"Minnesota Hockey What Needs to Be Done to Stay on Top&

[Hux]

Greater numbers will definitely help. IMO, by far the most important factor in getting better players is to have more players participating. When Canada and the USSR dominated the hockey scene, they had the most players. I hope girls hockey continues to grow; but the current economy and the still erroneous reputation of hockey causing all kinds of injuries certainly is not conducive to growing the sport. As mentioned many times on this board and others, hockey doesn't come close to soccer or gymnastics in the injury department. Yet both those sports continue to grow.

I walked into a rink in NH last week and found that they were running a free Try Hockey-Learn to Play program. There were 40 some odd young girls on the ice and some of them came from up to 30 miles away. The program ran for once a week for six weeks and was put on for the purpose of drawing new kids into the sport and hopefully they would play for the local club team.

Programs of this nature need to be more readily available as a way of enticing otherwise skeptical or uninformed folks into the game. Just like test driving a car, being able to try out the game with no expense is a great way to have otherwise reticent parents give it a whirl, and a great way for Janey to have some fun with friends and get drawn into the sport.

[rinkrat90]

...With the number of girls we have playing hockey, there should be more than one Minnesota player on the USA U18 roster

.

There would be more players on the U18 team if our girls were in the same hockey environment as the AAA or SSM players. A player would without question be a better player if she played with better players and competed against better players on a regular basis.

If the goal was to produce more National team members, the way to go would be to have a league that would include the top players from MN; not sure how many teams that would be... 5-8? Then add the top teams from WI, IL, and SSM. Compete in tourneys that would include the top teams from the East; Assebet and NAHA come to mind.

Top coaching would obviously be necessary.

I think to produce top players takes more than a development camp now and then. You need consistent, high level play that an entire season would give.

I think games are sometimes underemphasized in their importance; the name of the game these days is development. I think fast-paced, competitive games are very valuable. They let a player know what she has to do to keep up; what works at the higher pace, etc.

I'm not sure that the type of league described above would ever happen in MN. The HS programs are for the most part flourishing. It allows more players to participate. It is much cheaper. So, there are definintely benefits to a lot of players.

At this stage of girls hockey in MN, the HS system will not produce many National level players.

With that being said, I can't really explain the HS players that made the U18 team last year (Grogan, Bacon, Schleper, Wild, Erickson). So, go figure.

[hockeyrube7]

...With the number of girls we have playing hockey, there should be more than one Minnesota player on the USA U18 roster.

There is nothing wrong with our developement. There is more to this than just that. Maybe the process, maybe those involved, but most likely just an anomily. Nothing to panic over I'd say. You are correct, we should see more with our numbers vs any where else.

I think Hux has the best suggestion, get more kids involved or "Increase the base".

[twowayplay]

And get a head coach from MN

[rinkrat90]

Actually in my last post, I had the quote and my thoughts mixed up. I am pretty clueless when it comes to complex word processing tasks. The quote regarding MN only having one player was from MNHOCKEYFAN. The rest that was highlighted was my post. I received three private messages wondering where I found that quote.

[chickendance]

There is nothing wrong with our developement.

I think this is part of the problem. I agree with your statement not to panic. However, I think you ought to find out whether there is anything wrong with our development rather than simply declare victory or dismiss it as an anomaly. I am not suggesting that the U18 team is the only measure either.

Sometimes, you need to go outside your own circle of friends to find out whether your doing it right or not. If we in MN only look at ourselves, it will be very easy to convince ourselves that everything is alright. We might want to ask some people on the outside to tell us what they think.

Lastly, I would also suggest that we do a good job on a lot of areas. However, I am not sure that in all the years I have been around this sport, we have ever asked what success looks like. What do we measure to determine our success in developing our kids as a whole state? Think about that. How do you measure across districts success in player development? I know Associations may do it individually. But this thread is about the broader perspective.

If we don't measure something, we won't know whether we are making progress.

[Melvin44]

I think we should move our girls to Canada all year and bring them back a week before NDP tryouts.

Seriously, Our girls will be fine playing High School and U19AAA in the summer or Thoroughbreds/Shattuck's along with training like OS. They also have to want it and not just the parents. If a player is willing to go that extra mile and do the off ice along with the above mentioned they will be fine.

Watch summer U16 and U19AAA games and see all the talent. There used to be only 2 or 3 teams with top to bottom talented players now there or 5 or 6. Girl’s hockey has come so far and getting better every year. I predict there will be at least 3 or 4 players from Minnesota make the next team.

I might be a homer but I also feel we could put together a whole team of Minnesota girls and play the selected U18 team and compete.

[chickendance]

That would be another way to measure.

Since this isn't going to happen anytime soon, it falls into the category of us convincing ourselves that there is no problem, absent data. If we say we are competitive then we must be.

By the way, Shattuck's had 2 MN kids on their roster last year.

[MNHockeyFan]

I might be a homer but I also feel we could put together a whole team of Minnesota girls and play the selected U18 team and compete.

It would have been interesting how many would have made the U18 team had they put the Minnesota girls who were sent to NDP all on one team, rather than spreading them out. I suspect they would have done quite well and it would have harder for the evaluators to pick only one.

[hockeyrube7]

I might be a homer but I also feel we could put together a whole team of Minnesota girls and play the selected U18 team and compete.

It would have been interesting how many would have made the U18 team had they put the Minnesota girls who were sent to NDP all on one team, rather than spreading them out. I suspect they would have done quite well and it would have harder for the evaluators to pick only one.

Maybe there in lies the problem. I heard before that while the MN kids are the most highly skilled, the ones they send there don't play well with others. Could be wrong, but that could be more the problem. Maybe just maybe, here we tend to highlight the highly skilled, end to end player in our try outs, and maybe we tend to over look more of the kids that are the true "Players", not just highly skilled.

Chickendance, I really don't believe there is a lack of good training or opportunity. So sorry if I offended you, but you can only push a kid so hard, and there are tons of training. The truth is, some are just going to stand out, and for some no matter how much you "Train" them, they will just be a nice player, and may not end up "Elite". Yes something needs to change, but it seems we are more trying to change the girls to match the boys, and aren't they fading in interest, so is that the direction we should really take.

[chickendance]

Not offended Rube. It's a discussion forum.

I agree with you on the push. I am not advocating pushing any harder because that comes from within. I am also not at all interested in moving to match the boys.

This game has dramatically changed on the girls side. What we send them are individuals. It's time to change that. It's true that some kids stand out. Yet, it is so often followed by, if only they would pass the puck...or if only they would play defense...

[hockeyrube7]

Not offended Rube. It's a discussion forum.

I agree with you on the push. I am not advocating pushing any harder because that comes from within. I am also not at all interested in moving to match the boys.

This game has dramatically changed on the girls side. What we send them are individuals. It's time to change that. It's true that some kids stand out. Yet, it is so often followed by, if only they would pass the puck...or if only they would play defense...

Right on, and these are the comments I keep hearing about a lot of MN kids!

[finance_gal]

Not offended Rube. It's a discussion forum.

I agree with you on the push. I am not advocating pushing any harder because that comes from within. I am also not at all interested in moving to match the boys.

This game has dramatically changed on the girls side. What we send them are individuals. It's time to change that. It's true that some kids stand out. Yet, it is so often followed by, if only they would pass the puck...or if only they would play defense...

From the time a potential Elite Minnesota Girl hockey player enters the High School game about 7th or 8th grade they are fed the puck, they are given a ton of ice time in games and the whole system is skewed tword feeding the 2 or 3 elite type players because they have been designated the the goal scorers. With the short High School season and limited high level competition, they don't need to be taught the complete game and so at national and international camps and tournaments you'll see some very very good Minnesota players sluffing off at back checking, waiting to long to pass the puck, and not going hard their whole time on the ice. while the girls from the AAA teams play such a long season against tough competition every week they are trained to play a much more complete game because thats what it takes to be successful.

The things were doing that are right are the two nations women's hockey league, which gives the girls a chance to play against good teams from outside of Minnesota. were upgrading coaches at the high school level which hopefully bring a higher skill level to the high school game were also offering more opportunitties than ever for kids to play hockey which is building the base.

What could we do better? We should offer more before and after teams with less fluid of rosters and let them play in the U19 national tournament. Extend the high school season a little bit, Keep 7th, and 8th graders out of high school hockey thus leaving them at a lower level forcing the competition at U14 to get better before they come into high school. and get schools to scrimmage USA hockey hockey teams such as shattuck.

Our players are good enough to play as indivduals at the highest levels but we just need to challenge them to play a more complete game and that will come if they play better competition on a regular basis because that's what it will take to compete.

[joehockey]

Not offended Rube. It's a discussion forum.

I agree with you on the push. I am not advocating pushing any harder because that comes from within. I am also not at all interested in moving to match the boys.

This game has dramatically changed on the girls side. What we send them are individuals. It's time to change that. It's true that some kids stand out. Yet, it is so often followed by, if only they would pass the puck...or if only they would play defense...

Right on, and these are the comments I keep hearing about a lot of MN kids!

Great stuff! So watching a lot of girls hockey where are girls being taught and held accountable to play team hockey - units of 5 attacking vs. 5 kids individually attacking?

I see that on the T-Breds one touch passing, movement away from the puck to open area or in support and maybe that is what is required across U19 teams to compete?

The MN Upper Midwest HS League this fall should give 60 HS players the chance to play 4 times against SSM - will be interesting if the League coaches stress team play or just lets players go out and play their HS game.

In HS games you see individual play and even when summer teams have 15 strong players most coaches are just letting girls skate their HS game open the door and go it is summer hockey - which is fine.

So if you just keep doing what you are doing.....how do you improve in a team game? Watching in Rochester (U15 and U16) there are a lot of talented kids that have the size, skating and skills of MN kids - we don't have that market locked up over the rest of the country.

I traveled home with two people involved at Rochester as coaches who are involved in D1 hockey - they said Minnesota has had a long string of kids considered the best in MN/top players not dominate or show well at NDP - I don't know what that means and they didn't either just their opinion. They said USA hockey is looking for attacking units of 5 and girls need to kind of be able to move and play very well together - have impact in all three zones - make the right play (not try to go coast to coast).

There are lots of changes going on in USA hockey at the National Level - new coaches, resident training for National Team in 2008 and 2009 (at Schwan Super Rink and Herb Brooks Training Center) to prep for Vancouver in 2010. Even some discussion of NTDP type program on girls side (basically what some of the hockey academies have formed to do). Change will be good as it will raise the visibility of the game and because MN has greater numbers than any other state at every level - we should even be able to grow our numbers more - we have the broadest base and biggest pyramid by far but it is a momentum thing you have to always work on growing. We have more programs than others - CODP, OS...maybe we need team development training inside these programs in addition to skills they do today. We have a great HS system heck we have more kids playing HS hockey than total girls playing in all but 2 or 3 states - now how do develop players in a team game better - though watching a HS practice systems seem to be 1/2 or 2/3 of most practices....?

This has all been great discussion and like everything will find a course. Nothing to panic over we all are proud of MN hockey, but this is a view of US hockey and right now only one MN girl is on the list....if the lists continue to look like this why wouldn't more MN girls drift to U19 or leave for hockey schools and leave MN HS hockey - losing the best would repeat what boys HS hockey has been fighting...I don't think anyone wants to see MN HS hockey get weaker - so how do we make it stronger....all good input thanks for sharing:

U18 Team
Home State Team/School 2008
D AK AK-North Stars U19
F AZ CO-Colorado Select U19
G IL IL -Mission U19
D IL IL -Mission U19
F IL IL -Mission U19
D Mass Mass-Assabet U19
F Mass Mass-Assabet U19
F TX Mass-Assabet U19
G NH Mass-Cushing Prep School
D Mass Mass-Noble Prep School
F VT Mass-Shamrocks U19
F MI MI-Little Caesers U19
F MI MI-Little Caesers U19
F MN MN-Irondale HS
D MO MN-SSM U19
F WI MN-SSM U19
D NJ NJ-Rockets U19
D OH NY-Northwood Prep School
F NJ Vt-NAHA U19
F NY Vt-NAHA U19
F WI WI-Capitals U19 (heading to SSM?)
G WI WI-Midget Admirals - boys

[rinkrat90]

Many good points. But the overriding theme regarding MN players is great individual players and not so good at the team game. Again, the disadvantage is that players are going from HS (individual play rewarded/encouraged) to Off-season teams (individual play may or may not be stressed) to development camps (individual skills emphasized) to NDP try-outs (individual skills recognized) to National Teams Try-outs (great individual players have to learn the team game). Pretty confusing for the players.

I don't think you can have all these different environments for a player and expect them to play the way a top national player is expected to play. As mentioned in a previous post, the only way to accomplish this is to have the team game with skilled players emphasized on a regular season-long basis; this is not going to happen at the HS level for reasons everyone is fully aware. A player has to be exposed to situations such as passing to an open player many times, for this skill to become second nature.

Don't know if there is a solution in MN. The HS game has many great things going for it, whch again everyone is fully aware of. But producing the type of players that will make national teams is not one of them. And am not suggesting that this should be the HS's goal.

[Melvin44]

I have to disagree and say most Minnesota girls do play as a team. People were saying evaluators were telling coaches that they were looking for players who could carry the puck up the ice, which is not the way, I see how hockey should be played (obviously I don't know hockey)and therefore maybe some of our better girls did not make it to New York. I was told not to mention names so I'll just say a certain Roseville girl (forward) who I feel is one of the best team player's and didn't make the team at U16's. There were also a few U17's who had 30 plus assists in tough conferences not even make it to New York. I'm not saying everyone who made it didn't deserve it. I just feel Minnesota should get more spots.

As far as the Thoroughbred's. Again no offense but I saw 3 or 4 games last year and I didn't like their style of play. They are very talented and are better conditioned than a High School girl but they take way to many penalties and try to intimidate. You even see it at the CODP scrimmages. Of course not the whole team but a few players. Someone also mentioned Shattuck's. I saw them play 3 or 4 times and love the way they play. The only problem is you pay $30,000 to attend and for that I could hire 2 personal hockey instructors or pay for college. In my opinion they get some of the best players from all over the country which is ok and should send 2 girls every year. Let me say again at least 3 or 4 Minnesota girls will be on the next team.

This past summer we had 3 or 4 Minnesota teams play Canada's Reese’s Pieces to very close games and also win a few games and I think they had quite a few Canadian National team players?

Last but not least remember the 2nd best hockey movie of all time. Miracle. Even Herbie didn't take all of the best players. He took kids who he either knew or felt could get it done. Who did Mr. Johnson play for? Please don't answer Wisconsin!

WE"LL BE FINE!

[hockeyrube7]

Nice try Melvin. We will have to just agree to disagree. I think Fingals comments were right on the subject. MN is completely about rewarding the individual (elite) player well beyond what is necessary, masking the true player that makes that player even look better. My guess, for what it is worth, your daughter is in that group of "Elite" players, and gets highlighted. No offense if she is not just a guess, but the "Elite" kids parents generally give the same response you just gave. For what it's worth, in the past, I have heard it from college coaches them selves, "What is it about MN, they send us these talented kids, yet they can't play with our team."

[joehockey]

Nice try Melvin. We will have to just agree to disagree. I think Fingals comments were right on the subject. MN is completely about rewarding the individual (elite) player well beyond what is necessary, masking the true player that makes that player even look better. My guess, for what it is worth, your daughter is in that group of "Elite" players, and gets highlighted. No offense if she is not just a guess, but the "Elite" kids parents generally give the same response you just gave. For what it's worth, in the past, I have heard it from college coaches them selves, "What is it about MN, they send us these talented kids, yet they can't play with our team."

Great stuff...my sense is lets stay on "is there a way to make MN Girls Hockey better".....

The latest "Lets Play Hockey" has an article with the headline something like "Minnesota has 11 or 64 Players on the National Teams (U18, U22, O22)".....so is that pretty good when you look again at our youth base, number playing HS and number going to D1 schools to play (we lead in all categories)? Don't College coaches recruit MN kids more than any other US states? So we are fine just what does the next level look like - we have made tremendous strides in 10 years but so have other states - girls hockey at youth, HS/U19, college or National Team is way ahead of 10 years ago - but looking at the numbers we are below want I think we are below what we could obtain - so how do we improve each level to result in a percentage equal to or above the percentages - keep the rend lines going up?

IMO (which may not carry a lot) Melvin does have a very top/talented daughter who works hard at the game and is a tremendous team player moving the puck quickly to team mates this thread has had some very good players comment and some average players but all should be sharing thier perspective......Not sure that is the issue this is not a single kid, team, parent or coach issue or it would be easy to solve right? Do we play to much structured hockey here vs pond hockey and 3x3 that force not all good individual skills but great give and go and support play? We probably have more out door ice than every other major state so although the rinks aren't over loaded not sure if that is the issue?

So each level will have good-great and maybe elite players - someone on the forum defined "elite" - ".....is probably only the 64 at National Camp as deemed by USA Hockey". Every hockey team will have a group of different players who do things better or different than others. My question is what is the development process that raises the level of girls play at each level - there will still be the same number of players (same number on varisty and same quota as given by USA hockey that can go to NDP or even same 64 max that could make the National Team - everyone can't) but how do you raise the over all quality. Some of the girls in Lake Placid followed a boys track. Today that probably isn't as needed especially in MN but that is pretty elite in my mind when you are a leading scorer on your boys Bantam team playing for the National Championship like Ms. Kessel did in WI or like Ms. Pulkey has done in VT. Maybe more intermixing of girls and boys makes sense in development - watching some combined drill sets in Woodbury I don't think I have either seen the boys or the girls work harder to compete.

All good stuff.....

[keepitreal]

Great discussion. I want to say I'm grateful that my daughters have had the opportunity to experience hockey in general and as a high school varsity sport -- something that didn't exist not so long ago.

As I said in the other thread and others have noted here, our high school hockey system is a double-edged sword for elite development. With more teams (MN high school vs other states club), many desperate for players of nearly any skill level, it creates the opportunity for all but also dilutes the overall competitive caliber. And when winning is the objective, it's no surprise the team game can easily devolve into a sport that can be dominated by the top players (though not as easily as in the past). The solutions to this are either fewer teams (undesirable) or raising the caliber of play to force team fundamentals (how?).

Underlying this, can you compare the average high school team with its wide assortment of player skills, motivation levels and commitment over a span of 3 months and 24 games, to a hand-selected team of highly motivated players with complementary skill levels 20-deep, playing at a higher competition level over a 5-6 month span of 60 games?

All this is NOT to criticize the high school game. Honestly. We're really talking about the needs of a handful of gifted players within the context of thousands who benefit from playing on their high school teams. But an equally honest examination of this development environment creates some question about the sustainability of Minnesota high schools to deliver players who will excel at the highest level.

It's plainly obvious to the top players in this state that the vast majority cannot rely 100% on the high school environment to develop. That's the reason we must have strong, sanctioned B&A opportunities that bring the best players under one roof, as well as a concerted effort to elevate off-season training and development using the resources of national level coaches and current and former national players who understand the expectations of the international level. Thankfully we have these resources and from the looks of it, it's beginning now.

Although I'm often critical of Minnesota Hockey, I believe they understand this issue and we are seeing the early stages of programs that will give the top players what they need, while protecting the high school system with the MSHSL. A delicate balance no other state has to deal with for the most part. Because we have such an inclusive hockey environment, this might come under fire as being elitist--but at the national level, that my friends, is the point. This is simply the direction we must go and as the saying goes, a rising tide raises all the boats (or something like that... )

Bottom line, I think we're going to be fine now that some attention has been turned to the girls game. Beyond this, the key will be what we do at the girls youth level to raise the bar... a topic for another day.

[MNHockeyFan]

keepitreal, another great post and I couldn't agree more with everything you said.

If I could add one thing it would be that even with the development of all the off-season opportunities that the more dedicated/serious girls have had up until this point, there seems to be a lack of real good on-ice teaching of the finer skill points of the game. The main camp-type instruction settings like CODP and Os emphasize fast-paced drills which are great but I think there is still room for more individual hands-on mentoring and working with girls to improve the areas that need more work. For many players this means playing/positioning without the puck. Others need work on seeing the ice better and moving the puck quicker and more accurately, at least in game-type situations (it's so much easier to look good in the typical drills coaches like to run).

I think it would really help if more individualized, hands-on instruction could be made available to teach more advanced skill sets in real-life game situations. This would involve having more knowledgeable coaches on the ice, including some still young and good enough to demonstrate how to do things better.

You think about all of the off-season AAA games and tournaments the girls play in over the years, all the camp/practice sessions they attend, and then consider how little individual teaching actually takes place, and it makes you realize how much better things could be.

Like keepitreal I am optimistic that things are headed in the right direction, and it appears that both the Midwest Girls Elite League and MGHCA Fall Development League are important steps in the right direction.

[hockeyrube7]

Nice posts everyone, and way to nail it Keepit!! I think the best way to solve anything is the sport needs a figure head, or a "poster child" so to speak. The biggest problem here is that all of us as parents can see the problems as we move through these things, yet are truly only pationate about the age group our kids are at. Nothing wrong with that, but like Keepit says this starts at the youth levels, and we all tend to abandon those once we move on. Too bad over all, but it would be great to see a few step up and get the youth straight as well as the HS, and the two could work better together maybe.

[Hux]

I think it would really help if more individualized, hands-on instruction could be made available to teach more advanced skill sets in real-life game situations. This would involve having more knowledgeable coaches on the ice, including some still young and good enough to demonstrate how to do things better.

You think about all of the off-season AAA games and tournaments the girls play in over the years, all the camp/practice sessions they attend, and then consider how little individual teaching actually takes place, and it makes you realize how much better things could be.

Like keepitreal I am optimistic that things are headed in the right direction, and it appears that both the Midwest Girls Elite League and MGHCA Fall Development League are important steps in the right direction.

The answer to the question is right there. Too much emphasis on being "seen" and not enough emphasis on complete player development that will ultimately get you "seen." How many "elite" players bail out of CODP or OS to do the AAA thing at the time in their development that is most critical. You have kids who have developed their athletic abilities to the point that they are in an upper tier, but still lack in the areas of game sense; of tactical knowledge. Without consistent practices designed to emphasize the development of game sense, i.e. Small Area Games, or games where there is no emphasis on stats and individual play but on creative team play, further advanced development is stagnant or moderate at best.

[joehockey]

I think it would really help if more individualized, hands-on instruction could be made available to teach more advanced skill sets in real-life game situations. This would involve having more knowledgeable coaches on the ice, including some still young and good enough to demonstrate how to do things better.

You think about all of the off-season AAA games and tournaments the girls play in over the years, all the camp/practice sessions they attend, and then consider how little individual teaching actually takes place, and it makes you realize how much better things could be.

Like keepitreal I am optimistic that things are headed in the right direction, and it appears that both the Midwest Girls Elite League and MGHCA Fall Development League are important steps in the right direction.

The answer to the question is right there. Too much emphasis on being "seen" and not enough emphasis on complete player development that will ultimately get you "seen." How many "elite" players bail out of CODP or OS to do the AAA thing at the time in their development that is most critical. You have kids who have developed their athletic abilities to the point that they are in an upper tier, but still lack in the areas of game sense; of tactical knowledge. Without consistent practices designed to emphasize the development of game sense, i.e. Small Area Games, or games where there is no emphasis on stats and individual play but on creative team play, further advanced development is stagnant or moderate at best.

Great discussion and the HS Leagues this fall should have some interactive tactical coaching which is great - it will bring together talented kids with non-parent coaches who know the game.

Like everything there is lots of definitions - there are showcase tournaments, there is for profit Showcase AAA hockey, there are many tournaments and teams. There are some very good AAA teams with top talent and a development focus (IceCats, Jr. WhiteCaps, St. Croix Saints.....) and Leagues like Two Nations that are providing superior/ better competition than HS. Kids are in all of these for many reasons some good.

I have a daughter who is a 5 year participant in CODP and OS. Both programs are outstanding - neither gets very far past drills - there does not really tactical game coaching but I am not on the ice or in the bench. There is a basic problem that CODP and maybe OS (this group is keeping older HS players it appears) will have to address for at least the Jr and Sr and maybe Sophmores - because kids who don't feel they are going to play college drop out just to have fun or be kids in the summer and the ones who want to are not concentrated together......both programs are great but they have split the limited top talent pool between the two programs.

CODP runs spring prep sessions for NDP that are incredible - the top players are there pace is intense and appears there is some coaching on tactical knowledge. When summer CODP starts there is only one Elite group the College Group. The Elite group at least at Highland had 7th graders in the top group for car pooling and the scrimmage teams were not a lot different on Sunday way to wide of talent spread - great if you are in bottom half slow hockey for the top of the group. The sessions are good rote overspeed training and flow drills - in fact best in Minnesota. So girls have come from a high paced 3x3 session at Velocity or a AAA tournament or League maybe Two Nations and say this isn't good - but if you are entering the program it is great better than what you did in assoc or at most all HS. CODP is really focused on the program and kids have to commit to the program - all great but kids don't always buy in.

OS Prospect Group is meant to get girls in front of college coaches but again extremely good concentration of talent and competition. OS runs a D1 and D3 program also. I think because they have a number of former players that offer/share a lot of small tips and they are very current on coaching - kind on the front edge. The OS program appears very focused on the individual kid.

I hope and think CODP and OS are following this and I would expect to see a little more in the way of a ladder system return. But again combined they have 500 girls U12-College doing great summer training so a great training option if you are in the metro area.

[joehockey]

So I just returned from NAHA Labor Day Tournament in Burlington, VT. It was a tremendous collection of hockey players - teams had girls from '89 to '93. A total of 28 teams were invited from the East, Midwest and Canada. Every D1 and D3 program was there scouting. All kinds of hockey people like Hux who many know, read and respect were there to watch.

MN had 4 teams who competed and here were their records (can’t find a final complete results)
- Jr. WhiteCaps 5-1 finished 9th - didn't make medal round of 8
- Press Ice Cats not sure 3-3 might have been 4-2
- MN Crunch 1-4-1 (CORRECTED)
- Walser 1-5


It was a great chance to talk to a lot of people about MN hockey and exchange ideas. Here are some things I heard discussed and proposed:

1) HS Program - many parents outside of MN are traveling their kids 1-2 hours to play elite hockey at big expense most were intrigued and envious of our HS systems.
2) Phase Tryouts for NDP - outside of MN they were amazed at the number of kids who can and do tryout and the process now being used to evaluate kids - most of them have a single one or two day workout that either have 90 kids on the ice or never see all the kids. I guess if you want to tryout start talking to your HS coach now but we are far ahead of other parts of the country - we have a higher turn over of players year to year than other states also.
3) CODP/OS/STP - these types of programs seem unique to MN - many areas of the country don't have ice in the summer.
4) Elite HS League - this was a unique league to most there - the concpet of HS kids playing SSM and in future years other top U19AAA Guest teams (maybe Balmoral Hall, Madison Capitals, Wisconsin Wild, Little Caesars......) was impressive to all.
Year 1 - 60 kids (2 metro, 1 outstate) + SSM
Year 2 - 80 kids (3 metro, 1 outstate) + SSM + Guest
Year 3 - 100 kids (5 teams) + SSM + 2 Guest
5) Minnesota Girls Hockey Coaches Association League – again another great concept with no equal.
6) Most want to know why others in MN are not allowed to compete for USA Hockey National Tournament - to bad we can't continue the Before and After concept - maybe something can come out of Elite HS League?
7) Crunch - this new post grad concept appears to be unique and only done in MN?
Youth Hockey - many other areas of the country have girls able to play both youth and girls hockey - when you talk to some people in hockey MN may be hurting our girls in that most never pick up the things you do in boys/youth hockey because they only play on girls teams - in other areas top girls are playing a lot with boys teams and with girls teams.
9)Big Tournament - as a MN community we have no tournament equal that draws all the schools like NAHA did - I understand the Stoney Creek and CT Polar Bear are similar in the number of coaches/schools scouting. Edina, Schwan and Kaposia Holiday Tournament and the State Tournament are a draw. Those in hockey here in MN need to help retool International Cup or form a new strong tournament. Top Teams from California, western Canada and Colorado flew over MN to play out east.

So in the Land of 10,000 Pucks we have a lot of good things going for the girls in the game thanks to efforts of MN Hockey, the HS coaches, people like Lenny Vannelle with CODP and Winny Brodt with OS. We just need to keep making opportunities for more girls to play and for ongoing development to teach skills and game tactics from Beginners to Elite to give girls from MN the greatest opportunities. This Forum is a key way to help exchange ideas – we have many “Good” things the question is how do we continue the march to “Great”.

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Crunch were actualy 1- 4and 1 for the weekend 3 of the teams in the championship bracket came out of our bracket.