destiny of the Cadets

[hockeydad]

I don't believe you have to wait to opt up. Lakeville South opted up in its second year of existence (which is where they belonged). they could have stayed in Class A had they wanted to for their second year.

But yes, the teams go through realignment every two years. If a school's enrollment goes over for the second year of the process, they do not automatically get bumped up.

I believe what happened with Rogers is they added a small private school to their coop with Zimmerman and didn't realize until after the fact that the added enrollment bumped them up a class. (The AD should have know that when they applied for the coop.) The team didn't become aware of this until about a month into the season.

I have mixed feelings on this. I dont' think all privates should be forced to opt up like some believe (St. Paul Academy, Saints Coop have no business in AA). But if a school decides to make a big investment in hockey, such as bringing in high profile coaches with a good track record and build a hockey arena on their campus (yes, I know it was financed mostly by the college). Then I think there is a good case to be made that they should opt up. Holy Angels, Hill-Murray, Cretin and most recently Benilde have come to this realization. Perhaps St. Thomas will too. Remember, it took Benilde a few years to realize they had to do it.

[deacon]

I don't believe you have to wait to opt up. Lakeville South opted up in its second year of existence (which is where they belonged). they could have stayed in Class A had they wanted to for their second year.

But yes, the teams go through realignment every two years. If a school's enrollment goes over for the second year of the process, they do not automatically get bumped up.

I believe what happened with Rogers is they added a small private school to their coop with Zimmerman and didn't realize until after the fact that the added enrollment bumped them up a class. (The AD should have know that when they applied for the coop.) The team didn't become aware of this until about a month into the season.

I have mixed feelings on this. I dont' think all privates should be forced to opt up like some believe (St. Paul Academy, Saints Coop have no business in AA). But if a school decides to make a big investment in hockey, such as bringing in high profile coaches with a good track record and build a hockey arena on their campus (yes, I know it was financed mostly by the college). Then I think there is a good case to be made that they should opt up. Holy Angels, Hill-Murray, Cretin and most recently Benilde have come to this realization. Perhaps St. Thomas will too. Remember, it took Benilde a few years to realize they had to do it.

These are good points. I hope STA moves when they get the chance. I know UST put up some money, but I thought a lot of the money came from private donations, and I am thinking of one family in particular that is from Edina who had 2 sons go through STA.

[Can't Never Tried]

I don't believe you have to wait to opt up. Lakeville South opted up in its second year of existence (which is where they belonged). they could have stayed in Class A had they wanted to for their second year.

But yes, the teams go through realignment every two years. If a school's enrollment goes over for the second year of the process, they do not automatically get bumped up.

I believe what happened with Rogers is they added a small private school to their coop with Zimmerman and didn't realize until after the fact that the added enrollment bumped them up a class. (The AD should have know that when they applied for the coop.) The team didn't become aware of this until about a month into the season.
I have mixed feelings on this. I dont' think all privates should be forced to opt up like some believe (St. Paul Academy, Saints Coop have no business in AA). But if a school decides to make a big investment in hockey, such as bringing in high profile coaches with a good track record and build a hockey arena on their campus (yes, I know it was financed mostly by the college). Then I think there is a good case to be made that they should opt up. Holy Angels, Hill-Murray, Cretin and most recently Benilde have come to this realization. Perhaps St. Thomas will too. Remember, it took Benilde a few years to realize they had to do it.

Yes, and now Rogers stands alone, and they are at about 996 for enrollment, there are rumors that they could be back in single A next season.?? I'm trying to find out, but little has been said.

As far as STA goes AA is your place and you know it, the kids know it, and want it, it's the administration, they are content with winning against the small schools at sections and state. Maybe those AA teams like CDH, HM, Tonka, and BSM, etc. they play during the year should refuse the games on their schedule in the future.?? I mean what good does it do them to play a single A team

edit... scratch HM they're a Conf team

[hockeydad]

Does this mean Zimmerman will have its own hockey team next season???

[Can't Never Tried]

Does this mean Zimmerman will have its own hockey team next season???

No I think they will go with ER or Princeton... not sure as Princeton is a different school district, if that matters

[thestickler07]

I don't believe you have to wait to opt up. Lakeville South opted up in its second year of existence (which is where they belonged). they could have stayed in Class A had they wanted to for their second year.

But yes, the teams go through realignment every two years. If a school's enrollment goes over for the second year of the process, they do not automatically get bumped up.

I believe what happened with Rogers is they added a small private school to their coop with Zimmerman and didn't realize until after the fact that the added enrollment bumped them up a class. (The AD should have know that when they applied for the coop.) The team didn't become aware of this until about a month into the season.

I have mixed feelings on this. I dont' think all privates should be forced to opt up like some believe (St. Paul Academy, Saints Coop have no business in AA). But if a school decides to make a big investment in hockey, such as bringing in high profile coaches with a good track record and build a hockey arena on their campus (yes, I know it was financed mostly by the college). Then I think there is a good case to be made that they should opt up. Holy Angels, Hill-Murray, Cretin and most recently Benilde have come to this realization. Perhaps St. Thomas will too. Remember, it took Benilde a few years to realize they had to do it.

Lakeville South actually hard a special agreement with the MSHSL to play AAAA for football and such because they began school at the beginning of a cycle and had no seniors. They didn't "opt up" the year after, and they didn't have a choice. They were going to play AAAAA for football, AAAA for basketball etc, regardless the next year. It was a special exception.

I am a St. Thomas fan and alum. St. Thomas should opt up to AA. In my opinion, they should play top class in everything, but that's a completely different issue. So no, the whole STA community doesn't want to play A hockey. I would guess a lot don't want to stay in A forever, or even the next couple of years.

Moving up in the middle of cycles just doesn't happen. Hypothetically, it would mean moving someone down to A (because only 64 teams are in AA) and ensuring that the team moved down/up are in the same geographical region to ensure that sections would remain unchanged for the next season. I have never heard of it happening.

Let's hope St. Thomas opts up soon. They certainly can compete.

[Neutron 14]

Moving up in the middle of cycles just doesn't happen. Hypothetically, it would mean moving someone down to A (because only 64 teams are in AA) and ensuring that the team moved down/up are in the same geographical region to ensure that sections would remain unchanged for the next season. I have never heard of it happening.

Let's hope St. Thomas opts up soon. They certainly can compete.

AA is the top 64 enrollments PLUS opt ups. 4AA has 9 teams and 4A has ten, so no realignment would be needed.

[rex123]

I don't believe you have to wait to opt up. Lakeville South opted up in its second year of existence (which is where they belonged). they could have stayed in Class A had they wanted to for their second year.

But yes, the teams go through realignment every two years. If a school's enrollment goes over for the second year of the process, they do not automatically get bumped up.

I believe what happened with Rogers is they added a small private school to their coop with Zimmerman and didn't realize until after the fact that the added enrollment bumped them up a class. (The AD should have know that when they applied for the coop.) The team didn't become aware of this until about a month into the season.

I have mixed feelings on this. I dont' think all privates should be forced to opt up like some believe (St. Paul Academy, Saints Coop have no business in AA). But if a school decides to make a big investment in hockey, such as bringing in high profile coaches with a good track record and build a hockey arena on their campus (yes, I know it was financed mostly by the college). Then I think there is a good case to be made that they should opt up. Holy Angels, Hill-Murray, Cretin and most recently Benilde have come to this realization. Perhaps St. Thomas will too. Remember, it took Benilde a few years to realize they had to do it.

You make some good points and I do agree, that Lakeville has handle the transition well. It addition to opting up Lakeville has done a good job of seperating into North & South. Thye could have stay just one school and try to be a Powerhouse like EP.

[dherman8]

Moving up in the middle of cycles just doesn't happen. Hypothetically, it would mean moving someone down to A (because only 64 teams are in AA) and ensuring that the team moved down/up are in the same geographical region to ensure that sections would remain unchanged for the next season. I have never heard of it happening.

Let's hope St. Thomas opts up soon. They certainly can compete.

AA is the top 64 enrollments PLUS opt ups. 4AA has 9 teams and 4A has ten, so no realignment would be needed.

Ok, St. Thomas. Leave NOW

[hockeydad]

Lakeville South actually hard a special agreement with the MSHSL to play AAAA for football and such because they began school at the beginning of a cycle and had no seniors. They didn't "opt up" the year after, and they didn't have a choice. They were going to play AAAAA for football, AAAA for basketball etc, regardless the next year. It was a special exception.

Now that I think about it, you are partially right about the Lakeville change, but it was an agreement that came about after the first year. They could have stayed in A hockey, AAA basketball and AAAA football for that second year, but they went to the league toward the end of their first year of existence and asked to be moved up in all sports immediately instead of having to wait for realignment, saying it was (listen to this St Thomas)

"THE RIGHT THING TO DO"

[thestickler07]

I was mistaken that opt ups replaced AA teams. The only times prior to looking at the sections now, I saw City schools being the 9th team, which, along with the reduced lunch subtracter for enrollment, led me to believe that it was a special situation with the city schools that had them in a limbo of sorts with many sports. That is not the case.

My mistake.

St. Thomas, do the right thing and move up asap. You have no arguments from me. They can compete at the highest level, and can win at the highest level. They should do so as soon as possible.

[mainefan]

And maybe you can make a donation to the kids in Brainard while your at it.

[thestickler07]

Lakeville South actually hard a special agreement with the MSHSL to play AAAA for football and such because they began school at the beginning of a cycle and had no seniors. They didn't "opt up" the year after, and they didn't have a choice. They were going to play AAAAA for football, AAAA for basketball etc, regardless the next year. It was a special exception.

Now that I think about it, you are partially right about the Lakeville change, but it was an agreement that came about after the first year. They could have stayed in A hockey, AAA basketball and AAAA football for that second year, but they went to the league toward the end of their first year of existence and asked to be moved up in all sports immediately instead of having to wait for realignment, saying it was (listen to this St Thomas)

"THE RIGHT THING TO DO"

They had a special agreement before they opened their doors. Its gonna happen for East Ridge, and its gonna happen for the new high school in Chanhassen. I have never heard that they had a choice. And I heard about this before their first football season. We knew they would play AAAA for only 1 year.

But seriously, if you honestly have THAT much of a problem with them playing A. Bitching and moaning on a forum to FANS isn't gonna change anything. Please, I ask you, no, beg you, to write to Jack Zahr and tell him to opt St. Thomas up. I WANT them playing AA.

Rehashing this on the board is dumb. Instead of typing it out here, type it in an email to him. I'm sure he would love to hear from you, and make it quick. The sophomores are good enough that I would love to see them lead STA to a state championship their first year in AA.

In conclusion, STA should opt up. Direct your comments on STA opting up to Jack Zahr, the AD, so it is a constructive comment instead of beating the largest dead horse issue this forum has probably ever seen. But, be careful what you wish for, would you really want to see those navy blue uniforms in the stands on a Saturday night celebrating a victory in the Varsity title game? I know I would, and by the sounds of most of your comments about them moving up, you guys do to.

[Royaltreatment]

I say quit your P----n & M---n and let it go! If STA-Marshall-SCC etc. move up, the Class A tourney is junk. What's left? Caledonia and Moose Lake/Sandstone in your championship. The Class A tourney is here to stay why not leave it alone. Otherwise all the goods teams, with all this talent beat up on each other in AA sections and your left with the "grapplin" communities to via for the Championship. Leave it alone.. It's great the way it is.

[thestickler07]

I say quit your P----n & M---n and let it go! If STA-Marshall-SCC etc. move up, the Class A tourney is junk. What's left? Caledonia and Moose Lake/Sandstone in your championship. The Class A tourney is here to stay why not leave it alone. Otherwise all the goods teams, with all this talent beat up on each other in AA sections and your left with the "grapplin" communities to via for the Championship. Leave it alone.. It's great the way it is.

Woodbury fan? I would be scared about STA opting up too, they will probably be in your section with Cretin.

[Can't Never Tried]

I say quit your P----n & M---n and let it go! If STA-Marshall-SCC etc. move up, the Class A tourney is junk. What's left? Caledonia and Moose Lake/Sandstone in your championship. The Class A tourney is here to stay why not leave it alone. Otherwise all the goods teams, with all this talent beat up on each other in AA sections and your left with the "grapplin" communities to via for the Championship. Leave it alone.. It's great the way it is.

Class A was meant for the smaller schools around the state, it's already thought of as the B league ......so let it be that way and bring your teams to the big league.
Or don't expect a lot of respect from the hockey purist if and when you do win.

There's more pride to whipping up on the bully on the block, then picking the smaller kids.

[Royaltreatment]

Bring em, now!! With the loss of all the talented seniors- Walters and maybe Issacson. They will be just another team next year, in my opinion. But my point is, why wreck the A tourney? I saw a few of the A games at the X last week. There were alot of very good hockey players in the A bracket. It was very fun to watch. Granted STA-Marshall-and L.F had a majority of the talent all the teams were fun to watch. But I for one want to see the best kids in either bracket, Private or Public who cares. Leave it be..

[Royaltreatment]

C.N.T Guys like you are the reason everything gets watered down. You think your a hockey purist when in reality your just another guy who's jealous and envious of the Hill Murray's STA's D.Marshalls. Correct me if i'm wrong, but STA D.M S.C.C fall into that smaller school category that you refer to, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Right? The kids don't make the decisions why hold that against them? Do you think the kids on STA feel any less a champ than Hill does? Why don't we just have a Class C tourney instead, so you can watch Wabasha and Hinkley fight it out. Just because you don't think it's fair . A TRUE hockey purist cares about the game. I saw in the paper yesterday the 08 State Tourney broke all attendence records by 4,000 people. I would say a lot of people are enjoying things just the way they are..

[Can't Never Tried]

C.N.T Guys like you are the reason everything gets watered down. You think your a hockey purist when in reality your just another guy who's jealous and envious of the Hill Murray's STA's D.Marshalls. Correct me if i'm wrong, but STA D.M S.C.C fall into that smaller school category that you refer to, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Right? The kids don't make the decisions why hold that against them? Do you think the kids on STA feel any less a champ than Hill does? Why don't we just have a Class C tourney instead, so you can watch Wabasha and Hinkley fight it out. Just because you don't think it's fair . A TRUE hockey purist cares about the game. I saw in the paper yesterday the 08 State Tourney broke all attendence records by 4,000 people. I would say a lot of people are enjoying things just the way they are..

Take a few steps back and read the 4th post on page 2 I said the kids want it...they've said as much..it's the admin...

[droppin'gloves]

Couldn't agree more RoyalTreatment. It is posters like CNT who detract from the accomplishments of these kids. The players have nothing to say about which class they play in, but 40 year olds with a lifetime of regrets sit on their computer and knock the state champions. These kids work every bit as hard as all the rest of the teams in the state. If you have a problem with what class they play in, then send a letter to STA's administration. You aren't getting many arguements that they shouldn't move up. They should and do it soon. You are just spouting off and trying trivialize one of the biggest accomplishments these kids will ever have athletically. remember, it is about the kids. Not the grown men with a DSL connection.

[Can't Never Tried]

Couldn't agree more RoyalTreatment. It is posters like CNT who detract from the accomplishments of these kids. The players have nothing to say about which class they play in, but 40 year olds with a lifetime of regrets sit on their computer and knock the state champions. These kids work every bit as hard as all the rest of the teams in the state. If you have a problem with what class they play in, then send a letter to STA's administration. You aren't getting many arguements that they shouldn't move up. They should and do it soon. You are just spouting off and trying trivialize one of the biggest accomplishments these kids will ever have athletically. remember, it is about the kids. Not the grown men with a DSL connection.

WTH are you talking about! go read from the beginning and think it over again!

[relax please]

Why not gripe about why the other A schools can't seem to field quality hockey. STA has.

[Slapper Al]

I say don't let anybody opt up and have one great tournament Why is this only a hockey issue? You have teams that dominate in every level or you have good runs. To say that STA should have anticipated that these kids come in is asinine. Now that they have had a run I think it is time to reassess, but how great would the tournaments be if they forced all the schools to stay where assigned? You could then go to a 16 team tournament and start on Wednesday. Play the AA games at the X and the A games at Mariucci. Then move the l8 winners to the X for the rest of the weekend and leave the others at Marriucci. It would solve all of this bitching and moaning except for section alignment which is another deal all together. The last time the Cadets opted up they were put in a section with all the Lake conference schools.

[dangles07]

CNT
Do not act like you not what the kids want. Unless you are very friendly with the players, which i am assuming you're not, do not tell us what the kids want. I, on the other hand, know many players on the team, and i can assure you it is not what all of them want. There may be a few of them who are curious about how they would compete, but overall the consensus of the team does not lean towards opting up. I know there is a quote from Walters in a Millea article last week concerning this, and I can tell you Millea took it out of context.

[Hillhockey000]

I am good friends with five or six players on STA, and I can assure you that everyone of them wants to play AA but they all say that their administration doesn't want hockey to move up while no other sports move up.