Minnesota made AAA hockey teams Grinders/Snipers

[spin-o-rama]

...and for Minnesota Made. my kid basically spent the time out there skating up and down making funny faces at my in the stands - bored to death.

Minnesota Made - they say 1st impressions last a lifetime - for me it is an embarasment to have that name with what I saw.

Minnesota Made receives a lot of harsh criticism, but I have never heard of anyone being bored there.

[BoogeyMan]

...and for Minnesota Made. my kid basically spent the time out there skating up and down making funny faces at my in the stands - bored to death.

Minnesota Made - they say 1st impressions last a lifetime - for me it is an embarasment to have that name with what I saw.

Minnesota Made receives a lot of harsh criticism, but I have never heard of anyone being bored there.

Spinorama- B-I-N-G-O! Hard to believe another made up story about minny made.
Like the Octopus stated. All is well. Kids are developing and having fun. Not to mention My son is still playing with his buddies. He's been a part of Minny made for two years. Stories keep getting better and better

[HockeyDad2016]

BoogeyMan - Now you know not to sign him up for anymore clinics?

My kid wasn't in the minny mite program over at MM - and your comment above about not being a good fit, and now I know not to have my kid do clinic's - Come on...........

My kid has been involved in many clinics and spring/summer/fall leagues over the years - my statement should have read:

I would never spend my money to send my kid to MM with all of the other choices available these days.

but I didn't want to be so harsh - since it was free and all. it is great that they did that - and I think they should do it again this year at the Expo.
Maybe I caught a teenager that just broke up with his girlfriend for my kids clinic.

[BoogeyMan]

Hockeydad, Good luck!

[watchdog]

boogie how old is your son? actually what id like to know is what level is he playing at right now?

[BoogeyMan]

Watchdog- My son is a Mite.

[hockeyparent11]

This season, three kids with offers to play quit the 95 Machine because they were burned out. Despite multiple offers from other teams, none of these three are playing on AAA teams this spring.

Burn out really does happen. You will not see it until the kids get to be 12-14 years old. Be careful.

[TheOctopus]

This season, three kids with offers to play quit the 95 Machine because they were burned out. Despite multiple offers from other teams, none of these three are playing on AAA teams this spring.

Burn out really does happen. You will not see it until the kids get to be 12-14 years old. Be careful.

And so does growing up and deciding to pursue something different.

[BoogeyMan]

This season, three kids with offers to play quit the 95 Machine because they were burned out. Despite multiple offers from other teams, none of these three are playing on AAA teams this spring.

Burn out really does happen. You will not see it until the kids get to be 12-14 years old. Be careful.

Hockeyparent- Thanks for the heads up. This is pretty much true for anything in life. Its all about pacing yourself. In this case pacing the kids. My son is excited to play baseball, golf, fish, football camp and spend time at the cabin this summer with family and friends. He's also really excited about AAA hockey.
I also admit the Machine is something completely different than majority of AAA teams. The parents of the Machine players know what they're getting their kids into by playing with the machine. If any of these kids burn out. The parents are the ones to blame. Some kids love the intensity. Some kids cannot handle the intensity playing hockey all the time. It is alot to ask from young kids.
This all comes back to each his own, and all people are different. My son loves being part of Minnesota made. I'm not surprised that some kids quit. But you'll see just as many or more kids quit association hockey.

To each his own.

[hockeyparent11]

Boogeyman-

I agree with most of what you said. I disagree that most parents know what they are getting into when they start their mites on the Machine hockey program.

Here is why:

Bernie's sell is that " with the right training these kids could already be world class" by age 15. (it's in his Mite Choice Brochure). He told his 120 Mite Choice kids and their parents that they have a 30% chance of going D1 if they train with him. Those are empty promises when made to any mite family. A parent who bites on that promise is making a bad deal.

Remember, the long-term impact of MM's no-rest, CNI development theory is still experimental. Bernie has not done it before. He did not form his vaunted '88 group until they were 12 years old (he took them from Irv Singer before the Spring, 2000 season). Bernie never shares this fact.

Also, most parents do not understand the burn-out factor until it is too late. This is not an MM-only issue.

Finally, in my experience, most parents of mite/squirt/Peewee age kids are surprised to learn that almost nobody outside the team cares how well a kid that age plays hockey.

I would also encourage you to go see some PWA and Bantam A games this winter. The difference in speed, size and skill is remarkable, and, unlike high school, not too far in the future.

You seem to have your eyes open. Enjoy it as you go. Good luck and have fun.

[The Collector]

The last post by hockeyparent11 is not quite correct. My son was on the 88s team and was recruited by Bernie as a mite when he was eight years old. As far as I know, Bernie recruited all of the boys from his hockey school.

While it is true the Bernie and Irv Singer were the coaches of the 88 Blades team. We were only the Blades for one year only. Then we became the Spirit. That team only stayed together for about three months. Irv did not want spend as much time training as Bernie thought we should. That's when most of the players went with Bernie and became the Minnesota 88s.

Bernie is the reason that my son and the 88s are having the success they are. It was not easy and there were many times when we wondered if we were nuts, but on this side it is well worth the time and effort spent.

[jackstraw]

I don't remember the Spirit playing in the winter. Where did they skate out of?

[BoogeyMan]

Boogeyman-

I agree with most of what you said. I disagree that most parents know what they are getting into when they start their mites on the Machine hockey program.

Here is why:

Bernie's sell is that " with the right training these kids could already be world class" by age 15. (it's in his Mite Choice Brochure). He told his 120 Mite Choice kids and their parents that they have a 30% chance of going D1 if they train with him. Those are empty promises when made to any mite family. A parent who bites on that promise is making a bad deal.

Remember, the long-term impact of MM's no-rest, CNI development theory is still experimental. Bernie has not done it before. He did not form his vaunted '88 group until they were 12 years old (he took them from Irv Singer before the Spring, 2000 season). Bernie never shares this fact.

Also, most parents do not understand the burn-out factor until it is too late. This is not an MM-only issue.

Finally, in my experience, most parents of mite/squirt/Peewee age kids are surprised to learn that almost nobody outside the team cares how well a kid that age plays hockey.

I would also encourage you to go see some PWA and Bantam A games this winter. The difference in speed, size and skill is remarkable, and, unlike high school, not too far in the future.

You seem to have your eyes open. Enjoy it as you go. Good luck and have fun.

Hockeyparent- I honestly think majority of Machine parents know in advance what they're getting themselves into. The reason I say this. Is some parents elect not to come back the following year. I know that the machine is not for my son. I would elect not to have him play on that team if he had the chance.
My son is in the Choice Mite league. I did attend Bernies parent meeting. I can promise you that he never promised any parents at our meeting that 30% of the kids would go D1.
Please believe me when I say. Everything is fine at Minnesota made. The choice league is seperate from the AAA teams. Besides writing the practice plans. Bernie keeps his distance and lets the coaches coach. Players play.
My son is planning on playing on one of the AAA teams at Minnesota made this summer. So far we've had about 8 non-mandatoryice times. The team is a great fit for my son.

One misconception that people have with me. They think that I'm sending my son to Minnesota made to make Squirt "A" next season. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Dollar for dollar. Minnesota made gives you more bang for the buck. This is true for a lot of the parents I've met at Minnesota made. I could go on and on. Long story short. I highly recommend Minnesota made. Great parents and great kids.

Good luck to you.

[boardmember]

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:00 pm
He did not form his vaunted '88 group until they were 12 years old (he took them from Irv Singer before the Spring, 2000 season). Bernie never shares this fact.

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:54 am
The history on the 88s is clear. They were not formed until 2000, when the kids were 12 years old. (Look at the the trophies at MM and look at old programs). Before that they played for the Blades and a team called the Minnesota Spirit. Their coach was Irv Singer on both teams.

The last post by hockeyparent11 is not quite correct. My son was on the 88s team and was recruited by Bernie as a mite when he was eight years old. As far as I know, Bernie recruited all of the boys from his hockey school.

While it is true the Bernie and Irv Singer were the coaches of the 88 Blades team. We were only the Blades for one year only. Then we became the Spirit. That team only stayed together for about three months. Irv did not want spend as much time training as Bernie thought we should. That's when most of the players went with Bernie and became the Minnesota 88s.

Bernie is the reason that my son and the 88s are having the success they are. It was not easy and there were many times when we wondered if we were nuts, but on this side it is well worth the time and effort spent.

Collector,

Thanks for the post and the information!

Hockeyparent11,

Twice in the last couple months you have been compelled to post on here your recollection of hockey history regarding the kids that played on the 88 Blades, 88 Spirit, Minnesota 88's. Both posts tend to steer the reader to believe that there something sinister, not with truth, going on with the 88's. Not that that really matters! But for some reason it does to you.

Now, a nice informative informational post from a parent of that "vaunted" Minnesota 88 team paints a different picture. Lets do a little time line using information from your posts and his......

1998 88 Blades Coaches I Singer, B McBain Ages 10
1999 Spirit ( together 3 months) Coachs I Singer B McBain Ages 11
2000 Minnesota 88's Coach B McBain Ages 12
2001 Minnesota 88's Coach B McBain Ages 13
2002 Minnesota 88's Coach B McBain Ages 14
2003 Minnesota 88's Coach B McBain Ages 15
2004 Minnesota 88's Coach B McBain Ages 16

Looking at the 7 years on this time line I see a single common denominator. So whats your point???

[hockeyparent11]

1. As I said, Bernie did not become Head Coach of the 88's until they were 12 years old, in 2000. There is no dispute about this.

2. My information comes not from my memory but from a few different places. After I met Irv Singer a few years ago, he gave me some history. Then, I stumbled on some old programs that confirmed these kids were the Blades unitl 98, the Spirit in 99 and the '88's in 2000. Then I read Bernie's own written history of the 88s and this was confirmed again.

The D1 speech at the Mite Choice meeting came to me from one who was there and has been confirmed by others. Bernie told me something similar about my kid when he was a mite, which is why I chatted up Irv Singer when I met him.

3. If Collector's son was born in 88, was recruited by Bernie at age 8, then moved to the Spirit in 99(at age 11), he must have spent at least 2-3 years with anothe team, not just one.

4. The seven-year history ignores many factors. The most important is that Bernie himself did less coaching of these kids than many others did, including Irv Singer, Tom Ward (Shattuck); and all of their winter coaches. Ask Bernie and he will tell you that these coaches helped develop those 88 players. I think he will also give credit to the players.

5. Bernie's CNI theory is based on this: If you give a kid 100 hours of good practice, he will improve to the next level. If you keep adding practice hours 12 months per year, without an extended break, you reach these 100-hour increments faster and thus develop faster. his methods are based in large part on the old Soviet training methods.

6. My point is this: Remember, the long-term impact of MM's no-rest, CNI development theory is still experimental. Be careful of burn out. Bernie has never taken a group of mites and applied CNI through Bantams. His 96 group is the first (95 group was not formed until last year).

[BoogeyMan]

Hockeyparent- Point well taken. You have some good points.

In our parents meeting. Bernie never promised us anything about our kids making D1 someday. He did reflect on some examples of kids that worked hard to make D1.
Bernie has a plan. If you want to be a part of it. You have to play by the rules. But the parents also need to point the fingers at themselves if their kids gets burnt out.
Keep in mind that kids that have nothing to do with Bernie program are burning out too.
As you can tell. I'm not a fan of people blaming Bernie. Parents are responsible for their kids. If your kid quits hockey. You have to take some of the blame.
Parents- Know your kid. Don't push. Make it fun. At all levels.

[hockeyparent11]

Boogey:

You are correct. As I said above, Burnout is not an MM-only issue. It is also the parents job to prevent it.

Some MM kids and some not-MM kids will burn out. That is inevitable. If you push any group of kids too hard, some of them will quit.

Watch for the signs of burn out(lack of emotion and energy on the ice, not wanting to go to the rink). Most of all make sure the kids are smiling before, during and after practice.

Make it fun is right.

[The Collector]

hockeyparent11,

I gather from your post that you must be in some way part of the Blades. We were part of the Blades and my son had many freinds that were on the later Blades 88s team. We also went to Toronto with them.

I am also fairly confident that you were not around at the time when the 88s were put together. Bernie first approach us about our son about playing on the 88 team in March of 1997 a full year before the team ever played it first game. Given my sons birthday he was still 8 years old.

Over that spring and summer Bernie ran about 20 "tryout sessions". These ice times were held at Richfield and Irv Singer was never present at any of them. We never saw or met Irv until the following April. Irv did run the bench during the games, but when it came to the practices Bernie ran most all of the practices and was clearly the responsible for the boys training.

This is the reason that after leaving the Blades and then leaving the Spirit most all of the team went with Bernie and became the Minnesota 88s. Irv was a great guy, but it was clear that Bernie was the one that would be willing to put in the work. Yes the boys have been coached by a number of fine coaches, but they would have not reached the level they are at without the skill training they received from working with Bernie. It was the right training at the right time.

My son wore a Blades Jersey at one time, but that had little or nothing to do with his development as players. I have a hard time when I see people taking credit for that group of boys that were in no way part of that team.

[jancze5]

so much love on this topic amongst the boys...

I'm hopeful as many SHOULD be that this group of players is able to repeat the 88's and they all go to the U and win it all someday and we come on here and cheer them, but I'm also a "wait and see" guy. THese kids do several things very well and stand out in squirt games with their peers right now, they all skate and skate extremely well on their edges and changing direction; they all pass the puck and regroup as if it's engrained in their DNA; they all are relentless players and don't overshift...what they don't do/know is where they will be in 2 years or 4 years because puberty and size will factor in whether they or you like it or not and we all know that. In the meantime, root for these kids this summer, if you see them play objectively judge what they are doing, and most importantly..root for your own kid and help him/her find his way in whatever direction they are going. Peace.

Going to the beanpot finals in Boston on Monday..HA-verd and BC, little Carl Sneep action. Saweeet!!

[RobRay]

Collector - I would be interested to hear your experiences with Bernies motivational techniques with your son's team and what you think of his expanded program now.

[BoogeyMan]

hockeyparent11,

I gather from your post that you must be in some way part of the Blades. We were part of the Blades and my son had many freinds that were on the later Blades 88s team. We also went to Toronto with them.

I am also fairly confident that you were not around at the time when the 88s were put together. Bernie first approach us about our son about playing on the 88 team in March of 1997 a full year before the team ever played it first game. Given my sons birthday he was still 8 years old.

Over that spring and summer Bernie ran about 20 "tryout sessions". These ice times were held at Richfield and Irv Singer was never present at any of them. We never saw or met Irv until the following April. Irv did run the bench during the games, but when it came to the practices Bernie ran most all of the practices and was clearly the responsible for the boys training.

This is the reason that after leaving the Blades and then leaving the Spirit most all of the team went with Bernie and became the Minnesota 88s. Irv was a great guy, but it was clear that Bernie was the one that would be willing to put in the work. Yes the boys have been coached by a number of fine coaches, but they would have not reached the level they are at without the skill training they received from working with Bernie. It was the right training at the right time.

My son wore a Blades Jersey at one time, but that had little or nothing to do with his development as players. I have a hard time when I see people taking credit for that group of boys that were in no way part of that team.

Collector- What group of kids out there right now would be a good example of Minnesota made players?

[iceman02]

Hey someone tell me a little bit about Bernie..I hear different things. Is he a good guy?

[BoogeyMan]

Iceman- From everything I've seen. He's a great guy.

[bernie007]

Iceman- From everything I've seen. He's a great guy.

Thanks BoogeyMan you can be on my team along with
tenoverpar. We will teach these others how to play the game the way
it's supposed to be played.

[tomASS]

Thanks BoogeyMan you can be on my team along with
tenoverpar. We will teach these others how to play the game the way
it's supposed to be played.

bernie - you'll have to teach him how to skate first