Penalty Leaders why do they get such a bad rap?

[MNHockeyFan]

Interesting facts that I picked up reviewing the MGHCA website. These numbers are as of 1/13/08 and only as accurate as the MGHCA information. I pulled the top penalty minute players, used seniors only, and players with at least 10 points. This is a complete listing of all senior players that fell into the above criteria. Many of these players have a rap against them as being cheap and dirty type players. However it shows you the kind of players that the D1 programs are looking for. Big, strong, physical, aggresive to the puck, and willing to take a beating as well as give it.

60 minutes Andrea Green (Eden Prairie) going to Boston College
56 minutes Jessica Laurinitis (Wayzata) will play D1 not sure where yet!
52 minutes Lauren Smith (Holy Angels) going to Ohio State
50 minutes Monique Weber (Elk River) going to UConn
50 minutes Jac Daggit (Park Cottage Grove) going to SCSU
45 minutes Carey Hoffman (Mankato East) college hockey?
38 minutes Mikaela Mahoney (Buffalo) very nice player good enough to play D3 and maybe walk-on D1
38 minutes Brittany DeBoer (Spr Lake Park) not familiar with
38 minutes Liz Orke (Wayzata) going to Minnesota State Mankato
34 minutes Ariel Mackley (Burnsville) going to Minnesota State Mankato
32 minutes Montana Vichorek (Cloquet) going to Bemidji
32 minutes Tayler Broekemier (Crookston) not familiar with
32 minutes Kelsey Abrahamson (Simley) not familiar with
30 minutes Kelly Seeler (Eden Prairie) going to U of Minnesota
30 minutes Meaghan Brigl (Eastview) great soccer player!
28 minutes Kelsey Ketcher (Eden Prairie) will play D1 not sure where yet!

A total of 16 player listed. 8 have already made public their commitments to play D1 and 2 more I'm extremely confident will be playing D1 next year. So if everything works out as I'm expecting at least 62.5% of these top penalty takers will be playing at the highest level next year.

Just wanted to point out that there are many excellent players that do NOT take excessive penalties - fewer than 25 minutes total - who either are or will be going on to the next level:

Sarah Erickson of Benidji
Emily Erickson, Dana Gallop and Molly Arola of GRG
Sadie Lundquist of Cloquet
Sally Komarek and Margaret Chute of Blake
Kaylee Keys of CDH
Marlee Wheelhouse of Crookston
Becky Kortum, Jenna Peterson and Cara Johnson of Hopkins
Lauren Zrust of Blaine
Alex Nelson of Andover
Haylea Schmid of St. Francis
Kelsey Romatoski of Holy Angels
Meghan Lorence and Gina McDonald of Irondale
Emma Shields-Nordness and Ashley Duffy of BSM
Melissa Feste of Eden Prairie
Erin Babineau of Roseville
Danielle Welch of Hastings

This is just a partial list of some really good players who do not rack up a lot of penalties.

[keepitreal]

Just wanted to point out that there are many excellent players that do NOT take excessive penalties - fewer than 25 minutes total - who either are or will be going on to the next level.

Thank you.

Important distinction as well, defense tend to take more by virtue of their position and also may double shift on many teams (opportunity).

Trying to put this gently... I believe there will be a large helping of discipline awaiting some of the names on this list when they arrive at their new teams next year.

[southern-cross-check]

Good point...you can play hard, straight and clean at the same time.

On the other hand, some girls just like the contact and playing rough with other girls.

It's the world we live in.


"Don't let anyone tell you that you have to be a certain way. Be unique. Be what you feel" -- Melissa Etheridge

[BCGHockey]

MNhockeyfan, many of the players you mention are NOT SENIORS, which my post speaks directly of. In addition S. Erickson plays a very physical style and has missed over a 1/3 of Bemidji's games this year competing with team U18.

[BCGHockey]

My case an point. Over 1/2 are not seniors, 2 that are have not committed to play D1, and a couple are late signs.

Sarah Erickson of Benidji (has missed 6-7games)
Emily Erickson, Dana Gallop and Molly Arola of GRG (only 1 senior in group and she signed late W/ BEMIDJI)
Sadie Lundquist of Cloquet (NOT A SENIOR)
Sally Komarek and Margaret Chute of Blake (NEITHER ARE SENIORS)
Kaylee Keys of CDH (SENIOR NOT SURE SHE HAS SIGNED)
Marlee Wheelhouse of Crookston (SENIOR SIGNED WITH BEMIDJI)
Becky Kortum, Jenna Peterson and Cara Johnson of Hopkins (j. PETERSON IS THE ONLY SENIOR)
Lauren Zrust of Blaine (NOT A SENIOR)
Alex Nelson of Andover (NOT A SENIOR)
Haylea Schmid of St. Francis (NOT A SENIOR)
Kelsey Romatoski of Holy Angels (NOT A SENIOR)
Meghan Lorence and Gina McDonald of Irondale (NOT A SENIORS)
Emma Shields-Nordness and Ashley Duffy of BSM (SENIORS, DUFFY D1)
Melissa Feste of Eden Prairie (SENIOR)
Erin Babineau of Roseville (SENIOR LATE SIGN TO BEMIDJI)
Danielle Welch of Hastings (SENIOR & PENALTIES ARE NOT SHOWN)

Many of the higher penalty minute players did commit earlier in the recruiting process (Green, Smith, Weber, Daggit, Orke, & Seeler) I'm sure we could through the twins in from SSM into this group!

[MNHockeyFan]

MNhockeyfan, many of the players you mention are NOT SENIORS, which my post speaks directly of. In addition S. Erickson plays a very physical style and has missed over a 1/3 of Bemidji's games this year competing with team U18.

Just because they are not seniors does not mean they aren't great players. And just because they don't get a lot of penalties does not mean they don't play hard. That was my point: to be really good you don't have to take a lot of penalties. Look at the number of penalties the leading scorers for the Gophers womens' team have taken this year, in 22 games:

1. Erica McKenzie: 4
2. Gigi Marvin: 10 (still less than 1 every 2 games)
3. Bobbi Ross: 6
4. Rachel Drazen: 11 (plays defense)
5. Brittany Francis: 4
6. Jen Schoullis: 8
7. Anya Miller: 6 (plays defense)
8. Emily West: 6

This means that, on average, each of these top scorers is taking less than one penalty every three games. And if you've seen these women play, I think you would agree that all of them play very aggressively, but yet know how to play smart.

[State Champ 97]

MNhockeyfan, many of the players you mention are NOT SENIORS, which my post speaks directly of. In addition S. Erickson plays a very physical style and has missed over a 1/3 of Bemidji's games this year competing with team U18.

Just because they are not seniors does not mean they aren't great players. And just because they don't get a lot of penalties does not mean they don't play hard. That was my point: to be really good you don't have to take a lot of penalties. Look at the number of penalties the leading scorers for the Gophers womens' team have taken this year, in 22 games:

1. Erica McKenzie: 4
2. Gigi Marvin: 10 (still less than 1 every 2 games)
3. Bobbi Ross: 6
4. Rachel Drazen: 11 (plays defense)
5. Brittany Francis: 4
6. Jen Schoullis: 8
7. Anya Miller: 6 (plays defense)
8. Emily West: 6

This means that, on average, each of these top scorers is taking less than one penalty every three games. And if you've seen these women play, I think you would agree that all of them play very aggressively, but yet know how to play smart.

I see your point but it is not a fair comparison. Those young women are playing against competition that is pretty equal to them. High school players can find themselves playing against competition that is much more varied. An example is a Senior that is a D1 prospect could go into a corner with an 8th or 9th grader that is not especially strong and maybe never will be. The Senior goes hard and plays aggressive while the younger player with out as good of skating skills falls down. Many times a penalty is called simply because the player recieving the penalty is bigger, stronger, faster, and more aggressive than the other.

[RSI]

Valley, your not getting the point! When an 8th or 9th grader is going for the puck against a good sized stronger senior and the 8th or 9th grader gets bumped off the puck and falls. Almost 90% of the time there is a penalty called. There is more size parity in college hockey so this will not happen.

Perhaps my biggest pet peeve in girl's hockey. It drives me crazy when 2 players collide and the one that's stronger on her skates gets a penalty. They ran into each other, that's not a penalty!

[Hansonbrother]

THAT IS my point. There are too many 8 and 9th graders on the ice that don't belong on the ice~That's why girls can sit in the box and still win over half of their games. If they are that penalized of a player, why are they not smart enough to adapt to the game. They KNOW they are going to get called for running over a weaker player. A great player will adapt to the game. A good player will sit in the box. As you can see, there are not enough great players to fill a D1 roster, therefore they also recruit good players.

you still don't get it, The D-1 caliber player has one speed, and that is full out. She doesn't wait to see what the opponent is going to do, she goes in and makes something happen and attacks what is weak. I've seen many a times that a skilled player will play through a player or use their body to get the puck and knock over a weaker player, and get called for some hanus infraction. I blame the referee's for not knowing the difference.

[MNHockeyFan]

An example is a Senior that is a D1 prospect could go into a corner with an 8th or 9th grader that is not especially strong and maybe never will be. The Senior goes hard and plays aggressive while the younger player with out as good of skating skills falls down. Many times a penalty is called simply because the player recieving the penalty is bigger, stronger, faster, and more aggressive than the other.

We've all seen penalties called where two players make incidental contact and the player who remains standing is the one sent to the box. But the majority of penalties called are either (a) interference or (b) some kind of stick violation (tripping, hooking, cross-checking). Players can learn to avoid taking most of the stick infractions simply by "moving their feet" to gain possession and then using correct body positioning. Get to the puck first and then use your body to shield the puck from the opposing player. If instead you first use your stick to slow your opponent down, you will likely draw a call. Same applies to checking and elbowing - players who first go after their opponent's body instead of the puck will probably go to the box. You certainly don't see many calls made because a player is faster, and as the above list shows it is very possible for girls to learn how to be aggressive without taking unnecessary penalties. Although certain penalties are unavoidable, winning the battles without leaving your team a player short is a skill all in itself.

[GOCARDS1]

Ashley holmes and abby williams can both be added to that list. Both have 10 or less penalty minutes, both are going d-1.... Alex takes very few penalties. The highest is 12 minutes...

[hockeyrube7]

This discussion reminds me of being a young kid with a smaller younger sibling. They take a run at you, bounce off, and you'd be the one getting yelled at. Along the same line, I've heard several kids that say they have to change their game, just to play against smaller weaker kids, "She falls down ever time you get near her and I get called, what can I do?" This is what it is I guess, yet is some what unfair to the bigger stronger player. Maybe this is what the original intension of checking was meant for? Unfortunately, it is used for much more.

[keepitreal]

THAT IS my point. There are too many 8 and 9th graders on the ice that don't belong on the ice~That's why girls can sit in the box and still win over half of their games. If they are that penalized of a player, why are they not smart enough to adapt to the game. They KNOW they are going to get called for running over a weaker player. A great player will adapt to the game. A good player will sit in the box. As you can see, there are not enough great players to fill a D1 roster, therefore they also recruit good players.

you still don't get it, The D-1 caliber player has one speed, and that is full out. She doesn't wait to see what the opponent is going to do, she goes in and makes something happen and attacks what is weak. I've seen many a times that a skilled player will play through a player or use their body to get the puck and knock over a weaker player, and get called for some hanus infraction. I blame the referee's for not knowing the difference.

I agree there's a "two minutes for hustling" penalty and also sometimes a larger or more powerful player will be victimized by either their size or strength.

That said, there's a few seniors, (a few) on this list who don't hesitate to lay the lumber or flat-out bodycheck other players, I have seen it on more than one occassion this season, especially late in games. I'm not suggesting that some seniors who have already committed are being cheapshots-- wait, maybe I am?

[xwildfan]

Referees are obviously a huge factor in the number of penalties. I like the referees who have played at least through high school and preferably college. They seem to realize tht hockey is a contact sport and are able to determine what is incidental contact.

[Valley Eggroll]

THAT IS my point. There are too many 8 and 9th graders on the ice that don't belong on the ice~That's why girls can sit in the box and still win over half of their games. If they are that penalized of a player, why are they not smart enough to adapt to the game. They KNOW they are going to get called for running over a weaker player. A great player will adapt to the game. A good player will sit in the box. As you can see, there are not enough great players to fill a D1 roster, therefore they also recruit good players.

you still don't get it, The D-1 caliber player has one speed, and that is full out. She doesn't wait to see what the opponent is going to do, .

Wow, what kind of a comment is that? If she is not waiting to see what the opponent is going to do, she certainly wouldn't be considered a great hockey player in my book. I believe the term used for that type of player would be "freight train". These are the good players to fill a roster. A great player anticipates what the opponent is going to do and cashes in on the read. Give me the 10 best points leaders with under 20 PM and you play with the 10 best points leaders with the highest PM's and I will give you 2-1 odds and smile all the way to the bank. You may want to see if Betty Crocker is cooking up some brownies!

[Hansonbrother]

THAT IS my point. There are too many 8 and 9th graders on the ice that don't belong on the ice~That's why girls can sit in the box and still win over half of their games. If they are that penalized of a player, why are they not smart enough to adapt to the game. They KNOW they are going to get called for running over a weaker player. A great player will adapt to the game. A good player will sit in the box. As you can see, there are not enough great players to fill a D1 roster, therefore they also recruit good players.

you still don't get it, The D-1 caliber player has one speed, and that is full out. She doesn't wait to see what the opponent is going to do, .

Wow, what kind of a comment is that? If she is not waiting to see what the opponent is going to do, she certainly wouldn't be considered a great hockey player in my book. I believe the term used for that type of player would be "freight train". These are the good players to fill a roster. A great player anticipates what the opponent is going to do and cashes in on the read. Give me the 10 best points leaders with under 20 PM and you play with the 10 best points leaders with the highest PM's and I will give you 2-1 odds and smile all the way to the bank. You may want to see if Betty Crocker is cooking up some brownies!

I'll take that bet because I'll take the player who hustles and can think while moving their feet anyday over the one who waits for things to happen and only cashes in on someones elses effort. Chances are, the girls who make things happen, will do so shorthanded as well. Based on your analogy, you're calling Seeler from EP and Welch from Hastings a couple of freight trains. I'd put those two on my team any day against your cherry pickers.

[hockeytime40]

Interesting facts that I picked up reviewing the MGHCA website. These numbers are as of 1/13/08 and only as accurate as the MGHCA information. I pulled the top penalty minute players, used seniors only, and players with at least 10 points. This is a complete listing of all senior players that fell into the above criteria. Many of these players have a rap against them as being cheap and dirty type players. However it shows you the kind of players that the D1 programs are looking for. Big, strong, physical, aggresive to the puck, and willing to take a beating as well as give it.

60 minutes Andrea Green (Eden Prairie) going to Boston College
56 minutes Jessica Laurinitis (Wayzata) will play D1 not sure where yet!
52 minutes Lauren Smith (Holy Angels) going to Ohio State
50 minutes Monique Weber (Elk River) going to UConn
50 minutes Jac Daggit (Park Cottage Grove) going to SCSU
45 minutes Carey Hoffman (Mankato East) college hockey?
38 minutes Mikaela Mahoney (Buffalo) very nice player good enough to play D3 and maybe walk-on D1
38 minutes Brittany DeBoer (Spr Lake Park) not familiar with
38 minutes Liz Orke (Wayzata) going to Minnesota State Mankato
34 minutes Ariel Mackley (Burnsville) going to Minnesota State Mankato
32 minutes Montana Vichorek (Cloquet) going to Bemidji
32 minutes Tayler Broekemier (Crookston) not familiar with
32 minutes Kelsey Abrahamson (Simley) not familiar with
30 minutes Kelly Seeler (Eden Prairie) going to U of Minnesota
30 minutes Meaghan Brigl (Eastview) great soccer player!
28 minutes Kelsey Ketcher (Eden Prairie) will play D1 not sure where yet!

A total of 16 player listed. 8 have already made public their commitments to play D1 and 2 more I'm extremely confident will be playing D1 next year. So if everything works out as I'm expecting at least 62.5% of these top penalty takers will be playing at the highest level next year.

Just wanted to point out that there are many excellent players that do NOT take excessive penalties - fewer than 25 minutes total - who either are or will be going on to the next level:

Sarah Erickson of Benidji
Emily Erickson, Dana Gallop and Molly Arola of GRG
Sadie Lundquist of Cloquet
Sally Komarek and Margaret Chute of Blake
Kaylee Keys of CDH
Marlee Wheelhouse of Crookston
Becky Kortum, Jenna Peterson and Cara Johnson of Hopkins
Lauren Zrust of Blaine
Alex Nelson of Andover
Haylea Schmid of St. Francis
Kelsey Romatoski of Holy Angels
Meghan Lorence and Gina McDonald of Irondale
Emma Shields-Nordness and Ashley Duffy of BSM
Melissa Feste of Eden Prairie
Erin Babineau of Roseville
Danielle Welch of Hastings

This is just a partial list of some really good players who do not rack up a lot of penalties.

May want to adjust this list - one player had a game suspension after a penalty where she talked about doing it prior and then was sent out and could've really hurt the girl she checked...she had to skate off the rink and then couldn't play in the next game.

[Valley Eggroll]

The teams have been decided. Hanson will have the top 10 seniors in points with greater than 20 penalty minutes. Hansons Freightrain fantasy team is as follows:
Lauren Smith Holy Angels 62 points 54 PM
Katelyn Dold St. Cloud Tech 41 points 25PM
Monique Weber Elk River 38 points 50 PM
Kelly Seeler EP 34 points 34 PM
Meagan Brigl Eastview 33 points 32PM
Ann Schleper St. Cloud Icebreakers 33 points 24PM
Jessica Laurinaitis Wayzata 32 points 56PM
Rebecca Kent Elk River 30 points 24PM
Sam Scheving Warroad 28 points 22PM
Andrea Green Eden Prairie 28 points 60PM

Valley Eggroll Fast And Furious
Taylor Jenkins Austin 57points 12PM
Emily Erickson GRG 56points 0PM?
Kacy Ambroz New Prague 52points 16PM
Abby Williams Alex. 49 points 10PM
Jill Jacobs Marshall 48 points 18PM
Casey McMullen Mpls Novas 45 points 12PM
Marlee Wheelhouse Crookston 44 points 14PM
Kathryn DelZoppo 39 points 16PM
Rachel Ripley Farmington 38 points 14PM
Sara DeSaar Marshall 36 points 12PM

If anyone can figure out how to score these teams through playoffs, let us know. I think points are important, but wins are what counts. It has to be hard to win when your top points players are in the box. Also, as the playoffs get deeper, the odds of "running over a weaker skater" should not hold true.

[MNHockeyFan]

The teams have been decided. Hanson will have the top 10 seniors in points with greater than 20 penalty minutes. Hansons Freightrain fantasy team is as follows:
Lauren Smith Holy Angels 62 points 54 PM
Katelyn Dold St. Cloud Tech 41 points 25PM
Monique Weber Elk River 38 points 50 PM
Kelly Seeler EP 34 points 34 PM
Meagan Brigl Eastview 33 points 32PM
Ann Schleper St. Cloud Icebreakers 33 points 24PM
Jessica Laurinaitis Wayzata 32 points 56PM
Rebecca Kent Elk River 30 points 24PM
Sam Scheving Warroad 28 points 22PM
Andrea Green Eden Prairie 28 points 60PM

Valley Eggroll Fast And Furious
Taylor Jenkins Austin 57points 12PM
Emily Erickson GRG 56points 0PM?
Kacy Ambroz New Prague 52points 16PM
Abby Williams Alex. 49 points 10PM
Jill Jacobs Marshall 48 points 18PM
Casey McMullen Mpls Novas 45 points 12PM
Marlee Wheelhouse Crookston 44 points 14PM
Kathryn DelZoppo 39 points 16PM
Rachel Ripley Farmington 38 points 14PM
Sara DeSaar Marshall 36 points 12PM

If anyone can figure out how to score these teams through playoffs, let us know. I think points are important, but wins are what counts. It has to be hard to win when your top points players are in the box. Also, as the playoffs get deeper, the odds of "running over a weaker skater" should not hold true.

Valley, you've left some very excellent players off of your "Fast and Furious" team - see above list.

[pondhockey]

The teams have been decided. Hanson will have the top 10 seniors in points with greater than 20 penalty minutes. Hansons Freightrain fantasy team is as follows:
Lauren Smith Holy Angels 62 points 54 PM
Katelyn Dold St. Cloud Tech 41 points 25PM
Monique Weber Elk River 38 points 50 PM
Kelly Seeler EP 34 points 34 PM
Meagan Brigl Eastview 33 points 32PM
Ann Schleper St. Cloud Icebreakers 33 points 24PM
Jessica Laurinaitis Wayzata 32 points 56PM
Rebecca Kent Elk River 30 points 24PM
Sam Scheving Warroad 28 points 22PM
Andrea Green Eden Prairie 28 points 60PM

Valley Eggroll Fast And Furious
Taylor Jenkins Austin 57points 12PM
Emily Erickson GRG 56points 0PM?
Kacy Ambroz New Prague 52points 16PM
Abby Williams Alex. 49 points 10PM
Jill Jacobs Marshall 48 points 18PM
Casey McMullen Mpls Novas 45 points 12PM
Marlee Wheelhouse Crookston 44 points 14PM
Kathryn DelZoppo 39 points 16PM
Rachel Ripley Farmington 38 points 14PM
Sara DeSaar Marshall 36 points 12PM

If anyone can figure out how to score these teams through playoffs, let us know. I think points are important, but wins are what counts. It has to be hard to win when your top points players are in the box. Also, as the playoffs get deeper, the odds of "running over a weaker skater" should not hold true.

Who's in the net??

[southern-cross-check]

I find girls hockey interesting because of the finesse factor. Seemingly the girls game is meant to encourage honed athleticism vs unbridled enthusiasm.

Short of the occasional hook/trip to stop the lone break, there's no decent reason for justifying penalty minutes in my book.

Those who rack up the penalty minutes are downright sloppy.



"Ride the nine, or ride the pine" -- Tom Mutch

[gopher9]

The teams have been decided. Hanson will have the top 10 seniors in points with greater than 20 penalty minutes. Hansons Freightrain fantasy team is as follows:
Lauren Smith Holy Angels 62 points 54 PM
Katelyn Dold St. Cloud Tech 41 points 25PM
Monique Weber Elk River 38 points 50 PM
Kelly Seeler EP 34 points 34 PM
Meagan Brigl Eastview 33 points 32PM
Ann Schleper St. Cloud Icebreakers 33 points 24PM
Jessica Laurinaitis Wayzata 32 points 56PM
Rebecca Kent Elk River 30 points 24PM
Sam Scheving Warroad 28 points 22PM
Andrea Green Eden Prairie 28 points 60PM

Valley Eggroll Fast And Furious
Taylor Jenkins Austin 57points 12PM
Emily Erickson GRG 56points 0PM?
Kacy Ambroz New Prague 52points 16PM
Abby Williams Alex. 49 points 10PM
Jill Jacobs Marshall 48 points 18PM
Casey McMullen Mpls Novas 45 points 12PM
Marlee Wheelhouse Crookston 44 points 14PM
Kathryn DelZoppo 39 points 16PM
Rachel Ripley Farmington 38 points 14PM
Sara DeSaar Marshall 36 points 12PM

If anyone can figure out how to score these teams through playoffs, let us know. I think points are important, but wins are what counts. It has to be hard to win when your top points players are in the box. Also, as the playoffs get deeper, the odds of "running over a weaker skater" should not hold true.

This is a no brainer!!!! Hanson's team would destroy valley's!

[BCGHockey]

Hanson I'm with you and I would take your freight trainers all day everyday! Couldn't agree more gogher9, the game wouldn't be close, easily a 4 goal difference.

[hockeya1a]

points PIM Av PIM per game
Lauren Smith 62 54 3.00
Katelyn Dold 41 25 1.39
Monique Weber 38 50 2.78
Kelly Seeler 34 34 1.89
Meagan Brigl 33 32 1.78
Ann Schleper 33 24 1.33
Jessica Laurinaitis 32 56 3.11
Rebecca Kent 30 24 1.33
Sam Scheving 28 22 1.22
Andrea Green 28 60 3.33
359 381 21.17

Valley Eggroll Fast And Furious
Taylor Jenkins 57 12 0.67
Emily Erickson 56 0 0.00
Kacy Ambroz 52 16 0.89
Abby Williams 49 10 0.56
Jill Jacobs 48 18 1.00
Casey McMullen 45 12 0.67
Marlee Wheelhouse 44 14 0.78
Kathryn DelZoppo 39 16 0.89
Rachel Ripley 38 14 0.78
Sara DeSaar 36 12 0.67
464 124 6.89

Looking at the numbers it looks like eggroll would win in points alone.
Not to mention the Freighttrainers would have to play short handed for an additional 14 minutes out of a 51 minute game.

[keepitreal]

The teams have been decided. Hanson will have the top 10 seniors in points with greater than 20 penalty minutes.
If anyone can figure out how to score these teams through playoffs, let us know. I think points are important, but wins are what counts. It has to be hard to win when your top points players are in the box. Also, as the playoffs get deeper, the odds of "running over a weaker skater" should not hold true.

Between MNHockeyFan's handicapping threads and the girls goon fantasy league there could be a real cottage gambling industry starting up here. Just need to get that offshore betting site enabled