Lakeville South a joke, but Cloquet is legit?

[grindiangrad-80]

These two teams got to state the same way as everyone else.
They won their section.
According to many posters here sections 1, 7, and 8 are a joke.
I guess the state tournament isn't as tough as everyone thinks.

[keepyourheadup]

You can make a strong arguement that neither of these teams belong in the state tournament but that doesn't change the fact that they are. Since we've all been busy moaning about who did and didn't make it, lets hear some of your thoughts on a better selection process. If the tourney remains an 8 team tournament what would be a good formula to select the teams? Do we change the process each year based on which teams are believed to be superior? Its not as easy as it seems.

[hockeylover]

Cloquet at least was tested with tough games in sections and had to earn their way. People have a problem with Lakeville mainly because they weren't even tested in sections. What did they out score their opponents by something like 20-0. That's why people are upset.

[HockeyHotHead]

In any game, the biggest deciding factor of who wins or loses comes down to heart and hustle. The battles we witnessed in many of the Section finals are proof of that. We in Minnesota should be proud of this amazing tournament, its teams, and the high caliber of hockey that our high schools produce -- no matter what section it comes from. This is the biggest high school tournament in the nation because of its quality, excitement, and best of all -- upsets. It's about our entire state being represented on a playing field that's as level as the MSHSL can practically get it. Speculate all you want about the winners and losers. Every one of these teams wants to win, and I guarantee every one of these teams will play their heart out.

[Hockeyguy_27]

If they stuck Burnsville, Rosemount, Apple Valley and Eastview in Section 1, I don't think people would be complaining. Any team that makes it to state tournament with slightly over a .500 record--particularly when coming from a weak section is going to be subject to criticism.

[Prodigy]

Besides getting blown out by minnetonka really early this season, South has been playing right with some of the top teams in the state but just couldn't pull out a win against any of them until late in the year against Rosemount. Do I like their chances at winning at state? no, who really does? but should they be given respect? yes, with the physical brand of hockey they play and one of the best goalies in the state I could see them winning a 2-1 game if hill doesn't give them respect. Think about this, they started 4-9-2 and ended the year 10-2-1 so they are obviously playing better than their overall record indicates.

[WayOutWest]

Think about this, they started 4-9-2 and ended the year 10-2-1 so they are obviously playing better than their overall record indicates.

The opponent list must always be considered. Going 10-2-1 is good, but that stretch of the schedule was mostly foam, and very little beer.

Still, you cannot fault LS. They won their section and made it to state. If there is any fault to be had, it should be assigned to those that design the section boundaries. (But even that is difficult, since the success of many teams and/or sections is cyclical.)

This year, Lakeville's section was weak, and so is the section champ. They'll get run over in the quarterfinals. No big deal.

[eagle4life9]

[quote]The opponent list must always be considered. Going 10-2-1 is good, but that stretch of the schedule was mostly foam, and very little beer. [/quote]

Sine after Christmas they are 11-4-2 including sections and they have played games like Jefferson, @EP, @Eastview, Burnsville, Rosemount, EP. That is six games right there that I wouldnt say are "foam" games.

[pondyplayer93]

Lakeville South came out of a section that had NO TOP 20 TEAMS. It is a joke! I hope that LS does well but expect that they will lose big time as would any team from Section 1 which is the ONLY section without a top 20 representative.

At least Cloquet had a couple of top 20 teams that they had to get past to EARN their way by to get to the State tourney.

You are completely missing the point. South has no control over who they put in front of them. They destroyed their section opponents...the question is..why is cloquet not bashed like LS. Even thoguh LS has the better resume

how do they have a better resume?
cloquet beat two top 12 teams in a row to get to state when they were an underdog

[Bash Brother]

The fact that both of these teams are playing in the state tournament is a joke. It's just that Lakeville South is even more of a joke and has zero chance of actually doing well in the tournament.

Actually, South's goalie gives them much better than a zero chance to do well.

[WayOutWest]

The opponent list must always be considered. Going 10-2-1 is good, but that stretch of the schedule was mostly foam, and very little beer.

Sine after Christmas they are 11-4-2 including sections and they have played games like Jefferson, @EP, @Eastview, Burnsville, Rosemount, EP. That is six games right there that I wouldnt say are "foam" games.

According to the most recent MinnHock ratings:

Jefferson (22) - TIE
@EP (17) - LOSS
@Eastview (11) - LOSS
Burnsville (9) - LOSS
Rosemount (15) - WIN
EP (17) - LOSS

Okay, that's vs. a best ranking team of 9......and four of those games vs. 15's or below.......

AND.........a 1-4-1 record in those games.
There is VERY little "beer" here.

[hockeydude42]

The fact that both of these teams are playing in the state tournament is a joke. It's just that Lakeville South is even more of a joke and has zero chance of actually doing well in the tournament.

Both teams won there section and deserve to be at the tourney.

I don't see how beating Dodge County, Rochester Mayo, and Lakeville North makes you deserving of going to state. If you honestly think they would have made it out of any other section in the state then your crazy. If they were in a section like 6AA they would not have even made it out of the first round. Lakeville South is a terrible team.

[mainefan]

The fact that both of these teams are playing in the state tournament is a joke. It's just that Lakeville South is even more of a joke and has zero chance of actually doing well in the tournament.

Both teams won there section and deserve to be at the tourney.

I don't see how beating Dodge County, Rochester Mayo, and Lakeville North makes you deserving of going to state. If you honestly think they would have made it out of any other section in the state then your crazy. If they were in a section like 6AA they would not have even made it out of the first round. Lakeville South is a terrible team.

It is virtually impossible to have equal sections due to the obvious. It will be fun or painful but at the least different to watch LS-mistakes, goals against and all. They won their section-leave them alone and let them enjoy the moment. Anything can happen.

[BIAFP]

The fact that both of these teams are playing in the state tournament is a joke. It's just that Lakeville South is even more of a joke and has zero chance of actually doing well in the tournament.

Both teams won there section and deserve to be at the tourney.

I don't see how beating Dodge County, Rochester Mayo, and Lakeville North makes you deserving of going to state. If you honestly think they would have made it out of any other section in the state then your crazy. If they were in a section like 6AA they would not have even made it out of the first round. Lakeville South is a terrible team.

Move on, Life is too short to be happy being miserable

[cjp8816]

David vs Goliath? This is kinda funny to me. Even if Esse said it himself it was clearly used as motivation and in noway did Esse believe he was walking into the 1980 Russians. {lolAnoka}= Goliath?
7AA was weak this year. Cloquet play poorly all season long, they are clearly not playing poorly anymore. So to say Cloquet shouldn't make the trip to the X is ridiculous.

Chances are Cloquet will be beat Thursday, and whoever plays Edina on friday will feel the same shame. Put Cloquet in with anyone other then Roseau or Edina and its even money at this point. I can't say the same thing about LS. 1AA's record speaks for its self.

[wbmd]

I like Govs93 response from another thread.


mnhighschoolhockeyfan92 wrote:
please just answer this one question: why is lakeville south such a joke?


Not too many people around here know the honest truth because they haven't seen them... Me being one.

The assumption is that because they finished the regular season at .500 and that they're the best that Section 1 had to offer, they're not going to be taken as seriously.

Having said that though, mnhighschoolhockeyfan92, you need to look no further than last year to know that you can have all the opinions you want... none if it matters until Thursday night. No need to get all upset. Ask Rochester Century... they're still being talked about a year later.

[puckman22]

Someone want to explain this one to me. Everyone on the board ragging on how bad LS is and that HM has a "bye" but no harsh words for Cloquet who faces Edina?...lets compare the two.

Lakeville South 14-11-3
Cloquet 15-11-2

Cloquet better by half a game.


South carries a win over a top 10 team in Rosemount
Cloquet does not.

South is 10-2-1 in their last 13 with only 2 losses to two top 20 teams.
Cloquet is 6-7 in their last 13 with losses to unranked teams.

South has the tools to pull an upset...they work hard have the top goaltender around and proved they can play with the top teams around. They destroyed their section, outscoring their opponents 20-0 in section play. Yeah the section is weak, but no one in the state besides maybe Roseau dominated their section like South did

Cloquet played well and had nice wins against DE, and ANoka in sections...granted they are hot right now and pulled off 2 upsets and made state as a #4 seeed

South carries the better stat sheet

Why is South trashed on here, while Cloquet is not? or do people just hate on 1AA for no reason?

Both teams are decent teams and both have chance to pull an upset...however, I think South has ALOT better chance vs Hill, than Cloquet does vs Edina..

Looks to me like Cloquet beat the #9 ranked team Duluth East. Rosemount isn't even in the top 10. (minnhock rankings)

[minnesotahockeyfan]

[quote="puckman22"][quote="Poor Imitation"]Someone want to explain this one to me. Everyone on the board ragging on how bad LS is and that HM has a "bye" but no harsh words for Cloquet who faces Edina?...lets compare the two.

Lakeville South 14-11-3
Cloquet 15-11-2

Cloquet better by half a game.


South carries a win over a top 10 team in Rosemount
Cloquet does not.

South is 10-2-1 in their last 13 with only 2 losses to two top 20 teams.
Cloquet is 6-7 in their last 13 with losses to unranked teams.

South has the tools to pull an upset...they work hard have the top goaltender around and proved they can play with the top teams around. They destroyed their section, outscoring their opponents 20-0 in section play. Yeah the section is weak, but no one in the state besides maybe Roseau dominated their section like South did

Cloquet played well and had nice wins against DE, and ANoka in sections...granted they are hot right now and pulled off 2 upsets and made state as a #4 seeed

South carries the better stat sheet

Why is South trashed on here, while Cloquet is not? or do people just hate on 1AA for no reason?

Both teams are decent teams and both have chance to pull an upset...however, I think South has ALOT better chance vs Hill, than Cloquet does vs Edina..[/quote]

Looks to me like Cloquet beat the #9 ranked team Duluth East. Rosemount isn't even in the top 10. (minnhock rankings)[/quote]


The minnhock "system" also has a team thats 28-0, defending champs as #3...while 2 teams with at least 2 losses in front of them..

at the time of the actual rankings.Rosemount was #6 at the time of the South loss.

[Kurdatz]

If the case of strength is the case, why not just eliminate the A/AA format and go back to the single class system...there would be no doubt in anyones mind as to who was the best team to get to the "great 8".

[keepyourheadup]

I think we can all agree that LS is fortunate to be where they are but is it really neccesary to call them terrible? I find it repugnant. There very well could be 20 or 30 teams not at the show who are likely better, but terrible? Everyone likes an underdog so lets just see what happens.

[WayOutWest]

South has the tools to pull an upset...they work hard have the top goaltender around and proved they can play with the top teams around. They destroyed their section, outscoring their opponents 20-0 in section play. Yeah the section is weak, but no one in the state besides maybe Roseau dominated their section like South did

Cloquet played well and had nice wins against DE, and ANoka in sections...granted they are hot right now and pulled off 2 upsets and made state as a #4 seeed

South carries the better stat sheet

Why is South trashed on here, while Cloquet is not? or do people just hate on 1AA for no reason?

Both teams are decent teams and both have chance to pull an upset...however, I think South has ALOT better chance vs Hill, than Cloquet does vs Edina..

Yawn!!!!

Every underdog team in the state tournament has a chance to pull an upset. In Cloquet's and South's situation, they are both doubtful, however.
Who really cares about the records, the stats, or the comparison?
The proof is in the pudding.
Lace 'em up and see what happens. I'm betting neither will be competitive.

[mainefan]

Here's a queation for all you Cloquet and Lakeville haters-

Why all the hoopala over these teams? Every year people say there are teams that don't deserve to be there, some years they do better than others- it happens. Did some other teams deserve to be there? Sure, but they're not. Every team that's there will be competitive to the best of their abilities and there may be an upset If the rest of the teams are sooooo much better than you all should have nothing to worry about right?

[goldy313]

1AA is weak, but not much more so than 7AA or 8AA. Cloquet gets all this credit for beating Duluth East, why? Duluth East beat the 4 and 5 seeds in 1AA 3-0 and 3-2 respectively. Those aren't overly impressive wins. Roseau came out of a weak section, their only competition was Moorhead, a quick look shows Moorhead and 1AA's #4 seed had 3 common opponents, WBL, East, and Roseville. Guess what? the difference in scores are so similar it's scary: WBL 6 Moorhead 5, WBL 3 Century 1; East 5 Moorhead 3, East 3 Century 0; Roseville 3 Moorhead 0, Roseville 3 Century 0. Century was a 4 seed Moorhead was 2 seed.

The outstate sections are made up of a large number of schools that are at the bottom of the top 64 in terms of enrollment, either opt up or are co-ops. They're not consistantly going to have the depth that the large metro schools are. It is what it is. People get upset when metro schools are added to an outstate section to make a section tougher, and even then it usually doesn't make it that much more difficult. In 1AA the teams closest geographically are Hastings, Park, Sibley, Rosemount, Apple Valley, and Eastview. Only 2 of those would have improved the section any and South would probably still be representing 1AA at state.

[packerboy]

1AA is weak, but not much more so than 7AA or 8AA.

goldy, many will support 1AA's right to exist in its current form but I don't think many will agree that 7 and 8 are the same as 1.

It doesnt mean much if a section is 'deep' if the representative gets beat up on every year like 1AA.

[Govs93]

I like Govs93 response from another thread.


mnhighschoolhockeyfan92 wrote:
please just answer this one question: why is lakeville south such a joke?


Not too many people around here know the honest truth because they haven't seen them... Me being one.

The assumption is that because they finished the regular season at .500 and that they're the best that Section 1 had to offer, they're not going to be taken as seriously.

Having said that though, mnhighschoolhockeyfan92, you need to look no further than last year to know that you can have all the opinions you want... none if it matters until Thursday night. No need to get all upset. Ask Rochester Century... they're still being talked about a year later.

Sounds like a smart (and ruggedly handsome) fella.