Minnesota Made Ice Center

[muckandgrind]

I'm new to this forum, but after reading some of the posts in this thread I felt like I needed to join the fray.

First, I think the people criticizing DuckDuckQuackQuack are coming off as EXTREMELY judgemental. I am a parent of two boys who both play association hockey in the winter and AAA in the summer. My older son has told me on multiple occassions that he has more fun playing hockey in the summer than he does in the winter. Why is that? Kids are alot more perceptive than some around here believe.

AAA hockey is not for everyone, I understand that. Many families don't want to, or can't committ the amount of $$ and time associated with playing hockey in the summer. They would rather spend more time at the cabin or have little Johnny and Janey play other sports in the summer. All legitimate reasons and I wouldn't dream of telling them otherwise.

One of the biggest attacks used by the "AAA-Haters" are them insinuating that parents who have their kids play AAA somehow believe that their kids are "super stars" or wish to turn them into a superstar. That bogus, IMO. Many kids and parents are just looking for additional options and/or opportunities to help them grow as hockey players while still having fun.

It's my belief that kids who have the passion and desire to play hockey year round should be encouraged to do so. Do we tell people who play instruments that they shouldn't play year round because they will get "burned out"? Of course not!! If they have the desire, we encourage them. Not discourage them. I think most of the burn out comes from the parents and not the kids.

Do we criticize kids who play soccer year round? How about basketball? That's turned into a year round sport. Baseball have fall schedules and run clinics during the winter months. But for some reason, there has been this belief perpetuated that kids should only play hockey during the "hockey season" or you run the risk of them burning out. Sure, some kids do, in fact, burn out. But it's your job as a parent to look for the signs. It's not your job to tell everyone else what the "right" way or the "wrong" way of doing things are.

And for those who think that kids don't improve their skills playing AAA aren't paying attention. My older son shows more improvement after a summer of playing hockey than he does in the spring after playing association hockey. It's my belief that the reason for that is that he gets better coaching in the summer.

The are alot more opportunities for kids today than there were when I played the game. We have more camps, clinics and leagues for all sorts of players than ever before. Personally, I think that's a great thing.

[Can't Never Tried]

I'm new to this forum, but after reading some of the posts in this thread I felt like I needed to join the fray.

First, I think the people criticizing DuckDuckQuackQuack are coming off as EXTREMELY judgemental. I am a parent of two boys who both play association hockey in the winter and AAA in the summer. My older son has told me on multiple occassions that he has more fun playing hockey in the summer than he does in the winter. Why is that? Kids are alot more perceptive than some around here believe.

AAA hockey is not for everyone, I understand that. Many families don't want to, or can't committ the amount of $$ and time associated with playing hockey in the summer. They would rather spend more time at the cabin or have little Johnny and Janey play other sports in the summer. All legitimate reasons and I wouldn't dream of telling them otherwise.

One of the biggest attacks used by the "AAA-Haters" are them insinuating that parents who have their kids play AAA somehow believe that their kids are "super stars" or wish to turn them into a superstar. That bogus, IMO. Many kids and parents are just looking for additional options and/or opportunities to help them grow as hockey players while still having fun.

It's my belief that kids who have the passion and desire to play hockey year round should be encouraged to do so. Do we tell people who play instruments that they shouldn't play year round because they will get "burned out"? Of course not!! If they have the desire, we encourage them. Not discourage them. I think most of the burn out comes from the parents and not the kids.

Do we criticize kids who play soccer year round? How about basketball? That's turned into a year round sport. Baseball have fall schedules and run clinics during the winter months. But for some reason, there has been this belief perpetuated that kids should only play hockey during the "hockey season" or you run the risk of them burning out. Sure, some kids do, in fact, burn out. But it's your job as a parent to look for the signs. It's not your job to tell everyone else what the "right" way or the "wrong" way of doing things are.

And for those who think that kids don't improve their skills playing AAA aren't paying attention. My older son shows more improvement after a summer of playing hockey than he does in the spring after playing association hockey. It's my belief that the reason for that is that he gets better coaching in the summer.

The are alot more opportunities for kids today than there were when I played the game. We have more camps, clinics and leagues for all sorts of players than ever before. Personally, I think that's a great thing.

That's great but it has nothing to do with the quack

[SuperStar]

My kid evens plays "Xbox" year round...Matter of fact he can play 10 hours of Halo 2 every weekend and never gets burnout...

He can ride his bike all day during the summer too...Never gets burned out.

He can sleep 8-12 hours a day - Never gets burned out of..

I think if we really add up the actually hours in one year compared to the time they put into hockey - its very minimal...Lets see there are 24 hours in a day x 365 days = 8,760 hours in a year.....

Winter and off-season hockey (for my kid) is about 200 hours a year. 200 divided by 8,760 equals about 0.02% of his time...

I agree - most of the burnout is parent induced...

[muckandgrind]

Nobody has the magic formula.

I had someone say I'm going to burn my kid out too. The fact of the matter is it's always on my mind and it worries me (sometimes).

No one has the answer as every kid is different and every kids on ice experience will be different.

Parents normally (NORMALLY) know what's best for their kids.

Bingo!!

As parents, it's our responsibility to monitor our kids and if we feel they are starting to hit that burn out point, then we need to pull in the reins a little bit.

Every kid is different. I have two boys, and they are very different from each other when it comes to their passion for hockey. My older son would skate every day if possible. My younger son loves the game, but doesn't have the passion of his older brother, and while he also plays AAA in the summer, he plays on a team that doesn't require the level of committment in time as some do. This allows him to focus on other things during the summer, which is great for him...and my checkbook.

The last thing I would ever do is tell another parent that they are in danger of burning their son out. They should know their kids better than I.

[DMom]

I'm new to this forum, but after reading some of the posts in this thread I felt like I needed to join the fray.

First, I think the people criticizing DuckDuckQuackQuack are coming off as EXTREMELY judgemental. I am a parent of two boys who both play association hockey in the winter and AAA in the summer. My older son has told me on multiple occassions that he has more fun playing hockey in the summer than he does in the winter. Why is that? Kids are alot more perceptive than some around here believe.

AAA hockey is not for everyone, I understand that. Many families don't want to, or can't committ the amount of $$ and time associated with playing hockey in the summer. They would rather spend more time at the cabin or have little Johnny and Janey play other sports in the summer. All legitimate reasons and I wouldn't dream of telling them otherwise.

One of the biggest attacks used by the "AAA-Haters" are them insinuating that parents who have their kids play AAA somehow believe that their kids are "super stars" or wish to turn them into a superstar. That bogus, IMO. Many kids and parents are just looking for additional options and/or opportunities to help them grow as hockey players while still having fun.

It's my belief that kids who have the passion and desire to play hockey year round should be encouraged to do so. Do we tell people who play instruments that they shouldn't play year round because they will get "burned out"? Of course not!! If they have the desire, we encourage them. Not discourage them. I think most of the burn out comes from the parents and not the kids.

Do we criticize kids who play soccer year round? How about basketball? That's turned into a year round sport. Baseball have fall schedules and run clinics during the winter months. But for some reason, there has been this belief perpetuated that kids should only play hockey during the "hockey season" or you run the risk of them burning out. Sure, some kids do, in fact, burn out. But it's your job as a parent to look for the signs. It's not your job to tell everyone else what the "right" way or the "wrong" way of doing things are.

And for those who think that kids don't improve their skills playing AAA aren't paying attention. My older son shows more improvement after a summer of playing hockey than he does in the spring after playing association hockey. It's my belief that the reason for that is that he gets better coaching in the summer.

The are alot more opportunities for kids today than there were when I played the game. We have more camps, clinics and leagues for all sorts of players than ever before. Personally, I think that's a great thing.

That's great but it has nothing to do with the quack

Just as the quack has nothing to do with Minnesota Made, except that he has a son who skates on one of the teams. As far as we know he is not the owner, nor a shareholder so he really doesn't represent MM.

[muckandgrind]

I know at least two WCHA coaches who's young kids play tons of hockey. One's a 2000 and the other is a 1998 birth year. This doesn't make it right but as D-1 coaches you would think they are in the know.

Exactly. I know Mike Guentzel's son plays for the Blades. Heck, Troy Jutting (coach of Minnesota State - Mankato) even COACHES the 97 Blades.

I think a lot of families who are unsatisfied with the local associations turn to summer hockey to develop their skaters in a way that it isn't being done during the winter. Not everyone is fortunate enough to play for well-run associations like Edina, Duluth, Roseau, GR, etc.

[edgeUcated]

I have heard both sides of the argument, but I have say, I don’t think year-round AAA hockey is the best thing for this state. There was an article in USA Hockey mag a few months back that really pointed out the pitfalls of AAA/Club hockey. Right now we (Minnesotan’s) have the luxury of driving 20mins for a quality game against a rival association (at least metro cities). If AAA takes over for Association hockey, you will now have to drive 2-4 hours just for a league game. And not to be mention where the practices of these community-blended teams will be. Face it, you can only have about 3-4 top caliber teams at each birth date level spread through out the state…..No doubt about it the association have to pick up the quality of coaching, but with effort that can be done. AAA folks just be careful what you wish for – hockey will become only for the privileged and one-parent working household. Just talk to a few folks from out east and how they spend their weekend driving 4hrs to and from league games. And they are surrounded by a dense population and neighboring states—unlike the Dakota’s, Iowa, and Wisconsin (now populated by MN kids that fake a team from Wisconny)

I, for one, look forward to the day when AAA hockey goes year-round in Minnesota. I have read blurbs advising people to stay and "fix" their associations, but many associations can't be "fixed" to offer the programs that a MM offers. MM and many of the burgeoning Independent AAA programs are offering a higher caliber of hockey development, which can't be replicated in association hockey. Why? Money.

Parents who write the checks to MM and/or Independent AAA programs expect more from MM and AAA programs than from their local associations. If MM or the AAA program doesn't offer quality programs, parents vote with their checkbook. In association hockey you don't have that option. You are a captive member. Unless you move, you can't vote with your feet or checkbook. Instead, you are stuck with a group of people--some of whom want to punish young kids for skating in Bernie's Choice mite or squirt programs--who don't share your passion for development. Frankly, the reason my son isn't going to skate in Bernie's squirt league is because I know that my son will be punished if he returns to the local association as a Peewee.

Because of Bernie, several Minnesota Independent AAA programs are considering going year-round. Hats off to Bernie for having the courage to push the envelope and own and grow a business that challenges the status quo. You don't have to like the guy, but you do have to admire Bernie for taking a huge financial risk. Face it, most of the Bernie bashers would love to own their own arena and come up with a similar business plan that lines their respective pockets with greenbacks while teaching kids to play hockey. Those same Bernie bashers are more than willing to punish a young kid who has the audacity to skate elsewhere. How revealing!

[O-townClown]

The comments about burnout are interesting. I think the term is actually a blanket word for many things. Some kids start going through the motions at later ages and get passed over. They probably are the ones that would have been passed over anyway.

I look at it this way. Each kid has a certain amount of potential. The easiest way to reach it at any age would be to play a ton as a Mite and hit your potential at age 8. Of course, it really doesn't matter how good someone is when they are 8.

If you are one of those blessed to have a high ceiling at age 14 or 18 it is important to still be playing at that age. Best not to run a kid off earlier. Didn't someone say Jake Gardiner wasn't on the Select 16 team two years ago? Because he didn't wash out at age 9 or 11 he was still in the mix to improve as a HS player.

I have no idea if I'm right about this. Just my hunch. I never burned out as a player, but I also probably never played more than 50 games in a year either. Nearly all within 20 minutes of my bed.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

I'm new to this forum, but after reading some of the posts in this thread I felt like I needed to join the fray.

First, I think the people criticizing DuckDuckQuackQuack are coming off as EXTREMELY judgemental. I am a parent of two boys who both play association hockey in the winter and AAA in the summer. My older son has told me on multiple occassions that he has more fun playing hockey in the summer than he does in the winter. Why is that? Kids are alot more perceptive than some around here believe.

AAA hockey is not for everyone, I understand that. Many families don't want to, or can't committ the amount of $$ and time associated with playing hockey in the summer. They would rather spend more time at the cabin or have little Johnny and Janey play other sports in the summer. All legitimate reasons and I wouldn't dream of telling them otherwise.

One of the biggest attacks used by the "AAA-Haters" are them insinuating that parents who have their kids play AAA somehow believe that their kids are "super stars" or wish to turn them into a superstar. That bogus, IMO. Many kids and parents are just looking for additional options and/or opportunities to help them grow as hockey players while still having fun.

It's my belief that kids who have the passion and desire to play hockey year round should be encouraged to do so. Do we tell people who play instruments that they shouldn't play year round because they will get "burned out"? Of course not!! If they have the desire, we encourage them. Not discourage them. I think most of the burn out comes from the parents and not the kids.

Do we criticize kids who play soccer year round? How about basketball? That's turned into a year round sport. Baseball have fall schedules and run clinics during the winter months. But for some reason, there has been this belief perpetuated that kids should only play hockey during the "hockey season" or you run the risk of them burning out. Sure, some kids do, in fact, burn out. But it's your job as a parent to look for the signs. It's not your job to tell everyone else what the "right" way or the "wrong" way of doing things are.

And for those who think that kids don't improve their skills playing AAA aren't paying attention. My older son shows more improvement after a summer of playing hockey than he does in the spring after playing association hockey. It's my belief that the reason for that is that he gets better coaching in the summer.

The are alot more opportunities for kids today than there were when I played the game. We have more camps, clinics and leagues for all sorts of players than ever before. Personally, I think that's a great thing.

MuckandGrind- Great post! What works for some will not work for others. It is the parents responsibility to make sure the kids don't get burnt out in anything they do. To each his own.

Good luck!

[top_shelfer]

Choice League vs Association Squirt League

After taking a look at the brochure, it appears Choice League is about development...a lot of skating drills, edgework, and stickhandling. It says there will be games but that doesn't appear to be the focus.

Association hockey, from what we have experienced, is ranking players/forming teams according to skill set and then focusing on some skills and some plays to further develop its team. Focus tends to be on the games and tournaments.

Why would an association penalize a player for spending a year developing his/her skills by choosing Choice League? The association is going to benefit by having a stronger player. Maybe the Choice League kid isn't the super star after all and needs further help. Many kids that we know skate with Karns or with other programs before school. Isn't this somewhat the same thing?

[10ouncepuck]

Choice League vs Association Squirt League

Why would an association penalize a player for spending a year developing his/her skills by choosing Choice League? The association is going to benefit by having a stronger player. Maybe the Choice League kid isn't the super star after all and needs further help. Many kids that we know skate with Karns or with other programs before school. Isn't this somewhat the same thing?

No. Some association folks view it as primarily a 'loyalty' issue and the loyalty argument can be very complex. MM is also not immune from loyalty issues. The bottom line for both is $.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Choice League vs Association Squirt League

After taking a look at the brochure, it appears Choice League is about development...a lot of skating drills, edgework, and stickhandling. It says there will be games but that doesn't appear to be the focus.

Association hockey, from what we have experienced, is ranking players/forming teams according to skill set and then focusing on some skills and some plays to further develop its team. Focus tends to be on the games and tournaments.

Why would an association penalize a player for spending a year developing his/her skills by choosing Choice League? The association is going to benefit by having a stronger player. Maybe the Choice League kid isn't the super star after all and needs further help. Many kids that we know skate with Karns or with other programs before school. Isn't this somewhat the same thing?

Development is development. Karns does a great job. One thing to keep in mind about Minnesota made is that it's very convenient. I'm not trying to disagree with you. To each his own..... My son played in the Choice Mite league last year. By the end of August Minnesota made sent us our schedule for the winter season. Association hockey is just finalizing their tryout dates.

At Minnesota made we skated three times a week. We started skating on October 1st through mid march. The weekdays would rotate each week and we'd play games on Saturdays that we all done by Noon and on Sunday the practices were scheduled after noon so families can go to church. The beauty of this was the fact that we skated at the same complex every single ice time.
As for penalizing players for leaving the association. Why? They will come back better players. 100% guaranteed! Not sure if the associations should have the right to make such rules?
It all comes down to what's best for your family. Minnesota made was extremely convenient last year.

[10ouncepuck]

100% guaranteed!

Quacker - Nothings a 100% guaranteed, but rather a 100% guaranteed "risk".

[muckandgrind]

100% guaranteed!

Quacker - Nothings a 100% gauranteed, but rather a 100% guaranteed "risk".

You're right that nothings "guaranteed"....but if your association pays very little attention to proper skill-development, and if you send your player to a place where they DO pay attention to it, the odds of that player returns as a better developed player are a lot better than not.

[10ouncepuck]

There are many other options for "development".
Ultimately, in the long run it won't matter.

[muckandgrind]

There are many other options for "development".
Ultimately, in the long run it won't matter.

Depends on what you mean by the "long run". For most kids (including mine), the "long run" means high school hockey. And in that case, it DOES matter.

Of course, there are many options for developing players in the summer...in the winter you need to look a little harder to find them. My gut says that in the future it will become easier to find winter opportunities for development outside of association hockey.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

There are many other options for "development".
Ultimately, in the long run it won't matter.

Depends on what you mean by the "long run". For most kids (including mine), the "long run" means high school hockey. And in that case, it DOES matter.

Of course, there are many options for developing players in the summer...in the winter you need to look a little harder to find them. My gut says that in the future it will become easier to find winter opportunities for development outside of association hockey.

Muckandgrind is completely right. There will be more opportunities for kids to play in other programs versus their association. Right or wrong it gives people choices to do what's best for their families.

As for guaranteed development. Lets see!

Minnesota made Choice Mites skate 100 hours last winter and the kids had to tryout to make a team versus skating 40 hours in your local association skating with kids all over the talent pool. Yes! I can promise you the kids will learn more. Here is why:

1) Kids will be playing with kids in the same talent pool if not better.

2) Kids will be receiving 60 more hours of ice time. (this alone is the main reason)

3) Kids will be learning how to skate through repetition, repetition, repetition. (another great learning tool)

4) All the teams will be using the same practice drills each practice.

[thunderwolf]

Muckandgrind is completely right. There will be more opportunities for kids to play in other programs versus their association. Right or wrong it gives people choices to do what's best for their families.

As for guaranteed development. Lets see!

Minnesota made Choice Mites skate 100 hours last winter and the kids had to tryout to make a team versus skating 40 hours in your local association skating with kids all over the talent pool. Yes! I can promise you the kids will learn more. Here is why:

1) Kids will be playing with kids in the same talent pool if not better.

2) Kids will be receiving 60 more hours of ice time. (this alone is the main reason)

3) Kids will be learning how to skate through repetition, repetition, repetition. (another great learning tool)

4) All the teams will be using the same practice drills each practice.

Only a good tool if taught properly. Remember practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

[muckandgrind]

It all comes down to how well your local association is run and how good of a job they do at developing players. If you think everything is peaches and cream where you play, then there is no reason to look elsewhere.

But there are many who aren't so fortunate to live in a community with a quality youth hocky association. For them, MM is a good alternative.