Ms. Goalie 2008

[QuinUD1]

No kidding? Would never have guessed! haha. I don't know who my vote would be, because there are plenty of talented goaltenders in this class.

[brookyone]

Keep this in mind, this is a HIGH SCHOOL award NOT a USA Hockey award. Did you know she only saw about 60 shots total the whole U18 tournament? Many goalies listed here see that in 2 games on a regular basis. While Nixon did the USA stint, she still played major minutes for her team and saw plenty of action. This is also a Senior award that is based not only your Hockey stats but your efforts in your community, your grades, and many other factors. And I don't know this but if Gorgan is still able to do all those other things and still do USA and HS hockey, good for her. While you cannot take away her great history and her talent, this is a Senior Year award and I just don't think her senior year is going as well as many others, Kassa, Justice, Lenz, Herzog, Hunter, Pieper and many others that I have seen working their tails off. A .910 % on 190 shots doesn't qualify much when there are tenders out there with 500-700 shots with a better % and same if not better GAA. Whatever the result, it's definitely not decided here on this forum, (which may be unfortunate because the press does not put near enough time into seeing who's really doing well in person). Best of luck to all the goalies who have worked so hard to give their teams a chance to win. Grogan included, she is still good.

Sure...if you keep in mind I was merely refuting your implication that she doesn't "qualify" because that's an implication I disagree with. The point, which I thought was fairly clear, was that anyone selected to play on a national team and subsequently excelling in an international tournament most definitely "qualifies" for serious Ms. Goalie consideration in terms of talent / skill, which is the only thing I'm addressing with my comments. That would seem a fairly good indicator to me, again, speaking to skill only. The point wasn't that she should be Ms. Goalie because she played on the national team. Because I have no knowledge of how any potential candidates stack up per the criteria other than on ice performance...I can only base my opinions on that on ice performance...and I've noted that in past Ms. Hockey / Ms. Goalie opinions I've posted.

Another implication I disagree with (not yours...but a few others) is that Ms. Grogan should perhaps not be eligible due to her absence during her senior season while playing with Team USA. I completely disagree with that as well.

Did Nixon have a backup the quality of Miss Grogan's teammate? Not that I recall.

As far as senior year only award...I'm still not sure that a candidates career doesn't have any impact or influence in the minds of voters. That's a question I've asked several times just looking for the thoughts of others. Does a potential Ms. Hockey or Ms. Goalie candidates entire high school career become a factor...even a small one for voters?

[Puck Bag]

I think it should be a career award. Just my opinion.

[Cardfan]

Without stats we would have to rely on the personal opinion of people who have never seen most of the girls play or only seen them on a good or a bad night. Save % will give a good picture of a kids focus and consistancy against both good and weak teams.

USA hockey has always been based on personal opinion and most of the kids have never been given the chance to show their stuf to those choosing the top teams

[brookyone]

USA hockey has always been based on personal opinion and most of the kids have never been given the chance to show their stuf to those choosing the top teams

This is way off topic but when referring to "most of the kids" not getting the chance to show their stuff" you mean all players...well yes, that may be true. If you mean most of the kids that actually have the potential to play for their country on a US national team aren't getting that chance, I'm not sure that's true. I sincerely hope this doesn't turn into another of the gazzillion USA Hockey bashing threads. This thread has nothing to do with USA Hockey.

[xwildfan]

USA Hockey must have done something right with the U18 Team player selections.

[Bensonmum]

My opinion: Ms Goalie and Ms Hockey have to be career awards.

Part of the award should also be the manner in which the recipient contributes to the game of Minnesota Girls' HS Hockey. Respresenting Minnesota on the U18 National team 'promotes' Minnesota hockey in that regard.

[Roman Legion]

It is hard to know what the decision makers are actually looking at for this award. I know from the nomination form that community service and academics are part of the form and all statistics also have to be included.

Who votes? College coaches, like for Ms. Hockey? Then it will be the U18 girl. LPH Staff? Then who knows?

Career award? Senior year?

How do you compare a goalie who faces 40 shots a game and saves at 92% to a goalie who plays behind great players and saves 15 shots a game and saves at 94%? How about a goalie that has to carry a team vs. a goalie that is on a team that would win regardless if they were in the net or if the JV goalie was out there?

There are a lot of great goalies out there. If form follows then the U18 goalie is a shoe in. When was the last time a goalie not on a top 20 team won or someone who did not go to Lake Placid?

[hockeya1a]

You don't suppose Grogan having Darwitz as a coach had anything to do with her getting more recognition for the U18. Sometimes it is who you know! I admit she does have pretty good stats. But my choice would still be Hunter, I think the award should go to the tender that has helped her team the most.
If I am not mistaken there was an article about Grogan and Altman on how equal they are? So where would that make one stand out over the other.

[brookyone]

You don't suppose Grogan having Darwitz as a coach had anything to do with her getting more recognition for the U18. Sometimes it is who you know! I admit she does have pretty good stats. But my choice would still be Hunter, I think the award should go to the tender that has helped her team the most.
If I am not mistaken there was an article about Grogan and Altman on how equal they are? So where would that make one stand out over the other.

Well, they're both good, or in my mind, a little better than good. So I'd say comparing her to Altman as an equal isn't really a negative thing or doesn't really lessen her legitimacy as a Ms. Goalie candidate. No one is denying there are a number of fine / worthy goaltenders in the senior class.

I think the award should go to the tender that has helped her team the most.

A valid consideration, but we know the award is not based on that one aspect.

I don't have any proof it was Miss Grogan's relationship with Darwitz that got her on the US roster. Do you? I'm a bit skeptical that would be enough...or the only requirement. I think it may have been based in part on observations of her performance by several other individuals...just a guess. What does that have to do with being a Ms. Goalie nominee?

If I stopped to think about it for a minute...I might get the idea a bunch of people have some sort of bizarre personal bone with Grogan. If you want to endorse a candidate fine, do it...why must they be accompanied by cheap, unrelated, totally irrelevant shots at another player?

[defensedad]

You don't suppose Grogan having Darwitz as a coach had anything to do with her getting more recognition for the U18. Sometimes it is who you know! I admit she does have pretty good stats. But my choice would still be Hunter, I think the award should go to the tender that has helped her team the most.
If I am not mistaken there was an article about Grogan and Altman on how equal they are? So where would that make one stand out over the other.

Well, they're both good, or in my mind, a little better than good. So I'd say comparing her to Altman as an equal isn't really a negative thing or doesn't really lessen her legitimacy as a Ms. Goalie candidate. No one is denying there are a number of fine / worthy goaltenders in the senior class.

I think the award should go to the tender that has helped her team the most.

A valid consideration, but we know the award is not based on that one aspect.

I don't have any proof it was Miss Grogan's relationship with Darwitz that got her on the US roster. Do you? I'm a bit skeptical that would be enough...or the only requirement. I think it may have been based in part on observations of her performance by several other individuals...just a guess. What does that have to do with being a Ms. Goalie nominee?

If I stopped to think about it for a minute...I might get the idea a bunch of people have some sort of bizarre personal bone with Grogan. If you want to endorse a candidate fine, do it...why must they be accompanied by cheap, unrelated, totally irrelevant shots at another player?

Brooky

Let it die.
She is going to your school. You will be one sided no matter what. Enough is enough.

[brookyone]

Brooky

Let it die.
She is going to your school. You will be one sided no matter what. Enough is enough.

Why don't you explain to me how my posting (a few times) that Grogan is a legit contender for Ms. Hockey (and nothing more) is one sided? Did I say she is the clear favorite? No I didn't. Doesn't have anything to do with her choice of university either.

And that indeed is more than enough on this subject.

[hockeya1a]

Brooky, I apologize I did not intend to make it sound like Grogan is not deserving of the award and I was not bashing Altman, I was basically stating that Eagan has two goalies that are equal in helping their team and their team wins with either one.
On to the Hunter choice, Please note I am not from Bloomington and do not personally know hunter, I have seen both goalies in question play, and I feel that Hunter has shown how important she is to their team over and over.

Now onto the Darwitz part, every coach Helps out their players, As I believe they should, and it surely cannot hurt having a great name like Darwitz on your side. I have the utmost respect for Scott and Natalie as coaches and players and they have been thru the system and now how it works.
This was truthfully more or less directed at Boblee as he stated

=Boblee, I agree with everything you said. However, if you play for team USA and you don't win this award what does that show?

I am just stating that I do not believe that you should get an automatic vote just because you played for the USA U18.

If you look at the stats they have faced the same opponents 3 times and yes hunter gave up more goals 8 total to be exact. But her teams shot Difference is an average of 42 shots per each of the 3 games, which means her team in front of her is much weaker.
This is based on shots taken by each team. As an example the EP vs. Eagan game Grogan faced 27 shots the EP goalie faced 22 for a -5. Whereas Bloomington had 2 shots on goal and Hunter faced 68 for a -66

Grogan Hunter
EP -5 27 -66 68
LVN -3 23 -32 46
AV +2 27 -34 51
-6 -132


I know it really does not matter what any of us thinks we do not decide who gets what.
It is just an unbiased observation, I think that all goalies are deserving of the award who in there right mind would want to take the abuse that they do.

[puckislife]

Here's one for ya to ponder speaking of Darwitz. Ok miss Darwitz did not play much HS hockey. When she did she helped her team immensly. She left to focus on Team USA, She played for the U. Did NOT even get nominated for Ms. Hockey. Hmmmm. And does the name help the USA choice? You bet it does. I saw goalies at the USA Phase I a couple years ago who looked much quicker and allowed less goals during the tryout scrimmages. Who got selected for Phase II? Grogan and Altman. Who was part of the process? Mr. Darwitz. I think it's pretty much in the bag for Grogan anyway giving her great history. And if she gets it she deserves it she has worked awful hard to get where she is. As far as coaches helping promote players out, our coach doesn't lift a finger. It's all up to the parents and I think that makes it difficult to get recognition. I don't know how may D1 schools or award committees will respect the opinons of the parents trying to get their kid scouted or nominated. That is where the press that the Eagan goalies get from their coach helps so much.

[Puck Bag]

http://www.mnsun.com/articles/2008/01/2 ... 24ghoc.txt



I think the last two paragraphs summarize a career.[/code]

[iceit]

first there are many note worthy goalies..many have been mentioned.
the reason Grogan is the USA U18 goalie is because of her national camp performances....Bottom line when she gets there she performs. sorry to those that haven't gone, that matters.
You are all intitled to your favorite hometown, stat leader girl. good for you it's wonderful that there are so many, but you shouldn't take anything away from Grogan-she too has done great things. She has been the goalie to beat for as long as i can remember. I vote Grogan NO contest. With or without Darwitz.

[g31]

JUST MY OPINION, DICE UP AS YOU CHOOSE.


Rank-Player- Saves-Save %-GAA
1. Hunter 777-.932-2.83
2.Haralson 576-.922-2.24
3.Grogan 173-.925-1.68
4. Lenz 497-.931-1.95
5.Kassa 692-.94- 1.96

Stats are from www.mgcha.com
I picked Hunter on top due to the large number of saves and save % and not much of a team to help her out.
I would have put Grogan higher, but she played in only half the games. Her team mate Alttman would have been my choice, but I gave Grogan the nod based on past year and U18 selection. USA hockey knows far more than me. I expect some backlash on this pick. Haralson has been solid all year as well. Lenz is the true sleeper here. What a great job against some good teams. Kassa has also been faboulous all year as well. There are many other choices that are well deserved to be mentiond, but only 5 finalists are selected.

Share your thoughts.

[GOCARDS1]

no love for Justice g31?
0.85 GAA 0.959 save%
she has half the GAA then the 5 goalies that you just listed..

[g31]

no love for Justice g31?
0.85 GAA 0.959 save%
she has half the GAA then the 5 goalies that you just listed..

Great goalie, but the Alex schedule as a whole is no where near as tough as others. She did play some fabulous games against some very good teams, but also played a lot more good games against average teams. Like I said there are many others that are close, I just picked my 5.

[pondhockey]

When are the real nominations released? Please feel free to continue your discussions of favorites, but I for one feel like its getting to be like beating a dead horse. It will be more interesting once actual names are announced and then pick a personal winner from that list.

[LundqvistRoy]

if that goalie from hibbing, the starter with the TPS Ice caps isnt on the list, she better be!

she is crazy awesome!!!!

[chickendance]

Must be talking about Kaye Collier. I wouldhave to agree! She is only a junior!

[goalzilla]

Alot of debate on this issue as with any selection process. Hopefully (but doubtful) the selection process will be kept in scope. This is an award that goes to the top senior Minnesota High School girls goalie. Should it be considered a high school career award? Yes. If a player explodes their senior HS season you really can't discount them either they've matured to that level. Should what they did as a member of a USA hockey, summer AAA, Select team or other hockey teams they played on be taken into consideration? NO! Maybe I am naieve, but this is a High School award. If MS goalie and MS hockey selections are going to take into consideration what a player did as a participant on non-HS school teams you might as well open up the selection to players from Shattuck St. Marys, Thouroughbreds, U19 High school attendees, etc. Right now the award is what it is, hopefully the selection committie makes their selection using the criteria and leave selection politics out of it.

[hockeya1a]

Alot of debate on this issue as with any selection process. Hopefully (but doubtful) the selection process will be kept in scope. This is an award that goes to the top senior Minnesota High School girls goalie. Should it be considered a high school career award? Yes. If a player explodes their senior HS season you really can't discount them either they've matured to that level. Should what they did as a member of a USA hockey, summer AAA, Select team or other hockey teams they played on be taken into consideration? NO! Maybe I am naieve, but this is a High School award. If MS goalie and MS hockey selections are going to take into consideration what a player did as a participant on non-HS school teams you might as well open up the selection to players from Shattuck St. Marys, Thouroughbreds, U19 High school attendees, etc. Right now the award is what it is, hopefully the selection committie makes their selection using the criteria and leave selection politics out of it.

I agree!
and here is a reason it shouldn't be based on career only,
some goalies only have a year or two to be the stopper because there might have been someone that was a candidate the year before so they maybe only got one year to be seen.

[xwildfan]

A lot of qualities of Ms.Goalie have been discussed...ability, statistics, academics, community service, etc. If I had a vote, I would leave all the extra off- ice stuff out of the equation. I think the committee should just select the best goalie. There are all kinds of academic awards, community service awards, humanitarian awards, etc. that are given to outstanding students. Let the MS.Goalie and Ms.Hockey awards go to the best hockey players. This will be a tough enough decision without bringing the outside of hockey stuff into the equation.