Association play - should they welcome AAA boomerangs?

[O-townClown]

Okay, I'll give a very specific example and I'd like to poll public opinion. I'm not looking for what you think a coach or association will do, I'd like to know what you think is the right way to handle a situation. FWIW, I think this situation will become somewhat common in the near future.

Let's say you have a player that is:

** a 2nd year Squirt by the Minnesota calendar. As of today that is a late 1996 birth date.

** would be a Pee Wee on the USA Hockey national calendar. (1995 is Major Pee Wee and 1996 is Minor.)

** played Squirt A in their association as a 4th grader - 1st year Minnesota Squirt - and was one of the stronger players.

Now, for sake of discussion, the family evaluated options and decided to play on a AAA 1996 team playing a national schedule (as Pee Wees) instead of returning to the association and being a superstar Squirt, mainly because of ability but assisted in part by being one of the oldest. Something like the Fire or a Minnesota Made-based team if they start fielding one in season is what I have in mind.

Finally, for the point of my post, do you feel the association should welcome this player back with open arms for their first year of Minnesota-calendar Pee Wees? Doing so will obviously set a precedent that it is okay to "toggle" back and forth between community-based teams and all-star compilations.

Again, I want your answer, not how you think those in charge may feel.

[elliott70]

MN Hockey associations have no choice. They have to accept all players within the boundaries of their association.

How they treat them maybe a different story and maybe what you are asking.

[MoreCowBell]

You are a clown to even ask this question. Does this also mean that if a kid is attending private school he should be discriminated against for a spot on the Bantam team?

[Air Force 1]

Yes, you let them back. The first choice says it all, they did nothing wrong, they tried a different avenue and it turned out, for one thing or another, it didn't work for them.

[BoogeyMan]

Clown-around-town-
I would think that every association will go through the tryout process and grade each player.
Not sure why they would treat any players different than others. Isn't the goal of each association to develop the players and create strong teams?

I hope you're not implying that certain associations would put targets on some kids backs? This would mean the adults are acting like kids. And the kids end up suffering. Kind of scary if you ask me.

PEACE!

[O-townClown]

How they treat them maybe a different story and maybe what you are asking.

Exactly. A coach could easily not pick this young player for the Pee Wee A team.

[O-townClown]

You are a clown to even ask this question.

Anyone can ask a question. The coward wouldn't answer it.

Does this also mean that if a kid is attending private school he should be discriminated against for a spot on the Bantam team?

Happens.

[O-townClown]

Isn't the goal of each association to develop the players and create strong teams?

Boogey, for some it is closely intertwined with the HS above it.

[Gump]

Ridiculous survey and question -
However, I do know a certain metro area District VP that has threatened numerous players with a one year suspension if they chose to play Tier I and then return to the local association. Players have come and gone, all without the threatened suspension. But what a statement to make to a family debating an important decision.

[keepyourheadup]

A kid has every right to return to association hockey, to deny anyone the opportunity is against what community based programs are all about, the placement of the player in question is what becomes the problem. Some will argue that without loyalty put them on the b team, we're trying to develop a High School team. I say let them play at the level and on the team they belong. The Trib had a great article relating to this subject a week or two ago...its all about the development of the individual not the team..get use to it folks its here to stay. As a parent I'd be more concerned about the child being accepted by his teammates and the tense social environment that is sure to be created upon their return.

[TitanCoach]

A kid has every right to return to association hockey, to deny anyone the opportunity is against what community based programs are all about, the placement of the player in question is what becomes the problem. Some will argue that without loyalty put them on the b team, we're trying to develop a High School team. I say let them play at the level and on the team they belong. The Trib had a great article relating to this subject a week or two ago...its all about the development of the individual not the team..get use to it folks its here to stay. As a parent I'd be more concerned about the child being accepted by his teammates and the tense social environment that is sure to be created upon their return.

I know of several players that left association hockey for Tier I and then returned to association hockey. The problem hasn't been with the teammates accepting his return. Most go to school together, play ball together, ... so there weren't issues. The problems come from resentful parents and board/district officials who were offended and took the departure personally. Some seem to try to make it their purpose to cause problems for the player.

[keepyourheadup]

Agreed, thats what I meant by "tense social environment". Its almost always the parents who cause the problems and the kids are left to deal with the fall out.

[DMom]

tell me, as a Choice Mite family are you allowed to attend association meetings?, try to vote?, call association coaches selection team members at home? all because you want to make sure that, ( although you weren't willing to have your 8 year old son skate Squirt C hockey and coach a team and develop young hockey players who probably have never had a really great coach before) you are kept in mind for contingent A squirt coach next year.

Yes, to the kid. I am sure he is a talented and sweet natured boy, who will be an asset to the local association team. Dad may have a tougher time being accepted. He may coach, but he will have a tough road of it I believe.

[spin-o-rama]

Signing up for association hockey is a 1 season at a time commitment. It would not be o.k. to be trying to toggle back and forth in-season. (I don't think USA H roster rules would allow this) It would be dumb for an association not to welcome back a good asset. If it was a cancer family then it would be different.

Having a player that leaves for tier 1 is really no different than if the player sat out the year and played basketball or did anything else. A player doesn't have to return year after year and shouldn't have that obligation. When they return they will need to make the 1 year commitment and go through the tryouts and prove they are good enough, just like everyone else.

Players leaving for a year gives an association the incentive to make their program strong to entice retention. They can show how good they are by developing some more players.

Blacklisting a kid that makes a free choice is an abuse of the almost monopoly that MN H has and will only fuel the AAA/Tier I push.

[54fighting]

Yes, you welcome them back.
This is about the kids and the couple of times I have witnessed this happening the kids have no problem welcoming the player back.
I love how some districts try to scare kids into not trying other options with the " you will never play here again or you will never make our select 15 team if you leave" threats. I know in my home district we have a director that would love to see the Fire and all kids who give it a shot be banned from playing in his district.
To bad, all it does is hurt the kids and it will eventually wind up hurting MN hockey as well.

[Tenoverpar]

Doesn't this go back to the idea of a blind tryout process?
When kids tryout for hockey teams arent' they infinately just a number on the ice. The tryout commitee/coach select the 15 best players that best fit their system.

Why should anyone in the rink have any inkling or care of where any 9-13 year old kid played the year before? Is it on the registration packet?
If it is, it shouldn't be it's meaningless.

Can the kid play hockey? Is he at your tryout? Does he reside within the prereq boundaries etc..to play for your program?

Yes, Yes, Yes...roster him and have the Dad who's feelings were hurt suck it up and realize it's a game for the kids, not for the parents.

[theref]

Clown-around-town-
I would think that every association will go through the tryout process and grade each player.
Not sure why they would treat any players different than others. Isn't the goal of each association to develop the players and create strong teams?

I hope you're not implying that certain associations would put targets on some kids backs? This would mean the adults are acting like kids. And the kids end up suffering. Kind of scary if you ask me.

PEACE!

So you are saying that there are no politics in youth hockey then? Hmmm....I thought you had been around a while.

Associations put targets on kids backs if their parents are not part of the "crowd" anyway if you know what I'm saying, so I can see a player coming back from a AAA team getting somewhat of the cold shoulder.

[edge]

elliott,
It is great that you use this forum as a way to get feedback. I'm not sure what the real issues are, but I don't think either way is the right one.
Don't you think this all started when Minnesota decided to stay with the June 30th cut off?
I remember when minnesota and north Dakota would send a team to the national tournaments, they where assoc. teams. I don't think we would have to go all AAA or nothing, or have some cities go AAA and some not that would be a hugh step backwards.
Couldn't Minnesota look at just going with the USA hockey Birth years and just deal with a jr gold level for all the additional 9th graders.
This way all teams across the nation would at least have the same age kids and then would have the different levels from there.

[Hobey Faker]

Clown-around-town-
I would think that every association will go through the tryout process and grade each player.
Not sure why they would treat any players different than others. Isn't the goal of each association to develop the players and create strong teams?

I hope you're not implying that certain associations would put targets on some kids backs? This would mean the adults are acting like kids. And the kids end up suffering. Kind of scary if you ask me.

PEACE!

So you are saying that there are no politics in youth hockey then? Hmmm....I thought you had been around a while.

Associations put targets on kids backs if their parents are not part of the "crowd" anyway if you know what I'm saying, so I can see a player coming back from a AAA team getting somewhat of the cold shoulder.

my experiance was no problem with the kids, a few cold shoulders from people I could care less about anyway.
we will see the second time around if we decide to go that route.
at present my kid is still friends and still supports his friends team in the association. I guess that showes the kids are more mature than some adults. Personaly I don't care what people think and I teach my kid to be his own person and not fallow the crowd.
his choice to play for the fire was based on what he likes about that program and not about bashing our association. We have no animosity
towards our association and find most people dont have animosity towards us and if they do; it's there problem and I won't loose any sleep over it.

[watchdog]

i think its a good survey and question. if i was the parent to this child i wouldnt know what to expect upon returning. 96 squirt couldnt play association because of superstar status? could of tried out for peewee. when are people gona figure it out? their is no magic salution. every kid is gona get to a certain peek and thats it. play at your association throw in alittle summer hockey or camps and hit the park for pick up hockey. thats all it takes if your kid is going to be that good thats all it takes to bring that out. things like mm all they are doing is traning little kids to play at a higher level to beat other kids at that level but the truth is as time goes by the other kids who have all the physcial attributes and athletism will catch and pass these kids in ability. than its such a wake up call for these little gretzkys to handle it. the other bad effect it has is what about creativity playing systems to young handcuffs these kids so they cant learn hockey in a sense. systems work at the pro level because players have already learned creativity to change something in the moment it is needed. than on the other hand by giving your child something like mm its gona help them reach their true potential and may make them capable of making a varsity team they might not have other wise. as for this topic i think its a cop out. as a parent your saying hey my kid is to good for your kid. yet everyone expects to be treated good when they decide well i guess our son will play with you guys after all. the way the system is set up association have to take you back but you better check the chip on your shoulder at the door and be a team player.

[MoreCowBell]

i think its a good survey and question. if i was the parent to this child i wouldnt know what to expect upon returning. 96 squirt couldnt play association because of superstar status? could of tried out for peewee. when are people gona figure it out? their is no magic salution. every kid is gona get to a certain peek and thats it. play at your association throw in alittle summer hockey or camps and hit the park for pick up hockey. thats all it takes if your kid is going to be that good thats all it takes to bring that out. things like mm all they are doing is traning little kids to play at a higher level to beat other kids at that level but the truth is as time goes by the other kids who have all the physcial attributes and athletism will catch and pass these kids in ability. than its such a wake up call for these little gretzkys to handle it. the other bad effect it has is what about creativity playing systems to young handcuffs these kids so they cant learn hockey in a sense. systems work at the pro level because players have already learned creativity to change something in the moment it is needed. than on the other hand by giving your child something like mm its gona help them reach their true potential and may make them capable of making a varsity team they might not have other wise. as for this topic i think its a cop out. as a parent your saying hey my kid is to good for your kid. yet everyone expects to be treated good when they decide well i guess our son will play with you guys after all. the way the system is set up association have to take you back but you better check the chip on your shoulder at the door and be a team player.

MM is all about skill development, they really don't do systems.

[watchdog]

the main point on mm i was making is it overdevelops at a young age. it will make an awesome squirt and peewee. you can only take it so far the product in the end will still be decided by genetics,heart,and sheer will.

[MoreCowBell]

the main point on mm i was making is it overdevelops at a young age. it will make an awesome squirt and peewee. you can only take it so far the product in the end will still be decided by genetics,heart,and sheer will.

If you take twin boys, one does MM and the other does traditional, which boy would be a better player in the end? And how do you over develope a player, what study are you refering to.

[Hobey Faker]

the main point on mm i was making is it overdevelops at a young age. it will make an awesome squirt and peewee. you can only take it so far the product in the end will still be decided by genetics,heart,and sheer will.

what it does is help build a solid foundation, without that- genetics, heart
and sheer will will only take you so far. put the two together and you have somthing.

[regdunlop77]

the main point on mm i was making is it overdevelops at a young age. it will make an awesome squirt and peewee. you can only take it so far the product in the end will still be decided by genetics,heart,and sheer will.

If you take twin boys, one does MM and the other does traditional, which boy would be a better player in the end? And how do you over develope a player, what study are you refering to.

The "dog" is referring to "the school of hard knocks" study.

The best kind of study.