Osseo Maple Grove Merger

gilmour · Post by **gilmour** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:00 pm

I don't get the thought behind the size of the high school - the size of the HS does not correlate to the size of the youth hockey program.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed May 21, 2008 11:28 pm

gilmour wrote:I don't get the thought behind the size of the high school - the size of the HS does not correlate to the size of the youth hockey program.

This is true but it does give some idea of what potential there could be for recruiting better (at least in terms of more) numbers.

But we all know that numbers alone do not make a good program.
What is good?
My definiton is where kids get an opportunity to learn, to play at a competitive level, and have a shot at success (winning season, advance to regions, and some times a shot at going to state).

Whatthe · Post by **Whatthe** » Thu May 22, 2008 11:47 pm

This is true but it does give some idea of what potential there could be for recruiting better (at least in terms of more) numbers.

Per capita income/median home value is much better indicator. No matter how well you recruit, you are going to get more kids that can even afford to play hockey in Edina/Wayzata than in Osseo/Brooklyn Park.

But we all know that numbers alone do not make a good program.
What is good?
My definiton is where kids get an opportunity to learn, to play at a competitive level, and have a shot at success (winning season, advance to regions, and some times a shot at going to state).

I agree 100%. Problem nowadays is that advancing to regions is primarily for teams from affluent/huge associations (Edina sent 12 teams to state last year), and those associations that do not have face any affluent/huge associations to get to regions.

IMO allow associations from less affluent areas that have to face these teams to combine, especially if combined they are still smaller.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Fri May 23, 2008 3:10 am

A friend just gave me a few numbers he was handed out at past state meetings. I guess Osseo/Maple Grove registers all as one association and the total registered players and coaches for 2006-07 were 1195 and for this year the total was 1154. The number of players registered in 06-07 was 933, no numbers for this year and do not have the numbers for each High school attendance area. With these numbers there should not be a problem to combine all and then field 2 teams at the A level. These numbers put them ahead of Rochester, Mankato,Duluth and very close to Lakeville, associations that field more than one team at each A level and have more than one high school with in district boundaries.

Whatthe · Post by **Whatthe** » Fri May 23, 2008 10:18 am

With these numbers there should not be a problem to combine all and then field 2 teams at the A level. These numbers put them ahead of Rochester, Mankato,Duluth and very close to Lakeville, associations that field more than one team at each A level and have more than one high school with in district boundaries.

Not on point, but some of those associations have not always fielded 2 A teams at each level.

If OMGHA is forced to field two A teams, shouldn't all the associations larger than OMGHA be forced to do the same?

gilmour · Post by **gilmour** » Fri May 23, 2008 1:19 pm

OMGHA having two A teams at each level, let alone any level, is not going to happen.

whockeyguy · Post by **whockeyguy** » Sun May 25, 2008 8:44 pm

so facts show that there are plenty of numbers in both of these associations, if Mn Hockey approves this , well then lets call it AAA because thats what it iis all coming to, to combine just to try to go to state is a joke and that is all this is, both of you have the numbers to develop to compete, ,get some people in to teach the kids, my GOD there are about 60-70% of the associations in this stae that wished they had the numbers both of you have.
This should be DROPPED right now

trippedovertheblueline · Sun May 25, 2008 11:11 pm

why are they wanting to merge with this many players?
How many players does Osseo bring? How many does Maple Grove have?

Isn't Maple Grove a developing community? Osseo hoping to maintain?

If the plea is to merge to have a competitive team, ughh thats tough.
Apple Valley and Eastview are seperate associations and each has about 400 to 450 players. If OMGA has two A teams, sweet, then they are merging to pool their resources.

gilmour · Post by **gilmour** » Mon May 26, 2008 8:19 am

where on here did it show any numbers related to youth hockey participants in MG and Osseo? - the size of the high school is irrelevent. AAA? - hardly. Going to State? - first I heard of that one. As for numbers, thirty kids in squirts for Osseo next year and that trend will continue by looking at mite numbers.

They are saying they may split again if the redistricting happens for the MG and Osseo HS...this way the Osseo numbers will spike up.

Whatthe · Post by **Whatthe** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:35 am

if Mn Hockey approves this , well then lets call it AAA because thats what it iis all coming to, to combine just to try to go to state is a joke and that is all this is

I don't get it. Why does everyone get there undies in a bunch if OMGHA goes back to earlier boundaries to form one A team, but no one cares if Wayzata (in the same district) fields only one A team with higher numbers?

gilmour · Post by **gilmour** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:07 pm

Vote is in: OMGHA is having 1 SqA team.

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:20 pm

gilmour wrote:Vote is in: OMGHA is having 1 SqA team.

What are the total Squirt #'s estimated to be?

mngopherfan · Post by **mngopherfan** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:34 pm

Can't Never Tried wrote:
gilmour wrote:Vote is in: OMGHA is having 1 SqA team.
What are the total Squirt #'s estimated to be?

How about Bantam's?? one A team? I cant see why each HS program would agree to this. It cuts their feeder team in half (in theory 1/2 Osseo kids 1/2 MG).

I love winning as much as anoyone but the youth program is about development...

pro2b@3 · Post by **pro2b@3** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:51 pm

gilmour wrote:Vote is in: OMGHA is having 1 SqA team.

Wimps, just like EDINA

160+ Squirts and 1 A team, that's a crime.....

I know associations with less than 50 Squirts that play A....

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:32 pm

pro2b@3 wrote:
gilmour wrote:Vote is in: OMGHA is having 1 SqA team.
Wimps, just like EDINA

160+ Squirts and 1 A team, that's a crime.....

I know associations with less than 50 Squirts that play A....

I'd agree if that's an accurate # that's dumb, so winning is now the important thing at 10 yrs old in OMGHA .
So unless it is the will of the members of both Osseo and MG.....Bad idea!

gilmour · Post by **gilmour** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:41 pm

Facts are not accurate for OMGHA...OMGHA numbers for squirts will be around 110 +/- 10 kids. With Osseo having approx 30 kids in Squirts with some A level players do you think it is fair for anyone to have them play B1 or B2? - combining the 2 programs makes sense when you look at the trending Osseo numbers and the total number of kids doesn't scream 2 A teams.

iwearmysunglassesatnight · Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:50 pm

If our association had 110 squirts, +/- 10. I would EXPECT that we would have 2 squirt A teams. As they move up, I would see one peewee A, (Hopeful we had the talent for two ) and a single Bantam A team.

110 kids is plenty to field two A teams at squirts. District 6 has associations competing at A and developing others with 45 kids per age group.

I wouldn't think it is too late to get OMGHA to go with two A teams, good luck.

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:51 pm

gilmour wrote:Facts are not accurate for OMGHA...OMGHA numbers for squirts will be around 110 +/- 10 kids. With Osseo having approx 30 kids in Squirts with some A level players do you think it is fair for anyone to have them play B1 or B2? - combining the 2 programs makes sense when you look at the trending Osseo numbers and the total number of kids doesn't scream 2 A teams.

There are others that field A teams with similar #'s.
Osseo's really down to 30 squirts?
The thing is 110 still comes out to six teams or so, but i would suppose that includes house players too? so then if that's the case I would say it's not that big of a deal, except when it comes to the HS.... what happens there?

My_Kid_Loves_Hockey · Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:21 pm

110 kids is plenty to field two A teams at squirts. District 6 has associations competing at A and developing others with 45 kids per age group.

Why should they have to field 2 A teams.......oh I see, they have 110 kids.....

Doesn't the association (OMGHA) have a duty to their players to make sure that they are fielding teams at the correct level's?

If they feel that they will not have COMPETITVE teams by having 2, shouldn't they have the right to say one's the number. Nothing worse for development of a kid's CONFIDENCE than to get worked all the time.

People talk about Mankato having 2 A teams, how did they each do? One did well from what I remember hearing and one....not so well, probalby better off as a B team (or B1).

council member retired · Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:51 pm

my son is forced to love hockey :

How do you know they won't be able to put two quality teams at the A level? If they can't put two out there at squirt A's with 110 kids, then they should re look at their mite program, coaches, or the city water.

What do you define competitive as? Where does Maple Grove play district games at? Who cares if they lose them all, but they are not in d6, so they probably do quite well. You can sign your A teams up in any trny you want, and get some good games against decent competition. Would OMGHA second squirt A team be able to compete with Crow River?, Monticello? St Michael? Andover, Brookyln Park, Armstrong, Washburn, or West Tonka?

A board saying only 1 A team is for victories....At a squirt level. Sad.

My_Kid_Loves_Hockey · Post by **My_Kid_Loves_Hockey** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:17 am

Public Official Retired & To Much Time On Your Hands:

I don't know that they can't put 2 A teams, but I asked the question:

Doesn't the association (OMGHA) have a duty to their players to make sure that they are fielding teams at the correct level's?

If they feel that they will not have COMPETITVE teams by having 2, shouldn't they have the right to say one's the number?

Numbers alone don't mean you can field 2 teams.

A board saying only 1 A team is for victories....At a squirt level. Sad.
I must have missed where the board said it's all about winning.

It's real simple, get MN hockey to make a rule, if you have more than X # of kids in your program you field 2 A teams. This way everybody has to do it then.

Everybody knows that you can't develope unless you're on the "A" team

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:57 am

What about the impact to the HS teams?

mngopherfan · Post by **mngopherfan** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:35 pm

Can't Never Tried wrote:What about the impact to the HS teams?

Not only that but there are plenty of Assn's that struggle with numbers, i mean really struggle not O-MG struggle. There are plenty of teams on every level with less that 15 skaters, they do fine. So would each of these. This is one of the most arrogant things i have seen in youth hockey, winning is important dont get me wrong, but not at the expense of development.

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Osseo Maple Grove Merger

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