OUT State A State tournament no more

Media · Post by **Media** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:49 pm

Please read the the youth Hockey forum for the full story, It is in my opinion apalling

Central · Post by **Central** » Mon May 05, 2008 5:07 pm

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/assorted ... nament.pdf

I agree this is not a positive direction! Hopefully this will be revisited!

Thunderbird77 · Post by **Thunderbird77** » Tue May 06, 2008 4:57 am

Can someone illuminate the rest of us as to what you find so distasteful with the proposal? Why is it moving us in the wrong direction? What would you propose?

Media · Post by **Media** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:45 am

Read the Youth Hockey forum every answer you ask for is there

rwb1351 · Post by **rwb1351** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:11 am

I'd post in the youth forum but they all seem very one sided and not open for discussion.

Now i understand most of the pros and cons of this... but aren't we forgetting what should be the number one deciding factor... the kids. If the kids have been polled (granted i don't know how in-depth this study/survey went) and say they want to play there, shouldn't that be answer enough aslong as it's within the realm of possibilities for the program to put together. A lot of this angry parents need to relax and take their own feelings out of this.

hockeya1a · Post by **hockeya1a** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:39 am

rwb1351 wrote:I'd post in the youth forum but they all seem very one sided and not open for discussion.

Now i understand most of the pros and cons of this... but aren't we forgetting what should be the number one deciding factor... the kids. If the kids have been polled (granted i don't know how in-depth this study/survey went) and say they want to play there, shouldn't that be answer enough aslong as it's within the realm of possibilities for the program to put together. A lot of this angry parents need to relax and take their own feelings out of this.

On the other side of the coin, I do believe that the kids from up north also love coming into the cities, lots of things to do in the cities.
I know my kid does not care where she plays as long as she plays!

Central · Post by **Central** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:43 pm

Here are two very basic concerns:
Cost. The Xcel center is expensive look at the price they charge and then add the surcharge per head for the MSHSL tournaments. Who is going to pay for that and for how long? No matter how it is presented…Parents are going to be ultimately responsible for the additional monies for the X, the parking, the more expensive hotel rooms, food and list, etc.

Atmosphere. Bigger simply does not mean better. Sure, kids will say they want to play in the X. Who when asked is not going to say yeah, I want to play in the X, where the Wild plays. This does not automatically mean this is what is best for the players and the future of youth hockey. Some of the things that the players I know talk about are some of the adventures and memories they have playing in the tradition rich arenas around the state of Minnesota.

It will be interesting to see how this moves forward.

keepitreal · Post by **keepitreal** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:52 pm

With all the seeming importance from MN Hockey on maintaining representation by strict geographic methods, and some shady polling methods to gauge "support", this smells duplicitous.

pondhockey · Post by **pondhockey** » Tue May 06, 2008 10:44 pm

At that age, kids don't always know what is best for them. How many would say they want cake for dinner if asked?

One of the arguments was that they would have an opportunity to play at the Excel in case they never make it at the high school level. Doesn't that take away from the true privilege of earning it at the high school level?

Kids these days (jeez I sound like grandpa) are handed things on a silver platter at younger and younger ages. What do they have to look forward to if they play at the best arena in the state at such a young age?

Yes, it is fun for us outstate families to take trips to the cities. Isn't it just as fun for the metro families to get out of the cities and come up north? All of Minnesota has something to offer all seasons of the year. To say that the tournament should always be played in the metro area is just pompous, short-sighted and narrow minded.

twowayplay · Post by **twowayplay** » Wed May 07, 2008 8:03 am

I like the idea of one site for all as long as it is in a place that has enough hotel space etc..., but do not agree that it should be soley at the Excel. Excel should be one of the venues. I am from the metro and like to travel to other places for tourneys. I believe most kids do too.

Yes it is about the kids ultimatley but let's face it, Parents are as much a part of the MN Youth hockey experience as anyone. Most have put in very long hours volunteering, driving and being a fan of the game. Fans need to count too. Went to the Bantam A State Tourney at Breamar and the atmosphere was fantastic. Put that same crowd into Excel, yuk! This decision does not take into account neither the Parents nor the Fans.

This is just another short sited decision by MN Hockey, IMO.

P.S. Eliminate the HEP point!

hockeya1a · Post by **hockeya1a** » Wed May 07, 2008 9:44 am

Here are a couple scenarios of why it is smart to have games in the metro area
This is based on the teams this past year at state at the u14a level
If you were to play with in the metro with the same 8 teams that played at the state. You would use approximately 1227 gallons of fuel to bring the 8 teams to the metro and then back home.
If those same teams were to play in Warroad those same 8 teams would use approximately 3452 gal of gas to play is the same state tournament just in a different place.

mpls team usage Gal used warroad miles Gal used Miles Gal used
roseau 864 39.27 130 88.6
No. Metro 20 0.91 862 587.7
Chaska 40 1.82 862 587.7
centennial 20 0.91 850 579.5
buffalo 82 3.73 640 436.4
NSP 10 0.45 850 579.5
Edina 30 1.36 860 586.4
warroad 734 33.36 10 6.8
ttl miles 1,800.0 1227.3 5,064.0 3452.73
Gal used based on 22mpg 81.82 1227.3 230.2 3452.73
Cost in gas ttl
to mpls 4,246.36
then to Warroad 11,946.44

Now I am not saying it should be at the Excel, and I personally don’t think it should!
But as far as what is right for us as Americans and cutting back on fuel usage it is more economical to have it here in the cities based on fuel usage.
I do believe that they could add a small fee to all teams in Minnesota to be used to offset travel expenses for the teams that do have to travel.

GR3343 · Post by **GR3343** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:06 am

hockeya1a wrote:Here are a couple scenarios of why it is smart to have games in the metro area
This is based on the teams this past year at state at the u14a level
If you were to play with in the metro with the same 8 teams that played at the state. You would use approximately 1227 gallons of fuel to bring the 8 teams to the metro and then back home.
If those same teams were to play in Warroad those same 8 teams would use approximately 3452 gal of gas to play is the same state tournament just in a different place.

mpls team usage Gal used warroad miles Gal used Miles Gal used
roseau 864 39.27 130 88.6
No. Metro 20 0.91 862 587.7
Chaska 40 1.82 862 587.7
centennial 20 0.91 850 579.5
buffalo 82 3.73 640 436.4
NSP 10 0.45 850 579.5
Edina 30 1.36 860 586.4
warroad 734 33.36 10 6.8
ttl miles 1,800.0 1227.3 5,064.0 3452.73
Gal used based on 22mpg 81.82 1227.3 230.2 3452.73
Cost in gas ttl
to mpls 4,246.36
then to Warroad 11,946.44

Now I am not saying it should be at the Excel, and I personally don’t think it should!
But as far as what is right for us as Americans and cutting back on fuel usage it is more economical to have it here in the cities based on fuel usage.
I do believe that they could add a small fee to all teams in Minnesota to be used to offset travel expenses for the teams that do have to travel.

Economical for people that live close to or in the metro area. Not so economical for the people from Roseau, Warroad, Grand Rapids, etc...Throw in the cost of lodging and meals for the outstate folks and it's a little ridiculous. Then throw in the competitive advantage for many of the players in the metro area to sleep in their own beds and eat at home. It may not seem like much, but staying at a hotel and eating many meals out isn't as conducive as getting proper rest in your own bed. Many more disadvantages for the outstate if this is placed at the X on a permanent basis.

hockeya1a · Post by **hockeya1a** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:24 am

GR3343 wrote:
hockeya1a wrote:Here are a couple scenarios of why it is smart to have games in the metro area
This is based on the teams this past year at state at the u14a level
If you were to play with in the metro with the same 8 teams that played at the state. You would use approximately 1227 gallons of fuel to bring the 8 teams to the metro and then back home.
If those same teams were to play in Warroad those same 8 teams would use approximately 3452 gal of gas to play is the same state tournament just in a different place.

mpls team usage Gal used warroad miles Gal used Miles Gal used
roseau 864 39.27 130 88.6
No. Metro 20 0.91 862 587.7
Chaska 40 1.82 862 587.7
centennial 20 0.91 850 579.5
buffalo 82 3.73 640 436.4
NSP 10 0.45 850 579.5
Edina 30 1.36 860 586.4
warroad 734 33.36 10 6.8
ttl miles 1,800.0 1227.3 5,064.0 3452.73
Gal used based on 22mpg 81.82 1227.3 230.2 3452.73
Cost in gas ttl
to mpls 4,246.36
then to Warroad 11,946.44

Now I am not saying it should be at the Excel, and I personally don’t think it should!
But as far as what is right for us as Americans and cutting back on fuel usage it is more economical to have it here in the cities based on fuel usage.
I do believe that they could add a small fee to all teams in Minnesota to be used to offset travel expenses for the teams that do have to travel.

Economical for people that live close to or in the metro area. Not so economical for the people from Roseau, Warroad, Grand Rapids, etc...Throw in the cost of lodging and meals for the outstate folks and it's a little ridiculous. Then throw in the competitive advantage for many of the players in the metro area to sleep in their own beds and eat at home. It may not seem like much, but staying at a hotel and eating many meals out isn't as conducive as getting proper rest in your own bed. Many more disadvantages for the outstate if this is placed at the X on a permanent basis.

Again, I do not believe it should be at the Excel.
But if only 2 of the 8 teams have to travel it is more fair for the Majority to not have to travel!

Also I suggested that there be a way to help offset the cost for the teams that have to travel,

And if it were to be up north then there would be 6 teams that have to be in motels not 2.
and then the 6 teams would all have more costs not just 2 So no matter how you look at it some one is going to be put out!
as far as getting rest I know that our coach told the girls lights out at a certain time based on when they had to play the next day, and believe me they did not have any problems winning tournaments on the road.

hockeya1a · Post by **hockeya1a** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:39 am

GR3343 wrote
[/quote] Then throw in the competitive advantage for many of the players in the metro area to sleep in their own beds and eat at home. It may not seem like much, but staying at a hotel and eating many meals out isn't as conducive as getting proper rest in your own bed. Many more disadvantages for the outstate if this is placed at the X on a permanent basis.[/quote]

Now as far as this part of your statement here is how 2008 paned out

U14A played in Moorhead
Winning teams 1st place NSP
2nd place Centenial
3rd Warroad

U12 A played in Duluth

1st place Shakopee
2nd Place Minnetonka
3rd place Lakeville

Now it appears to me that the teams that traveled all did quite well!
Drop that excuse!

GR3343 · Post by **GR3343** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:39 am

hockeya1a wrote:GR3343 wrote

Then throw in the competitive advantage for many of the players in the metro area to sleep in their own beds and eat at home. It may not seem like much, but staying at a hotel and eating many meals out isn't as conducive as getting proper rest in your own bed. Many more disadvantages for the outstate if this is placed at the X on a permanent basis.[/quote]

Now as far as this part of your statement here is how 2008 paned out

U14A played in Moorhead
Winning teams 1st place NSP
2nd place Centenial
3rd Warroad

U12 A played in Duluth

1st place Shakopee
2nd Place Minnetonka
3rd place Lakeville

Now it appears to me that the teams that traveled all did quite well!
Drop that excuse!

[/quote]

Wasn't an excuse, just an analagy and opinion. Sorry you think it's ok to put any of the teams from the north out while the super 6 from the metro area should be taken care of. As it stands now, any team from the north, unless they host, has the biggest amount of travel year in and year out. To never have the opportunity to host an event is what's wrong with this proposal.

hockeya1a · Post by **hockeya1a** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:32 pm

[quote="GR3343"

Wasn't an excuse, just an analagy and opinion. Sorry you think it's ok to put any of the teams from the north out while the super 6 from the metro area should be taken care of. As it stands now, any team from the north, unless they host, has the biggest amount of travel year in and year out. To never have the opportunity to host an event is what's wrong with this proposal.[/quote]

No matter where the tournament is held some one will be put out! and even in the metro most teams have to travel be it be 10 minutes to 1 hr or more.
I am looking at it from the standpoint it is a huge waste of fuel to send so everyone else, weather it be, up north or down south you have to remember there are teams in the lower part of the state also that have to travel alot.
I have to believe we have all complained about fuel prices.
That being said, IF they are to host it only in the metro and I hope it is not the Excel.
it does need to be in a location that is user friendly and I think that there should be a mandatory user fee attached to every team at the beginning of the year. like $25 - $50 that would go to help offset the cost of travel. If there are lets say 150 teams at any given A level they could generate about $3,750 to $7,500 per level for use in travel expenses to be given to the teams that have to travel.

rinkrat90 · Post by **rinkrat90** » Wed May 07, 2008 2:56 pm

Playing the youth tourneys at the X is just one more example of how overblown and out of proportion things seem to be these days. Not just in hockey. Any parent who happens to have a senior graduating this year will be exposed to the ridiculously extravagant open-houses. And don't forget about the time, energy, and expenses that go into the senior lock-in.

Getting back to hockey, the thing that players remember most is the friends they made while playing the sport. They remember the stuff in the locker room, on the bus, and many behind the scenes stuff that happens during the course of a season.

Venues are so overrated. It is really ironic when there seems to be a yearning for the good old days of pond-hockey and outdoor hockey that the youth hockey tournaments would be played at the X.

I would vote for rotating sites. Metro, central and northern sites. And not including the X.

Central · Post by **Central** » Wed May 07, 2008 4:46 pm

rinkrat90 wrote:Playing the youth tourneys at the X is just one more example of how overblown and out of proportion things seem to be these days..........

Fully agree with you here! As someone else said I am having flashbacks to comments that I have heard my parents (and even grandparents when they were living) say. I am getting OLD!

chickendance · Post by **chickendance** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:14 pm

I have read through the long paper on why the board felt they should do this. I have only found two reasons provided.

1. They want to give my kid a once in a lifetime experience for the true champion he is.
2. They want to capitalize on a marketing potential.

I for one am truly moved by their concern for providing my kid a once in a lifetime experience. Takes all that responsibility off of me. Thank's guys...I can go fishing now.

I would love to see the presentation information on the how much they can gain in net revenue from this approach. My guess is we will see all of our fees go down, better programs, a rink on every corner, free equipment and a chicken in every pot.

How can this be a bad idea? I think there will be a stampede for those coveted "allied association" spots.

rinkrat90 · Post by **rinkrat90** » Thu May 08, 2008 12:23 am

Chicken, I think you have it pretty much dead on correct. Thanks for the excellent synopsis.

Media · Post by **Media** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:14 am

For those of us who have been around a while I believe this is a legitimate question. Lets look at it as then and now and ask are they all positive changes. As I write this I understand there are exceptions.

As it was As it is
Games played outside * A special Television event
Practices outside * Rare if ever
Additional outside ice * If the internet is down or gameboy is broke
I want to play for my highschool * I will if its in my best interest!
Wow we get to take a bus ! * Do we have to travel again ?
I hope I make the Allstar team *I dont know who im playing for this year
IM going to Selects * Well Im going to the Superseries
I have to work to get better * My coach sucks its his fault
half hour of Homework 3 hours of home work
I got a new stick for $10.00 got a deal on this one $99.99
Well its Spring, Softballs here * Are you going to Phase 1?
They have ice in the summer? * Which rink is that at?
Meet you in the warming shack * Which Locker room are we in?
I got a pair of Tacks * I special ordered a blue bottom skate
The toes are soft on these skates * everyone else has (pickone)
My dad thanked the coach * My dad told the coach where I should play
I made you a lunch for the rink * Heres $10 buy a hotdog !
Do you believe in Mirracles * a medal of participation for all !
Were Going to STATE as PEEWEES!*I deserve to play at the EXCELL!!!

HMM whats next ???? What is special anymore ?

hockeya1a · Post by **hockeya1a** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:31 am

Media wrote:For those of us who have been around a while I believe this is a legitimate question. Lets look at it as then and now and ask are they all positive changes. As I write this I understand there are exceptions.

As it was As it is
Games played outside * A special Television event
Practices outside * Rare if ever
Additional outside ice * If the internet is down or gameboy is broke
I want to play for my highschool * I will if its in my best interest!
Wow we get to take a bus ! * Do we have to travel again ?
I hope I make the Allstar team *I dont know who im playing for this year
IM going to Selects * Well Im going to the Superseries
I have to work to get better * My coach sucks its his fault
half hour of Homework 3 hours of home work
I got a new stick for $10.00 got a deal on this one $99.99
Well its Spring, Softballs here * Are you going to Phase 1?
They have ice in the summer? * Which rink is that at?
Meet you in the warming shack * Which Locker room are we in?
I got a pair of Tacks * I special ordered a blue bottom skate
The toes are soft on these skates * everyone else has (pickone)
My dad thanked the coach * My dad told the coach where I should play
I made you a lunch for the rink * Heres $10 buy a hotdog !
Do you believe in Mirracles * a medal of participation for all !
Were Going to STATE as PEEWEES!*I deserve to play at the EXCELL!!!

HMM whats next ???? What is special anymore ?

How true! one day these too will be the good ole days

if we can afford it anymore.

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:46 am

Media:

IM going to Selects * Well Im going to the Superseries

I know a total of 5 "select" tournaments out there now. A kid has a possibility of playing in 4 of them (2 overlap). Sane parents have limited their kids to pick 1 of these (I like to think I'm sane) as a fun weekend, which is really nice. Insane parents insist on making (letting) their kids play in every one that they are invited to. You're absolutely right, there's nothing special about them. And the hockey is not as good as a AAA game.

titleist · Post by **titleist** » Thu May 08, 2008 2:40 pm

GR3343 wrote:
hockeya1a wrote:Here are a couple scenarios of why it is smart to have games in the metro area
This is based on the teams this past year at state at the u14a level
If you were to play with in the metro with the same 8 teams that played at the state. You would use approximately 1227 gallons of fuel to bring the 8 teams to the metro and then back home.
If those same teams were to play in Warroad those same 8 teams would use approximately 3452 gal of gas to play is the same state tournament just in a different place.

mpls team usage Gal used warroad miles Gal used Miles Gal used
roseau 864 39.27 130 88.6
No. Metro 20 0.91 862 587.7
Chaska 40 1.82 862 587.7
centennial 20 0.91 850 579.5
buffalo 82 3.73 640 436.4
NSP 10 0.45 850 579.5
Edina 30 1.36 860 586.4
warroad 734 33.36 10 6.8
ttl miles 1,800.0 1227.3 5,064.0 3452.73
Gal used based on 22mpg 81.82 1227.3 230.2 3452.73
Cost in gas ttl
to mpls 4,246.36
then to Warroad 11,946.44

Now I am not saying it should be at the Excel, and I personally don’t think it should!
But as far as what is right for us as Americans and cutting back on fuel usage it is more economical to have it here in the cities based on fuel usage.
I do believe that they could add a small fee to all teams in Minnesota to be used to offset travel expenses for the teams that do have to travel.

Economical for people that live close to or in the metro area. Not so economical for the people from Roseau, Warroad, Grand Rapids, etc...Throw in the cost of lodging and meals for the outstate folks and it's a little ridiculous. Then throw in the competitive advantage for many of the players in the metro area to sleep in their own beds and eat at home. It may not seem like much, but staying at a hotel and eating many meals out isn't as conducive as getting proper rest in your own bed. Many more disadvantages for the outstate if this is placed at the X on a permanent basis.

But, what if the tournament was held in Austin? Wouldn't you and all the Northern teams be happier if it were in the cities then? Just being devils advocate here. No matter where the venue, someone is going to be put out. I also agree that the Xcel is too big, how about Mariucci and Ridder?

jumpstart · Post by **jumpstart** » Thu May 08, 2008 3:40 pm

I haven't read up on this and don't know all of the details, but I can comment that my daughter had the privilege of playing in two U12 state tournaments and one U14 state tournament, all of them being in different venues: Richfield, Warroad and Minnetonka. I personally like having different venues. I believe it gives kids a chance to play in other arenas and to travel if it is somewhere other than near the home town. It gives communities around Minnesota the opportunity to host tournaments and showcase their arenas, programs and towns. At least for the smaller towns, it probably also brings in some revenue.

I have to say that the best crowd was at Richfield -- the place was packed for the U12 championship game. Minnetonka had a fair number of people, but I think mostly family and friends. In Warroad, the only people left for the championship game were the parents of the two teams, Henry Boucha, the rink manager, and a handful of other locals. Now, when I say "packed" at Richfield, that same crowd would not fill much of the Xcel Center.

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OUT State A State tournament no more

OUT State A State tournament no more

What is special any more in hockey ??????

Re: What is special any more in hockey ??????