Minnesota Made Ice Center

Marty McSorely · Post by **Marty McSorely** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:39 am

What's the status of this place? You city folk either Love or Hate the place but how's it doing financially? You've got to give the guy credit for trying to do something that only 1 other guy has ever made successful.

DuckDuckQuackQuack · Post by **DuckDuckQuackQuack** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:55 pm

"State of Minnesota made"

MM has three or four AAA teams at every level (machine, deuce, snipers, grinders and 99 girls machine team)
MM has two rinks
MM just broke ground for the third rink
MM will have 4 Mite teams
MM will have 4 Advance Mite teams
MM will have 4-6 Squirt teams
MM offers year around clinincs / speed academy in the summer

My son plays on one of the AAA teams at Minnesota made. We're really happy with the program. So much that my son has decided to skate in the Choice squirt program this winter. He had a tryout last Friday.

One thing I think it's important to note. Minnesota made is a business with kids skating from all over the metro area. The kids have to tryout to even skate in the Choice leagues. This assures the parents there's nothing watered down to the extent of local associations. I contacted my local association multiple times over the past couple months to see what they plan on offering in the squirt program. I was told they need to hold their elections before any decisions are made. So I went with the sure thing Minnesota made. I know with Minnesota made my son will be skating with great talent and very good coaches.
The most important part of the decision was the fact that my son chose to play at MM versus our local association. It was 100% his decision. Last winter he played in the Choice Mite league. He's currently skating for one of the Minnesota made AAA teams and he has tried out to play for the Choice squirt league this winter. We both have made so many new friends with more each day.
I know it sounds like I'm affiliated with Minnesota made. I promise you I'm not. We've had a good experience.

To answer your question: I rate the overall experience at Minnesota made very positive.

misspacman · Post by **misspacman** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:13 pm

duckduckquackquack, I assume your child is will be a first year squirt if he played in the mite league last year. Do you think it is a good idea to leave it up to your 8 or 9 year old child to decide what is best for him? You state it was 100% his decision. I am not critizing you at all, I am wondering about the decision to allow an 8 or 9 year old make that call. As my son went through the ranks, I listened but in the end it was my decision to make. Your son may think he made the right decision, and he may have made the right decision, but we are parents because we have the benefit of having experienced events in life. Your son has not had this opportunity yet. I am only saying this because the squirt years were the best years for my kids, and it is time that they will never get back.

DuckDuckQuackQuack · Post by **DuckDuckQuackQuack** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:10 pm

Misspacman- It was a very tough decision. If I felt that MM was a bad choice for him I wouldn't even offer that as a choice. It's a no lose situation for us. I'm fine with him skating at MM or our local association. I think because my son gets to play with his buddies all the time that's not a factor.
The only concern I have with my local association is the fact they still don't know what they're going to offer this winter for the squirt league. They stated they have to hold elections first and start meeting closer to the winter season. So things are on hold until people have time to meet. I understand because everyone are volunteers.
The beauty of MM is the fact that hockey is their business. They plan way ahead and the parents have the piece of mind when signing their kids up to play. They know the kids will receive great training from good coaches. Also keep in mind that the kids have to tryout for Minnesota made so the kids are assured to skate with others in their skill set.

Because my son has been skating non-stop at MM since last October 1st he's very comfortable and feels that MM is home for him. As long as he's happy I'm happy for him.

misspacman · Post by **misspacman** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:55 pm

Thanks duck duck and I hope you took no offense. I loved watching my boys play squirts with his friends. The decision was easier because there was no Minnesota Made choice league to play in. Please don't fool yourself though into believing that your son made the decision. Your posts make it clear you are a big believer in Minnesota Made and not in your association. The posts are about you and about how you feel about the different programs. Your son is not at a point in his life to make this decision 100%. I just hope you are not too disappointed if your son doesn't end up being all you are wanting him to be. I am guessing you are a relative novice with hockey, and you will have to learn things by living them. FYI hockey is the associations business as well. Please don't imply that Minnesota Made is superior to association hockey. There are many good coaches throughout the metro with alot of great kids.

puckfan · Post by **puckfan** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:09 pm

The only concern I have with my local association is the fact they still don't know what they're going to offer this winter for the squirt league. They stated they have to hold elections first and start meeting closer to the winter season. So things are on hold until people have time to meet. I understand because everyone are volunteers

I don't get what you mean by "what they're going to offer this winter for the squirt league". Are you wondering if your association has a "house" league and a traveling league?

I think that it's pretty straight forward under MN Hockey (no mater what you think of them). Associations field an A teamZ(some may try 2 this year), a B team(or more) and maybe some C level teams. They play a district schedule, some tournaments and practices.

I find your comment about "they have to tryout" kind of amusing......we all know if they only have enough players to fill half the teams they will take whoever is willing to pay their asking price.

If the Squirt choice league is such a step up from association hockey, why are all the Machine kids playing for the Fire? I see that the coaching staff of the 98 Fire looks alot like the 98 Machine and all those kids are Squirt eligible.

council member retired · Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:23 pm

My grandson was solicited to play on this 98 Fire team. He has been feeling some heat... no pun intended. He will play with his association. I am told the 98' Fire may not have enough "quality" players to field a team this year.

Is MN Made squirt league effecting the Fire? They really are part of one another, so perhaps they will make it work.

Gotothenetman · Post by **Gotothenetman** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:46 pm

Quack Quack

My question is so all these kids that choose to leave there association to play at Minny Made are they expecting to be welcomed back with open arms when they get to Pee Wee's or is the next step a Pee Wee Choice league. I can not imagine my son not playing for his home colors the community where he will go to high school.

I am a Pee Wee A coach and I would make it very clear that if our Squirt program is not good enough for your super star than either is the Pee Wee program and I would have a real tough time cutting a kid that stayed in the community when your super star comes back.

Bruins · Post by **Bruins** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:46 am

Gotothenetman wrote:
I am a Pee Wee A coach and I would make it very clear that if our Squirt program is not good enough for your super star than either is the Pee Wee program and I would have a real tough time cutting a kid that stayed in the community when your super star comes back.

Is it Fire season again? Sounds like its all about you coach. This is the reason why the Fire and Choice league exist. Many of these players and parents choose to leave because of this old school mentality. Lets face it , there are alot of poorly run associations with below average coaching and families are starting to look at other options. The amount of positive feedback for Fire/Choice programs seems to be much higher than association hockey.

hockey talkie · Post by **hockey talkie** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:06 am

Talk about holding a grudge Gotothenetman. I thought it was supposed to be about the kids. I don't think its nice to punish a kid because he or she found a better option for them earlier on.

puckfan · Post by **puckfan** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:12 am

The amount of positive feedback for Fire/Choice programs seems to be much higher than association hockey.

Sure, how many thousands of kids are playing association hockey vs what a 150 or so? (4-6 mite teams with 15 skaters and 4-6 squirt teams this year).

If they are really that down on their association, get involved and make positive changes......I'm sure their hockey board would love to have them!

countryboy · Post by **countryboy** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:25 am

You make it sound like all associations are on board and have an A (maybe 2) a B and then C. Well thats not so. Heck our asssociation thins we should have no division of talent and have 4 even squirt teams and stay home and play house with only 1 practice a week and no coaching. They feel its good enough to just schedule a hour of ice, line up on the goal line and do the old right leg left leg for an hour and cal it a prctice. They teach nothing when it comes to the concept of the game such as passing or simple position play. They are more concerned that there wont be any comments from the kid who doesnt even want to be there but mommy and daddy make him and hold back the ones that actually want to be players. Im sorry in 1960 this might have worked but now you cant wait until they are 13 to try and teach them the game. Waht we all need is options. If your association offers something for EVERYONE than you are lucky!!! For us our kids develop DISPITE the program not BECAUSE of the program. We use to have a proud and psoitve youth sports program but as you all can see, under our current leadership over the past 15 years, it is easier to do NOTHING and to push out all the families that want more than to get off the phone and actually put something into the program. The leadership in our program is so out of thouch with what is real in the youth hockey world. Our program might be small but others make it work (Roseau) we dont need to reinvent the wheel, just open your eyes to what works and make changes for the better rather than status quo. OPTIONS are great because it keeps everyone honest and doesnt allow poor programs to continue. IT IS ABOUT GIVING YOUR CHILD THE BEST EXPIERIENCE POSSIBLE AT EVERY LEVEL, NOT D1 OR NHL, JUST THE BEST AT EVERY LEVEL AND THAT WILL GROW HOCKEY!!!! The Fire and MM both offer that system of checks and balances. Who is anyone on this board to tell another what is best for their child. Not one person on here or at Minnesota Hockey has the magic recipe so everyone needs to support each other and provide options and opportunity!!!! QUACK QUACK!

Gotothenetman · Post by **Gotothenetman** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:32 am

Bruins wrote:
Is it Fire season again? Sounds like its all about you coach. This is the reason why the Fire and Choice league exist. Many of these players and parents choose to leave because of this old school mentality. Lets face it , there are alot of poorly run associations with below average coaching and families are starting to look at other options. The amount of positive feedback for Fire/Choice programs seems to be much higher than association hockey.

Let's see I was one of the lucky few that made it yo both college and pro. Won 2 high school state titles, and still my best friends are the kids I grew up playing with from my community. I have been to the highest level not sure about you Bruins, but I think I can coach and offer a 6 & 7 grader a lot. Yes, many associations may not have coaches that have played at the higher levels.

I still have many friends coaching at both the college and pro level you should talk to them once. You willnot find one of them that would support MN Made or think it is a great thing. If the has the talent and the desire they will make it, but I think you probably know the stats on how many really make it. It is a game to enjoy and play with friends that you go to school with. The numbers are so small that move on why take away something that you will have forever no matter on good of player you are.

MN Made is born off of 1 great class of athletes, and know a bunch of parents who think throwing thousands of dollars and thousands of hours at there kid when they are 8,9,10 will make them stars.

Check the stats it could not be any farther from the truth.

Stay with your association, enjoy the game, play with friends that you will grow up with and live near.

If it's not great try to offer help don't run away beacuse you think or more likley hope that your bigger and better than everyone else.

misspacman · Post by **misspacman** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:42 am

Most associations do offer something for everyone so don't act like if this is the case that "you are lucky." Most of the kids that end up at Minnesota Made do have options. There's nothing wrong with Minnesota Made. I think what gotothenetman was trying to say is that if there is a child who played in association the whole time versus a child who did not and then came back, and they are similar in talent, who wouldn't reward the child who stuck with the association? Like it or not that is probably the reality.

WildFan · Post by **WildFan** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:14 am

I think for many of these parents it's more of a status thing for them. They are living there dreams through their kids and I bet a good majority of these kids would rather play with their friends and close to home. I think the parents are quick to point out "Little Johnny plays for so and so". We've all met these type of parents. It's like a badge of honor for them. The kids just do what Ma and Pa tell them they're doing.

My son would rather play with his friends. I've been approached to have my son tryout with some of these so called top programs often discussed on these boards and declined due to him wanting to play with his friends and play other sports. He loves hockey and so far it's his favorite sport but he also gets to play baseball and football. He's still been able to skate plenty with a hockey camp and open hockey at the rink with his friends. Let kids be kids and let them enjoy the summer with their friends and other activities.

DuckDuckQuackQuack · Post by **DuckDuckQuackQuack** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:31 am

Minnesota made is a good fit for my son.

I'm not making my son a super star. If I'm going to pay a lot of money I want my son to develop. He REALLY enjoys Minnesota made and has a lot of friends.

The only problem I have with any of this is the fact that other people I've never met are telling me what's best for my son. I have never or would never come on this site and tell some one whats best for their kids. All kids are different and learn at different paces.

Once again I have nothing against my local association. They're all voluteers trying to do their best. We plan on my son returning to association hockey to play second year squirts. If he doesn't make an A team so be it. Just so he has fun. Like I said the fun factor is there in both programs.

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:08 am

Gotothenetman,
I like your 2nd post in this thread a lot better than your first. Threats of blacklisting a player for not playing in the association will only harbor resentment towards your program. However, when you give seasoned advise coming from personal experience you may persuade more people.

BTW, there are some high level former players who do support MM. They have their kids and grandkids playing there. Some are even the coaches!

MM is making associations who are most effected (usually the closest) make changes to entice players to stay or come back. I hope you and they are remembering that you will get more flies with sugar than vinegar.

hockey talkie · Post by **hockey talkie** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:19 am

Well said Spin-O-rama. DDQQ, when your son returns to his association, hopefully he will be treated fairly and will be placed according to his ability.

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:24 am

Many people think that MM kids are only playing there because of pushy parents with unrealistic dreams. But how about the parent who wants a more consistent schedule, less travel, and lower overall expense?

Think about it. MM choice was Sat AM, Sun afternoon, and weeknight practices were 5:40 to 7 on weeknights. All at one location. A very dependable schedule vs my association's anytime, anywhere scheduling. And in the squirt league there are no expensive tournaments to travel to. Maybe the long travel through traffic to Mariucci and spending gobs on parking for a 1 hr practice and spending who knows how much on out of town tournaments is o.k. with some people. After all, it is cool to play at different arenas and get out of town. However, some don't want the hassle and expense. Isn't it nice that there is a choice?

BTW, my kids did not participate in MM last year and are not this year. And I live 5 min away.

10ouncepuck · Post by **10ouncepuck** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Gotothenetman wrote:Quack Quack

My question is so all these kids that choose to leave there association to play at Minny Made are they expecting to be welcomed back with open arms when they get to Pee Wee's or is the next step a Pee Wee Choice league. I can not imagine my son not playing for his home colors the community where he will go to high school.

I am a Pee Wee A coach and I would make it very clear that if our Squirt program is not good enough for your super star than either is the Pee Wee program and I would have a real tough time cutting a kid that stayed in the community when your super star comes back.

Ahhhh, it's this kind of thinking that lead to Associations having issues. I don't like what some other people do and I have the power to punish. That's just great. Being a big community booster is fine if it's a good fit for you. That's great - Gotothenetman - your son will play association and go to the local high school. How do you feel about private school kids that have no intention of going to their local high school? They won't be bleeding the local colors. Should you treat them the same as a returning MM kid? Replace them with a "community kid"? Hummm. How about a kid that moves in from a neighboring community (association) because their not happy with it? Do you displace a "community kid" from your "A" squad because the "new kid" is a stud?

These are just some thoughts that popped up as I read your post. I hope your local association has some adequate checks and balances to reign in power mongers.

forechecker · Post by **forechecker** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:44 pm

Very good thread with much debate. I will say this about the Fire. Our family was a pioneer in the program years ago and how things change. We used to take immense heat over kids leaving the association when we were out recruiting/asking players to play. As we know things evolve and it appears reading the threads it is more accepted than it once was. Bernie is a very smart guy that sees an opportunity to of course make some $ but his record does speak for itself. Minnesota has long been behind the world of winter AAA hockey and in my opinion these are the first steps in eliminating the soccer mom (no offense) mentality. Hockey has changed a ton and you can say let the kids be kids, play for your town, or whatever, and I agree to a point, but kids never used to play year round either. Not many 3 sport athletes left and for some families this is a road they choose. The competition in these winter AAA leagues/tournaments for the record is a lot tougher than most winter tournaments/leagues in town but the travel is not for everyone. It will not guarantee any success however it is just another choice to develope. Not knowing the long term plans of Minny Made program I would guess in the coming years the Chicago/Michigan/Colorado/California/Arizona AAA teams will be coming to town as his age groups expand to play these kids, and when they do it will be some of the best competition around. Having watched many of those teams over the years you don't have to look far to get your butt handed to you not mention the speed of the game is awesome.

DuckDuckQuackQuack · Post by **DuckDuckQuackQuack** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:35 pm

spin-o-rama wrote:Many people think that MM kids are only playing there because of pushy parents with unrealistic dreams. But how about the parent who wants a more consistent schedule, less travel, and lower overall expense?

Think about it. MM choice was Sat AM, Sun afternoon, and weeknight practices were 5:40 to 7 on weeknights. All at one location. A very dependable schedule vs my association's anytime, anywhere scheduling. And in the squirt league there are no expensive tournaments to travel to. Maybe the long travel through traffic to Mariucci and spending gobs on parking for a 1 hr practice and spending who knows how much on out of town tournaments is o.k. with some people. After all, it is cool to play at different arenas and get out of town. However, some don't want the hassle and expense. Isn't it nice that there is a choice?

BTW, my kids did not participate in MM last year and are not this year. And I live 5 min away.

Spin-o-rama, Exactly! Well put.

My son loves it at Minnesota made. He has fun, he has friends, and he enjoys the coaches. We do plan on going back to our local association next year to tryout for a squirt team.

JoltDelivered · Post by **JoltDelivered** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:36 pm

There was a comment above about playing high school hockey.

Please understand that you're a failure if you end up playing high school hockey. Ask Bernie, he tells his Machine kids that all of the time. By the time you hit 15 you should be on your way to Ann Arbor or Juniors. Only the mediocre get left behind in high school.

However for a mere $349, he'll make you faster in a week at one of his speed camps...

10ouncepuck · Post by **10ouncepuck** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:25 pm

JoltDelivered wrote:There was a comment above about playing high school hockey.

Please understand that you're a failure if you end up playing high school hockey. Ask Bernie, he tells his Machine kids that all of the time. By the time you hit 15 you should be on your way to Ann Arbor or Juniors. Only the mediocre get left behind in high school.

However for a mere $349, he'll make you faster in a week at one of his speed camps...

Nothing "shocking" in that post. Pun intended. I'm sure some kid's hear they're a "failure" if they don't make the high school team, or the A squad as a yute, so what's your point?

P.S. in some off season association promoted programs you can spend the same or more $$$ for "speed" or even no speed.

hockey_is_a_choice · Post by **hockey_is_a_choice** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:53 pm

I, for one, look forward to the day when AAA hockey goes year-round in Minnesota. I have read blurbs advising people to stay and "fix" their associations, but many associations can't be "fixed" to offer the programs that a MM offers. MM and many of the burgeoning Independent AAA programs are offering a higher caliber of hockey development, which can't be replicated in association hockey. Why? Money.

Parents who write the checks to MM and/or Independent AAA programs expect more from MM and AAA programs than from their local associations. If MM or the AAA program doesn't offer quality programs, parents vote with their checkbook. In association hockey you don't have that option. You are a captive member. Unless you move, you can't vote with your feet or checkbook. Instead, you are stuck with a group of people--some of whom want to punish young kids for skating in Bernie's Choice mite or squirt programs--who don't share your passion for development. Frankly, the reason my son isn't going to skate in Bernie's squirt league is because I know that my son will be punished if he returns to the local association as a Peewee.

Because of Bernie, several Minnesota Independent AAA programs are considering going year-round. Hats off to Bernie for having the courage to push the envelope and own and grow a business that challenges the status quo. You don't have to like the guy, but you do have to admire Bernie for taking a huge financial risk. Face it, most of the Bernie bashers would love to own their own arena and come up with a similar business plan that lines their respective pockets with greenbacks while teaching kids to play hockey. Those same Bernie bashers are more than willing to punish a young kid who has the audacity to skate elsewhere. How revealing!

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Minnesota Made Ice Center

Minnesota Made Ice Center

98 fire

NOT SO FAST