Austin vs. Breck Any thoughts

[Twinnesota]

It's semi-final games like this that hurt the legitamacy of the girls state (particularly 1a) tournament. These are NOT the best 8 teams in the state. Each team in this tournament took, essentially, a different route to get to the X. Take a look a the scores in 2A. Pretty evenly matched. Take a look at 1A, there were certainly lopsided games. Sections will not be realligned, a third class will not be added, and TV will not cover opening round games as long as this continues. Good luck Alex!

IMHO someone should apologize to all the real fans of high school girls hockey for the quoted post as well as some of the posts from both "sides".

There are very few high school team sport that I know of where the BEST teams are always in the state tournament. If the top 8 teams in the State were always chosen for a final playoff, how boring would that be?
Look who won the Super Bowl....not the BEST team.

High school sports do not really matter in the long run for 99% of the participants after all, but it is certainly fun for the players, parents, and fans to get behind their teams. Girls hockey is about fun, teamwork, leadership, and life skills development. There are no girls pro hockey players, but many of these young ladies will become leaders in their communities, partly because of their involvement in sports.

Lighten up!!

T

[PuxRinmyblood]

Twinnesota has this nailed. Those Austin girls worked as hard as anyone else to win their section and get to the X. Hopefully they will remember the experience forever. Losing one game to what amounts to an all-star team should not define them.

Arguments about "legitimacy" get very old. There is no way to ensure that the "best" teams get to the state tournament other than perhaps seeding based on a ranking system, which would really get people steamed.

As an aside, anyone who follows this forum probably knows that the 1A crowd is as passionate as anyone, and probably more so. I'm always very impressed by how much the southern folks get behind girls hockey....(and they STILL have the funniest posts on this "bored").

Congratulations to Austin on an excellent year. Don't hang your heads ladies!

[winger91]

8 quality teams. thats pretty harsh. i know the girls on this team they played there hearts out. eight teams from the state made it... the best eight thats why its called state ya prick..

Thank you Southland....Breck has the best team money can buy in the Twin Cities..TRUE???? They should move to AA to show how good money can buy a championship at that level, too.

Again with the money. Really, don't you people get tired of playing the same old record again and again and again?????? Geez. Most of those girls have gone to that school their whole lives, I have been at my school since 7th grade, (another private Catholic school, because my parents wanted me to have religion be a part of my academic life) so I guess we are all just bad kids with bad parents who somehow saw that as five year olds we were going to be really good at Hockey. You people need to get over your inferiority complexes and just enjoy the game and remember we are also just kids who put the same time and effort in as you, if you are a kid, and if you are an adult, like a lot of people on her, picking on kids, well, that's just sad for you.

[winger91]

there playing for third tommorow thats pretty bad. i believe breck is a private school.. wait a minute.. cant they recruit.. austin plays tough every game so what if they lost. i cant believe someone would say a team playin for third isn't one of the best

Recruiting is against the rules! And besides... public schools can ALSO recruit.

And do.

[Sioux Rule]

Losing 12-1 and 9-1? The south needs to become just a little more competive, because these type of blowouts do hurt class A. On the other hand, Alex's record was 1-7 down at the tournament, and now they're State Champs. Although, with that 1-7 record, I don't believe Alex ever got blown out of a game.

[GOCARDS1]

Agreed Sioux Rule, Austin also beat the 3A champion 5-0. I cannot imagine the situation had Breck played Marshall.

Three out of the five times Alex has been to state, there was a 4-team format in place. There was never an easy game. Although I like the 8-team format, some sections have some work to do to give Class A more respect and make the Class A tournament a better tournament.

[winnings not 4 everyone]

A good start would be to cross seed after section semi's. At least a good section could get two representatives. Weak sections from the south could then watch on TV like Crookston and Warroad did this year.

[GOCARDS1]

well put..
the top 6 out of 8 teams were found in three sections..

[DmanDad1980]

In early years, the boys tournament, there was 7 regions (now sections) w/ seven winners. The eighth tournament contestant was given to a "back door" third team from the North, decided by the two runner-ups playing another game.
In the early years (some may say even now ), the northern boys teams dominated over the more numerous metro teams, so to get a third northern team at the big dance to improve the field, they established the "back door" placement spot.
For the girls class A field, I offer this as an option, I am not advocating it, but it is merely an idea.

[SEhockeyDAD]

Although I like the 8-team format, some sections have some work to do to give Class A more respect and make the Class A tournament a better tournament.

Although I'm using this quote, I could have used one from winnings not 4 everyone or Sioux Rule also. I'm not trying to be a wise guy or be contentious, but a few of you went right by scarface's post without acknowledging it. He correctly stated that the current state tournament system ensures the top 8 teams won't be in it and its not going to change. The MSHSL makes sure each part of the state sends their best team. Like it or not, its about participation, not a dream tournament.

That aside, there's something else I'd point out. The statements that "blowouts hurt the single A tournament" and "some sections have work to do to give Class A more respect" are opinions you're entitled to have, but I'd disagree with them. Firstly, the HS girls hockey fans are a relatively small crowd. The worst thing you could do to single A girls hockey is to eliminate some parts of the state from reaching the state tournament. Without a regional team there, the tournament becomes irrelavent, especially in local papers, radio and TV. Losing the interest of entire regions of the state would "hurt" the tourney much more an excited section champion getting blown out by a bigtime program at state.

As for "some sections have work to do to give Class A more respect", if you think about it, thats impossible. Class A already has teams that garner huge respect. Alexandria beat Bemidji and only lost by 1 goal to GRG. Warroad beat Hopkins and tied Eden Prairie, and Roseau beat Warroad. Blake beat Eagan and Edina, and Breck beat Blake and Alex beat Roseau and Breck. What I'm getting at is that the top single A teams are able to contend with the best AA teams. If you say that other sections need to step up to that level, then what you're asking for is an Austin team that could contend with Stillwater or a Marshall to be able to beat Holy Angels. Thats just not going to happen.

I hope you can appreciate how fortunate your small school is if they're able to beat the big AA programs, because it doesn't happen that often, (outside of privates like Blake and Breck.) If your girls' team was that good, but didn't make it to state, thats unfortunate but it happens to quite a few teams. Eventually, there's only one team that wins the championship and the best team will win regardless of what other teams were there losing two games at state. The respect will always be there for single A because regardless of which other teams were at state, there will always be a great team winning it all.

[Bensonmum]

SEHockeyDad wrote:

The worst thing you could do to single A girls hockey is to eliminate some parts of the state from reaching the state tournament. Without a regional team there, the tournament becomes irrelavent, especially in local papers, radio and TV. Losing the interest of entire regions of the state would "hurt" the tourney much more an excited section champion getting blown out by a bigtime program at state.

Agreed 100%.
The real 'growth' in girls hockey might very well come in the south and western parts of the state. We're seeing it begin to level off in the TC area (not including Lakeville and some other 'exurbs') and I assume it already has up north.

[hocktang]

SEHockeyDad wrote:

The worst thing you could do to single A girls hockey is to eliminate some parts of the state from reaching the state tournament. Without a regional team there, the tournament becomes irrelavent, especially in local papers, radio and TV. Losing the interest of entire regions of the state would "hurt" the tourney much more an excited section champion getting blown out by a bigtime program at state.

Agreed 100%.
The real 'growth' in girls hockey might very well come in the south and western parts of the state. We're seeing it begin to level off in the TC area (not including Lakeville and some other 'exurbs') and I assume it already has up north.

If you think the TC is leveling off, look again. Have you ever seen the youth levels? They're getting better every year. Some teams at the youth are better than high school teams.

[Bensonmum]

I'm thinking numbers, quantity not quality. Associations are beginning to co-op where they didn't before. NSP/Tartan, SLP/Cooper/Armstrong, North Metro, IGH-SSP, Eagan-Sibley. These used to be girls' hockey strongholds. Roseville (Roseville!!) had to co-op their U14 team this year with NSP/Tartan. The growth is occurring in places farther and farther out now (Shakopee, Buffalo, STMA, Western Wisconsin) and hopefully continues in southern and western Minnesota.

[taking names]

Just to point out to all of you. Austin was never supposed to make it to state not even past semi-finals in sections. I have to give my props to the austin team for working so hard and making it to state.
They may not have won against breck but breck was the better team. Austin was a young team and they hung in there and played the best that they counld. COngrats on having a good season Austin

[DmanDad1980]

I'm thinking numbers, quantity not quality. Associations are beginning to co-op where they didn't before. NSP/Tartan, SLP/Cooper/Armstrong, North Metro, IGH-SSP, Eagan-Sibley. These used to be girls' hockey strongholds. Roseville (Roseville!!) had to co-op their U14 team this year with NSP/Tartan. The growth is occurring in places farther and farther out now (Shakopee, Buffalo, STMA, Western Wisconsin) and hopefully continues in southern and western Minnesota.

Good points Bensonmum!
Hockey strongholds like SSP, Eagan & Roseville are cooping at the youth level.

I think your vision for growth is meant at the High School level... I think the High School growth, if it will come, will come south and west of the Metro. The north has reached its maximum number of teams, because boys hockey has always been a part of the culture there and translated to the girls easily. The same goes for the metro where HS team numbers have reached its zenith, but a troubling sign are that Metro girls teams are cooping at the youth and the HS level. Girls High School Hockey is still relatively young in its existance, time will only make things stronger in the youth and high school levels.

Lets give this sport some time, I am sure thankful that my two girls have the opportunity to play a sport that I love and grew up playing & cherishing for a lifetime!

[RockHard]

A good start would be to cross seed after section semi's. At least a good section could get two representatives. Weak sections from the south could then watch on TV like Crookston and Warroad did this year.

Were you around for 2007? The weak team "Austin" (24-3) lost to Farmington (21-5-1) 5-2, and then went to the consolation bracket where they beat Marshall 7-0, and then lost in overtime to Breck (23-4) 5-4. They could just as easily have beaten Breck. Watch a replay if you can find one.

Alexandria (25-2) was eliminated after losing to Hibbing/Chisholm (14-11-2) 1-0 O.T.and then Breck 1-0 O.T. Farmington eventualy lost to Blake (23-4) 2-1 in the Championship.

Austin lost 8 seniors from that team and only had 3 this year. They are rebuilding and will be back. Your "weak sections from the south" is not only insulting, but smacks of ignorance. See you next year.

[hockeytribe]

I can hardly remember what I did two days ago, let alone what happened last year at the show! They play hockey south of the metro?

[RockHard]

It's semi-final games like this that hurt the legitamacy of the girls state (particularly 1a) tournament. These are NOT the best 8 teams in the state. Each team in this tournament took, essentially, a different route to get to the X. Take a look a the scores in 2A. Pretty evenly matched. Take a look at 1A, there were certainly lopsided games. Sections will not be realligned, a third class will not be added, and TV will not cover opening round games as long as this continues. Good luck Alex!

We should realign the NFL too! The best 8 never make it there either. Oh yeah and let's do major league baseball and the NHL too! Austin used it's third line for most of the 3rd period in both games. Of course the Breck game wasn't close after the first period. What bothers me about all this talk is that finding girl's to play is hard enough for us poor old southern Minnesota towns. The constant put downs by the "elite" of the hockey world really don't help. If this continues, pretty soon there will only be "Up North" girls's teams left. The you can have your tournament on a frozen pond "Up North" because you won't be able to pay for Excel or any other venue. "Unless you have an anonymous donor!" Last year the Austin games were anything but "lopsided". You still don't have the complete Austin story, do you? Yet you judge them repeatedly. Don't you wonder why a 7th grader was skating with the first line? Didn't that seem unusual to you? Save your smart ass remarks until you have the facts.

[Mac15]

I'm thinking numbers, quantity not quality. Associations are beginning to co-op where they didn't before. NSP/Tartan, SLP/Cooper/Armstrong, North Metro, IGH-SSP, Eagan-Sibley. These used to be girls' hockey strongholds. Roseville (Roseville!!) had to co-op their U14 team this year with NSP/Tartan. The growth is occurring in places farther and farther out now (Shakopee, Buffalo, STMA, Western Wisconsin) and hopefully continues in southern and western Minnesota.

Good points Bensonmum!
Hockey strongholds like SSP, Eagan & Roseville are cooping at the youth level.

I think your vision for growth is meant at the High School level... I think the High School growth, if it will come, will come south and west of the Metro. The north has reached its maximum number of teams, because boys hockey has always been a part of the culture there and translated to the girls easily. The same goes for the metro where HS team numbers have reached its zenith, but a troubling sign are that Metro girls teams are cooping at the youth and the HS level. Girls High School Hockey is still relatively young in its existance, time will only make things stronger in the youth and high school levels.

Lets give this sport some time, I am sure thankful that my two girls have the opportunity to play a sport that I love and grew up playing & cherishing for a lifetime!

I was going to agree with Bensonmum but DD1980 beat me to it. It has really surprised me to look at the co-ops in 14UA hockey this year. When I coached 12UA teams there were associations that were just dominating teams including Edina, NSP, Stillwater etc. In 14UA some are still strong, like Edina, but others had to co-op. I know that some of this was to just put a team on the ice but in other cases it was to build a strong A team and leave the other girls on a B team. In Rochester's case were are feeding three high school teams so we had a 14UA team composed of 13 first year girls and 1 second yearplayer. Only 7 of our players had played on two or more A teams, three started hockey last season and one didn't even play last year. I'm not going to bash anyone's program because I like to think that everyone is doing what they think is best for their kids. I would like to point out the strength of some of the girls programs that are outside the traditional hockey hotbeds. In the past 2 seasons Shakopee, Buffalo and Farmington have put some really good teams on the ice. District 4 only has B hockey for girls but Owatonna and Faribault have brought teams over to District 8 and competed at the A level. These programs will start showing up in the HS State Tourney in the upcoming years.

[winnings not 4 everyone]

Are these the facts you were looking for Rockhead:

In the final two games for Austin

Outshot 84-26
Outscored 21-2

If Breck hadn't been classy and taken the third period "off" the numbers would have been even more lopsided. Not a good showing for Austin or their section. We will never know whether this was just an off weekend for the girls or if they may have been in a little over their heads. Let's see what SOS brings for next year.

[what'smyname]

It truly amazes me that as adults you can sit here and cut down on young skaters and young teams like you do. Do any of you realize that the girls on Breck, Roseau and Alexadria were once young? Do you realize that Breck had the opportunity to pick their roster from approximately 40 skaters. Of course they are going to bring their best. I would imagine that the Austin coach puts his best skaters in and plays the girls where they should be playing. To sit and say that they had a poor showing for their section is unfair. They came in as an underdog and yet they managed to beat Marshal in their first game. They may have a 7th grader on their 1st line, and they may have a young goalie, a young team but they seem to have more team spirit and more values than several of you on this forum. I give it to the Austin team for standing true to each other and holding their heads high. Maybe some of you here should take a lesson from them. Bad days or good days for the weekend does not matter all that I know is that all of us up here may someday skate against these girls again and be in the same situation that they were in their last two games. My hats off to the Austin Team for all that they have done and all that is to come!

[OntheEdge]

If you think the TC is leveling off, look again. Have you ever seen the youth levels? They're getting better every year. Some teams at the youth are better than high school teams.

Sorry but I have to disagree about the quality at the youth level. I think its a down year this year. Last year the quality was much better and I doubt that any U14A team could compete with any HS team other than the bottom few. Last year the U12 and U14 teams were much stronger. WBL, Stillwater, Edina, EP, Minnetonka etc all were very strong programs in 2006-07. This year the overall quality of the U14 teams is low but there are a number of U12A teams that are pretty good with an exceptional Minnetonka team. Quality-wise I think its a down year but I'm not sure where it stands numbers wise.

[Silent But Deadly]

If you think the TC is leveling off, look again. Have you ever seen the youth levels? They're getting better every year. Some teams at the youth are better than high school teams.

there are a number of U12A teams that are pretty good with an exceptional Minnetonka team

And Buffalo! District 10 Champs! (mid season tied Minnetonka 3-3)

Let me have my moment!

[hockeyheaven]

Instead of insulting the Class A teams and their inability to be competitive at the State Tournament level maybe you should direct your anger at those A teams that should have the courage to opt up and play Class AA. There is no reason for teams like Blake, Alex, Roseau, Warroad and Breck to be playing A. These five teams were clearly heads and tails better then any other Class A team (and have been for years and for years to come), and would have been more then competitive against AA teams. All year long we had to hear the Cardinal faithful whine about the lack of respect that was given to their squad. Well move up to the big girl league and maybe you would get the respect you feel you so richly deserve. How many times have you been to the Class A tourney? Couple I guess huh…I don’t really know for sure because the reality of it is no one really cares about Class A, not really, not when looking back, not when you are referencing the best teams. Who (other then Packer backers) would look back at those great SSP teams in awe if they simply won the Class A tournament, say 5 years in a row or so. You would think neat… nice accomplishment… but no one would have view them as the greatest girls hockey dynasty of all time as they do now. That I know. That’s what I like about the Roseau boys team. Could play A but choose to match talent with the best teams win or lose. Have to respect that.
.

[RockHard]

Are these the facts you were looking for Rockhead:

In the final two games for Austin

Outshot 84-26
Outscored 21-2

If Breck hadn't been classy and taken the third period "off" the numbers would have been even more lopsided. Not a good showing for Austin or their section. We will never know whether this was just an off weekend for the girls or if they may have been in a little over their heads. Let's see what SOS brings for next year.

You will never know why they had these problems either unless you do your homework. Maybe not even then. Some problems should not be addressed on this forum. These girl's are students first and hockey players second.

Please don't insult me with name changing. It belittle's you and this forum.