Select 17

[davey]

Congrats to the kids who "made it", If like normal I would say about 20 of the 54 made it by playing well. Another 25 of 54 are like Nate Schmidt who is one of the top players at that age and should be on the team if your taking your best. The remaining 9 of 54 are either put on the teams because of somebody who is coaching or evaluating, same as the section teams, alot of east kids and I'am sure kids from other places don't even tryout. Thats to bad, they get a lot of exposure through selects. But it can get a little shadey when you have your High school coaches and youth coaches and I heard even some kids fathers were evaluating, it's not on the up & up for all. If it is, sounds like we will certainly see virginia at the excel next year, sounds like they had a pile of elites at both levels. But we'll see. Is there any stats out on the kids that made the 54?

Over on Gopher Puck Live, Iceburg has all of the season stats for the 54 players selected. Most players have very good numbers for the season and while I know stats do not tell everything, i think they can be an indicator of how each player performed during the season. Only 2 forwards stats jumped out at me. One had 7 points for the year and the other had 5pts for the year. I do not know whether each player had some injury problems during the season or what, they just kind of jumped out at me. Not saying they are not deserving kids as the evaluation process is in the eyes of the beholder.

How about last weekend, out of the 54 remaining, who were the big point getters and who did nothing, but still made it, I would bet that the 9 of 54 did'nt do much, and the remaining 45 contributed either points or +/-'s. Just how I've seen it in the past.

I do know of players who had goals in every game, and did not make it. Maybe they were in the right place at the right time and do not have the overall skill level of the other kids.

[Black Ice]

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

davey wrote:
Section 1AA/1A wins the Championship over 6AA/6A 7-1. Game was 2-1 after the first half before Secton 1 dominated the second half and put in 5 goals.
Section 1 takes both the great 8 and Advanced 17 Championships.


Why can't Section 1 do anything in the State Tournament?

Section 1 is just now (within the last year or 2) starting to really see the top teams in the section making bigger impacts than in the past......I think you will see a Section 1 team within the next 1-3 years definitely push into that State Championship caliber type team and win it. This is showing up at the Great 8 and the Select now and in the past it has not been as solid.

[/quote]

Mayo and John Marshall both had good state teams going back to the 70's.
JM won it in '79 and took 2nd in '77 and '89. Rather than keep 2 mega schools like Eden Prairie,Edina, etc. they split into a third school (Century)at the start of this decade. Lakeville also split a couple of years ago. Is there any doubt that Lakeville would eventually have had a championship caliber team had they stayed together. Right before the addition of Century in Rochester, began the rise of Lourdes in 1A as they pulled in more of the top players in Rochester. For the first year or so they had to contend with Red Wing in 1A who owned the section from 95-99 and did very well at state, winning it in '97. Lourdes sent highly ranked teams to state from 2000-2003 finishing 2nd once. They were ranked #1 in 03 when they were upset by Simley in the semi's. Lourdes will have a very strong team again next year, with New Prague as their only real obstacle to reaching state.

[ccm911]

Look for the hill-murray boys to do well this coming weekend, kohls westerhaus zepeda and johnson all had solid seasons and weekends and impressed me this past weekend.

players to watch:
buddish
garrder
lapic
leddy
thompson
montgomery
schmidt*
adams

The majority of these players put up decent numbers this past weekend and all should make the national camp.. just my two cents

was out this past weekend but seen him many times before

[itstime]

Are you saying Schmidt didn't play over the weekend but made the final 54?

[Wireless]

Players to watch -

Defense:

Leddy
Johnson
Schmidt
Lapic - recent move to defense
Benson
Alt
Thompson


Forwards:

Walters - 36 goals
Birkholz - 34 goals
Persian - 31 goals
Budish - 26 goals
Pitlick - 25 goals
Voight - 23 goals
Rehkamp - 23 goals
Kohls - 21 goals
Maetche - 21 goals
Lovick - 19 goals
Oliver - 17 goals
Gaarder - 17 goals
Zepeda - 14 goals
Skoog - 11 goals
Friedman - 11 goals

Goalies:

Fons
Casper
Arentz

[recenthockeyfan]

Are you saying Schmidt didn't play over the weekend but mad the final 54?

Yes.

And speaking of stats, look where the goalies who made it fell in the season based on stats, and look at the goalies who were cut. Can anyone there or otherwise explain how that happens?

[itstime]

Can someone explain how a player that doesn't even show up for the weekend makes it to the final 54? Don't get me wrong, Schmidt is a very good player but what does that say about the process.

[behonestbenice]

Its says that sometimes thier are extrenuating circumstances and the right decision has to be made. USA and MN hockey made the right decision for Mr Schmidt. He has been at the National Camp the last 2 years it certainly shouldn't be an issue he missed this weekend. I am sure it is not like he just said I can't make it because I'm busy. I am sure thier is a very good reason and it was looked into before any decision could be made. The process is fine.

[davey]

Are you saying Schmidt didn't play over the weekend but mad the final 54?

Yes.

And speaking of stats, look where the goalies who made it fell in the season based on stats, and look at the goalies who were cut. Can anyone there or otherwise explain how that happens?

Here are the goalie stats thru Sectional playoffs according to FOLLOWTHE PUCK.COM based on save% These stats are supplied by the coaches.

Rank Player Save% GAA

3* Tyler Brugggeman .934 1.81
6 Ben Podobinski .927 1.76
7* Trent Caspar .926 2.16
10* Alex Fons .919 2.30
21* Matt Hemingway .913 2.30
22 AJ Underwood .913 2.61
31 Michael Taffe .907 2.51
44* Paul Moberg .901 3.14
51 Danny Harper .897 2.57
92 Michael Webb .879 2.97
98* Matt Arentz .876 4.07

* Players are the goalies selected for the next phase. Like a previous poster said "Some of these players are picked pretty much ahead of time and others earn their way based on the weekend tryout.

[happymama]

Its says that sometimes thier are extrenuating circumstances and the right decision has to be made. USA and MN hockey made the right decision for Mr Schmidt. He has been at the National Camp the last 2 years it certainly shouldn't be an issue he missed this weekend. I am sure it is not like he just said I can't make it because I'm busy. I am sure thier is a very good reason and it was looked into before any decision could be made. The process is fine.

Couldn't have said it better. If players have injuries or other circumstances that limit their ability to tryout, it obviously hurts their chances of making the team. But, coaches/evaluators should definitely look at the overall player, their season accomplishments, the circumstances for not being able to tryout and their ability to be able to tryout in the next phase and make those hard decisions. It never seems fair to those that tryout but the goal should be to recognize the best players and get them on the team.

Also, regarding the goalie questions, seasonal stats are part of what you look at but you also have to look at the team in front of the goalie. If a team has horrible defense during the season the best goalie can only do so much. Perhaps the tryout team with better defense lets you see how good the goalie can play with a good team in front of him.

[itstime]

Like I said Schmidt is a great player but I guess I'm old school when it comes to things like this, and during a process like this it should be what you did at the time and not what you've done in the past. I'm not at all trying to start anything and trust me I don't have a kid or family member involved so I'm not some angry parent. Just would like to see everyone get an even shot. If certain players already are going to the next level no matter how they perform over the weekend why have them lace up the skates? From watching these things I think some of these top players come out knowing no matter what they will be going to the final 54 and don't give 100% so what are we teaching them? To me don't give anyone a break on what they've done in the past you work to earn your spot every time you touch the ice. How many of these players already will move on to the 54 no matter how they perform over the weekend?

[recenthockeyfan]

[Also, regarding the goalie questions, seasonal stats are part of what you look at but you also have to look at the team in front of the goalie. If a team has horrible defense during the season the best goalie can only do so much. Perhaps the tryout team with better defense lets you see how good the goalie can play with a good team in front of him.[/quote]
If you look at some of the selected skaters' stats and saw them play,
its hard to say that that had anything to do with their thinking. One of the goalies selected let in 5 goals in one game and had a chunk of his defense selected as well. Everyone can have a bad game. At the same time there are other goalies not taken who let in 4 or 5 the entire weekend with a decent amount of shots, penalty shots , OT and all, and didn't have a "bad game". Defensemen were the most at risk for being overlooked with minimal season stats and/or no coach "promoting" them.

My initial post asked for help in understanding the outcome. I agree with davey and eastranger19. The only logic to be had from some of the selections does not appear to be about efforts during the season or at this tourney. And, you know what, it is what it is. But please, don't make statements on brochures and anywhere else that this is improved and all about honest evaluation efforts and giving every kid the same "look-see". If MN Hockey really wants to be above reproach, bring in evaluators and coaches who either don't have anyone participating or, whose evaluations for kids they have had contact with are not counted. It can't be that hard to find those kinds of folks in this state, can it?

Regardless, its not the kids' concern. Good for them for getting there. And good luck to all in the next round.

[suntzu]

This isn't about Minnesota Hockey or the tryout process being "fair" for every kid that makes it to the Festival. This is about USA Hockey and their desire to get the top kids to the national evaluation camps.

Any evaluator that has a clue knows who the top kids are. That being said, there was more than one kid who made a national camp last year that did not make it to the Final 54 this year, which makes sense because kids change form year to year. I think the evaluators do a pretty darn good job at these things. It's not easy to watch 20+ hours worth of hockey and then make choices that will please everyone (impossible), let alone get the right kids to the next phase.

Schmidt is injured. Mark my words that he will be at the 17 national camp regardless of whether or not he competes at the Final 54. Why? Because USA Hockey wants him there.

[itstime]

So does USA Hockey bring to the attention that there are certain players that will already be going to the final 54 and instead of actually looking to fill 54 spots we are looking to fill 20 (or what ever the number is). So the bottom line is USA hockey is not making it an even playing field for the weekend. If your out played that weekend so be it, best of luck next year and I'm sure you'll have a bright future in the game but this player just out played you this weekend. Like I say I guess I'm old school and I need to change with times. Don't get me wrong just because a kid doesn't make it to the next level doesn't mean they should give up, you can still make things happen down the road so stay with it.

[flatontheice]

So does USA Hockey bring to the attention that there are certain players that will already be going to the final 54 and instead of actually looking to fill 54 spots we are looking to fill 20 (or what ever the number is). So the bottom line is USA hockey is not making it an even playing field for the weekend. If your out played that weekend so be it, best of luck next year and I'm sure you'll have a bright future in the game but this player just out played you this weekend. Like I say I guess I'm old school and I need to change with times. Don't get me wrong just because a kid doesn't make it to the next level doesn't mean they should give up, you can still make things happen down the road so stay with it.

I agree!! In fact there are plenty of kids that have been on the national teams that have never played D1 too.

[toepull7]

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why can't Section 1 do anything in the State Tournament?

Section 1 is just now (within the last year or 2) starting to really see the top teams in the section making bigger impacts than in the past......I think you will see a Section 1 team within the next 1-3 years definitely push into that State Championship caliber type team and win it. This is showing up at the Great 8 and the Select now and in the past it has not been as solid.

Mayo and John Marshall both had good state teams going back to the 70's.
JM won it in '79 and took 2nd in '77 and '89. Rather than keep 2 mega schools like Eden Prairie,Edina, etc. they split into a third school (Century)at the start of this decade. Lakeville also split a couple of years ago. Is there any doubt that Lakeville would eventually have had a championship caliber team had they stayed together. Right before the addition of Century in Rochester, began the rise of Lourdes in 1A as they pulled in more of the top players in Rochester. For the first year or so they had to contend with Red Wing in 1A who owned the section from 95-99 and did very well at state, winning it in '97. Lourdes sent highly ranked teams to state from 2000-2003 finishing 2nd once. They were ranked #1 in 03 when they were upset by Simley in the semi's. Lourdes will have a very strong team again next year, with New Prague as their only real obstacle to reaching state.[/quote]

I dont dispute that section 1A/AA has had great teams in the past. The question was posed about why they havent faired well in State which I assume is looking at recently. I think now more so with Section 1A there are far more teams at the top compared to only 1-2 teams in the past that stood above the rest. If you look at this past year in 1A you had West, Lourdes, Albert Lea, New Prague, and Rew Wing all in the top 20 at one time or another. The other thing to keep in mind at least with the Great 8 team is it was filled by majority Section 1A over Section 1AA players. This says a lot about the entire talent level of section 1A from top to bottom as well. Hence, this again is why section 1A most likely will have Championship type teams in the near future.

[DmanDad1980]

Section 1AA/1A wins the Championship over 6AA/6A 7-1. Game was 2-1 after the first half before Secton 1 dominated the second half and put in 5 goals.
Section 1 takes both the great 8 and Advanced 17 Championships.

Why can't Section 1 do anything in the State Tournament?

Simply... Depth!

There are many very talented kids in 1A & 1AA... But...

That is the bane of Southern MN hockey. Depth. Look at all the teams in 1A & 1AA, and the 1st line talent is very good, but then drops considerably as you go to the 2nd & 3rd lines (ie Defense tandems as well...)
Now, take those teams and go play a metro team or a traditional northern power team w/ 3 or 4 solid lines, one line is not going to cut it over three periods. The Southern team will usually struggle using the 3rd line, so they go 1/2, 1/2/3, and fatigue will get them in the end every time!

It's a numbers game, 40 to 60 (maybe more in some cases) kids trying out at the AA metro school...
In the South, even in Rochester, at most, you will struggle to get 30 kids out for varsity and JV combined...

Depth!

[Black Ice]

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why can't Section 1 do anything in the State Tournament?

Section 1 is just now (within the last year or 2) starting to really see the top teams in the section making bigger impacts than in the past......I think you will see a Section 1 team within the next 1-3 years definitely push into that State Championship caliber type team and win it. This is showing up at the Great 8 and the Select now and in the past it has not been as solid.

Mayo and John Marshall both had good state teams going back to the 70's.
JM won it in '79 and took 2nd in '77 and '89. Rather than keep 2 mega schools like Eden Prairie,Edina, etc. they split into a third school (Century)at the start of this decade. Lakeville also split a couple of years ago. Is there any doubt that Lakeville would eventually have had a championship caliber team had they stayed together. Right before the addition of Century in Rochester, began the rise of Lourdes in 1A as they pulled in more of the top players in Rochester. For the first year or so they had to contend with Red Wing in 1A who owned the section from 95-99 and did very well at state, winning it in '97. Lourdes sent highly ranked teams to state from 2000-2003 finishing 2nd once. They were ranked #1 in 03 when they were upset by Simley in the semi's. Lourdes will have a very strong team again next year, with New Prague as their only real obstacle to reaching state.

I dont dispute that section 1A/AA has had great teams in the past. The question was posed about why they havent faired well in State which I assume is looking at recently. I think now more so with Section 1A there are far more teams at the top compared to only 1-2 teams in the past that stood above the rest. If you look at this past year in 1A you had West, Lourdes, Albert Lea, New Prague, and Rew Wing all in the top 20 at one time or another. The other thing to keep in mind at least with the Great 8 team is it was filled by majority Section 1A over Section 1AA players. This says a lot about the entire talent level of section 1A from top to bottom as well. Hence, this again is why section 1A most likely will have Championship type teams in the near future.[/quote]

If the question is posed by someone younger who hasn't seen that many state tournaments, then you have a point. The depth of good teams is more a result of the realignment of teams from several sections being thrown together in 1A: Lourdes/Red Wing/Northfield (3A), New Prague/ Faribault (6A), Albert Lea/West (1A)holdovers. This year West happen to have their best team ever. Next year they'll be decent, but not a ranked type squad. If Lapic defects New Prague they will have a hard time getting past Lourdes in sections. Previously (mid 90's) 1A was a 2 team race, Lourdes and Red Wing. Once they were removed it was Albert Lea and East. The great 8 and select teams from southern mn. have had success before this year. One example was the select 15 group from dist. 4 in 2000. They had Kilpatrick(Colorado), Borer (St Cloud st), Bader (semi pro in Canada at 16), Gaulrapp (Minn st) and numerous other good players. They won the state tournament in a breeze. None of the games were even close. That team didn't even have any kids from Rochester or Red Wing.

[toepull7]

Section 1AA/1A wins the Championship over 6AA/6A 7-1. Game was 2-1 after the first half before Secton 1 dominated the second half and put in 5 goals.
Section 1 takes both the great 8 and Advanced 17 Championships.

Why can't Section 1 do anything in the State Tournament?

Simply... Depth!

There are many very talented kids in 1A & 1AA... But...

That is the bane of Southern MN hockey. Depth. Look at all the teams in 1A & 1AA, and the 1st line talent is very good, but then drops considerably as you go to the 2nd & 3rd lines (ie Defense tandems as well...)
Now, take those teams and go play a metro team or a traditional northern power team w/ 3 or 4 solid lines, one line is not going to cut it over three periods. The Southern team will usually struggle using the 3rd line, so they go 1/2, 1/2/3, and fatigue will get them in the end every time!

It's a numbers game, 40 to 60 (maybe more in some cases) kids trying out at the AA metro school...
In the South, even in Rochester, at most, you will struggle to get 30 kids out for varsity and JV combined...

Depth!

I agree with the depth idea in Southern MN to a certain extent but I would have to say coming from a metro area myself......the majority of the metro teams as well as the northern teams will go 1-2, 1-2-3 also in big game situations. The majority of hockey teams in MN high schools dont have great enough depth to run 4 lines including your top end teams. Usually each top end team has 2 very good lines and the 3rd is a checking line that if you are lucky can also produce scoring....this is all over the state as far as I am concerned and the high end southern MN schools in section 1A had easily 2 solid lines and a good 3rd checking line that coaches were not afraid to put out in many situations. If fact I remember West this past year putting their 3rd out many times in key situations even in the D zone against other teams #1 from games I saw. They, along with many teams in Section 1A rolled 3 lines quite often unless injuries were present.

[toepull7]

Mayo and John Marshall both had good state teams going back to the 70's.
JM won it in '79 and took 2nd in '77 and '89. Rather than keep 2 mega schools like Eden Prairie,Edina, etc. they split into a third school (Century)at the start of this decade. Lakeville also split a couple of years ago. Is there any doubt that Lakeville would eventually have had a championship caliber team had they stayed together. Right before the addition of Century in Rochester, began the rise of Lourdes in 1A as they pulled in more of the top players in Rochester. For the first year or so they had to contend with Red Wing in 1A who owned the section from 95-99 and did very well at state, winning it in '97. Lourdes sent highly ranked teams to state from 2000-2003 finishing 2nd once. They were ranked #1 in 03 when they were upset by Simley in the semi's. Lourdes will have a very strong team again next year, with New Prague as their only real obstacle to reaching state.

I dont dispute that section 1A/AA has had great teams in the past. The question was posed about why they havent faired well in State which I assume is looking at recently. I think now more so with Section 1A there are far more teams at the top compared to only 1-2 teams in the past that stood above the rest. If you look at this past year in 1A you had West, Lourdes, Albert Lea, New Prague, and Rew Wing all in the top 20 at one time or another. The other thing to keep in mind at least with the Great 8 team is it was filled by majority Section 1A over Section 1AA players. This says a lot about the entire talent level of section 1A from top to bottom as well. Hence, this again is why section 1A most likely will have Championship type teams in the near future.

If the question is posed by someone younger who hasn't seen that many state tournaments, then you have a point. The depth of good teams is more a result of the realignment of teams from several sections being thrown together in 1A: Lourdes/Red Wing/Northfield (3A), New Prague/ Faribault (6A), Albert Lea/West (1A)holdovers. This year West happen to have their best team ever. Next year they'll be decent, but not a ranked type squad. If Lapic defects New Prague they will have a hard time getting past Lourdes in sections. Previously (mid 90's) 1A was a 2 team race, Lourdes and Red Wing. Once they were removed it was Albert Lea and East. The great 8 and select teams from southern mn. have had success before this year. One example was the select 15 group from dist. 4 in 2000. They had Kilpatrick(Colorado), Borer (St Cloud st), Bader (semi pro in Canada at 16), Gaulrapp (Minn st) and numerous other good players. They won the state tournament in a breeze. None of the games were even close. That team didn't even have any kids from Rochester or Red Wing.[/quote]

I agree with the realignment and depth it created.

[hockeyfan32]

how many goals did each goalie give up in the weekend

[davey]

how many goals did each goalie give up in the weekend

I can only speak for Section 1.

Bruggeman 1 goal against
Arentz 4 goals against

[Black Ice]

Section 1AA/1A wins the Championship over 6AA/6A 7-1. Game was 2-1 after the first half before Secton 1 dominated the second half and put in 5 goals.
Section 1 takes both the great 8 and Advanced 17 Championships.

Why can't Section 1 do anything in the State Tournament?

Simply... Depth!

There are many very talented kids in 1A & 1AA... But...

That is the bane of Southern MN hockey. Depth. Look at all the teams in 1A & 1AA, and the 1st line talent is very good, but then drops considerably as you go to the 2nd & 3rd lines (ie Defense tandems as well...)
Now, take those teams and go play a metro team or a traditional northern power team w/ 3 or 4 solid lines, one line is not going to cut it over three periods. The Southern team will usually struggle using the 3rd line, so they go 1/2, 1/2/3, and fatigue will get them in the end every time!

It's a numbers game, 40 to 60 (maybe more in some cases) kids trying out at the AA metro school...
In the South, even in Rochester, at most, you will struggle to get 30 kids out for varsity and JV combined...

Depth!

Exactly. The lack of depth is mainly caused by the lack of a strong hockey tradition in many of the southern mn. towns. There are plenty of good athletes in all these southern cities big and small , including the western towns in 3A. Look at New Ulm and Sleepy Eye in baseball. They don't take a backseat to anyone including the big metro schools. Albert Lea seems to have developed a tradition in hockey which keeps their squads competitive every year.
My neighbor moved here from a non-hockey state and was a D1 athlete in college. He has a young preschooler who seems to have inherited some of the same athletic ability. When I suggested he should let his son give hockey a try and that he would really enjoy it, the look on his face was one of total horror. These are the types of kids that teams down here need to be adding to their programs. Strong traditions in hockey would draw more of these kids to the sport.
Numbers doesn't always equate to success (though it can't hurt). Roseau doesn't have big numbers, but the % of quality athletes they get, coupled with the great coaching system they have in place, is really amazing.

[puuck]

New Ulm baseball is a joke, the coaches sophmore nephew is on varsity.

[Black Ice]

New Ulm baseball is a joke, they play junk teams and the coaches sophmore nephew is on varsity, he makes TONS of errors and cant hit to save his life.

From an article in the Mankato Free Press talking about the current coach who took over the baseball team in New Ulm: "taking over for coaching legend Jim Senske who retired in 2004 after 39 yrs. with 707wins , the most wins in the history of Minnesota baseball ", including a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP in class AAA (large schools)