MN. players taking the leap; schools feeling trampled.

[RFFalcon22]

I agree with you 100% Mainefan. So many people think playing in the USHL is the "golden ticket" to getting into a DI school and then moving onto the pros. The USHL will prepare kids for playing college hockey, but it is not always going to be DI; some kids move on to play DIII or minor pro hockey. The problem is everyone is worried about their kid moving to next level quicker, when in reality for every kid playing DI that moves on to the NHL or minor pro there are at least 7-8 kids who's careers end once they finish up with college hockey. Kids should quit rushing to move on to the next point in their hockey careers and just enjoy the ride because its over before you know it!

Just my two cents.

[goldy313]

The USHL is first and foremost a business, deveolping players is a nice bonus but it's not what they're around for. Hockey is the only sport that the NCAA allows kids to play after high school and still be eligible. The USHL really runs the line of whether these kids are amateurs or not and if some of the East coast schools put up enough of a stink the NCAA would have to really look hard into this. Fortunatly for the junior leagues hockey is a fringe sport and if nearly everyone is doing it they're ok with that. If this happened in basketball (a developmental league that took 18-20 year olds and put them in a situation where at best they'd stay in college for only a year before turning pro) which really brings in a lot of revenue for the NCAA they'd close that loophole in a second.

[darkdemon]

We set these kids up to think that they are superstars the minute they put the skates on and get a little recognition for making some goals. Juniors lure these kids, most of them albeit better than an average high schooler, but no where near NHL ability to play so the kids with real potential have someone to play against while they develop.We keep lists of how many Minnesotans have gone on the pros but have we ever counted the numbers of kids who went through the USHL only to end up on a rink to nowhere. Kids should stay in high school play with their buddies and if they are good enough they will get to play in college and then maybe the pros. My opinion and I am sticking to it.

I agree with you too I mean some of the most fun I had in high school is playing sports with my buddies who many still are my buddies years after high school. High School especially your senior year is a special time i wouldn't trade it for anything because you spent years though school with these people and its the last time you are all together. Don't waste that oppertunity.

[mainefan]

The USHL is first and foremost a business, deveolping players is a nice bonus but it's not what they're around for. Hockey is the only sport that the NCAA allows kids to play after high school and still be eligible. The USHL really runs the line of whether these kids are amateurs or not and if some of the East coast schools put up enough of a stink the NCAA would have to really look hard into this. Fortunatly for the junior leagues hockey is a fringe sport and if nearly everyone is doing it they're ok with that. If this happened in basketball (a developmental league that took 18-20 year olds and put them in a situation where at best they'd stay in college for only a year before turning pro) which really brings in a lot of revenue for the NCAA they'd close that loophole in a second.

From what i know of East Coast hockey, the kids are encouraged to go to juniors or prep school for a year in order to play-if they make a team- any college hockey, D1 or D3. If juniors was shut down due to eligibility requirements, most east coasters would be in for a rude awakening-except for Mass. prep schools and a handful of public schools. I don't care what anybody says, there is no way they can compete with the high school hockey culture in the Midwest unless they have something like juniors to develop their skills. You can't even find an outdoor rink to play pick up on the east coast; how is a kid supposed to compete with a kid who can go and play pick up whenever he/she feels like it? You are right the USHL is a business - the business of leading kids on that it is a launch pad into pros and it is the kids who will suffer. How old will they be when they figure that out? 25-26? Then what? Is an acountant or lawyer's.... career done at age 25? Maybe if they are lucky.

[Don't_Cost_Nothin]

Funny how a bunch of never-were's such as myself, can judge these kids and their choices of where to play hockey.

Why the rush to get to the next level? Because you are only one injury away from ending your carreer. The sooner you can cash in on your ability the better. Cashing in can also include a scholarship to play college hockey. It does not always have to be the NHL money. If skipping my senior year of HS would have meant a full-ride in college I would have gladly taken it. Someone asked for the math it goes like this $+$+$$ in one form or another.

As for the coach not letting Hansen play on the team? How many other coaches let kids from other high schools come practice with them? While Hansen is playing USHL hockey he is still enrolled at another high school. Next year when he is playing at the next level i.e. College it may be a different story.

Just my 2 cents

[tourneytickssince59]

Funny how a bunch of never-were's such as myself, can judge these kids and their choices of where to play hockey.

Why the rush to get to the next level? Because you are only one injury away from ending your carreer. The sooner you can cash in on your ability the better. Cashing in can also include a scholarship to play college hockey. It does not always have to be the NHL money. If skipping my senior year of HS would have meant a full-ride in college I would have gladly taken it. Someone asked for the math it goes like this $+$+$$ in one form or another.

As for the coach not letting Hansen play on the team? How many other coaches let kids from other high schools come practice with them? While Hansen is playing USHL hockey he is still enrolled at another high school. Next year when he is playing at the next level i.e. College it may be a different story.

Just my 2 cents

Agreed!! It is the desire to get to the next level that fuels this. If advancing in your career meant moving to another company, would you consider it? You bet your bottom dollar you would.

[The Exiled One]

Mark my vote in the "let the kid do what's best for himself" column.

Let's see, one kid has the opportunity to play in the Elite League, then for his high school team which has the 101st most difficult schedule (out of 154).

Another kid has the opportunity to play in the Elite League, then for his high school team which has the 2nd most difficult schedule.

The first kid plays in the USHL (booooo, shame on him). The second kid plays his senior year in high school (hooray, this kid is staying true to his community!!).

Come on people, the choice isn't the same for every kid, it completely depends on their individual situations. Ten to twelve every year isn't going to destroy high school hockey in Minnesota, get serious.

[gopherhockey1234]

Hey Darkemon, I'm going to guess that you never got asked to move up to the next level. Until you have been asked you have no idea
what you would do. Minnesota high school hockey is very good, and I'm not saying that the USHL, NAHL, or Shattuck is for every one, but I will tell you that these leauges have given a whole bunch of kids a chance. If you get asked to play in one of these leagues as a senior, and want to keep playing you will have a better chance to get a scholorship if you leave your Senior year. It is not easy to make these hard life choices but the kids that do leave there buddies usally wind up with a scholorship. een a

[Mite-dad]

Funny how a bunch of never-were's such as myself, can judge these kids and their choices of where to play hockey.

Why the rush to get to the next level? Because you are only one injury away from ending your carreer. The sooner you can cash in on your ability the better. Cashing in can also include a scholarship to play college hockey. It does not always have to be the NHL money. If skipping my senior year of HS would have meant a full-ride in college I would have gladly taken it. Someone asked for the math it goes like this $+$+$$ in one form or another.

As for the coach not letting Hansen play on the team? How many other coaches let kids from other high schools come practice with them? While Hansen is playing USHL hockey he is still enrolled at another high school. Next year when he is playing at the next level i.e. College it may be a different story.

Just my 2 cents

I can see your point here, but, on the other hand, rushing to a higher level of hockey when you are so young and probably still growing may be increasing your probability of a career ending injury.

[Blue&Gold]

Mark my vote in the "let the kid do what's best for himself" column.

Let's see, one kid has the opportunity to play in the Elite League, then for his high school team which has the 101st most difficult schedule (out of 154).

Another kid has the opportunity to play in the Elite League, then for his high school team which has the 2nd most difficult schedule.

The first kid plays in the USHL (booooo, shame on him). The second kid plays his senior year in high school (hooray, this kid is staying true to his community!!).

Come on people, the choice isn't the same for every kid, it completely depends on their individual situations. Ten to twelve every year isn't going to destroy high school hockey in Minnesota, get serious.

This is the best response that I've seen on this subject.

Unless you've gone through this exact situation, you have no idea what you're talking about. For some to go early, it makes perfect sense for multiple reasons. For some to stay, they have their reasons. There are NO absolutes...

Would the Northern Wooden Bat League for baseball be similar to the juniors for hockey? The kids live with housing families and play baseball in a league all summer... Just thinking.

[The Exiled One]

Mark my vote in the "let the kid do what's best for himself" column.

Let's see, one kid has the opportunity to play in the Elite League, then for his high school team which has the 101st most difficult schedule (out of 154).

Another kid has the opportunity to play in the Elite League, then for his high school team which has the 2nd most difficult schedule.

The first kid plays in the USHL (booooo, shame on him). The second kid plays his senior year in high school (hooray, this kid is staying true to his community!!).

Come on people, the choice isn't the same for every kid, it completely depends on their individual situations. Ten to twelve every year isn't going to destroy high school hockey in Minnesota, get serious.

This is the best response that I've seen on this subject.

Unless you've gone through this exact situation, you have no idea what you're talking about. For some to go early, it makes perfect sense for multiple reasons. For some to stay, they have their reasons. There are NO absolutes...

Thanks, and for those who're too lazy to look it up, Little Falls has the 101st most difficult schedule. Virginia has the 84th most difficult schedule, Hermantown had the 64th most difficult schedule, and Hopkins had the 52nd most difficult schedule.

The 2nd most difficult schedule belongs to Minnetonka, but I just threw that one out there because none of the top four lost anybody to the USHL, though players on each of those teams could have bolted.

The 5th most difficult schedule belongs to Duluth East, so if anybody wants to rail a kid for leaving early, it's the Greyhound fans.

[dherman8]

Mark my vote in the "let the kid do what's best for himself" column.

Let's see, one kid has the opportunity to play in the Elite League, then for his high school team which has the 101st most difficult schedule (out of 154).

Another kid has the opportunity to play in the Elite League, then for his high school team which has the 2nd most difficult schedule.

The first kid plays in the USHL (booooo, shame on him). The second kid plays his senior year in high school (hooray, this kid is staying true to his community!!).

Come on people, the choice isn't the same for every kid, it completely depends on their individual situations. Ten to twelve every year isn't going to destroy high school hockey in Minnesota, get serious.

This is the best response that I've seen on this subject.

Unless you've gone through this exact situation, you have no idea what you're talking about. For some to go early, it makes perfect sense for multiple reasons. For some to stay, they have their reasons. There are NO absolutes...

Thanks, and for those who're too lazy to look it up, Little Falls has the 101st most difficult schedule. Virginia has the 84th most difficult schedule, Hermantown had the 64th most difficult schedule, and Hopkins had the 52nd most difficult schedule.

The 2nd most difficult schedule belongs to Minnetonka, but I just threw that one out there because none of the top four lost anybody to the USHL, though players on each of those teams could have bolted.

The 5th most difficult schedule belongs to Duluth East, so if anybody wants to rail a kid for leaving early, it's the Greyhound fans.

Great response. I agree totally. I am a big LF fan and i'm not going to deny that i'm still bitter about Jared Festler leaving but hey, you have to support him because of the Exiled One's arguments. He's trying to better his career. But then there are the arguments of missing the whole high school experience. But hey, it could go either way and its a tough decision. Oh well.

[karl(east)]

Duluth East certainly seems to be the odd school here. Having lost one player each of the past 3 seasons is a significant number for what is generally an excellent program, and it makes us East fans wonder about what could have been, with 2 more years of Cade Fairchild and one more of Podge Turnbull and Keegan Flaherty. As a team and a fanbase, you simply have to move on and make do with what's left (which is quite a bit, in East's case). The first two I understood a bit, especially Turnbull, who was from Hayward, WI and didn't really have many Duluth ties. Flaherty's departure was a bit more shocking and made me wonder what's going on behind the scenes of East hockey a bit more. But I still have a lot of confidence in Mike Randolph, and though I don't think leaving is the right choice, I understand that it's theirs to make and I'm going to wish them the best of luck wherever they end up.

[east hockey]

Duluth East certainly seems to be the odd school here. Having lost one player each of the past 3 seasons is a significant number for what is generally an excellent program, and it makes us East fans wonder about what could have been, with 2 more years of Cade Fairchild and one more of Podge Turnbull and Keegan Flaherty. As a team and a fanbase, you simply have to move on and make do with what's left (which is quite a bit, in East's case). The first two I understood a bit, especially Turnbull, who was from Hayward, WI and didn't really have many Duluth ties. Flaherty's departure was a bit more shocking and made me wonder what's going on behind the scenes of East hockey a bit more. But I still have a lot of confidence in Mike Randolph, and though I don't think leaving is the right choice, I understand that it's theirs to make and I'm going to wish them the best of luck wherever they end up.

The list goes back to 1998, when Patrick Finnegan left a year early. Besides the ones you mentioned, they also lost Jon Hedberg, Tom Sawatske and Zach Fitzgerald. Their losses had been limited to defensemen prior to Podge and Keegan leaving.

Going on behind the scenes? Same as any school; kids think they need this particular step in order to increase their chances of a D-1 offer and perhaps beyond. In some cases, parents are instrumental. Does it work? Do they later regret giving up that final senior year? How do you measure that statistically?

In Keegan's case, he has four goals and no assists in 35 games playing for a last place team. Was his goal (whatever it was) helped? One example.

In Cade's case, it appears to be a good move, and he has a good chance of winding up in the NHL. But a player like him would've had a chance even if he'd stayed at East. I happen to agree with his decision to leave early. Ann Arbor helped his game immensely. Watching him in person at tDECC was evidence of that.

As for the others leaving East, where are they today? (Well, we know where Podge is....wearing Bucky Red....heh heh) To ask the question again, how do they feel today about the decision they made then? Regrets or not?

It's a mixed bag.

Lee

[O-townClown]

Earlier this season I mentioned schedule strength as a determining factor in leaving for NTDP and Blog told me I was off base. Sure seems to me like a kid at Budish or Gardiner's level isn't as likely to bolt playing on their teams as they would if they played for Little Falls.

USHL or NTDP.

Budish stayed at home, was 2nd Team All-Metro on Edina's best FB team in decades, and is a leader on one of the state's top H teams. Sounds like fun to me.

I'm sure there are a few cute girls in Ann Arbor and Sioux City, but it has to be more fun living where you grew up when you are 16. That's a little young to move away.

[Gopher Blog]

Earlier this season I mentioned schedule strength as a determining factor in leaving for NTDP and Blog told me I was off base. Sure seems to me like a kid at Budish or Gardiner's level isn't as likely to bolt playing on their teams as they would if they played for Little Falls.

I guess I don't recall telling you that. At least, not about that specific point. Maybe I didn't clearly communicate to you what I meant (which is entirely possible )

I have generally said that every situation is unique and there isn't one "right" answer for every kid. Which is why I usually bristle when people act like leaving is always a bad thing. It is up to the kid and his parents to honestly assess things. Some kids are cut out for it, others are not.

The only thing I know I have really disputed in the past is when the occasional poster states that kids are "told" to leave their HS early by their future college coach. I can't speak for them all but I know this doesn't happen with the Gophers as I have asked numerous Gopher parents on their experience and they all said they were never pushed to do anything (and that came from parents that had kids stay in HS until graduation as well as kids who left for junior hockey before they graduated).

[winger91]

Why should he let him skate? He left the program.

Because coaches should care about the kids they coach and want them to make decisions that are best for the KIDS future not the coaches future. I think it was petty and mean not to let him skate. There is nothing wrong with players making choices that takes them closer to their career goals. It's a ridiculous notion that these kids owe anything other than their thanks to the programs that brought them up.

[hipcheck]

Lets get a team composed of 15 elite players whose goal is only doing whats best for their career.

Then lets get a team of 15 good, but not elite, players whose goal is the team winning.

Which team do you want to coach?

How many high school coaches are trying to get the team to win, but have a few elite individuals who only want to advance their career?

[The Exiled One]

Lets get a team composed of 15 elite players whose goal is only doing whats best for their career.

Then lets get a team of 15 good, but not elite, players whose goal is the team winning.

Which team do you want to coach?

How many high school coaches are trying to get the team to win, but have a few elite individuals who only want to advance their career?

I'll take option C, kids who want to win with their team as well as in their careers. There are a lot of these kind of kids. In fact, I'd wager they're the vast majority.

[packerboy]

We have become victims of our own success.

Instead of focusing on the "loss" of these players, it might better to sit back and be proud of what MNHockey programs and high school hockey programs have done to develop players to this level of skill than to mourn them leaving.

We should take a great deal of satisfaction in seeing these kids move up and on and welcome them when they return to visit rather than begrudge their accomplishments.

So, when some college coach like Gopher Blog's hero, who never lifted a finger, takes the podium and rips parents and coaches of the kids that become the product of our programs........ go coach at an orphange. Sorry I just can't let it go.

[gopherhockey1234]

Packerboy great point.

[goldy313]

Wood bat leagues and Junior hockey are aples and oranges

The summer wood bat leagues are "pay to play" leagues, more along the lines of Junior B (Junior A Tier 3). There is some bit of irony here, the NCAA has made it clear that is how it needs to be, but at the same time the wood bat leagues are lilly white and many college coaches from traditionally black schools see an inherit racism in a pay to play league where only the well to do kids can afford to play in these leagues. Most D1 baseball programs have somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12 scholarships meaning almost no one gets a full ride and kids need to work in the offseason to be able to afford college. You end with an system that rewards the wealthy for no other reason than they are wealthy. There's not a coach in the NCAA that wouldn't want their kids to be able to play in those leagues though.

Also a wood bat league runs after the college baseball season ends and players aren't in them to develop prior to going to college.

[Don't_Cost_Nothin]

So, when some college coach like Gopher Blog's hero, who never lifted a finger, takes the podium and rips parents and coaches of the kids that become the product of our programs........ go coach at an orphange. Sorry I just can't let it go.

I don't think said coach has ever had an issue with the kids leaving. His issues have been with the manner they have decided to do so. In my mind leaving in the middle of something is not the proper way to handle yourself. I also don't believe that telling the coach you are going to stay and then behind his back leave is OK.

[packerboy]

So, when some college coach like Gopher Blog's hero, who never lifted a finger, takes the podium and rips parents and coaches of the kids that become the product of our programs........ go coach at an orphange. Sorry I just can't let it go.

I don't think said coach has ever had an issue with the kids leaving. His issues have been with the manner they have decided to do so. In my mind leaving in the middle of something is not the proper way to handle yourself. I also don't believe that telling the coach you are going to stay and then behind his back leave is OK.

Gopher Blog's hero from Wayzata is typical. He gets all bent out of shape when he is affected but doesnt give a flying flip if a kid, includung his own, leaves a high school program so he can be better prepared to play for the Gophers.

I dont buy into all of the angst about mid season. College coaches recruit kids to play for them and then leave for a few dollars at the drop of a hat every day.

We expect all of this loyality from these kids when all they see their whole lives is everybody grabbing at better opportunities.

Just be glad fo their success and proud if you played some small part in it.

[winger91]

So, when some college coach like Gopher Blog's hero, who never lifted a finger, takes the podium and rips parents and coaches of the kids that become the product of our programs........ go coach at an orphange. Sorry I just can't let it go.

I don't think said coach has ever had an issue with the kids leaving. His issues have been with the manner they have decided to do so. In my mind leaving in the middle of something is not the proper way to handle yourself. I also don't believe that telling the coach you are going to stay and then behind his back leave is OK.

Gopher Blog's hero from Wayzata is typical. He gets all bent out of shape when he is affected but doesnt give a flying flip if a kid, includung his own, leaves a high school program so he can be better prepared to play for the Gophers.

I dont buy into all of the angst about mid season. College coaches recruit kids to play for them and then leave for a few dollars at the drop of a hat every day.

We expect all of this loyality from these kids when all they see their whole lives is everybody grabbing at better opportunities.

Just be glad fo their success and proud if you played some small part in it.

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