Select 15s or 93's

[finance_gal]

Your absolutly correct about inner drive and motivation, but what good does it do to shoot pucks if no one has ever told your kid how to shift her weight as she shoots or to work on one timers? How many times does a kid have to ask how to get faster until the coach helps her with drills or tells her where to go? These things are a coaches job.

Because my husband is losing his hearing, I had to take over alot of the family hockey duties the last couple years and I am absolutly appalled by what I have seen not just in our program but in other programs too. I have seen kids ask what they need to do to play more and the coach says "get better" I have seen coaches tell their teams they don't need any outside training because they can give them any training they need, I have seen one high school coach that had no clue at all what total hockey even was. I seen another coach who after a girl broke her collarbone in a game kicked her out of the program in an e-mail because he didn't have the balls to tell her face to face....these things all happened and have been personally witnessed by me and these coaches don't need some sort of elite training?

How many people have seen a high school coach screaming all game at the refs or yelling at a kid in front of a group players or parents...I see it a couple times a month. Those coaches don't need some type of training (maybe anger management)? I seen a coach yelling at a 9th grade kid in the entry way of an arena after tryouts screaming at her she will never play for him ever no matter what (that coach was fired) no special training is needed? Yes these are horror stories but they are the reasons that I insist coaching must improve before the girls game takes huge steps.

[Betty 99]

I think you are throwing too big of a blanket over the coaches. Are there bad coaches? You bet. But I bet you could find just as many "good coaching" stories as the bad ones you listed. There are always bad whatever in any profession; doctors, lawyers, electricians, teachers and so forth. But to say that they are all bad because of the sins of a few is pretty small-minded.

By the way, what is your background in coaching? You seem to sure know a lot about coaching.

[joehockey]

Your absolutly correct about inner drive and motivation, but what good does it do to shoot pucks if no one has ever told your kid how to shift her weight as she shoots or to work on one timers? How many times does a kid have to ask how to get faster until the coach helps her with drills or tells her where to go? These things are a coaches job.

Because my husband is losing his hearing, I had to take over alot of the family hockey duties the last couple years and I am absolutly appalled by what I have seen not just in our program but in other programs too. I have seen kids ask what they need to do to play more and the coach says "get better" I have seen coaches tell their teams they don't need any outside training because they can give them any training they need, I have seen one high school coach that had no clue at all what total hockey even was. I seen another coach who after a girl broke her collarbone in a game kicked her out of the program in an e-mail because he didn't have the balls to tell her face to face....these things all happened and have been personally witnessed by me and these coaches don't need some sort of elite training?

How many people have seen a high school coach screaming all game at the refs or yelling at a kid in front of a group players or parents...I see it a couple times a month. Those coaches don't need some type of training (maybe anger management)? I seen a coach yelling at a 9th grade kid in the entry way of an arena after tryouts screaming at her she will never play for him ever no matter what (that coach was fired) no special training is needed? Yes these are horror stories but they are the reasons that I insist coaching must improve before the girls game takes huge steps.

Wow I am surprised you would stay in game or have your daughter playing based on the war stories you share?

For three HS seasons my daughter has played in the SE (2) and SC (1) on the Eastside I have not seen any of what you are talking about. Players who are only playing HS hockey are limited to what the coach can do.

If a players wants to get better there are numerous programs CODP, OS.....other school STP and other camps. As parents if we set our kids up to be limited and victims to their enviornment we are sending the wrong message. HS coaches are paid very little they do what they do because they want to help the girls in their program....sure there are great, good and poor coaches - you find that in posters on this board and in all professions in life. If our daughters have drive I hope we feed the passion not blame their coaches.

[chickendance]

Good coaches don't need to be defended...bad coaches don't need to be defended either.

[dochockey]

Hey I met Fin Gal down at Shattuck for the showcase this spring. Her daughter is going to be a real player, I think she rang up a couple goals and a handful of assists. Her and the daughter show up at everything hockey. Fin Gals problem is that she has seen some very good coaching between Marci with CODP, The people at Shattuck and every other clinic that rolls through town. Next to them the school coaches she sees are a step down from these professional coaches. As for the husband, he comes off as being grumpy as all he--. I found out it's because he can't hear anything where there's any background noise so the daughter or wife are always translating for him. If you get him where he can hear, he's a very nice guy but he tells me the coaches punished his daughter because he didn't communicate with them or go to team functions. With that perspective, I hope that this makes Fin Gals position clearer.

[finance_gal]

Hey I met Fin Gal down at Shattuck for the showcase this spring. Her daughter is going to be a real player, I think she rang up a couple goals and a handful of assists. Her and the daughter show up at everything hockey. Fin Gals problem is that she has seen some very good coaching between Marci with CODP, The people at Shattuck and every other clinic that rolls through town. Next to them the school coaches she sees are a step down from these professional coaches. As for the husband, he comes off as being grumpy as all he--. I found out it's because he can't hear anything where there's any background noise so the daughter or wife are always translating for him. If you get him where he can hear, he's a very nice guy but he tells me the coaches punished his daughter because he didn't communicate with them or go to team functions. With that perspective, I hope that this makes Fin Gals position clearer.

What can I say......Once I seen the best in coaching it's hard to settle for mediocore.... and my husband just dosen't talk, he's not grumpy!!!

[titleist]

Fin Gal, I'm torn after reading your blogs. I give your head coach more leaniancy because of his situation. That being a first year coach and especially coaching at a private school with all of this non-transfer stuff going on. HM used to be the best at recruiting kids/hockey players. Now with bylaws as they are, it's tougher to build a program. I've coached at a private HS before, it's not easy. There are alot of expectations from parents. One year they're thrilled to have you and the next, you're on the chopping block because you lost to so and so school. I find it very hard to believe your daughters coach wouldn't help your daughter with one timers if she asked. Where I coach now, we have chronically bad shooters, but our players rarely ask us for help. Most of the time we just jump in, whether they want it or not, but we work alot on shooting. Luckily our program is blessed with good skaters so we can allot a lot of time for shooting. Perhaps your coach doesn't see your overall team at that level where he just lets them have free time during practice to let them work on skills like one timers. I don't know. These past couple of seasons, I've been fortunate enough to have had a couple of kids go D-1. After watching them everyday in practice, I can see as a coach, they have the inner drive to motivate themselves. They didn't need me to tell them to work on things. They knew their deficiencies and they worked on them every chance they got, during and after practices. Would they ask us for advice and some drill thoughts, absolutely. Would they ask us for help if what they were trying wasn't working, absolutely. Like another post read, We don't do this for the money. If we did, it might be the worst financial solution ever. For the time I put in vs. the money I get out, I might make 50 cents an hour. We want nothing more than the kids to have the best experience playing the best game around; in hopes of creating lifetime fans of the game and hopefully sharing it with their children someday. I know you can't please every kid or every parent, it's just not possible. But hopefully you can please a few.

[finance_gal]

It's not even about our own situation, it's about girls hockey as a whole, our situation is getting better but I see so many teams that will forever be the dredges of the conference and it dosent' have to be that way...I learned long ago not to comment much on our own situation so I rarely do, someone else brought it up about meeting us somewhere so I felt compelled to comment today. but for the most part I keep my comments to the sport in general and what I see out there are a few powerhouses and alot of teams that no body cares about that are obviously just there to fill a spot in a schedule. It's just sad because those coaches could really use some training.

[titleist]

luckily we don't run into that in our conference. Every night is a battle, with some nights worse that others.....wait a minute, is that lucky??

[finance_gal]

luckily we don't run into that in our conference. Every night is a battle, with some nights worse that others.....wait a minute, is that lucky??

those tough games will pay dividends for all the teams involved. If a kids going to quit on you, you want it to be during one of those games or in practice rather than in tough playoff game. That's why teams with great records and soft schedules never seem to go far into the playoffs because the kids can't handle the pressure...

[Knight7]

I think the best training for the coaches that go 20-5, play 2 lines and have a relatively soft schedule, is that the get what they deserve. That would be a one and out in the Sections.
Then they can explain to their parents and players why they lost again to a 14-11 team a couple years in a row because they didn't have (Develop) a 3rd line.
I don't agree with a lot of what fin-gal is saying, but I do understand the concept of her last statement. Many coaches don't have elite players or a strong team or a strong youth program. I think you put to much on the coaches that work their butts off for little reward.
There are though some programs out there that play to win every game, with the down side off not developing a 3rd line. It is pay me now or pay me later. See some of the teams that were SUPRISED at the sections.

[hockeyheaven]

I think Titleist is on to something. The best coaches (regardless of technical knowledge or skill) are regarded as such because they are generally the ones that are in it for the right reason(s).
What makes a good coach? IMO
-They have to be passionate and have a genuine love for what they are doing.
-They unconditionally put the player’s needs ahead of all others (most importantly their own).
-They recognize that this is a team game and one individual is no more important then the other. (Or you are only as strong as your weakest player)
-They understand that the “pursuit of excellence” should be the true guiding principle, not wins and loses.

[finance_gal]

I think Titleist is on to something. The best coaches (regardless of technical knowledge or skill) are regarded as such because they are generally the ones that are in it for the right reason(s).
What makes a good coach? IMO
-They have to be passionate and have a genuine love for what they are doing.
-They unconditionally put the player’s needs ahead of all others (most importantly their own).
-They recognize that this is a team game and one individual is no more important then the other. (Or you are only as strong as your weakest player)
-They understand that the “pursuit of excellence” should be the true guiding principle, not wins and loses.

BEST DESCRIPTION OF A GOOD COACH YET!!! HOW MANY CAN HONESTLY SAY THESE THINGS ABOUT THEMSELVES?

[MNHockeyFan]

I think Titleist is on to something. The best coaches (regardless of technical knowledge or skill) are regarded as such because they are generally the ones that are in it for the right reason(s).
What makes a good coach? IMO
-They have to be passionate and have a genuine love for what they are doing.
-They unconditionally put the player’s needs ahead of all others (most importantly their own).
-They recognize that this is a team game and one individual is no more important then the other. (Or you are only as strong as your weakest player)
-They understand that the “pursuit of excellence” should be the true guiding principle, not wins and loses.

All very true but I wonder how many parents are able to recognize and fully appreciate these attributes? Unfortunately, you see too many who are almost totally focused just on their own kid - how much and with whom they play, and their stats. They figure if their own is getting maximum icetime and points and the team is winning, the coach must be good. With this outlook team development and individual character development take a back seat.

Quite honestly, some teams have so few numbers and such little talent compared to their opposition that the best coach in the State would not be able to achieve a winning record. But his or her team WOULD show measurable improvement as the season progressed and the players would play as a team and be supportive of each other, no matter what the scoreboard showed. Getting the parents to go along is the hard part IMO.

[joehockey]

I think Titleist is on to something. The best coaches (regardless of technical knowledge or skill) are regarded as such because they are generally the ones that are in it for the right reason(s).
What makes a good coach? IMO
-They have to be passionate and have a genuine love for what they are doing.
-They unconditionally put the player’s needs ahead of all others (most importantly their own).
-They recognize that this is a team game and one individual is no more important then the other. (Or you are only as strong as your weakest player)
-They understand that the “pursuit of excellence” should be the true guiding principle, not wins and loses.

Good stuff and it reflects the HM staff. As a new parent to Hill Murray last year I was very impressed with Head Coach Schafhauser and his staff (5) they developed players at both the varsity and jv program. The varsity had a tremendous on ice and off ice practice plan. The team went undefeated in a weak conference and played a tough non conference schedule. They had Karyn Bye, Wes Waltz and special skating instruction during different practices - they worked hard at development of all players. If you know the two JV coaches you wouldn't find two more committed. This is a coaching staff that cares greatly.

I don't know Finance Gal. Maybe she doesn't know Schafhauser played at HM, was a D1 All American Played 12 years of pro hockey, has been a great youth coach and a great JV head coach for the boys at HM. He is also a scout for the Colorado Avalanche - he knows talent and he is good at attracting and devoloping talent - I can't imagine a better HS coach for my daughter. I can't name many coaches who dress and play four lines at varsity and does a pretty straight rotation of lines 1-3 and 6 D and plays line 4 more than any program I know - opportunity there is more at HM than other HS schools I know of.

I know only one player who left the HM program mid year after an injury - the facts - she has only skated since 8th grade or (maybe 7th?) - started hockey on HM JV and was still there when she left team mid year vowing to all to never return to HM hockey and to play for the local u19AAA team next year. She was wished good luck by all. Personable, nice kid and very nice parents hockey is a very tough game to excel in, in the HM program with +30 kids who have played a lot prior to HM to expect to skate on a very good varsity team in only your third year of hockey might be an over expectation. This player continues to work very hard and I admire her and believe she can play the game and wish her well as do others. Take a poll of the parents inovled at HM and you will not get the sour grapes that is being posted here by someone who may not still be in program by their declaration.

Not sure if Finance Gal will have a girl in the HM program but wish her well in hockey and hope she finds happiness for her player and family.

[finance_gal]

I was geeting a little defensive

[Whatthe]

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, they all used the same type of tactics.

JoeHockey, if these are the current and former HM assistant and JV coaches I would get out. I've heard they never went through elite coaches training.

[Media]

Iraq lost a similar coach recently not sure where he's hanging around these day

[donomuch]

I was relieved to see that the 'dictator, mass murderer' post was self edited. I am not from the east side or HM or a coach, and I don't often post, but I have read the posts and I see: A daughter that started late. parent and daughter doing everything, to constantly improve. Tenacity in parent an understatement. Sour grapes that daughter didnt make HM varsity. Badmouthing the coaches that everyone else on the posts say are excellent. Taking incidences, coaches statements, out of context to be shown in the worst light, only one side of the situation. I hope this person will step back, move on and get a new (additional)focus besides hockey.

[finance_gal]

Hey I met Fin Gal down at Shattuck for the showcase this spring. Her daughter is going to be a real player, I think she rang up a couple goals and a handful of assists. Her and the daughter show up at everything hockey. Fin Gals problem is that she has seen some very good coaching between Marci with CODP, The people at Shattuck and every other clinic that rolls through town. Next to them the school coaches she sees are a step down from these professional coaches. .

I think this post answers your question about my daughter.

[finance_gal]

I didn't mean to start people piling on coaches or parents. All I meant to say was I would rather see elite training going to the coaches because there's a perception out there (I feel rightfully so) that girls coaching isn't very good in alot of places and if people want to more elite players they should get more programs with elite coaching because nobody gets better in these 8 to 1 games and there are still far to many games like these.

If memory serves correct you were pretty excited about your new coach at your private school. He seems to be a pretty good coach, why has your excitement changed regarding him?

The head coach at our school seems ok, not the best communicator, I'm talking in general among all the schools I seen this year, it seems that too many teams are staying the same and the coaching has to improve before the teams can improve. As far as our Head coach, he knows his hockey but not so good with people. The team will improve under him but won't improve much until the competition gets better. they need more big games on their schedule

And here is what I said about HM coach....I say what I see and hear, I feel this is an honest assesment of our coach, Ok I'm getting a little bit defensive again.... I just don't get where donomuch is coming from because I don't think I had ever met him....oh well we all just make asumptions i guess

[titleist]

I think Titleist is on to something. The best coaches (regardless of technical knowledge or skill) are regarded as such because they are generally the ones that are in it for the right reason(s).
What makes a good coach? IMO
-They have to be passionate and have a genuine love for what they are doing.
-They unconditionally put the player’s needs ahead of all others (most importantly their own).
-They recognize that this is a team game and one individual is no more important then the other. (Or you are only as strong as your weakest player)
-They understand that the “pursuit of excellence” should be the true guiding principle, not wins and loses.

All very true but I wonder how many parents are able to recognize and fully appreciate these attributes? Unfortunately, you see too many who are almost totally focused just on their own kid - how much and with whom they play, and their stats. They figure if their own is getting maximum icetime and points and the team is winning, the coach must be good. With this outlook team development and individual character development take a back seat.

Quite honestly, some teams have so few numbers and such little talent compared to their opposition that the best coach in the State would not be able to achieve a winning record. But his or her team WOULD show measurable improvement as the season progressed and the players would play as a team and be supportive of each other, no matter what the scoreboard showed. Getting the parents to go along is the hard part IMO.

I think you're underestimating this a bit, Getting the parents to go along with this concept is impossible, especially if the team continually looses 15 games in a twenty five game schedule, AND, you coach at a private school....totally unacceptable!

[keepitreal]

I say what I see and hear

As a fellow hockey parent, and also one who has sent a kid off to college, I'm going to offer some unsolicited advice to parents coming into their HS program that you can take or leave. When it comes to high school sports and high school coaches, we all have to swallow our tongue sometimes-- especially those parents who have been on both sides of the arena. If you want to try and cut the legs out from under the head coach of your team, he would be an admirable person indeed to not harbor a grudge against your kid, and if he does you should not be shocked. Even if you only criticize privately, I guarantee your negativity will permeate the attitude of your daughter, and it will manifest itself in the locker room and on the ice in ways she won't even realize. Performance, achievement, state titles, a varsity letter, wins, losses--even improvement-- none of these things matter really compared to a love for playing the game and the experience she shares with the other girls on the team. Don't poison HER well by meddling.

Now, there are players who find themselves on teams or with coaches who might not maximize their elite potential. In this case, Thoroughbreds might be something to look into when eligible. Or, if so inclined, Shattuck, Culver or NSA.

The bottom line is when an athlete reaches the high school level, it's time for them to make their own way with their teammates and coaches, through good or bad, with as little interference as possible by parents. How else will they learn to be an adult? While it's very, very painful sometimes to watch your child deal with frustration and disappointment, your best gift to them will be to remain supportive, resist criticizing, and help them understand that life as they perceive it isn't always fair.

[tmobil]

Keepitreel

Bravo

[dochockey]

I don't post often but I seen a lynch mob forming. You guys should quit picking on Fin Gal, When I first seen her post something, The Hill Murray coach was bragging how he was just playing 2 lines with his posting on this board which I thought was very tacky for a coach to do http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... ht=#312414 It turned out the Coach was using this board to taunt the kid so I PM'ed fin gal, then because both of our girls were going to the Shattuck Showcase, I met her and her daughter and I have seen nothing but class from this lady and her family which is more than I can say for her coach.

I don't know JoeHockey but he sounds like another coach from the same team to me who is standing up feverishly for someone who used his posting here to trash his 3rd line. As for Fin Gal, she's quite fiery but I noticed she doesn't mention any kids names coaches names or school names in her postings.

As for her daughter, she is a very good player, has been invited to many elite camps and has shown herself be a real player not just to me but to plenty of unbiased coaches. Currently she is skating with the Thoroughbreds spring team and could make 95% of the varsity teams in this state. I don't know how long she's been playing but to insuate her skill level has anything to do with how long she's been playing is an insult to everyone who ever even tried to play hockey.

You people should listen to some of these people that have a different opinion than the majority because those people are the voice of change on the horizon and like it or not Fin Gal sees the deficiencies in women’s hockey coaching that so many of you are in denial about.