What would you do?

[odnor]

Your team is playing in the championship game at one of the Christmas tournaments. Your third line is weak; it has only scored one goal in 14 games, that goal was tipped in by the other team. The majority of the goals scored on your team occurred when the third line was playing.

Less than two minutes into the game, the third line is sent out. Player A gets a hooking penalty 10 seconds into the shift. Later in the first period the third line is sent out again for the third time. Player A gets a checking penalty, 5 seconds into the shift.

Your team is behind; do you do?

[dochockey]

Your team is playing in the championship game at one of the Christmas tournaments. Your third line is weak; it has only scored one goal in 14 games, that goal was tipped in by the other team. The majority of the goals scored on your team occurred when the third line was playing.

Less than two minutes into the game, the third line is sent out. Player A gets a hooking penalty 10 seconds into the shift. Later in the first period the third line is sent out again for the third time. Player A gets a checking penalty, 5 seconds into the shift.

Your team is behind; do you do?

I think I would give up coaching if halfway thru the season I hadn't taught my team enough where I had confidence in them during a game. You do your whole team a diservice by not teaching them and letting them play and it will cost the team in the long run.

[MNHockeyFan]

I think I would give up coaching if halfway thru the season I hadn't taught my team enough where I had confidence in them during a game. You do your whole team a diservice by not teaching them and letting them play and it will cost the team in the long run.

There are many programs that simply do not have the depth to support a good or even a decent third line. If the third line players don't have much in the way of hockey/skating skills coming in, I don't think you can expect the coach to perform miracles in just one year. Nearly all of the players on the good teams these days have been playing since mites or U10, but some programs still are forced to play relative beginners just for lack of numbers.

As far as the question goes, I think the answer depends on:
a. What is the opposing coach doing - playing 3 lines or just 2?
b. Are they the home team so the coach could match his third line against the other team's third line (assuming there isn't a huge difference, quality-wise, between the two).
c. How fresh are the players on his first two lines, especially toward the end of this last game of the tournament where they're probably playing their third game in three days? If they are showing some signs of fatigue, maybe the coach spots them here or there, rotates them 1-2, 1-2, 1-2-3, etc., while making sure his top two defensemen are out there with them(?)

Against the best teams, I don't think it's possible anymore to win consistently while playing just two lines the whole game. If the other team rolls three strong lines and you try to go with just two, the other team is going to wear you down as the game goes on. I do think you can get by playing just four D while having 1 or 2 backups on the bench for penalty situations, or to substitute in case of injury.

[polars]

It suprises me the number of HS coaches that still work on the developmental aspect of the game. If they would truly coach to win, they could weed out the dead weight by not offering them any optimism to continue to play. In two weeks, we will see the coaches who have it figgered out.

Hey 4, your kid must be a super star on a bad team? Everyone needs development. If a kid trys hard they should play. Maybe try support your coach and your daughters teammates for once.

[hockeya1a]

Also I believe the question is why are coaches working on the development part of the game, Simply they need to! they are suppose to!
When you quit teaching they quit learning from you.
It is not about one game and equal playing time,
There may be a time when you need to sit a kid but teach them what is expected while doing so. (Hence) Development!!!!

[winnings not 4 everyone]

Here's the point. Some girls will never be "good" players. They started hockey a little later in life because they probably didn't make the basketball team. Does this mean a coach has to cater to their "emotional" needs of getting a bone thrown to them every now and then. In almost all other sports, dead weight gets cut. Since most girls hockey programs lack "numbers", does this give them the right to play? And yes, they probably don't do anything other than show up to practice to improve themselves. Like a slow learner, it holds the progress back of the rest of the class.

[MNHockeyFan]

Here's the point. Some girls will never be "good" players. They started hockey a little later in life because they probably didn't make the basketball team. Does this mean a coach has to cater to their "emotional" needs of getting a bone thrown to them every now and then. In almost all other sports, dead weight gets cut. Since most girls hockey programs lack "numbers", does this give them the right to play? And yes, they probably don't do anything other than show up to practice to improve themselves. Like a slow learner, it holds the progress back of the rest of the class.

Give them some credit for showing up and trying to improve themselves! With dedication and effort, along with some good instruction, they can still develop into good players and eventually help the team.

[finance_gal]

Your team is playing in the championship game at one of the Christmas tournaments. Your third line is weak; it has only scored one goal in 14 games, that goal was tipped in by the other team. The majority of the goals scored on your team occurred when the third line was playing.

Less than two minutes into the game, the third line is sent out. Player A gets a hooking penalty 10 seconds into the shift. Later in the first period the third line is sent out again for the third time. Player A gets a checking penalty, 5 seconds into the shift.

Your team is behind; do you do?

This is my daughters hockey coach, he thinks he's being cute by using our family business name for his handle. It's sad to see him still dwelling on a game that happened 3 weeks ago and shows his insecurities that he feels the need to question his judgement so long after a game took place. Some coaches move the game of hockey forward, some hold it back, It's easy to see which one this coach is.

[hockeya1a]

Here is a neat story that was run sometime ago.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/12337936.html

If you coach them they will come, And they might just be good.

[winnings not 4 everyone]

My mistake, I thought "No Child Left Behind" was meant for academics, not athletics. If you hear what they say about NCLB, it isn't working well in the schools either, test scores aren't showing that it is working for the rest of the class.

[chickendance]

What would I do? Not come here for the answer...you have got to be kidding me!

[FASTWHEATIE]

I think it is important to play three lines. if you look at the teams that have success at the state tournament it is the team that is able to play three lines that normally comes out on top. It is no surprise that the teams that are able to skate three lines at the end of the year are the teams that developed three lines all year. Development is the key to any programs success.

[dmbenough2Bagoalie]

winnings not 4 everyone, I truely hope your just trying to prevoke people but if not than you possibly think that buying your team is the way to go.

PS
for future refrence "It is better to be thought an idiot than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt" Theodore Rosevelt


Long story short THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK

[winnings not 4 everyone]

winnings not 4 everyone, I truely hope your just trying to prevoke people but if not than you possibly think that buying your team is the way to go.

PS
for future refrence "It is better to be thought an idiot than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt" Theodore Rosevelt

-
Long story short THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK

You should try to listen to your own advice. How does one possibly "buy" a hockey team? Do you do a search under EBAy? Maybe you look in the Yellow pages? Maybe the classifieds?

If No Child Left Behind were around when you were in school, you would understand that you cannot "buy" a team in high school. You can, however, "buy" a new house, a new car, an education ( you might want to try that one), you can even try to "buy" new friends. Never heard of buying a hockey team at the high school level.

[dmbenough2Bagoalie]

If No Child Left Behind were around when you were in school, you would understand that you cannot "buy" a team in high school. You can, however, "buy" a new house, a new car, an education ( you might want to try that one), you can even try to "buy" new friends. Never heard of buying a hockey team at the high school level.

once again THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK as a certain girls high school coach has been qouted saying " My dad bought me a state tournament and i'll get my daughters one too." i guess that coach wants to win at all COSTS hmmm then again i guess winnings not 4 everyone.

Either way i would call your coaching philosiphy of weeding out week or average players by giving up on them IDIOTIC. Maybe your just looking to find out which positions you need to recruit for.

Also work on your comprehension and cohesive writing skills. maybe try proof reading "IF NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND WERE AROUND WHEN YOU WERE IN SCHOOL, YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CANNOT "BUY" A TEAM IN HIGH SCHOOL" Explain your connection between the two, otherwise this statement makes no sense.

aparently you were one of those left behind.

[winnings not 4 everyone]

You don't see me calling myself "dumb enough"! Thanks to your philosophy on a coach not giving up on anyone, your coach must have given you the opportunity to play. Maybe we should increase roster sizes to say 25-30. Then everyone that wants to play hockey, can. Even as a senior walkon.

[hockeywild7]

I am sorry and don't mean to disrespect you "winnings" but I don't understand your point. The great programs in girls hockey do develop players. That's how they do roster a full team and play 3 lines with 6 D on a regular basis. I don't care what level of hockey you play at, coaches are always developing skills in their players. I think the problem is too many youth coaches only play to win at the cost of developing players. I know the Stillwater program has thrived with the philosophy of developing numbers of players. They Keep working on skating and other skills throughout the youth programs as kids will develop at different rates and at different ages.

[winnings not 4 everyone]

Hockeywild, thanks for not being combative like "dumb and dumber". Here is the point that I am trying to make. Yes, coaches will always need to develop their players. What I am reading from others is, that at no point in time, regardless how much time is spent on them, are we to give up on a girl that just doesn't cut it. It appears that playing on a high school girls hockey team is a right, not a priviledge for those that continue to work hard. With the other team sports, numbers continue to shrink as the years go by. Mainly because coaches start putting the writing on the wall for these players that they do not really have a spot on a team because of their ability (or lack of). With girls hockey, the trend tends to be to encourage ALL girls to keep coming back and we will find a spot for you. This may be a third or fourth line, but you will get a chance to skate when the team is in complete control of a game. You may even get a chance in a closer game, but put the burden on your goalie or teammates to make up for your shortcomings on the ice. Take a senior that has 30 or more penalty minutes and 3 points for the year. She does not contribute other than to let your penalty kill line play more. Is it her "right" that she plays a regular shift? When should a coach "cut the chord". Some people out there are telling me "never". Keep in mind, this thread has nothing to do with youth hockey where hard work and development should be bred.

[dmbenough2Bagoalie]

You don't see me calling myself "dumb enough"!

aparently i struck a nerve

"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie." Brett Hull : This is where i got my screen name i thought it to be amusing.

As for my coach he avoided me and didn't play me, I doubt it was due to a lack of skill. In fact my father was offered a job at worroad when i was a sophmore, which was right after i was asked if i would like to play there.

But my coaching philosophy it is because of my coach. I guess we learn what and more so WHAT NOT to do from our coaches.

As for the rest of your statement maybe think about your previous posts, you are saying that if someone isn't a star or leading player one should give up on them early and weed them out. How can you sustain a program with this theory. I understand that one must field the best team and make cuts but you are way out in left field with your statements.

[Gump Worsley]

WOW hot topic

If i could throw in my two cents. I think you can't give up to early which is what some want to do, but you also can't hang on forever. If a player hasn't come around by her sophmore year she probably wont be playing varsity but thats the beauty of fielding a JV team it gives them a place to play and keep having fun with the game. After all this game is for fun, competitive fun but fun.

[finance_gal]

When my older boys played hockey, they played for Harding Area. The coaches didn't really have the horses to go out and play with the real good teams, so often they would go with 2 lines. The next year we watched the fourth line not come back at all and most of the 3rd line didn't come back. This went on for years, and as this was happening Harding Area was consolidating some teams so they would have enough kids to field teams, and they kept this mindset of only playing a couple lines to keep the games close. Well now Harding Area has no teams. The kids that played 3rd and 4th line that still live in the area have kids. Their kids play basketball or nothing at all in the winter. Did Harding Area build their program by weeding people out or did they destroy their program by pushing people out.....develop the players you have and the program will grow.

[Old Time Coach]

Finance_gal,

I agree with you somewhat, but the reason Harding area is no longer around is to a huge change in demographics over the past ten years. Not because of poor coaching or coaches that didn’t develop the 3rd and 4th line players.

[finance_gal]

Finance_gal,

I agree with you somewhat, but the reason Harding area is no longer around is to a huge change in demographics over the past ten years. Not because of poor coaching or coaches that didn’t develop the 3rd and 4th line players.

I agree the demographics have changed a ton on the east side.There is still many people in the area that will have nothing to do with hockey ever because of the way they were treated....I think the demographics change effected the volenteers and coaching available, then that affected the kids not playing. The good coaches still had kids that wanted to play for them, The bad coaches had good intentions but just didn't have the tools to do the job. (just because they were bad coaches didn't make them bad people) My boys were lucky, they ended up playing for Wes Barrett who was awesome. My point is that coaches who worry about winning more than developing are built on shifting sand and will be constantly rebuilding. Teams that develop player will just be reloading.

[Old Time Coach]

I agree that a bad coach doesn’t make them a bad person. As a coach I would be the first to admit that I didn’t always make the best decisions. But at all times every choice I made, I was doing what I thought was best for the team at that time. Coaching to me is more than teaching the game of hockey, its teaching life lessons. I just want to remind everyone that coaches make mistakes. I don’t think there is a coach out here that would deliberately try to hurt one of their player feelings. We learn from our mistakes just like the players do.

I grew up and played hockey for Harding area. I also had the privilege to coach on the east side. I believe the demographics and finances are the number one reason there is no hockey in the Harding area.

As for Wes, a great coach and a hockey legend.

[finance_gal]

Demographics have changed everywhere, Como still has teams, Johnson still has teams, Highland still has teams. Granted they are not as competitive as they once were but they still have decent numbers, My husband worked with the Como area back in the mid 80's when they blamed demographics and they chose to concentraite their programs on the kids having fun, learning about hockey and bringing in some minority's through the marriucci inner city hockey program and it worked. They brought in kids that had no knowledge of hockey and they built a program. How because they adjusted and adapted and focused on development. They knew they wouldn't win a ton games some years but the developing every kid who showed up never changed.

As for life lessons, Sports teach kids enough about lifes lessons without a coaches input. Our coach this year talked a good game about morals but when it came right down to it he chose when he wanted to throw morals into the equation and his zero tolerance only applied sometimes along with his temper which he unleashed on referees (very classless). We lost respect for for the program because of it and we ended up upset.