Midget AAA or High School Hockey

edinalover1 · Post by **edinalover1** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:57 am

I've always wondered which would be better the play. Midgets or High School. I know Midget AAA is pretty popular in other states and Canada and High School Hockey is pretty popular here in Minnesota and a couple other states.

If you to choose to play one or the other what would it be?

And is there any difference in talent levels?

How bout in Canada. Whats the talent level there?

Bash Brother · Post by **Bash Brother** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:10 am

Midget AAA is basically for the most talented high school players. If you are good enough to play for Shattuck's prep team that would probably be the way to go. However if you like the group of kids in your town play for the high school. if you are from edina simply quit hockey.

edinalover1 · Post by **edinalover1** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:11 am

Bash Brother wrote:Midget AAA is basically for the most talented high school players. If you are good enough to play for Shattuck's prep team that would probably be the way to go. However if you like the group of kids in your town play for the high school. if you are from edina simply quit hockey.

okay...but I'm not from Edina. I just love their hockey team and history.

HD1 · Post by **HD1** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:49 am

The Midwest Elite Hockey League this coming year will put to shame anything MN High School hockey has to offer, not to mention a team like Shattuck. The third line on these teams will be as good or better than MN high school first lines. Look at the breakdown in juniors (USHL, NAHL, or EJHL) and you will notice AAA U18 is where most of the players come from.

Tenoverpar · Post by **Tenoverpar** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:12 am

HD1 fails to point out though that the rosters in U18 MWEHL are littered with kids from all over the country. Heck, I know 3 94 (9th graders)players all boarding in Detroit this coming winter to play hockey in this league. The best 92 in this league last year was a kid from Arizona (moffatt). Make sure you know that while this league does in fact generate talent, it's not all home grown. Because of the league competetiveness, players move to these areas and board annually.

Think about it, live if BFE and play 5 good hockey games a year (you can imply to some/most Minnesota high school hockey if you wish) or play 70 games with at least 60 those going either way...that's why kids go there.

Either way, if you're good you can be from Honolulu and someone will find you eventually. Good point though HD, the reality is the 3rd line on these teams are going somewhere...

breakout · Post by **breakout** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:12 am

Tenoverpar wrote:HD1 fails to point out though that the rosters in U18 MWEHL are littered with kids from all over the country. Heck, I know 3 94 (9th graders)players all boarding in Detroit this coming winter to play hockey in this league. The best 92 in this league last year was a kid from Arizona (moffatt). Make sure you know that while this league does in fact generate talent, it's not all home grown. Because of the league competetiveness, players move to these areas and board annually.

Think about it, live if BFE and play 5 good hockey games a year (you can imply to some/most Minnesota high school hockey if you wish) or play 70 games with at least 60 those going either way...that's why kids go there.

Either way, if you're good you can be from Honolulu and someone will find you eventually. Good point though HD, the reality is the 3rd line on these teams are going somewhere...

13 year olds leaving home for hockey reasons? Frankly, I want to be my kids parent. Not transfer over guardianship at such a young and influential age.

You are correct, if you are good enough they will find you.

TheHockeyDJ · Post by **TheHockeyDJ** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:48 am

What about the potential reward for where you play? In MN HS hockey you get a chance to play in front of 19,000+ fans at the Xcel Energy Center. Not to mention 3,000 - 7,000 fans in most section tournaments. I don't think any other hockey league has that at this age level, not til you get to D1 college, which in MN hasn't had a crowd as big as Hill-Murray vs. Roseau last year.

Also, I watched the u18 AAA teams in the NW last spring in Anchorage from Nevada, Washinton and California, and none of them stood out as better then MN's top HS teams.

friendlyreminder · Post by **friendlyreminder** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:29 am

Yes, it's MUCH more glamorous for MN HS kids with the crowds and a chance to play at the Xcel Energy Center. Midget AAA plays 50-70 game schedules around the country and would be lucky to get other people besides there parents and scouts in stands. Overrall Midget AAA is a no brainer its overrall better than MN HS hockey but the top 10 HS teams could compete with anyone in AAA. It has much more depth than HS and that is the biggest difference.

HSHockeyFan08 · Post by **HSHockeyFan08** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:10 pm

Minnesota gets the most exposure out of any state out there. Plain and simple. If Midget hockey in other states was as good as people think, there would be more D1 players from Massachusetts or Michigan than Minnesota. Minnesota blows away any state with the amount of D1 players.

gomnhky · Post by **gomnhky** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:36 pm

This bodes for a pretty interesting discussion. Those who are HS hockey purists and believe and love the HS hockey tradition established in MN, will bristle at some of the comments made in this thread. However, I think it's pretty obvious that for those who choose the AAA/Midget option, it can be a very viable and beneficial option but also a very costly one as well. There is no comparison to the number of games consistently played against quality competition versus that which is played by the average HS hockey program. The point about team depth is also a legitimate difference as many HS programs have 1 to 1 1/2 good lines (or only 1-2 "star" players) while the AAA/Midget teams are much deeper, which is only going to provide for better and stronger game competition and better overall development at practices. I would also think that the coaching and off-ice training is consistently better overall compared to most HS programs. It is becoming quite apparent that MN HS hockey is losing its "edge" on the competition and can be seen by the numbers (or lack thereof) of MN players participating in the NTDP and USHL as compared to earlier years. This is not a bad thing for hockey as a whole as you are seeing growth in non-traditional hockey areas and other programs catching up to and possibly passing up MN. It is true that if you are good enough, you will be found, no matter where or who you play for; however, it is also true that the bar has been raised and the level of competition is becoming more challenging for all players.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:42 pm

gomnhky wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that for those who choose the AAA/Midget option, it can be a very viable and beneficial option but also a very costly one as well. There is no comparison to the number of games consistently played against quality competition versus that which is played by the average HS hockey program.

Two points:

1. Even though high schools do not play as many games, they do practice more (compared to the number of games they do play), and with a good coach have an opportunity to work on and improve their skills. Obviously if you are only one of a couple of highly skilled players on your team, this is not as beneficial and AAA/Midget may be the best move, but if you are on one of the better teams with many good players, there is plenty of opportunity to further advance your skills through well-run practices, even though you're playing fewer games.

2. Even though the high school season is shorter, most everyone plays in the off-season in various camps, tournaments and on off-season AAA teams. When you look at from this perspective, over the entire year, there is plenty of opportunity to compete against against whatever skill level you can find and are capable of playing against. This was not always the case, when MSHSL rules were much more restrictive, so if anything you're no longer giving up nearly as much (competition-wise) by choosing to stay with your high school team for just the three winter months.

breakout · Post by **breakout** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:59 pm

gomnhky wrote:This bodes for a pretty interesting discussion. Those who are HS hockey purists and believe and love the HS hockey tradition established in MN, will bristle at some of the comments made in this thread. However, I think it's pretty obvious that for those who choose the AAA/Midget option, it can be a very viable and beneficial option but also a very costly one as well. There is no comparison to the number of games consistently played against quality competition versus that which is played by the average HS hockey program. The point about team depth is also a legitimate difference as many HS programs have 1 to 1 1/2 good lines (or only 1-2 "star" players) while the AAA/Midget teams are much deeper, which is only going to provide for better and stronger game competition and better overall development at practices. I would also think that the coaching and off-ice training is consistently better overall compared to most HS programs. It is becoming quite apparent that MN HS hockey is losing its "edge" on the competition and can be seen by the numbers (or lack thereof) of MN players participating in the NTDP and USHL as compared to earlier years. [/u] This is not a bad thing for hockey as a whole as you are seeing growth in non-traditional hockey areas and other programs catching up to and possibly passing up MN. It is true that if you are good enough, you will be found, no matter where or who you play for; however, it is also true that the bar has been raised and the level of competition is becoming more challenging for all players.

While on KFAN, Lou Nanne said Minnesota High School Hockey has never been better as far as producing high level kids.

Some Minnesota kids have been asked to play at NTDP and decided to stay home for various reasons. Aaron Ness and Nick Leddy are two that come to mind. Others go to NTDP and may regret it. From what I hear, Nick Pryor would be an example of that.

I would argue that the Elite League has had an effect on stopping players from moving to JRs. The Elite League offers up 25 more games against the states top competition. Pro, college and JR scouts are seen at many Elite League games. To attract that kind of attention, there must be good product coming out of Minnesota High School Hockey.

As for leaving early for JRs: leave early and you may sit. There are several examples of kids leaving early and sitting on the bench. How fun can that be?

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:49 pm

There is a way to get 'the best of both worlds'.

Introduce a "Varsity" age group in your MN Hockey programs.

Go from Bantams to "Varsity".

Forget about the MSHSL.

No limit on games. Longer seasons.

No whining about private schools and bigoty against Catholics , who always win.

A strict no waiver policy

Year end championship tournament played at the Xcel.

It would take a bit of getting used to but after awhile nobody would miss high school hockey

Bash Brother · Post by **Bash Brother** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:50 pm

Not feasible

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:52 pm

Bash Brother wrote:Not feasible

Why?

Nobody has even mentioned it as a Talking Point in a far and balanced way.

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:26 pm

packerboy wrote:
Bash Brother wrote:Not feasible
Why?

Nobody has even mentioned it as a Talking Point in a far and balanced way.

I like the idea PB. Would there be a Junior Varsity level for Warroad and St. Thomas?

DmanDad1980 · Post by **DmanDad1980** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:00 pm

So, a debate between the merits of AAA and High School Hockey...

From CBSSportsline, the top 210 North American Skaters are ranked for the upcoming NHL draft, and here is that link...
http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/draft/prospectrankings

In the top 210 North American Skaters:
- 33 are high school players from Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Connecticut, New York, and Mass
- 1 player from AAA, a kid who plays for Russell Stover out of the KC area

Save the money, don't send the kids to KC, Texas, Detroit or California to play AAA, stay at home and play hockey w/ kids who are friends for life.

Heck, if you want to spend the money, spend it at HM, Holy Angels or St. Thomas, get a good education for your kid and enjoy your kids games by car instead of by jet or by phone...

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:02 pm

I am no expert on the subject but I think AAA hockey exists for the same reason the Wisconsin Fire type stuff exists.

There isnt enough participation in hockey to field competetive commuity or school teams so they from club teams made up of kids from a general area rather than a school district.

MN has no need for a AAA type of format. There are plenty of numbers to play commuinty/school district hockey. IMO , AAA perpetuates numbers problems and is short sighted.... but it may be practical for some states.

So, I dont think the issue is "AAA or high school". Its more whether we should turn over hockey to the MSHSL when a player is in high school.

And Dman, you forgot CDH

ahastars03 · Post by **ahastars03** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:51 pm

i bet if those AAA teams could come and play some of the high school teams they would and if they were playing the top teams they would not win. They could come to MN and play 10 and have all good games. They couldn't go anywere else in the country and play 10 teams as good or better than them in a 30 mile radius. Shattuck is the best team in the country year in and year out so if you can go there do it why wouldn't you. alot of those AAA teams are only that because it makes their parents feel good about their kids and makes them think they are better than they really are. MN is doing a much better job with the elite league and if anything needs to change it would be make it a longer season but you can't in high school sports so they need to continue with elite league and things like that.

Bub · Post by **Bub** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:39 pm

Shattuck was the AAA Midget National Champion this year and they lost to Benilde.

edinalover1 · Post by **edinalover1** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:37 am

okay. Now whats the level of competion AAA hockey in Canada?

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:57 pm

Bub wrote:Shattuck was the AAA Midget National Champion this year and they lost to Benilde.

Uh, yeah. But you neglect to mention that they would beat Benilde 9 of 10 times and grossly outplayed them.

Also, the Shattuck Prep team is one team, but the 2nd string there is still a AAA Midget team.

As far as the thread goes, maybe AAA Midget isn't a great place for the Twin Cities kid. Might make sense for my son or the kids he'll play against.

Minnesota has it easy due to high participation. I wouldn't worry about Sun Belt hockey if I lived in one of the three Ms - Minnesota, Michigan, Massachusetts.

ahastars03 · Post by **ahastars03** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:43 pm

All the best kids at the highschool level in canada are playing some sort of jr. leage not midget AAA. i think. WHL i know is one leage anyone know of some more

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:11 pm

ahastars03 wrote:All the best kids at the highschool level in canada are playing some sort of jr. leage not midget AAA. i think. WHL i know is one leage anyone know of some more

The OHL has traditionally been the top Canadian Junior A league - not too surprising given the higher population density in Ontario.

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