Easy questions for 2008 Roseau Ram fans

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east hockey
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Re: Bravo Bob

Post by east hockey »

O-townClown wrote:
BIAFP wrote:
Check the MSHSL record books for state hockey champions and you will see two schools with 7 championships :roll:
All history books count Edina with 9. You can check.
Go to this link:

http://mshsl.org/mshsl/activitypage.asp?actnum=410

Then click on "Yearbook and Record Book"

Look on page 187 and you'll find: "Most Championships: 7 International Falls; Roseau"

The Minnesota State High School League considers the three which Edina East won to be seperate from those the combined Edina high school won. Just a guess, but I think that might be what Bader is referring to. And he's correct.

Lee
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Re: Bravo Bob

Post by O-townClown »

east hockey wrote:The Minnesota State High School League considers the three which Edina East won to be seperate from those the combined Edina high school won. Just a guess, but I think that might be what Bader is referring to. And he's correct.

Lee
Lee, they can consider it whatever they want. The trophies are at the high school.

When Roseau's population swells so much because everyone wants to live there and they need another high school you tell me what happens.

Championships won by Roseau North or Roseau South don't count?

Championships won by Roseau (one school gets to keep the name) count and others won by Willam J. Clinton High don't?

If you want to argue semantics I'll lose, because you can assign any meaning to words you want. I'm not going to link to the page you provided because I don't need to. A list of champions in Minnesota probably shows 7 - Roseau, 6 - Edina, and 3 - Edina East. If you choose not to count, well...I don't know why someone wouldn't count them.

How many hockey championships has Roseau won?

7

How many has Edina won

The only answer anyone in Edina can come up with is 9. I'll let someone from somewhere else rationalize how they come up with some other number.

[/b]
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O-townClown
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Re: Bravo Bob

Post by O-townClown »

east hockey wrote:
O-townClown wrote:
BIAFP wrote:
Check the MSHSL record books for state hockey champions and you will see two schools with 7 championships :roll:
All history books count Edina with 9. You can check.
Go to this link:

http://mshsl.org/mshsl/activitypage.asp?actnum=410

Then click on "Yearbook and Record Book"

Look on page 187 and you'll find: "Most Championships: 7 International Falls; Roseau"
Lee, same link. Go to page 181 and count. Nine. Still.
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Post by Jacketfan06 »

:lol:
*Carolina Hurricanes 2006 Stanley Cup Champions*
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G&W

Post by O-townClown »

Green and White Fan wrote:Hey O-town, find me one post where I have been a jerk. Just because I use your logic and post examples that don't fit into your world does not make me a jerk. Find one post buddy!
G&W:

There are two threads ("Roseau/Blaine" and "Roseau/Edina - who is better?") where you've invented a Straw Man for your argument. After the Blaine game you - for reasons only you know - tried to bring Edina's schedule into question. Two posts about Edina not beating PS2 #26 or whatever (Hopkins) more soundly when the matter of discussion was how would Roseau fare against a state Top Ten team.

Roseau passed with flying colors with a hard-fought win over Blaine, which satisfied most but some chronic malcontents continued to feign disinterest. I presume to get under the skin of those from Roseau. Jerkish behavior in my book too.

Rather than bring up something insightful, it seemed (I may be wrong, my apologies if so) that you were looking for someone to engage on Edina's schedule. Or last outing. Or something. Edina has played as tough a slate as anyone, done well, and seems to be either #1 or #1a with Roseau. And you go fishing for the quality of Edina's opponents? Sheesh, why? Seriously, their schedule is as tough as any and that's what you assail?

I thought Edina would have put the schedule crap to bed when people realized:
#1 NO team played in the Edina Holiday Tournament and Gold Division of Schwan Cup, and
#2 The Silver Division had as many Top Ten teams (Edina 1, STA 5, BSM 6, Blaine 8) as the Gold (Minnetonka 2, Hill-Murray 4, Centennial 7, Duluth East 10) if you measure by the same PS2 rank. Gold had more between 11-20 though.

After Edina loses to Minnetonka, and they might lose, you can post whatever you like. Probably better save the "they're soft schedule didn't prepare them for a tough road game" argument though. I don't think it works.

I'm sure deep down we both want the same. Edina to face Roseau in the final with the best team winning, whoever that is. Otherwise we'll never know.
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O- Clown

Post by northwoods oldtimer »

O-Clown you do have some spare time to come up with quite a survey and great emotion for the emerald city hornets. However the game that we all would like to see might be tough for both clubs to get to on Saturday night. Edina has a very tough gaunlet of games to get through regional play. I do not hammer Roseau too much on the schedule that is hard to adjust when distance of travel is factored in. Geographically it is what it is, you simply cannot do much to adjust schedules based on Roseau's location. It is not like high school sports have endless budgets to haul kids great distances. Simply put Roseau is a long ways from anywhere and at $2.99 a gallon it is expensive. Heck it is 3.5 hours from Roseau to Grand Rapids add another 80 minutes to Duluth. 3 hours to Moorhead. Would it be nice to have Roseau come to the metro for a holiday tournament indeed but that time of year the program slows down a bit at the youth level and hosts a home tournament for the alums and families to enjoy, it is tradition and God love 'em for that. What little I do know of Roseau it is as well a deeply religious community so taking some time off at Christmas only makes most logical sense.
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Re: G&W

Post by Neutron 14 »

O-townClown wrote: Edina has played as tough a slate as anyone...

Seriously, their schedule is as tough as any ...
Centennials is tougher... :P
O-townClown wrote:
I thought Edina would have put the schedule crap to bed when people realized:
#1 NO team played in the Edina Holiday Tournament and Gold Division of Schwan Cup...
Only one was asked to, so the point is moot. The fact that they played in the Silver means they weren't "busy".
O-townClown wrote:
#2 The Silver Division had as many Top Ten teams (Edina 1, STA 5, BSM 6, Blaine 8) as the Gold (Minnetonka 2, Hill-Murray 4, Centennial 7, Duluth East 10) if you measure by the same PS2 rank. Gold had more between 11-20 though.
Edinas intent to play in the Silver and not Gold, was to avoid the best teams. Using an "after the fact" argument, even justifying that the Silver was almost as good as the Gold, is lame. The intent was to duck the best teams. Period.
The only soft spot I see is the one between my legs
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Re: O- Clown

Post by O-townClown »

northwoods oldtimer wrote:O-Clown you do have some spare time to come up with quite a survey and great emotion for the emerald city hornets. However the game that we all would like to see might be tough for both clubs to get to on Saturday night. Edina has a very tough gaunlet of games to get through regional play. I do not hammer Roseau too much on the schedule that is hard to adjust when distance of travel is factored in. Geographically it is what it is, you simply cannot do much to adjust schedules based on Roseau's location. It is not like high school sports have endless budgets to haul kids great distances. Simply put Roseau is a long ways from anywhere and at $2.99 a gallon it is expensive. Heck it is 3.5 hours from Roseau to Grand Rapids add another 80 minutes to Duluth. 3 hours to Moorhead. Would it be nice to have Roseau come to the metro for a holiday tournament indeed but that time of year the program slows down a bit at the youth level and hosts a home tournament for the alums and families to enjoy, it is tradition and God love 'em for that. What little I do know of Roseau it is as well a deeply religious community so taking some time off at Christmas only makes most logical sense.
Northwoods:

Florida's 6A basketball final in 2003 was the equivalent of Roseau-Edina this year, so I'm holding out hope it can happen. You are right, there are a lot of games before.

Gas could be free and Roseau will still not easily play the places you mention for the other reasons you mention. It is just too far to get to them. Or, actually, Roseau is just too remote.

Roseau does everything right. Dead on comment about the hometown holiday tournament.
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Neut

Post by O-townClown »

Neut, Edina's intention to play Silver to avoid "the best teams" may be the case, but can you blame them.

This is like knocking an SEC East football team for scheduling soft OOC games. OF COURSE they do when they already face Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida each year with a dose of LSU or Alabama thrown in.

One point about Centennial's SOS. Unlike Edina, they didn't beat all but one of those tough teams on their dance card.

We'll see what happens. I saw Edina's Bantams cave in and play passionless hockey to go down 4-3 to Centennial two years ago. Up 3-0, the lead slipped away and I didn't see a sense of urgency. My friend said I was being unduly harsh. Looked like an embarrassing collapse to me. Perhaps Centennial avenges that (and this season's loss) at the X.
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Post by Neutron 14 »

O-town, Centennial is one of two teams that KNOWS it can beat Edina. There are more, but do they know it? Edina is intimidating...

Centennials section is the PS2 toughest, Edina's 3rd.

Back to topic, the odds of Edina meeting Roseau in the 'ship are small. And I'm happy about that! :lol:
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can't wait

Post by O-townClown »

Neutron 14 wrote:
Centennials section is the PS2 toughest, Edina's 3rd.
What, in average?

The toughest "path" is 6AA or 2AA. Both have four Top 20 teams from AA. (Pretty sure. It fluctuates each time they update.)

Centennial probably has a harder Section Quarter opponent than Roseau or Edina, but in a 1/8 seeded game who cares? For the best teams the tournament starts at Section Semis, for Roseau not until the Section Final. If even then. (Can Moorhead do it?)

Edina has to beat two from a list of Jefferson, Holy Angels, and Burnsville. Centennial's path might be as hard, but not harder.

The path in 6AA is rough if you are Eden Prairie. Probably Benilde and Minnetonka. No 5AA team will face as daunting a proposition.

Will be interesting. For sure.
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Post by wishock »

A stab at number 7. The sequence seems to start with the Edina - Roseau scores at state in 77, 78, and 79. Don't know after that. Are you looking for a score prediction if Edina and Roseau meet at state? I don't know enough about Roseau hockey to answer most of the other questions. All I know is that I have loved following this team this year, and have very much enjoyed meeting some of the players and visiting with them. What a great bunch of kids.
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Re: can't wait

Post by Neutron 14 »

O-townClown wrote:
Neutron 14 wrote:
Centennials section is the PS2 toughest, Edina's 3rd.
What, in average?
Last word.....
The only soft spot I see is the one between my legs
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Post by The_Phantom_Enigma »

1. c
2. a
3. b
4. a
5. a
6. a
7. I Have No Idea
8. b
9. a
10. a
[--Phantom Of The North Rink--]
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Re: Bravo Bob

Post by rams1989 »

All history books count Edina with 9. You can check.

nine > SEVEN

Clown, the book that matters is the record book for the Mn State High School League. That book says International Falls has 7 titles and Roseau has 7 titles. That same book says Edina has 6 and Edina East has 3. Maybe you'd like to add Bloomington Jefferson's championships to Edina's totals as well, or maybe Burnsville, or while you're at it, add Hill Murray's total to it to if it makes you feel better.

If Bloomington Kennedy closes their school, should Bloomington Jefferson get to add all the Bloomington Kennedy records to their own?

I didn't think so.
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Re: Bravo Bob

Post by east hockey »

O-townClown wrote:
east hockey wrote:
O-townClown wrote: All history books count Edina with 9. You can check.
Go to this link:

http://mshsl.org/mshsl/activitypage.asp?actnum=410

Then click on "Yearbook and Record Book"

Look on page 187 and you'll find: "Most Championships: 7 International Falls; Roseau"
Lee, same link. Go to page 181 and count. Nine. Still.
The State League regards Edina East as a seperate school from Edina. This is why they list their championships seperately. This is why they don't show them with nine.

Is this topic about Edina or Roseau, anyway? I understand your deep affection for Edina but you need to understand it's not shared by many on this Board. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

The link I posted, which you then tried to respond with "yabbut", is the record. Why are you trying to confuse the issue? Why is this so seemingly...vital to you?

Lee
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Re: Bravo Bob

Post by east hockey »

rams1989 wrote:All history books count Edina with 9. You can check.

nine > SEVEN

Clown, the book that matters is the record book for the Mn State High School League. That book says International Falls has 7 titles and Roseau has 7 titles. That same book says Edina has 6 and Edina East has 3. Maybe you'd like to add Bloomington Jefferson's championships to Edina's totals as well, or maybe Burnsville, or while you're at it, add Hill Murray's total to it to if it makes you feel better.

If Bloomington Kennedy closes their school, should Bloomington Jefferson get to add all the Bloomington Kennedy records to their own?

I didn't think so.
After they close Duluth Central, I want to add their totals to East's. Oh wait; East is still at three. Darn it. Image

Lee
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Post by spin-o-rama »

Otown's original claim was that the Edina community had more championships.

If Edina hadn't split into East and West then they would probably have 14 or 15 banners.

If you are not counting Edina East's banners for Edina then you are claiming that there was no Edina HS from '72-'81. That is not true. Edina HS on Highway 100 was renamed Edina East when Edina West opened in '72. Same school and same coach. No transfers. High School League has it wrong.
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Post by east hockey »

spin-o-rama wrote:Otown's original claim was that the Edina community had more championships.

If Edina hadn't split into East and West then they would probably have 14 or 15 banners.

If you are not counting Edina East's banners for Edina then you are claiming that there was no Edina HS from '72-'81. That is not true. Edina HS on Highway 100 was renamed Edina East when Edina West opened in '72. Same school and same coach. No transfers. High School League has it wrong.
Has anyone ever bothered to contact the MSHSL regarding this? If so, what was their response?

If that was O-towns original claim (and I'm too tired to go back and look), then I'm wrong and I apologize.

Lee
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Wishock

Post by O-townClown »

wishock wrote:A stab at number 7. The sequence seems to start with the Edina - Roseau scores at state in 77, 78, and 79. Don't know after that. Are you looking for a score prediction if Edina and Roseau meet at state? I don't know enough about Roseau hockey to answer most of the other questions. All I know is that I have loved following this team this year, and have very much enjoyed meeting some of the players and visiting with them. What a great bunch of kids.
Wis, the hostility from Roseau toward Edina is justified. The last 7 times they met at state it was six wins for Edina - three were 2-goal margisns and three were downright ugly. I played Roseau in Pee Wees and nobody told us to be afraid of them. Quite the contrary. We thought it was pretty neat to play a small, pure hockey town that was pretty different from where we grew up. I remember their roster had a lot of kids that were cousins. I never saw my cousins growing up.

One person predicted 1-0, but most have avoided the question - as have I. I have no idea what would happen if Edina met Roseau. None at all. But I'd pay good money to see it. It would be a great climax to the season, just like last year when two northern teams met. Every year has a great championship, but some are a little more memorable than others.

For all the people that say they'll rejoice when Edina and/or Roseau get knocked off on the way to the final, I'll go on record for saying I hope like heck they both make it so the two can play.

Mark my words. If they play one team will win, one will lose, and there won't be a single person from either community complaining at all. It'll be sad, but it'll also be special. The other thing you'll see is scores of "neutral parties" trying to bait anyone partial to the losers into making excuses so they can say I told you so.

For the record, the years are 77-78-79 like you mention, then 81-83-84 and 98. For a while there Roseau playing a team from Edina was a regular occurrence.
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I'll let you treasure that book

Post by O-townClown »

rams1989 wrote:All history books count Edina with 9. You can check.

nine > SEVEN

Clown, the book that matters is the record book for the Mn State High School League. That book says International Falls has 7 titles and Roseau has 7 titles. That same book says Edina has 6 and Edina East has 3. Maybe you'd like to add Bloomington Jefferson's championships to Edina's totals as well, or maybe Burnsville, or while you're at it, add Hill Murray's total to it to if it makes you feel better.

If Bloomington Kennedy closes their school, should Bloomington Jefferson get to add all the Bloomington Kennedy records to their own?

I didn't think so.
Ram, how would titles won by schools from Bloomington or Burnsville be reflective of a different school system?

You are really hung up on what schools are called. When White Bear Lake split they kept the White Bear name and added Mariner. Then they consolidated back. Would you feel any different if Edina kept the school name and called the new school New Edina HS? Then the MSHSL would have 9 under Edina and 0 under New Edina. What's the difference?

I don't need to feel any better, I feel fine. If you need to feel better you can say Edina has no championships. Kind of a Mychal-Thompson-sold-his-tickets-or-Clem-didn't-make-me-do-my-homework thing. TITLE VACATED. Certainly someone has cheated. Those kids in the 70s had long hair; I bet they violated the anti-tobacco rules.

If Jefferson and Kennedy merge, unlikely to go from 3 HS to 1 but you asked, the answer to how many titles Bloomington has won would absolutely be the total of Lincoln (0), Jefferson (5?), and Kennedy (2?). HERE'S THE THING: the schools DON'T have to merge. It is the same answer?

How many titles has Bloomington won? Total them up and it is what it is. If you want to ask whether it was the East side or "prestigious West Bloomington" go ahead.

Do you really care which side of Hwy 100 Zach Budish lives on?
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Lee

Post by O-townClown »

east hockey wrote:The State League regards Edina East as a seperate school from Edina. This is why they list their championships seperately. This is why they don't show them with nine.

Is this topic about Edina or Roseau, anyway? I understand your deep affection for Edina but you need to understand it's not shared by many on this Board. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

The link I posted, which you then tried to respond with "yabbut", is the record. Why are you trying to confuse the issue? Why is this so seemingly...vital to you?

Lee
Lee, this is pretty simple. Edina has won a certain number of titles. What is the number? That number is 9. If you want to split hairs between what schools are called go ahead. If the state HS league has policies regarding how schools register with them that's great. If it really matters to people that Edina chose the intriguing names East and West instead of Harriet Tubman and John Glenn that's their hangup.

There is a city in Minnesota named White Bear Lake. It has a school district. And a hockey program. If someone asked me about good players to come out of White Bear Lake I'd surely include Fishback (I think that's his name). Is he not from White Bear Lake because Mariner was located somewhere else? No, he's from White Bear Lake.

If you or anyone else doesn't like Edina, that's your hangup. I haven't done anything in the two threads I started other than point out an obvious (strong cases can be made for considering Roseau or Edina #1) and ask opinions on questions designed for require thought for historical perspective. If Roseau faithful don't like the fact they've only (probably not the right word choice) won 7 state titles - a remarkable achievement - while Edina has won 9 or if they choose to ignore history that shows both communities have sent great teams to state that failed to win it all that's their damage.

THIS topic was a questionnaire to gauge sentiment, which was pretty telling. Several opinions are grounded and vary quite different from a lot of the drunk-guy-on-the-barstool type braggadoccio seen in other "smack" type threads. What has triggered this inane discourse is that I made an off-the-cuff comment about how trash-talking directed toward Roseau generally works better when your community has won more titles than they have, and some dain bramaged folks have tried to explain to me how 7 is more than 9. IMPORTANT TO NOTE - I haven't trash talked Roseau at all! They have a great team, a great chance to repeat, and the whole town should be proud.

This isn't vital to me at all. Quite the contrary. There is nothing to argue here because it is impossible to change a fact. Edina High has 9 trophies in it (or they might have them on display at Braemar...I can't recall) - where did they come from? Williard Ikola was coach for a long time. Where? Edina. If your wife changes her name to Jan Brady tomorrow you wouldn't say I've been married to my wife for less than a year. She's still your wife. (*rimshot*)

You posted some link and I haven't argued at all. You seem to want to change the topic to something else. If you want to talk about what a Minnesota State High School record book recognizes as most titles won by a school go ahead. Just leave me out of it and you can go debate with the effin' wall. I've seen the programs where they list by school and that's fine. I've never mentioned anything about counting by school, that's something you and BIAFP did. The question is how many titles has Edina won and that answer is 9. Really, I wish I could give you another answer like 2 or 4 or 6 or 3 so people in Roseau feel better. Edina's won 9. Bloomington's probably won 7. Does it really matter? Not to me. I just like following sports.
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Spin-o-Rama's post

Post by O-townClown »

east hockey wrote:
spin-o-rama wrote:Otown's original claim was that the Edina community had more championships.

If Edina hadn't split into East and West then they would probably have 14 or 15 banners.

If you are not counting Edina East's banners for Edina then you are claiming that there was no Edina HS from '72-'81. That is not true. Edina HS on Highway 100 was renamed Edina East when Edina West opened in '72. Same school and same coach. No transfers. High School League has it wrong.
Has anyone ever bothered to contact the MSHSL regarding this? If so, what was their response?

If that was O-towns original claim (and I'm too tired to go back and look), then I'm wrong and I apologize.

Lee
Lee, that was the claim. No need to apologize. Spinner's close of "HS League has it wrong" is probably a bit strong because I have no idea what goes on between a district and the administrative body when they open a school and later contract back.

A plausible scenario is this:
The HS League could have said that it was Edina's choice to continue on with Edina High and add a new school and the School Board could easily have opted to say no. "Let's start anew!" Not wanting to burden either with the stigma of being a lesser or "second" school, two new schools were "created" in the eyes of MSHSL. (Created in quotes because only one new school was created, the West campus and present day EHS.)

The fact that you and BIAFP care about this puzzles me. Oh well, you might say the same toward me.

I don't know if anyone has ever contacted MSHSL. With all the state titles Edina has won, usually in things like girl's tennis, I'm sure they'd just laugh if someone actually told them they were undercrediting Edina's accomplishments. Their archives are right. Edina shows 9 times for boys hockey - three as Edina East when the schools were split, two before the merger, and four after. Lots of pressure on this year's juniors to make it 10 before the graduate. Anything less will be a disappointment. They know it, nobody's complaining, and life is good.

P.S. Spinner - ARE YOU NUTS!! Edina managed three titles in 10 years when the schools were split and you think they left some on the table?! Just when you think a merged school is "unbeatable" at state because 1982 and 1984 were so good, remember 1983 - just as good but beat. No, I'm not sure a merged West and East would have made much difference. The teams East sent (and West in 1981) were all very good and one more top-line guy probably wouldn't have changed things and the depth was there so that there weren't cases of a weak 3rd line hurting anyone.
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Post by BIAFP »

Clown- I am going to take a leap of faith here and assume you are not as ignorant as your comments regarding state titles. The records are by "school" and Edina has 6, Roseau and I. Falls have 7. Yes Edina East has three. They don't combine all the schools in St. Paul either :roll:
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Post by yasoguy »

**What Otown just said is the most insanely idiodic thing I have ever heard.... Everyone on this thread is now dumber for having read it.**
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