Referee Experiences

[RLStars]

I think it would be extremely interesting to see how many parents and coaches would pass the officials test that is manditory to become certified every year from USA Hockey.

Maybe a part of the coaches certification process should be they take the officials test for the level team they are coaching. A Bantam coach must take the Level 3 Officials test, Peewee coach must take the Level 2 Officials exam etc.

How many coaches do you think actually open up the rule book (or even have one) and read what it says?

[elliott70]

I think it would be extremely interesting to see how many parents and coaches would pass the officials test that is manditory to become certified every year from USA Hockey.

Maybe a part of the coaches certification process should be they take the officials test for the level team they are coaching. A Bantam coach must take the Level 3 Officials test, Peewee coach must take the Level 2 Officials exam etc.

How many coaches do you think actually open up the rule book (or even have one) and read what it says?

maybe 50%

[inthestands]

RL, my opinion is most coaches know the basic rules. Even if they had a clear understanding of each rule, you still have to interpet the rule fairly and evenly. Most parents on the other hand do not have the rules knowledge.

For the parents and coaches, that is next to impossible. They have a stake in the outcome of the game. They have a specific player or set of players to watch.

Officials have to watch everything on the ice during the game, as well as keep track of the benches and minor officials department. Ice level view is much different than what people see in the stands, not to mention if you have a specific player or team to watch, you are going to see things differently than someone watching the overall play.

I'm not making excuses for poor game calling, or inconsistent officiating. Just pointing out a few of the differences between watching a game and officiating one.

[2pipesnin]

Knowing the rules is our only upper hand on coaches!!
Good coaches and good referees are hard to come by......basically they are both volunteer positions that require minimal class or instructional time (refs are probably paid better then coaches) each get 4 to 6 hours of instruction a year. However, the only way you acquire a good coach or good referee is over time with experience. My experience with poor refereeing or coaching has been with young adults (I have done both for many years). The 12 through 18 year old referees will get better with time. The 17 to 25 year old coaches may also get better, but this is where I see the biggest source of referee complaining. The 17 to 25 year old coaches don’t seem to understand that their attitudes and comments coming off the bench effect the way their team performs. This last weekend in a tournament I saw more coaches being ejected from the game than I ever had. 80% were young coaches (under 25 yrs old) that could not control their emotions. The other 20% were dad’s coaching that maybe should sit in the stands and watch the games. Anyway, my point is that good coaches and good referees come with time. Those that have the right temperaments will stay with it and do well, while others hopefully will step away. And then you will have some good ones that will step away because they just don’t want to put up with the criticism (coaching or refereeing) I give them both credit for wanting to help kids play the greatest game! Now lets cut the referees some slack.
My 2 cents.

[RLStars]

RL, my opinion is most coaches know the basic rules. Even if they had a clear understanding of each rule, you still have to interpet the rule fairly and evenly. Most parents on the other hand do not have the rules knowledge.

For the parents and coaches, that is next to impossible. They have a stake in the outcome of the game. They have a specific player or set of players to watch.

Officials have to watch everything on the ice during the game, as well as keep track of the benches and minor officials department. Ice level view is much different than what people see in the stands, not to mention if you have a specific player or team to watch, you are going to see things differently than someone watching the overall play.

I'm not making excuses for poor game calling, or inconsistent officiating. Just pointing out a few of the differences between watching a game and officiating one.

I'm not quite sure if you bothered reading my two long winded posts on page two of this thread and if you did, how you could think I was somehow unaware of the differences in viewing the game from the stands, bench area and the ice?

I have officiated some scrimmages, even HS level scrimmages, and had my level one certification, and I know very well that it is not easy. I have coached for many years and know how it looks from the bench. I now watch from the stands as my son plays HS hockey.

I'm under the opinion that if a person thinks its easy to make that split second call (which I don't believe you do), they should go and get certified and try officiating a few games. Make sure that its not just mites and squirts, there is not alot of official bashing in those games.

I have also given a couple of suggestions on ways to make more people aware of the differnces in what is witnessed during a game from different vantage points.

My point about having the coaches take the officials exam comes from experience. Just this weekend I was working as a minor official when the referee called a defensive player for interference. It was obvious to me as I watched it that it was a good call (IMO) but the coach wanted an explanation (which he was entitled to ask for). The explanation was given that the offensive player dumped the puck to the boards and attempted to skate wide around the defensemen towards the outside. The puck ended up behind the net. The defensemen skated towards the boards also and knocked the player down, then turned and skated towards the net to retrieve the puck. The official told the coach that since his player skated to his left (towards the boards) and the puck was on his right (towards the net) he was skating outside his established path or a path that would take him to the puck. Sounded like a good explanation to me, but not so good to the coach (I'll give him credit, he wasn't too upset over it). I'd bet that if he was scouting his next oponent and watched it happen, he would have agreed with the call.

To all the officials out there that do their best to be impartial and call um as they see um, thanks.

[inthestands]

RL, I did read your complete response and wasn't questioning what your thoughts and ideas were. I apologize if my response was confusing.

Just making some points in the post for information purposes, and not to differ one way or the other from your opinion to mine. I think we are on similar pages as it relates to this topic.

One point I wanted to clarify was, if the coaches had a better understanding of the rules they would still need to apply those rules in a manner that would be difficult for a coach or parent to do so. Nothing more.

For the most part we've all seen a lot of support for the people that enjoy spending time at the rink for one reason or another. That's nice to see.

[Reggie]

My only gripe against officials is with those that make it their duty to screw one team..

Are you serious? Do you really thing that an official goes on the ice and says "Hmmm... I think I am going to go after that team tonight?"

I some cases YES!

[Reggie]

I think it would be extremely interesting to see how many parents and coaches would pass the officials test that is manditory to become certified every year from USA Hockey.

Maybe a part of the coaches certification process should be they take the officials test for the level team they are coaching. A Bantam coach must take the Level 3 Officials test, Peewee coach must take the Level 2 Officials exam etc.

How many coaches do you think actually open up the rule book (or even have one) and read what it says?

Come on, don't make it sound like the tests are that hard, If so why are there so many clueless refs and how many refs actually know 75% of the rules and they have to own a rule book. There are many good refs out there, but many more poor ones!

[inthestands]

I think it would be extremely interesting to see how many parents and coaches would pass the officials test that is manditory to become certified every year from USA Hockey.

Maybe a part of the coaches certification process should be they take the officials test for the level team they are coaching. A Bantam coach must take the Level 3 Officials test, Peewee coach must take the Level 2 Officials exam etc.

How many coaches do you think actually open up the rule book (or even have one) and read what it says?

Come on, don't make it sound like the tests are that hard, If so why are there so many clueless refs and how many refs actually know 75% of the rules and they have to own a rule book. There are many good refs out there, but many more poor ones!

Reggie, how about some facts and figures to back up your opinions?

Where do all these clueless officials work?

How percent of officials are good? How do you determine what good is?

How many different arenas have you been to in an effort to gather all this data to base your negative opinions on? Were you watching or playing?

Have you ever taken the USA or any other officials test?

Just wondering...

[Reggie]

I think it would be extremely interesting to see how many parents and coaches would pass the officials test that is manditory to become certified every year from USA Hockey.

Maybe a part of the coaches certification process should be they take the officials test for the level team they are coaching. A Bantam coach must take the Level 3 Officials test, Peewee coach must take the Level 2 Officials exam etc.

How many coaches do you think actually open up the rule book (or even have one) and read what it says?

Come on, don't make it sound like the tests are that hard, If so why are there so many clueless refs and how many refs actually know 75% of the rules and they have to own a rule book. There are many good refs out there, but many more poor ones!

Reggie, how about some facts and figures to back up your opinions?

Where do all these clueless officials work?

How percent of officials are good? How do you determine what good is?

How many different arenas have you been to in an effort to gather all this data to base your negative opinions on? Were you watching or playing?

Have you ever taken the USA or any other officials test?

Just wondering...

I've been around the game close to 30 years, playing, reffing,coaching, and volunteering. I can write a book on mindless refering.

[spin-o-rama]

At your next game add up all the missed passes, muffed shots, offsides, bad line changes, blown defensive zone coverages, sticks not on the ice, etc, etc.
Then add up the blown ref calls.
Refs do much better at their job than players. Maybe they should be the ones complaining.

Why people expect nhl caliber reffing for youth level hockey is beyond me.

[cutanddrive]

At your next game add up all the missed passes, muffed shots, offsides, bad line changes, blown defensive zone coverages, sticks not on the ice, etc, etc.
Then add up the blown ref calls.
Refs do much better at their job than players. Maybe they should be the ones complaining.

Why people expect nhl caliber reffing for youth level hockey is beyond me.

Great post!

[Reggie]

At your next game add up all the missed passes, muffed shots, offsides, bad line changes, blown defensive zone coverages, sticks not on the ice, etc, etc.
Then add up the blown ref calls.
Refs do much better at their job than players. Maybe they should be the ones complaining.

Why people expect nhl caliber reffing for youth level hockey is beyond me.

Ya great post, but it's not about the refs, it's about the players, i don't go to games to watch the refs and I hope the refs do a better job there is 2 or 3 of them and 12 players who's going to make more mistakes. YOU do the math, plus there getting PAID. 4 some its a job! Do you like going to work?

[inthestands]

Come on, don't make it sound like the tests are that hard, If so why are there so many clueless refs and how many refs actually know 75% of the rules and they have to own a rule book. There are many good refs out there, but many more poor ones!

Reggie, how about some facts and figures to back up your opinions?

Where do all these clueless officials work?

How percent of officials are good? How do you determine what good is?

How many different arenas have you been to in an effort to gather all this data to base your negative opinions on? Were you watching or playing?

Have you ever taken the USA or any other officials test?

Just wondering...

I've been around the game close to 30 years, playing, reffing,coaching, and volunteering. I can write a book on mindless refering.

Quantity "30 years" doesn't always mean quality.

I've been around the game in a similar capacity to you, only longer and have had much more positive experiences.

Just an opinion, but your response looks like a cop out to me.

I'll consider my kids fortunate they didn't have you for a coach or official since all the mindless situations appear to have been following you for those 30 years....

[spin-o-rama]

Ya great post, but it's not about the refs, it's about the players, i don't go to games to watch the refs and I hope the refs do a better job there is 2 or 3 of them and 12 players who's going to make more mistakes. YOU do the math, plus they're getting PAID. 4 some it's a job! Do you like going to work?

Do you scream, rant, and rave at people at a store and justify it because they are getting paid? Here's a hint - that's not what they are being paid for!

I enjoy going to work for my good clients. Clients/potential clients who are difficult to work for (complaining, unrealistic expectations, etc) receive much higher prices to make it worth my while. I call it my bellyaching markup.

Try this at your next game. Give the ref $100 pregame and tell him it is an apology in advance for your poor temper. If he accepts it then you know your "difficulty" markup. If he refuses it then you really know something!

[2pipesnin]

Reggie.....I invite you to go take the Refereeing test…it’s easy you said it yourself. (online, open book maybe 80 - 100 questions) Then sign up for the seminar, it’s required. You should have no problem following along (2 hours class room and 2 hours on the ice) considering of course you can skate (I am making an assumption here). Them borrow a refereeing shirt and whistle from one of your reffing friends (you would be better off just buy one) and go ref a PeeWee A or Bantam A game. And make sure you tell us when and where you are reffing, because we would love to come watch and grade your performance.
Good luck!

My advise, when you watch a hockey game, watch the players not the refs. You will have a more enjoyable experience. Unless of course you are the dad that is all over your kid before, during and after the game but never played a period of hockey in his life. Then, just stay home and let you kid enjoy the game of hockey.

[RLStars]

I think it would be extremely interesting to see how many parents and coaches would pass the officials test that is manditory to become certified every year from USA Hockey.

Maybe a part of the coaches certification process should be they take the officials test for the level team they are coaching. A Bantam coach must take the Level 3 Officials test, Peewee coach must take the Level 2 Officials exam etc.

How many coaches do you think actually open up the rule book (or even have one) and read what it says?

Come on, don't make it sound like the tests are that hard, If so why are there so many clueless refs and how many refs actually know 75% of the rules and they have to own a rule book. There are many good refs out there, but many more poor ones!

When was the last time you officiated a game? When was the last time you took the officiating test?

How about next year I send you the open book test for level three officials and see if you pass, or better yet, sign up and take them for yourself? Officials also take a closed book test at the required seminar.

I would also like to come and watch you officate a peewee or bantam A game next year, let us know when you get a game scheduled so we can observe your reffing excellence in action.

*edit for spelling

[Reggie]

Ya great post, but it's not about the refs, it's about the players, i don't go to games to watch the refs and I hope the refs do a better job there is 2 or 3 of them and 12 players who's going to make more mistakes. YOU do the math, plus they're getting PAID. 4 some it's a job! Do you like going to work?

Do you scream, rant, and rave at people at a store and justify it because they are getting paid? Here's a hint - that's not what they are being paid for!

I enjoy going to work for my good clients. Clients/potential clients who are difficult to work for (complaining, unrealistic expectations, etc) receive much higher prices to make it worth my while. I call it my bellyaching markup.

Try this at your next game. Give the ref $100 pregame and tell him it is an apology in advance for your poor temper. If he accepts it then you know your "difficulty" markup. If he refuses it then you really know something!

WHAT?

[Reggie]

I think it would be extremely interesting to see how many parents and coaches would pass the officials test that is manditory to become certified every year from USA Hockey.

Maybe a part of the coaches certification process should be they take the officials test for the level team they are coaching. A Bantam coach must take the Level 3 Officials test, Peewee coach must take the Level 2 Officials exam etc.

How many coaches do you think actually open up the rule book (or even have one) and read what it says?

Come on, don't make it sound like the tests are that hard, If so why are there so many clueless refs and how many refs actually know 75% of the rules and they have to own a rule book. There are many good refs out there, but many more poor ones!

When was the last time you officiated a game? When was the last time you took the officiating test?

How about next year I send you the open book test for level three officials and see if you pass, or better yet, sign up and take them for yourself? Officials also take a closed book test at the required seminar.

I would also like to come and watch you officate a peewee or bantam A game next year, let us know when you get a game scheduled so we can observe your reffing excellence in action.

*edit for spelling

I was the one sitting next to you and you were copying my paper.

[Reggie]

Reggie.....I invite you to go take the Refereeing test…it’s easy you said it yourself. (online, open book maybe 80 - 100 questions) Then sign up for the seminar, it’s required. You should have no problem following along (2 hours class room and 2 hours on the ice) considering of course you can skate (I am making an assumption here). Them borrow a refereeing shirt and whistle from one of your reffing friends (you would be better off just buy one) and go ref a PeeWee A or Bantam A game. And make sure you tell us when and where you are reffing, because we would love to come watch and grade your performance.
Good luck!

My advise, when you watch a hockey game, watch the players not the refs. You will have a more enjoyable experience. Unless of course you are the dad that is all over your kid before, during and after the game but never played a period of hockey in his life. Then, just stay home and let you kid enjoy the game of hockey.

Your why off with your assumption, but try again this is fun.

[RLStars]

Come on, don't make it sound like the tests are that hard, If so why are there so many clueless refs and how many refs actually know 75% of the rules and they have to own a rule book. There are many good refs out there, but many more poor ones!

When was the last time you officiated a game? When was the last time you took the officiating test?

How about next year I send you the open book test for level three officials and see if you pass, or better yet, sign up and take them for yourself? Officials also take a closed book test at the required seminar.

I would also like to come and watch you officate a peewee or bantam A game next year, let us know when you get a game scheduled so we can observe your reffing excellence in action.

*edit for spelling

I was the one sitting next to you and you were copying my paper.

Must be why I failed the first time. I thought grey hair meant wisdom

[inthestands]

Reggie, just a couple things.

1 How about you have someone close to you help with that chip on your shoulder.

2 Once you have #1 taken care of, run along to youth basket ball or wrestling so you are not so frustrated with all the negative aspects that seem to have followed you through your 30 year career in hockey.

[theref]

Ahh leave Reggie alone, he's just an ignorant pot-stirrer.

I've always had this thought when I officiate a game (I have 12 years experience, so I've been to a few games):

At any given game I do, approximately 95% of the crowd is ignorant, biased, or uneducated. The other 5% just keep their voices low because they either know how the game works (that mistakes are sometimes made) or that the referee is actually right.

Wonder which percentage Reggie falls in?

[theref]

At your next game add up all the missed passes, muffed shots, offsides, bad line changes, blown defensive zone coverages, sticks not on the ice, etc, etc.
Then add up the blown ref calls.
Refs do much better at their job than players. Maybe they should be the ones complaining.

Why people expect nhl caliber reffing for youth level hockey is beyond me.

Spin, just wanted to tell you that I really liked this post. Found it very thought provoking, especially that last line.

Couldn't agree more.

[2pipesnin]

Reggie, So you Can't SKATE.

That pretty much explains everything!

Well MR. armchair player, coach, over zealous Dad and referee Extraordinaire!

Good Luck!