 07/01/1992----- 06/30/1994

GIRLS MN 12U USAH 14U-- 07/01/1994----- 06/30/1996

GIRLS MN 10U USAH 12U-- 07/01/1996---- 06/30/1998

GIRLS MN 8U USAH 10U--- 07/01/1998---- 06/30/2005

[zboni99]

I think MN has it right by somewhat aligning the age cut-off for hockey with the school's age grade level. Kid's should play with the kid's in their grade. I think it would be a big mistake to go to calendar year age alignment. The young one's will always have some disadvantage no matter where you set the age points for a given level of play, but by aligning by grade the kids get to play with their school friends. My son is a late '93, 8th grade, and if he had to play on a '93 team the majority of the team would be in 9th grade. He wouldn't like that at all.
Except for a few of the elite AAA teams, don't most of those teams disappear by Bantams? I think a histogram of player birth months for these year based AAA teams would be heavily weighted in the first quarter/half of the year.
With that being said, I'd like to see in season Tier I sanctioned by MN Hockey. I couldn't care less about what these people want to do, but I think that should be an available option.
Maybe the rest of the country should see the error in their ways and adopt the MN Hockey age system.

[SuperStar]

My son does have experience playing winter AAA (Fire) and now with a large PWA association team. Both experiences and teams have been AND are now a great time. All depends on the coaching, parents, teammates, ect that you have..

If you have great coaches like we do now AND did, you can't lose...The money and travel is about the only difference we have had. With travel expenses, gas, hotel, food, shopping, team fees etc. we spent around 6K a year. It will turn out to be about 1500 this year.

My "50 cent" worth

[54fighting]

Why can't there be both?
I can understand why someone who lives in a giant association would have no interest in AAA. But what if you live in a area with a small association that only has enough kids sign up to field one team at any age level. If they decide to play B2 Bantams what does a skilled player do.

Why not have the AAA option available in MN for those who are interested. Right now some of them are left without a home.

If association hockey really is better I would think that offering up a AAA option will not have much of an effect on the current system. Maybe it would just provide a few more kids with the chance to skate at a level that keeps it fun for them.

Just a thought.