Crash,
You definitely have drank too much of the kool aid.
Either Alexandria or So MN Express would blow the Ice Hawks away. Fargo too for that matter.
It would be very difficult for ANY Ice Hawk player to make any of these teams.
Minnesota Ice Hawks Clinch Leauge Title 4-Peat!!!!!
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Offside I do agree with a lot youre saying, however there were 0 freshman on the St. Mary's roster this season that came straight from high school. There are a total of 3 players on the varsity roster that were true freshman at one time... There are however a few players that played for the Icehawks, and obviously everyone else came from many junior leagues primarily the NAHL, however, if you look around the midwest d-3 leagues (MIAC, NCHA, MCHA), there are plenty of players that played post high school in the MJHL before going on to college, and that would strongly disagree with your assessment that the league is doing a "disservice" to these players.
smupuck9 is dead on,
offside you have a agenda, and not much but the Minnesota High School Hockey Myth to back it up.
Face it a good high school player is NOT able to step in to a college team like they could 10-15 years ago. There are better players from more places now, Texas, CA, Fla, ect. Alot of the HS players that come up to College teams play JV for a year or two then quit and those JV teams are not good. Last year the Ice Hawks beat the St. Marys JV team 10-0 or something like that.
So if a high school team has no chance of going to the State Tourny are they doing a disservice to their players because they won't play college or play in any 'real big' games?
I think you are offside.
offside you have a agenda, and not much but the Minnesota High School Hockey Myth to back it up.
Face it a good high school player is NOT able to step in to a college team like they could 10-15 years ago. There are better players from more places now, Texas, CA, Fla, ect. Alot of the HS players that come up to College teams play JV for a year or two then quit and those JV teams are not good. Last year the Ice Hawks beat the St. Marys JV team 10-0 or something like that.
So if a high school team has no chance of going to the State Tourny are they doing a disservice to their players because they won't play college or play in any 'real big' games?
I think you are offside.
the difference is that in high school kids primary role is to go to school whereas in tier 3, I'm not sure what their primary role is? just to play hockey and go to school part time? play hockey and work part time? just play hockey?
most of these kids will not move on beyond tier 3, that is my point. it is a disservice for the league and coaches to lead some of these kids on and hold out hope that they will play D3 or D1.
my advice to all of these kids; don't listen to what the coach says about your future. they will tell you only what you want to hear not what is real.
most of these kids will not move on beyond tier 3, that is my point. it is a disservice for the league and coaches to lead some of these kids on and hold out hope that they will play D3 or D1.
my advice to all of these kids; don't listen to what the coach says about your future. they will tell you only what you want to hear not what is real.
That's a pretty bold statement. Is it my understanding that you're of a mind that if you are an average to good high school player with no offers on the table at graduation, you should hang 'em up? Those players that are on that borderline aren't supposed to keep working at it and pursue something they love to do without a guarantee, but with a chance to advance? I have no experience at any level past high school, but it seems to me that there are many kids out there that are capable of acheiving success at higher levels if that's what they want to do. With the abundance of junior leagues in our country, there's a place to play and to possibly advance to a small school, or even a low level minor league system. Saying that leagues such as the MJHL are a waste of time is a pretty broad generalization. From people I've met, talked to and read comments from, it seems that the only people that don't care for the league are people that never actually got to play in it, or people who took the advice of others such as yourself that just don't believe in it.Offside wrote:
my advice to all of these kids; don't listen to what the coach says about your future. they will tell you only what you want to hear not what is real.
Character is who you are when no one is watching
ice hawks
The Ice Hawks are a solid MJHL team nothing beyond that, they were in the easiest pool at Nationals and could not even advance out of that pool. Nationals was a joke, I saw three good teams Polar Bears ok but the NH Monarchs and Jersey Hitmen were on a whole different leval the walked right through it to the Championship, none of those other leagues deserve to be called Junior a tier III, The EJHL is just way above the rest (not inlcuding the NAHL and USHL) The Hawks did not do squat at nationals. Maybe one D1 kid the rest maybe d3 players. Sorry its just the truth!
Offsides,Offside wrote:the difference is that in high school kids primary role is to go to school whereas in tier 3, I'm not sure what their primary role is? just to play hockey and go to school part time? play hockey and work part time? just play hockey?
most of these kids will not move on beyond tier 3, that is my point. it is a disservice for the league and coaches to lead some of these kids on and hold out hope that they will play D3 or D1.
my advice to all of these kids; don't listen to what the coach says about your future. they will tell you only what you want to hear not what is real.
Well that is like your opinion man! Sorry for the Big Lebowski quote, but It is true. Saying that Tier 3 does not send anyone to college is a joke. You dont know who I am, and I dont know you, but I will tell you that I am "in the know" with Junior and college hockey. While T1 and T2 will send more kids to D-1 and to other levels, the people I talk to love players from "some teams" in our league. Playing for the Ice Hawks, Owls and a couple other places are good oppertunites for kids to get another look. A direct quote from a D-3 school coach was this. " A player who comes out of a good MJHL program and is top end player is just as good for me if not better then a 3rd 4th line plugger in the NAHL".
He went on to say that a guy who plays PP and PK and big mins in the MJ knows how to act under pressure and play in big situations. The same cant be said for a lot of guys in the NAHL.
I am not going to say in any way shape or form that the MJHL is better then the NAHL as a whole. Just not true. There may be 1-3 players in the MJ that could play D-1. However it is still a hell of a league if you get in with the right program. Junior is about DEVELOPMENT, learning the game, systems, the grind. Playing for a succesful program and one that has its head on straight is a wise move for a player who does not have a SOLID offer on the table. Is the MJ for everyone??? NO, but neither is Junior hockey.
OH BTW, Check out the EJHL and moreover the New Hamp Monachrs. They are T3 and have something like 13 D1 Commits.
Just my 2.5 cents
One thing I agree with you on is that Juniors is for development.
I said that most of these kids in the MJ will not move on beyond D3. The committed players from the EJHL committed when they were younger not because they play in the EJHL. Most of these kids have no where else to play out east unless they do have high school hockey, which most states do not. If you are good, you play juniors starting when you are 16 or 17. The really good players go to the USHL.
Your comparison of third or fourth line players in the NAHL and first or second in the MJ doesn't sound valid. If they are first or second liners in the MJ, why aren't they in the NAHL? Most MJ players want to move up to the higher leagues. So what happened? They couldn't make the NAHL? They really like playing in the MJ? Just cuz a D3 coach tells you that, do you believe them?
I said that most of these kids in the MJ will not move on beyond D3. The committed players from the EJHL committed when they were younger not because they play in the EJHL. Most of these kids have no where else to play out east unless they do have high school hockey, which most states do not. If you are good, you play juniors starting when you are 16 or 17. The really good players go to the USHL.
Your comparison of third or fourth line players in the NAHL and first or second in the MJ doesn't sound valid. If they are first or second liners in the MJ, why aren't they in the NAHL? Most MJ players want to move up to the higher leagues. So what happened? They couldn't make the NAHL? They really like playing in the MJ? Just cuz a D3 coach tells you that, do you believe them?
First things first. Look up and down USHL rosters how many east coast kids do you find. I counted I think 21 with 18 or so being regulars. Being from the East Coast, I can tell you that MOST kids dont go to the USHL because they feel that they can get just as much exposure to the schools they want to go to (BU BC Maine etc) as if they went to the USHL. The USHL is great, no doubt, but there are other options for kids.Offside wrote:One thing I agree with you on is that Juniors is for development.
I said that most of these kids in the MJ will not move on beyond D3. The committed players from the EJHL committed when they were younger not because they play in the EJHL. Most of these kids have no where else to play out east unless they do have high school hockey, which most states do not. If you are good, you play juniors starting when you are 16 or 17. The really good players go to the USHL.
Your comparison of third or fourth line players in the NAHL and first or second in the MJ doesn't sound valid. If they are first or second liners in the MJ, why aren't they in the NAHL? Most MJ players want to move up to the higher leagues. So what happened? They couldn't make the NAHL? They really like playing in the MJ? Just cuz a D3 coach tells you that, do you believe them?
Saying that kids are already signed before they play in the EJ. That is the pot calling the kettle black. 3/4 of USHL kids are the exact same thing pal. Look at the birth years of USHL players. Lots of HS age kids there too. The really good kids go to the USHL?? All the time?? Have you seen New Hamp in the EJ???
OH all 3 players on Alexandrias top line came out of the MJ. Their tough guy and 1-2 Dmen as well. No real bearing on argument, just fuel for thought.
Why are the top NAHL players not playing in the USHL? Nuff said on that one.
Yes, I do believe a coach that tells me that. Why, I have seen him and others put it to good use. Are you going to get the same TOP END guys from the MJ as the NA. Prob not in most cases, that being said, how many USHL guys go to D1 and do nothing. Quite a few. This is a stupid arugment... Anyway Like I said, a program the St. Louis Jr Blues, DBQ, Rochester, Nor Mass (AJ) are all good programs on the Ice. I have heard some horry stories of a few places, but im not here to rip any one team, or support one for that matter.
U are right, most MJ players wont move past D3. WHO CARES, they more then likely got a great education and had a chance to play hockey. A chance they more then likely would not have been given had they not played in the MJHL. Is getting an education not the point???
Half the time I wonder why guys like Okposo even played college hockey. Go play in the WHL, thats where guys like that belong. It does a school NO good for a guy to come in for one year. These schools shell out a TON of money on schollys. These players are also taking away a spot of guy who has D1 ability and could play at a UofM for 4 years. Is advancing players to Pro the objective of a COLLEGE program. Sure seems like it now. That is not the way it should be. That is what the W and O are for.
To be continued.... I hope
Re: ice hawks
BigLow,BigLOW55 wrote:The Ice Hawks are a solid MJHL team nothing beyond that, they were in the easiest pool at Nationals and could not even advance out of that pool. Nationals was a joke, I saw three good teams Polar Bears ok but the NH Monarchs and Jersey Hitmen were on a whole different leval the walked right through it to the Championship, none of those other leagues deserve to be called Junior a tier III, The EJHL is just way above the rest (not inlcuding the NAHL and USHL) The Hawks did not do squat at nationals. Maybe one D1 kid the rest maybe d3 players. Sorry its just the truth!
You are right, the EJ is one hell of a league, the AJ is pretty good as well from what I saw the past couple of years. IMO, at the T3 level, the EJ is in a class by themselves, and is some groups would beat up on a lot or most NAHL teams. MY opinin is the NA and EJ are very close. The next level is the MJ, CSHL. The Nor Pac and WSHL have a couple of good teams each. From what I saw this year, DBQ had 1-2 kids who could maybe skate D1. Hawks prob 2 kids who could. Tall lanky forward and a smallish skilled Dman. There is 1-2 others in the MJ, one from the Norther Lights and one from Wisconsin.
Remember, most EJ teams get the pick of the litter (in most cases) where as the MJ teams are picking up players who either fell through the cracks or are not quite there. This was also the first year for many of these leagues at this level. Time will tell, but its a tough row to ho (sp?) for teams to match the EJ.
[quote="Offside"]the difference is that in high school kids primary role is to go to school whereas in tier 3, I'm not sure what their primary role is? just to play hockey and go to school part time? play hockey and work part time? just play hockey?
most of these kids will not move on beyond tier 3, that is my point. it is a disservice for the league and coaches to lead some of these kids on and hold out hope that they will play D3 or D1.
my advice to all of these kids; don't listen to what the coach says about your future. they will tell you only what you want to hear not what is real.[/quote]
As a coach in this league, I take alot of offense to what you just said offside. I coach for the Hudson Crusaders and in every single meeting with the players and their parents there was never 1 time that anyone on our coaching staff or management promised that we would send someone on to D-I or even D-III team for that matter. The only thing we guarantee is a chance for them to develop their skills at Total Hockey while they work with Dean Talafous and a chance to earn a spot in the lineup. Nothing more than that.
As for kids playing Tier-III, for most teams in the MNJHL, all of their players are required to either attend community college PT or have a job while they are playing. College teams aren't looking for guys who are just sitting around all day, going to practice and playing games. By having a job or going to school they are bettering themselves as people not just as hockey players and thats what a D-III coach is looking for. A better overall human being.
And as for most of these kids won't move past tier III, you should check out the MNJHL's website and take a look at the college list. Many of the guys on that list have made significant impacts on their college teams. Just look at UW-Stout for the past few years and you can see the proof... [b]Matt Mylnarcyk [/b](Lakers)-Captain, [b]Mike Stone[/b] (Northern Lights)-D-III All American- moved on to Texas of the ECHL, [b]Joel Gaulrapp [/b](Ice Hawks)-2nd leading scorer, [b]Jeff Wheeler[/b] (Dubuque)-5th leading scorer, [b]Adam Boche[/b]-1 of their top defensemen, [b]Luke Schroeder[/b] (Owls)-Captain. I'm gonna throw this guy in there just because he's my buddy but [b]Joel Rechlicz[/b] (Lakers)- Albany River Rats of AHL just signed a 3 year contract with the NY Islanders.
Now I'm not saying every single guy who plays in our league will move on to a D-I or D-III team but a good amount of them will and without this league many of them would not have been ready to make that jump to college.
I think you need to readjust your thinking because this league has come along way in the past 5-6 years and it will only continue to get stronger.
most of these kids will not move on beyond tier 3, that is my point. it is a disservice for the league and coaches to lead some of these kids on and hold out hope that they will play D3 or D1.
my advice to all of these kids; don't listen to what the coach says about your future. they will tell you only what you want to hear not what is real.[/quote]
As a coach in this league, I take alot of offense to what you just said offside. I coach for the Hudson Crusaders and in every single meeting with the players and their parents there was never 1 time that anyone on our coaching staff or management promised that we would send someone on to D-I or even D-III team for that matter. The only thing we guarantee is a chance for them to develop their skills at Total Hockey while they work with Dean Talafous and a chance to earn a spot in the lineup. Nothing more than that.
As for kids playing Tier-III, for most teams in the MNJHL, all of their players are required to either attend community college PT or have a job while they are playing. College teams aren't looking for guys who are just sitting around all day, going to practice and playing games. By having a job or going to school they are bettering themselves as people not just as hockey players and thats what a D-III coach is looking for. A better overall human being.
And as for most of these kids won't move past tier III, you should check out the MNJHL's website and take a look at the college list. Many of the guys on that list have made significant impacts on their college teams. Just look at UW-Stout for the past few years and you can see the proof... [b]Matt Mylnarcyk [/b](Lakers)-Captain, [b]Mike Stone[/b] (Northern Lights)-D-III All American- moved on to Texas of the ECHL, [b]Joel Gaulrapp [/b](Ice Hawks)-2nd leading scorer, [b]Jeff Wheeler[/b] (Dubuque)-5th leading scorer, [b]Adam Boche[/b]-1 of their top defensemen, [b]Luke Schroeder[/b] (Owls)-Captain. I'm gonna throw this guy in there just because he's my buddy but [b]Joel Rechlicz[/b] (Lakers)- Albany River Rats of AHL just signed a 3 year contract with the NY Islanders.
Now I'm not saying every single guy who plays in our league will move on to a D-I or D-III team but a good amount of them will and without this league many of them would not have been ready to make that jump to college.
I think you need to readjust your thinking because this league has come along way in the past 5-6 years and it will only continue to get stronger.
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Blue&Gold
Question for you Coach: Of all the kids that crossed your roster this year (not sure about yours, but many of the teams probably had 30+ kids listed on the roster at some time, though not all at once of course) how many can/will play college hockey? How about in your league (MNJHL)? This is an honest question as I really don't know because I haven't watched it all that close. I do know many of the kids that played in St. Cloud, and although many of them did/will go on to college, few of them will play there. (Now, keep in mind that I'm comparing this to the NAHL and the USHL... and though it's not fair, that's where I am in my thoughts.)
Nothing wrong with that either. If a kid wants to keep playing and chasing their dream, I'm all for it. However, I will agree with the post that to listen to the selling of a team/league by a coach is dangerous. You can take offense or not, but I've seen the ugly side of the junior programs, and not everyone is honest about this. You may be, and if so I applaud you.
Nothing wrong with that either. If a kid wants to keep playing and chasing their dream, I'm all for it. However, I will agree with the post that to listen to the selling of a team/league by a coach is dangerous. You can take offense or not, but I've seen the ugly side of the junior programs, and not everyone is honest about this. You may be, and if so I applaud you.
More kool aid please
I stick to my point that most who play in the MJHL will not even play D3. If they want to chase their dream fine. Be very skeptical of what you hear from your coaches. Most will tell you what you want to hear. They are salesman whose job goal is quite different (make money) from the player's goal (move on to the next level, D3, D1).
From this years team, we had 27 total players on our roster throughout the season. Some were before and afters, some were traded because of their own choice. This is very low compared to most junior teams but it is part our program that we commit to the same group of guys all season. Basically our team isn't a game of musical chairs like some teams.
From this years team, we had 0 veterans on our club. So our commitment list won't be nearly as large as some of the other teams in our league. But from what it sounds like these are some players that will be moving on: Matt Wylie-Finlandia, Brett Wilday-Crookston, Jake Pumper-Superior, Brett Weber-St. Mary's, Reed Zweber is considering 2 schools in the MIAC, Scott Liebsch-UW Stout. I think every single one of these guys will play substantially on their college teams next year.
We've also had about 5 more players invited to many NAHL main camps this summer and I think atleast 2 or 3 will make a tier-II team. I believe all 5 of these guys will play D-III and some of them have already rejected some D-III teams because they want to play another year of juniors.
As for the rest of our team, besides 2 or 3 players, I think with another year in our league and a little more development they should be able to play at the D-III level.
And for your question about the rest of the league, the talent varies from team to team. But from last year I could probably pick about 50-60 kids that were ready to move on to a D-III team at the end of the season. Another 40 kids that with another year or so could move on. You always have to take into account that some of the kids will mature when they are 18 and some will mature when they are 20.
From this years team, we had 0 veterans on our club. So our commitment list won't be nearly as large as some of the other teams in our league. But from what it sounds like these are some players that will be moving on: Matt Wylie-Finlandia, Brett Wilday-Crookston, Jake Pumper-Superior, Brett Weber-St. Mary's, Reed Zweber is considering 2 schools in the MIAC, Scott Liebsch-UW Stout. I think every single one of these guys will play substantially on their college teams next year.
We've also had about 5 more players invited to many NAHL main camps this summer and I think atleast 2 or 3 will make a tier-II team. I believe all 5 of these guys will play D-III and some of them have already rejected some D-III teams because they want to play another year of juniors.
As for the rest of our team, besides 2 or 3 players, I think with another year in our league and a little more development they should be able to play at the D-III level.
And for your question about the rest of the league, the talent varies from team to team. But from last year I could probably pick about 50-60 kids that were ready to move on to a D-III team at the end of the season. Another 40 kids that with another year or so could move on. You always have to take into account that some of the kids will mature when they are 18 and some will mature when they are 20.
I'll tell Offside this, a higher percent of MJHL players will play college hockey than MNHS, now that's a fact!
More MNHS All Conf players per team than the average MNHS team, another fact.
MNJHL is better than you think, when the Hawks moved here to Rochester I found out the hard way, but it is pretty good hockey!
More MNHS All Conf players per team than the average MNHS team, another fact.
MNJHL is better than you think, when the Hawks moved here to Rochester I found out the hard way, but it is pretty good hockey!
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friendlyreminder
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:53 pm
If you look on their blog (on the webpage) the name a few. Its kind of hard to read so if you go to the post bulletin website/sports they name 3-4 guys. Some pretty good players out of souther minnesota. I have heard rumors of a few more, but I wont post those until they ARE 4Sure.
Again, the staff looks to be putting a very good team on the ice.
Again, the staff looks to be putting a very good team on the ice.
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southernmnscout
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:08 pm
Re: Tier 3 and Ice Hawks
So, I guess you are saying that your kid maybe should have just gone straight to school????????Offside wrote:If you can't do well at least at the NAHL level, just go to school. I am not trying to be mean here, just asking some realistic questions.
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Goldy Gopher
- Posts: 2475
- Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:41 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
156 teams compared to 9 teams hmmm, good argument. I can tell you're a Hawks fan.crash wrote:I'll tell Offside this, a higher percent of MJHL players will play college hockey than MNHS, now that's a fact!
More MNHS All Conf players per team than the average MNHS team, another fact.
MNJHL is better than you think, when the Hawks moved here to Rochester I found out the hard way, but it is pretty good hockey!
The U invented swagger.
Well, the statement is made that the MJHL and the Ice Hawks level of play is lower than High School...this isn't the fact.
If a higher % of players from the MJHL move on to college hockey that would be a good sign of a higher level of play...right?
I hate to make a Gopher fan think when the Frozen Four is on tonight...oh wait...got the night off from watching hockey eh?
Just kidding, I am a Gopher fan too...but just for tonight....
Go Beavers!
Go Catmounts!?!
If a higher % of players from the MJHL move on to college hockey that would be a good sign of a higher level of play...right?
I hate to make a Gopher fan think when the Frozen Four is on tonight...oh wait...got the night off from watching hockey eh?
Just kidding, I am a Gopher fan too...but just for tonight....
Go Beavers!
Go Catmounts!?!
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Goldy Gopher
- Posts: 2475
- Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:41 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
Make 9 teams out of the best high schoolers in the state and then compare the percentages.crash wrote:Well, the statement is made that the MJHL and the Ice Hawks level of play is lower than High School...this isn't the fact.
If a higher % of players from the MJHL move on to college hockey that would be a good sign of a higher level of play...right?
I hate to make a Gopher fan think when the Frozen Four is on tonight...oh wait...got the night off from watching hockey eh?
Just kidding, I am a Gopher fan too...but just for tonight....
Go Beavers!
Go Catmounts!?!
The U invented swagger.