Referee Experiences

[nahc]

Games at all levels are truly influenced by the quality of refereeing. With high quality refs, one hardly knows they are on the ice. They keep the game flowing, call the penalties, and make the games fun to watch, coach, and participate. Age and experience don't seem to matter.

These comments are meant to start the conversation.

Thoughts?

[Goalmouth]

Before you respond, be reminded that 1 we are short of refs. 2 they take way more abuse than they should and that is why you need to refer back to 1 ... Refs are human plain and simple they have thier good days and thier bad days, thier line of sight differs from that in the stands or on the bench, a ref may appear great one game and the next seem to suck. The vision of the ref is often a mirror of the game itself. A poorly played disfunctional game, regardless of skill level, or a well played good fllowing game, regardless of skill level, will cast a refs shadow off that mirror every time. And yes a ref can help or hurt the flow of a game at times, but the flow usually takes care of itself, after all it's the players who make the refs hand go up or stay down.

[greybeard58]

Remember the referee's see 10 skaters and the change every minute or so and the rest of the time they are with the coach so who really can control the players. The referees react to what the players are doing. Unfortunately they take way to much abuse by the crowd and some coaches.

[inthestands]

I wish all parents and coaches could watch a game from the ice, as well as the stands.

I wish all coaches parents could wear a striped jersey and try to call a game fairly.

I wish all officials could try to coach a team.

I wish all officials could have a child playing hockey, and watch from the stands.

If all these things could happen.... we would have a lot less complaining, speculation, turn over of coaches, young officials, and young hockey players..

[Night Train]

So much of the discussion regarding refs, on this post and others, is in regards to style of play that is taught and reinforced by the coaches.

The game is hockey and it's played with a puck and two hands on the stick to control the puck.

When you drop a hand from the stick you are no longer attempting to play the puck. I've seen refs use that interpretation and the coaches and crowd weren't happy. The refs can do whatever they want so learn how to play the game correctly instead of fussing like an undisciplined nut. Your lack of discipline rubs off on kids.

Did you watch the Wild play Calgary on Wednesday night? Almost no hitting. Why? No time. You try and hit someone and you're out of the play.

Kids should be taught to check the hands and win possession of the puck not attempt to injure their opponent.

How about zero penalties, now that's a hockey game. Try beating a stronger opponent shorthanded. Can't be done. Your only chance is to skate hard, short shifts, get shots and stay out of the box.

Get a penalty, sit a shift. Get a second and sit the period. Get a third and you're done for the night (that's the rule in some districts) Kids would rather play than sit so they'll learn real quickly.

Parents, and coaches for that matter, yelling "hit him" don't even understand how the game is played.

I enjoy some hitting and physical play but within the context of playing the game. Moving the puck, getting open, getting shots and playing 5 on 5. That's hockey. It's a skill game.

[tomASS]

Great post Night Train - the game you do not notice the referees is the game where the players are truly focused on playing the game.

[woodley]

This is a 2-way street. (I both ref and coach). A good ref realizes that he only sees part of the ice. A good coach realizes that a ref only sees a part of the ice!!

The key to this is decent communication between the refs, the players and the coaches. Most coaches are perfectly understanding if a ref is willing to admit he's human. Huge mileage in stopping by the bench and admitting you blew a call, but once the whistle blows (i.e. quick freeze that comes out, missed offsides, etc) the play is done.

Just remember, the game is not about the refs or the coaches, the game is about the kids!! Do your best and the rest will work itself out.

[nahc]

Do refs need to have thicker skins? I very much appreciate that refs receive a lot of on ice feedback and most of it is probably not positive!! Having said that, to me, refs need to be almost deaf when on the ice. Hockey is the only sport where fans are directed to sit back and watch. Refs have the power to boot fans from a rink which I totally disagree with. As long as nothing is thrown on the ice, etc to truly be a danger to the kids, a LOUD rink is unbelieveable!!!! Lots of emotion in each and every game which is GOOD!!!!

A questionable calls receives feedback. That is part of everyday life whether it be on the job, family life, etc..

[inthestands]

Lots of good feed back in this thread.

Since this started in the "youth hockey" section, let's remember USA hockey has a zero tolerance policy in place. This puts the officials in a precarious position. Since the game is for the kids, which I think we all can agree on, these same kids are officiating many of these youth games.

I see it over and over again, Squirt, PeeWee and Bantam coaches "working" young officials over. In addition to this, we have some youth coaches critique every line play and player falling for any reason. This is the main reason more than half of young first year officials quit to go flip burgers at the local food place in their town.

nahc askes "should refs have thicker skin?". Personally, in youth hockey there shouldn't be a need for that. If you get to the upper level bantams and high school that is a different story.

The only time I've seen a parent asked to leave an arena, it was warranted. They were making a mockery of the game and being an embarrasment to their family and team.

I think the fans deserve to cheer, boo, offer feedback all they want. When they step over the line determined by the officials, arena personell or tournament directors, have that option to escort them out. That too is part of everyday life, be it on the job, family life, ect....

[jackstraw]

Couldn't disagree more with that statement, I wish more fans would get booted. Hockey is a very adrenalinated sport, the fans feel it too. Ugly things happen when fans, coaches or players start disrespecting the authority of the ref. When adults, being the fans or coaches start going to town on the refs, kids feel enabled to do the same, not good. Talking to people who have been around the game for long periods of time, there is a concensus that things seem to be getting worse. Maybe this is true of all youth sports, hockey is this forums theme. During a B Bantam tourney this year, a fan tried to physically accost a ref coming off the rink. I have seen fans badgering opposing coaches. So many other goofy things go on. Back to the original point, NO, refs shouldn't just get a thicker skin.

[nahc]

"The Authority of the Refs"........that is where things to me get muddled. Refs should have the authority to control what happens on the ICE, not in the arena. That responsibility belongs to the town, association, or whoever is hosting the event. I disagree with having refs toss fans. If fans get that obnoxious, and I agree this does happen, arena officials should take care of the matter. I don't agree with a lot of things that USA hockey dictates but we play in their club so need to follow the rules.

There is NO place in hockey or any sport for intimidation, physical contact or any other action that would make a ref, coach, player parent, family member, or any other spectator become fearful before, during or after a game. I don't think verbally disagreeing with a refs call during a game falls into this category........

We also certainly don't need these types of actions with our younger officials and actions should be taken immediately by the other official, if possible, to put a stop to abuse, etc of these newer refs.

[Pens4]

Great posts...Coaches, players and fans need to repect the officials. Understand that for every call made, half the building isn't going to like it. Some will be good calls other bad.

But we also need to expect more from our officials. This is a paid and trained position. They are the only professionals on the ice and should be held to a higher standard than current levels. As coaches, we shouldn't have to cringe when they see certain linesman covering the prior game...roll out with the stripes on. There shouldn't be that much history of bad officiating. On the same token, many times were happy when we see who is calling the game.

Maybe its the shortfall as mentioned earlier. Maybe its the training or USA hockey's footprint but......??? We need to get out of our officials.

[theref]

Do refs need to have thicker skins? I very much appreciate that refs receive a lot of on ice feedback and most of it is probably not positive!! Having said that, to me, refs need to be almost deaf when on the ice. Hockey is the only sport where fans are directed to sit back and watch. Refs have the power to boot fans from a rink which I totally disagree with. As long as nothing is thrown on the ice, etc to truly be a danger to the kids, a LOUD rink is unbelieveable!!!! Lots of emotion in each and every game which is GOOD!!!!

A questionable calls receives feedback. That is part of everyday life whether it be on the job, family life, etc..

It's not the fans privledge to give feedback to a referee. Fans are there to cheer for their team, not critique us on our jobs. Think about that next time you go to your job. Maybe you'd like a cheering section there telling you that you are an idiot or that you don't know what your talking about and perhaps you'll have a different perspective. As for seeing this in hockey and not in other sports, hockey fans can tend to be a lot more disrespecful to officials than in other sports.

[Mr. Bo Dangles]

Arena officials should not have to babysit fans. A questionable call can receive feedback, but when the feedback crosses the line it is time to shut up and maybe leave.

[Can't Never Tried]

When we win the refs were great, when we lose.. well the refs were bad

It's been like that forever, and has nothing to do with the refs at all.
No one likes to lose, it exposes our weaknesses, and makes us reflect on the fact that someone out there is working harder then we are, but with the passion in this game to be the best and get noticed, we rarely take it upon ourselves to say we got out worked, and we certainly are not going to tell our little Timmy's that it was their lack of effort or that they were better then us.

So we say the refs were bad! and find any little thing to focus that blame away from our own.

I have told people this little story before...We went to a game once where both teams showed up and were ready to go...but the refs didn't show up and the game was going to be canceled.
But as both teams were headed back to the locker rooms disappointed, and parents all upset, low and behold the refs showed up. (schedule error)
You would have thought these guys were the best thing that ever happened, people actually cheered when they hit the ice, because what was most important was actually playing the game, and not how it was called.

It's funny to think about what it would be like if the refs showed the same disrespect for the parents and coaches as they are dealt.

The old saying goes "You don't miss the water-till the well goes dry".

Take time to say thanks to them, even when you want to say something else...because we all need them!

[Lowstickside]

What is most frustrating to me about officials, at least in the metro traveling leagues, is the inconsistancy. Why is the game dictated by what referee you have or what district the referee is from. You can play a game in D6 and your team will have 8-10 penalties, and then go somewhere else, play the same game, and your team will have 2 penalties in that game. Are the kids playing differently? Of corse not. Fustrating for the parents and coaches, and confusing for the players.
How about just making the same calls for the same infractions regardless of who the team is, who the coach is, what the score happens to be and where the game is played. How about all the referees getting on the same page!

[nahc]

More and more at games, it doesn't matter if a team wins or loses, most spectators agree across the board whether or not the officials did a good job or not. I can't tell you how many times I've been standing/sitting next to an opposing players family member, a bad call is made against my team and the family member states what a bad call that was. Spectators want to see good officiating in every game........no homers, refs making calls way out of position when their partners are right on top of the play and don't call anything, consistancy, consistancy, consistancy across all officials..........which is extremely difficult.........

I do have an off the wall comment. We've joked about being able to call the game in the stands and wondered if this has ever been attempted? Being up off the ice makes a big differance in what is seen.......I know, totally a nutzy idea but I think it could be done quite well by our zebras!!

Lastly, officials are paid by the spectators by direct (association fees) or indirect (ie gate receipts) methods. I think that does give the spectators a right to voice their opions..........since the refs actually work for the spectators........

[inthestands]

What is most frustrating to me about officials, at least in the metro traveling leagues, is the inconsistancy. Why is the game dictated by what referee you have or what district the referee is from. You can play a game in D6 and your team will have 8-10 penalties, and then go somewhere else, play the same game, and your team will have 2 penalties in that game. Are the kids playing differently? Of corse not. Fustrating for the parents and coaches, and confusing for the players.
How about just making the same calls for the same infractions regardless of who the team is, who the coach is, what the score happens to be and where the game is played. How about all the referees getting on the same page!

You should send in your thoughts on how to get that accomplished working with people ranging in ages from 13 to 65 years old, coming from all walks of life. I'm confident the USA hockey organization would benefit from your insight.

"Lastly, officials are paid by the spectators by direct (association fees) or indirect (ie gate receipts) methods. I think that does give the spectators a right to voice their opions..........since the refs actually work for the spectators........"

I hope you were joking? Your fees pay for your child to play hockey, not for you to complain about officiating, coaching, or playing time.

[Lowstickside]

You should send in your thoughts on how to get that accomplished working with people ranging in ages from 13 to 65 years old, coming from all walks of life. I'm confident the USA hockey organization would benefit from your insight.

Or mybe we can just say it is too hard and give up, like you apparently have.

[hockeyfan40]

Well I have an experience from the penalty box for you all. While running the doors in a squirt b game. There were kids from both team in the box. I was chatting with one of them when the fans got really loud about a call or non-call. Not that it mattered. I said to one of the kids that the fans were kind of loud. His responce was YEAH and Unfortunatly two of the are MINE!!!!!!!!! I had to take a double take and said what did you just say. He repeated himself. So let that be a thought.

[tomASS]

It's not the fans privledge to give feedback to a referee. Fans are there to cheer for their team, not critique us on our jobs. Think about that next time you go to your job. Maybe you'd like a cheering section there telling you that you are an idiot or that you don't know what your talking about and perhaps you'll have a different perspective. As for seeing this in hockey and not in other sports, hockey fans can tend to be a lot more disrespecful to officials than in other sports.

Another poster mentioned about the parents too. Canada use to have some great commercials on this stuff that did a funny twist on the situation - one I remember was a father golfing with his kid from off the green harassing him while he tried to putt. I could see a great one being made using refs example here.

[inthestands]

You should send in your thoughts on how to get that accomplished working with people ranging in ages from 13 to 65 years old, coming from all walks of life. I'm confident the USA hockey organization would benefit from your insight.

Or mybe we can just say it is too hard and give up, like you apparently have.

I haven't given up on anything. Just trying to be realistic in what we can expect from such a diverse group of people trying to make consistent calls during a youth hockey game.

[Lowstickside]

You should send in your thoughts on how to get that accomplished working with people ranging in ages from 13 to 65 years old, coming from all walks of life. I'm confident the USA hockey organization would benefit from your insight.

Or mybe we can just say it is too hard and give up, like you apparently have.

I haven't given up on anything. Just trying to be realistic in what we can expect from such a diverse group of people trying to make consistent calls during a youth hockey game.

I appreciate what you are saying. Take the four corners; parents, coaches, players, and referees. The refs have the most influence on a game, as they control and run what happens. A diverse group, no doubt, and what a great opportunity for anyone interested in officiating hockey. However, once they put on the stripes, I really don't care how old they are or where thay come from. I just want them to call a fair game without being an influencing factor.

[inthestands]

You should send in your thoughts on how to get that accomplished working with people ranging in ages from 13 to 65 years old, coming from all walks of life. I'm confident the USA hockey organization would benefit from your insight.

Or mybe we can just say it is too hard and give up, like you apparently have.

I haven't given up on anything. Just trying to be realistic in what we can expect from such a diverse group of people trying to make consistent calls during a youth hockey game.

I appreciate what you are saying. Take the four corners; parents, coaches, players, and referees. The refs have the most influence on a game, as they control and run what happens. A diverse group, no doubt, and what a great opportunity for anyone interested in officiating hockey. However, once they put on the stripes, I really don't care how old they are or where thay come from. I just want them to call a fair game without being an influencing factor.

From what I've seen, the officials goal when putting on the stripes is just what you are wishing for.

I think many people have the same feeling as your thoughts above. It's unfortunate that the people "officials" having the least amount of time involved related to how the kids see hockey, are given the ultimate responsibility in making sure this experience is positive...

Think about the equation. Parents have the biggest window to determine what the experience is going to be by sheer time around the player. Coaches come next, with multiple practices per week, games, tournaments, as well as team get togethers, and then come the officials. They get these players in most cases 1 hour per every couple of weeks if we are talking about local, and even less if we are talking about travel situations.

The players at our house understand hockey is what "WE" make it, not what someone else let's it be. If the officials are marginal, which happens, they are marginal for both teams. Is it frustrating, you bet. Are we going to sit in the stands making idiots of ourselves, maybe once in a while but hopefully we keep things in perspective.

Officials and coaches are no different than players. They are on the ice because they love the game of hockey. Just because they don't meet the expecations of parent groups doesn't make them poor officials.

I'll bet some of the attitudes would change if your child was the player on the ice with a black and white striped officials jersey and whistle.... I've never seen a player have a perfect game. I've never witnessed an official call one. At the final buzzer, more times than not, both have done their best even if they haven't met with the fans approval.

[theref]

I haven't given up on anything. Just trying to be realistic in what we can expect from such a diverse group of people trying to make consistent calls during a youth hockey game.

I appreciate what you are saying. Take the four corners; parents, coaches, players, and referees. The refs have the most influence on a game, as they control and run what happens. A diverse group, no doubt, and what a great opportunity for anyone interested in officiating hockey. However, once they put on the stripes, I really don't care how old they are or where thay come from. I just want them to call a fair game without being an influencing factor.

From what I've seen, the officials goal when putting on the stripes is just what you are wishing for.

I think many people have the same feeling as your thoughts above. It's unfortunate that the people "officials" having the least amount of time involved related to how the kids see hockey, are given the ultimate responsibility in making sure this experience is positive...

Think about the equation. Parents have the biggest window to determine what the experience is going to be by sheer time around the player. Coaches come next, with multiple practices per week, games, tournaments, as well as team get togethers, and then come the officials. They get these players in most cases 1 hour per every couple of weeks if we are talking about local, and even less if we are talking about travel situations.

The players at our house understand hockey is what "WE" make it, not what someone else let's it be. If the officials are marginal, which happens, they are marginal for both teams. Is it frustrating, you bet. Are we going to sit in the stands making idiots of ourselves, maybe once in a while but hopefully we keep things in perspective.

Officials and coaches are no different than players. They are on the ice because they love the game of hockey. Just because they don't meet the expecations of parent groups doesn't make them poor officials.

I'll bet some of the attitudes would change if your child was the player on the ice with a black and white striped officials jersey and whistle.... I've never seen a player have a perfect game. I've never witnessed an official call one. At the final buzzer, more times than not, both have done their best even if they haven't met with the fans approval.