hockeyguy2328 wrote:Why don't these "select" tournaments truly be selective and have a tryout like the Advanced 15,16, etc.? Reputation does bring in some of the best but clearly there's plenty of "who you know stuff" going on.
I know there's players in both selects and super series that would NOT make it through a tryout.
The Elite Classic next weekend is the same thing. Also $200 for 4 games and 2 practices? Wow.
They don't have tryouts cause in the end the people running it don't care who is playing as long as the checks clear the bank. Start doing the math:
15 Player per team
4 teams per level
11 levels
Costs:
Officials $6500
Ice: $150 and hour or about $36,000
So if my math is right:
15x200=3,000
3000x4=12,000
12000x11=132,000
132,000-42,500=
$89,500
Plus they charge at the door. There are some other costs for score keepers. But it seems like a good way to make a living.
Also the refs at the Super Series all worked for free this weekend. Most of the refs there work juniors and college hockey as well as youth. The money that the refs would be payed is used to fund the Minn Hockey Officials Association camp that is run durning the same time as the Advanced 15s at St. Cloud.
love2skate wrote:morecowbells
I love how people assume without the facts. The major peewee level Fire kids are not allowed to be in this tournament by their coach. They leave early next week for nationals. I know 5 or 6 who were going to play but had to bow out when the team won a regionals last weekend. The amount of misinformation on this forum is plentiful. Woods is not playing, he just happens to be on the roster, which they prob submitted before the Fire won in regions to go to national.
More Cowbell is right Woods was going to play but thee Fire is still winning....Same with Horton.
UM HELLO rocket scientists...aren't ALL FLIPPING tournaments all year long fund raisers for someone????
Pay an entry fee for the team...
Pay an entry fee to get in the games...
Pay this..
Pay that..
It's the NORM...why complain on here because a few spring tournaments pop up. Geez, sometimes I think some of you are just completely blind to the truth that everybody is doing it, not just whatever tournament or AAA team that YOU don't like. Wake up blind mice and see the cheese.
Finally talked with someone who was present at the tourney said the comp. was great very well run tournament, He also made a comment about refereeing was a little shakey exp. at bantam level said his boy had a blast.Good job minn. blades
hockeyguy2328 wrote:Why don't these "select" tournaments truly be selective and have a tryout like the Advanced 15,16, etc.? Reputation does bring in some of the best but clearly there's plenty of "who you know stuff" going on.
I know there's players in both selects and super series that would NOT make it through a tryout.
The Elite Classic next weekend is the same thing. Also $200 for 4 games and 2 practices? Wow.
They don't have tryouts cause in the end the people running it don't care who is playing as long as the checks clear the bank. Start doing the math:
15 Player per team
4 teams per level
11 levels
Costs:
Officials $6500
Ice: $150 and hour or about $36,000
So if my math is right:
15x200=3,000
3000x4=12,000
12000x11=132,000
132,000-42,500=
$89,500
Plus they charge at the door. There are some other costs for score keepers. But it seems like a good way to make a living.
Also the refs at the Super Series all worked for free this weekend. Most of the refs there work juniors and college hockey as well as youth. The money that the refs would be payed is used to fund the Minn Hockey Officials Association camp that is run durning the same time as the Advanced 15s at St. Cloud.
Hey Quacker, don't mean to change your numbers, but their is 17 players on each team. So add that into the mix. They pay the coach a small stipulate of maybe couple hundred. And if you go to the web site, one of their mission statements say they are a NON-PROFIT organization. The numbers still mean that they make a lot of money. Oh!! let's don't forget to add in the sale of the hoodies that they sell. WOW!!! that's a lot of money.
I don't really see what the point is to doing more than one of these.
Given you pay 1000-1500 a year for your association, and you get 90+ hours of practice and 35 games (at the U10 level), I don't see how these are really a value of any sort. I can see plugging your kid in, seeing where they are against some other good players, but on the girls side, they didn't have all the good players and many were just OK. Eden Prairie by themselves was probably better than a couple of these teams. Its all nice and good to say "My kid was a Select" or "My kid played in the Super Series", but it's not like they got amazing coaching or even developed at all, really.
Try it once, let the kid have fun, then go play AAA or Mash.
Gopher1, your math is way off. I think you will find the following is more accurate. My comments are underlined below.
4 teams per level * 11 levels * 4 games per team = 176 games/2 teams each = 88 total games
Costs:
Officials $6500 : Way too low. They use three at some levels, so $150/game is a good average This is $13,200 for 88 games
ice $150 and hour or about $36,000. Should be 175/hr Each of 44 teams gets 4 hours of ice for practice: 175 *4* 44=$30,800
Out of town coaches get their hotels paid for: 11 * 3 nights =33 nights, about $4000
Coaches jackets = 44 * ($50?) which is $2200
Player gifts at $30 each = $19,800 Jersey/socks at $40 each =$26,400 Medics @ 60/game =$5280
All these estimates add up to about $135,000
Income
"So if my math is right:
15x200=3,000
3000x4=12,000
12000x11=132,000" They only charge $175 and have 17 players per team, so this number is $130,900 These are rough and do not include minor cost items like pucks, medals, advertising, mail and such. It does not include income from the box office or programs. They make some money, but it does not seem excessive for the effort.
hockeyparent11 wrote:Gopher1, your math is way off. I think you will find the following is more accurate. My comments are underlined below.
4 teams per level * 11 levels * 4 games per team = 176 games/2 teams each = 88 total games
Costs:
Officials $6500 : Way too low. They use three at some levels, so $150/game is a good average This is $13,200 for 88 games
ice $150 and hour or about $36,000. Should be 175/hr Each of 44 teams gets 4 hours of ice for practice: 175 *4* 44=$30,800
Out of town coaches get their hotels paid for: 11 * 3 nights =33 nights, about $4000
Coaches jackets = 44 * ($50?) which is $2200
Player gifts at $30 each = $19,800 Jersey/socks at $40 each =$26,400 Medics @ 60/game =$5280
All these estimates add up to about $135,000
Income
"So if my math is right:
15x200=3,000
3000x4=12,000
12000x11=132,000" They only charge $175 and have 17 players per team, so this number is $130,900 These are rough and do not include minor cost items like pucks, medals, advertising, mail and such. It does not include income from the box office or programs. They make some money, but it does not seem excessive for the effort.
Hockey parent, If you read the beginning of the post. My comment was how much money that they make. I believe that your numbers are off. Plus you really did your homework. Good job. Also you must know someone who is involved in the putting the tournament together. If you really think they don't make much money, your kidding yourself.
Hey hockeyparent: one more thing, check the post of Quacker and your post of paying the refs, they volunteered. So where is that money? Still making alot of money no matter how you put it.
Is it possible that I have a soft spot for Brny McBn in a few weeks his Preview Cup trny will be all on its own... this group will have all their energy focused on his trny... Or is that what Mr Hockey wants?
EP and other top teams would absolutely beat all teams based on what I saw.
If it is truly going to be a "select" tournament, charge for a regional tryout with North being in G.Rapids or somewhere north of Brainerd, have the West in Buffalo or somewhere at least a bit west of Wayzata, south in at least Hastings and East in St. Paul or Stillwater, etc.
I don't have a problem with an organization or individual making a reasonable amount of money. People can choose not to participate.
I just find the selection process to be highly flawed. But obviously the goal is money not a true select tournament.
mclovinu wrote:Finally talked with someone who was present at the tourney said the comp. was great very well run tournament, He also made a comment about refereeing was a little shakey exp. at bantam level said his boy had a blast.Good job minn. blades
For anyone that did not like the officiating I ask you to contact the MN ref-in-chief next year about 2 weeks before the event and join us working for free. He scheduled the refs and all that was paid was the hotel for the guys from the North.
"The money that the refs would be payed is used to fund the Minn Hockey Officials Association camp that is run durning the same time as the Advanced 15s at St. Cloud."
I don't know, but it looks like money that would have been paid to the refs was paid by the tourney to this camp.
G1-I should have said Quacker's math was way off, not yours. Sorry.
first of all to clear this up from my perspective. i had one boy in superseries peewee minor and one in the 94's of selects. The kids had a blast!!! thats all its about. The field of players are ok you have about 50% of the players at a high level and 50% that are not. this weekend is not about improving its all and i mean all about fun. some of the choices we make as parents when it comes to any sport has to be about the fun for the kids. its expensive but if your like me memories are worth more than money. my kids are growing up fast and will soon befor you know it be out of the house off to start their own life. the memories we create together are what we have left. my 94 is done with this type of tourney already! the next thing i would like to add is i think the selects tourney is the better of the two. if you have the choice i would pick that one. both tourneys have the same level of play but the select tourney has 25 minute periods vs 23. they have a skills compatition,door prizes,raffel and they flood the ice between periods. one other thing i really like about selects is thier program it has each player listed thats ever played in the tourney and which years. its very intresting to look to see all the great players that have been through that tourney over the years. so after being a part of both tourneys for a number of years thats my take. selects give alot more effort for the kids than super series.
watchdog wrote:first of all to clear this up from my perspective. i had one boy in superseries peewee minor and one in the 94's of selects. The kids had a blast!!! thats all its about. The field of players are ok you have about 50% of the players at a high level and 50% that are not. this weekend is not about improving its all and i mean all about fun. some of the choices we make as parents when it comes to any sport has to be about the fun for the kids. its expensive but if your like me memories are worth more than money. my kids are growing up fast and will soon befor you know it be out of the house off to start their own life. the memories we create together are what we have left. my 94 is done with this type of tourney already! the next thing i would like to add is i think the selects tourney is the better of the two. if you have the choice i would pick that one. both tourneys have the same level of play but the select tourney has 25 minute periods vs 23. they have a skills compatition,door prizes,raffel and they flood the ice between periods. one other thing i really like about selects is thier program it has each player listed thats ever played in the tourney and which years. its very intresting to look to see all the great players that have been through that tourney over the years. so after being a part of both tourneys for a number of years thats my take. selects give alot more effort for the kids than super series.
Well said. I also had a player participate in both and though he had fun doing both, he felt the Selects was better. He thought both the competition and the atmosphere was better.
Can anyone explain exactly how these teams were selected? Seems that most of the teams are made up of kids from just a few associations. Is there an open process for selecting or is it an old boys deal?
conditioningsucks wrote:Can anyone explain exactly how these teams were selected? Seems that most of the teams are made up of kids from just a few associations. Is there an open process for selecting or is it an old boys deal?
Players are nominated by there coaches. I think once they have played for one of the tournaments they are welcome back every year. It seems like there are a lot of kids that play year after year. Most everyone has fun and that is what youth hockey is about.
actually Fire kids did play in the super series....Andrew Zurban on the minor peewee west team was listed as a Fire player and Sam Oden in the major squirts west. He was listed as Cambridge Isanti, but he played for the Fire this past season.
South
Zinser
Eklund
Anderson
Borwege
Hinze
Williams
Astor
Smith
Anderson
Birkstrand
Schuster
McDonell
Mickelson
Koloski
Hoelscher
Skogseth
Calupsky
East
May
Batta
Ravndalen
Olsen
Batta
O'Brien McLeod
Falconer
Brown
Schroeder
Wall
Karbo
Williams
Williams
Goodell
Wilson
Osborne
Lawler
West
Scobee
Sawatzke
Headrick
Loveland
Powers
Duffy
Bjerkebek
McLaughlin
Simon
Meister
Brustad
Maaske
King
Martini
Tomberlin
Hardie
Rooney
Were these U10 or 1997's? The site said a 1998 girls division and 1997 girls division. I suppose it's so long ago but in case you remember? I'm assuming these were all 1997's? Thanks
South
Zinser
Eklund
Anderson
Borwege
Hinze
Williams
Astor
Smith
Anderson
Birkstrand
Schuster
McDonell
Mickelson
Koloski
Hoelscher
Skogseth
Calupsky
East
May
Batta
Ravndalen
Olsen
Batta
O'Brien McLeod
Falconer
Brown
Schroeder
Wall
Karbo
Williams
Williams
Goodell
Wilson
Osborne
Lawler
West
Scobee
Sawatzke
Headrick
Loveland
Powers
Duffy
Bjerkebek
McLaughlin
Simon
Meister
Brustad
Maaske
King
Martini
Tomberlin
Hardie
Rooney
Were these U10 or 1997's? The site said a 1998 girls division and 1997 girls division. I suppose it's so long ago but in case you remember? I'm assuming these were all 1997's? Thanks
hmmm...can't remember. I know for the boys there was an Squirt Major and a Squirt Minor division...I think it's was probably 1997 and not U10, but I didn't pay close attention. Maybe repost this on the girls high school hockey site and someone will have an answer? Good Luck.
