Mn Hockey Fall Meeting

[punchinbag]

CMR,

I agree with you on the new MH Executive Director and have high hopes but...typically if you butt heads with the people that hired you, they also end up being the people that fired you.

I guess we will wait to see if they "cut the strings" on the new puppet. Hopeful, but doubtful as long as we have a self sustaining Ex. Board.

[High Flyer]

I don't agree with Mark on some issues (e.g., year-round AAA hockey, the private school issue, the ability to choose where you play hockey and the opinion that Minnesota Hockey has a monopoly that is immune from Antitrust laws), but I firmly believe he volunteers his time for the right reason.

USA Hockey (through it's affilate agreement with MH) is not immune from the antitrust laws, it's just that no one has challenge them yet.

[Puckguy19]

Did MH respond to you or are you also on the board of MH Hockey?

I think the new executive director of MH is going to do great things for our youth hockey. I am thrilled we got em. He will not be a puppet of the "old school" and I believe he will on his own seek out the customers and hear their concerns and ideas. This one they nailed right on.

I am slightly more cautious in my optimism, but certainly wish Mike well.

[Ontheice]

Did MH respond to you or are you also on the board of MH Hockey?

I think the new executive director of MH is going to do great things for our youth hockey. I am thrilled we got em. He will not be a puppet of the "old school" and I believe he will on his own seek out the customers and hear their concerns and ideas. This one they nailed right on.

I am slightly more cautious in my optimism, but certainly wish Mike well.

I would like to say that I received responses quite promptly by both Mike and our district director and am also optimistic.

[hockey_is_a_choice]

USA Hockey (through its affiliate agreement with MH) is not immune from the antitrust laws, it's just that no one has challenge them yet.

High Flyer,

You and I are in absolute agreement. The problem is finding the stalking horse to serve as the plaintiff in an action against MH to challenge MH's monopolistic actions. Few--if any--of us are willing to offer up our little Susie or Johnnie as a sacrificial lamb to challenge MH's actions, which, to date, have kept year-round AAA hockey or private school affiliates at bay.

Article 6 of the MH Bylaws provides, in pertinent part:

ARTICLE 6 - AUTHORITY - APPEALS - SUSPENSIONS - COURT ACTIONS

I. Court Actions: Any recourse to the courts of any jurisdiction by any member or individual before all of the rights and remedies available under the Articles and By-Laws of this association have been exhausted, shall be deemed conduct detrimental to the best interests of hockey and a violation of the Articles and By-Laws of this association and USA Hockey and therefore grounds for suspension and or expulsion pursuant to the provisions of this Article.

In my humble opinion, there are good public policy and legal arguments why a court should not enforce this provision. In a nutshell, on its face, this provision could be interpreted to allow MH or USA Hockey to expel a member or individual for exercising his or her legal rights if he or she didn't exhaust MH's grievance process and ask MH to rule that MH was violating antitrust laws. (This is akin to a criminal defendant granting to himself the power to determine whether he is guilty of murder.) Further, I'm not entirely convinced this provision is applicable to a plaintiff who brings an action against MH based on antitrust violations.

But, until a stalking horse comes forward, we'll never know the extent of MH's legal powers to restrain (or prohibit) competing programs in this State. In the interim, I suspect MH will continue to assume that it is the ultimate gatekeeper when it comes to determining who is and who is not granted affiliate status and the right to organize USA Hockey sanctioned teams in this State.

[HockeyFan55]

MN Hockey is the exclusive affiliate of USA Hockey in the state of Minnesota.

USA Hockey is the exclusive affiliate of the International Ice Hockey Federation in the US.

Not being an affiliate of this trio does not stop you from playing hockey. Whether you are a private school or a AAA team, nothing is stopping you from creating your own league.

The benefits: No waivers, your own rules, you can play in both

The drawbacks: Can't go to Nationals (can't anyway), can't play a USA Hockey team (don't need them if you have enough in your own league), can't play in a sanctioned tournament (have your own).

Why waste money on a lawyer, when you can start your own.....

[punchinbag]

Any news come out of the meeting? Is Elliott still there? I hope, for their sake, that he is.

[Ontheice]

Any news come out of the meeting? Is Elliott still there? I hope, for their sake, that he is.

ditto

[TriedThat2]

What if MN Hockey removes Mr. Elliott. Wouldn't D-16 simply re-elect him as their representative to the Board? MN Hockey could not stop them from that process, and I beleive that the D-16 Board is behind Mark, and wants him there.

[Can't Never Tried]

What if MN Hockey removes Mr. Elliott. Wouldn't D-16 simply re-elect him as their representative to the Board? MN Hockey could not stop them from that process, and I beleive that the D-16 Board is behind Mark, and wants him there.

That would be really funny if that happened
Only a devious mind could come up with that....but I like it!
But now that you've blown the cover off this, they'll probably have some rule to keep him banished for a time period.

That is of course if they had the seeds to remove him.

[Can't Never Tried]

I have another question for those of you that want to go outside the MN hockey umbrella for winter season AAA or T1.

Not that it's bad or good...just something to think about.

Will your kids be able to go to the select festivals or camps for 15's, 16's, 17's for your district/MN Hockey if you play your winter season outside of MN/USA hockey collective?
I believe some districts will not allow players even to the tryouts if you are not playing in your home district or on approved waivers.
I know the one I used to be in doesn't.

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose? If your playing T1 or AAA because you are better then your peers and want to proceed up the ladder, isn't being on these rosters important to the advancement, at least a little?

Or is it straight to Jr's, and those select things don't matter?


Thoughts?

[jancze5]

CNT,

You are assuming that their reason for playing is "because you are better then your peers and want to proceed up the ladder". That's kind of a biased statement that YOU are feeding, not the Tier 1 or AAA players. Why do kids play summer AAA?

Currently in Minnesota, the only authorized/registered Tier 1 affiliate is Shattuck St Mary's. This last spring I believe 7 players made it the final Minnesota 15's group and 1 represented Minnesota at the National camp. So I think that may answer your question in part.

I have one for you though, why would the local district prejudice against a player that lives in their district but plays hockey somewhere else, especially if the player is clearly one of the top 17 at the skate?

Once again we fall into the biased adult political bullshiTT that exists in hockey towards a level of play. It has nothing to do with the players ability, it has ONLY to do with the fact he OPTs to play in another venue. The national development program can gives 2 rats butts as to where a kid lives or plays or whatever, they want the best players to hopefully place a team on the ice at 17/18/+ to represent the United States. I think the only people that care about where you play are right here in the Old boy club.

It's unfortunate it's this way because some kids that work really hard and are in fact solid players will be and have probably been left out due this type of politics.

So CNT, do you have one good reason why these players should be left out?

[Puckguy19]

I have another question for those of you that want to go outside the MN hockey umbrella for winter season AAA or T1.

Not that it's bad or good...just something to think about.

Will your kids be able to go to the select festivals or camps for 15's, 16's, 17's for your district/MN Hockey if you play your winter season outside of MN/USA hockey collective?
I believe some districts will not allow players even to the tryouts if you are not playing in your home district or on approved waivers.
I know the one I used to be in doesn't.

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose? If your playing T1 or AAA because you are better then your peers and want to proceed up the ladder, isn't being on these rosters important to the advancement, at least a little?

Or is it straight to Jr's, and those select things don't matter?


Thoughts?

16's & 17's would be an easier hurdle to clear as 99% are not members of USA Hockey, or MN Hockey, until they need to sign up to participate. It would be a large task to try to discriminate player by player as to whether they had played high school hockey or T1 or AAA. In any case SSM's players are always allowed to participate, so I would think that sets a precedent in some fashion.

[Can't Never Tried]

I have another question for those of you that want to go outside the MN hockey umbrella for winter season AAA or T1.

Not that it's bad or good...just something to think about.

Will your kids be able to go to the select festivals or camps for 15's, 16's, 17's for your district/MN Hockey if you play your winter season outside of MN/USA hockey collective?
I believe some districts will not allow players even to the tryouts if you are not playing in your home district or on approved waivers.
I know the one I used to be in doesn't.

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose? If your playing T1 or AAA because you are better then your peers and want to proceed up the ladder, isn't being on these rosters important to the advancement, at least a little?

Or is it straight to Jr's, and those select things don't matter?


Thoughts?

16's & 17's would be an easier hurdle to clear as 99% are not members of USA Hockey, or MN Hockey, until they need to sign up to participate. It would be a large task to try to discriminate player by player as to whether they had played high school hockey or T1 or AAA. In any case SSM's players are always allowed to participate, so I would think that sets a precedent in some fashion.

That's a good point, but it does seem that if you don't make 15's it's even tougher to make 16's...just what I seem to remember.
And I was not suggesting they go back and look at 16-17 as I agree that no longer matters, probably should have just left it at the 15's.

[Blue&Gold]

Any word on Mr. Elliott's standings?

[elliott70]

Any word on Mr. Elliott's standings?

Apparently on hold until the winter meeting.

[Can't Never Tried]

Any word on Mr. Elliott's standings?

Apparently on hold until the winter meeting.

They didn't have the seeds....just like I said!

Here's my guess.....it'd be to much work for them to find a replacement with the season about to start, and they aren't taking any extra work on... so they probably gave him a couple high brow looks, and a Hmmmff or 2 and ...then said we'll return to this when we have more time to cover the position after the work is done putting the season in order.

was I close ??

[Ontheice]

Any word on Mr. Elliott's standings?

Apparently on hold until the winter meeting.[/quote

elliott aren't you supposed to throw a kegger party when you get put on double secret probation?

[Puckguy19]

Any word on Mr. Elliott's standings?

Apparently on hold until the winter meeting.

They didn't have the seeds....just like I said!

Here's my guess.....it'd be to much work for them to find a replacement with the season about to start, and they aren't taking any extra work on... so they probably gave him a couple high brow looks, and a Hmmmff or 2 and ...then said we'll return to this when we have more time to cover the position after the work is done putting the season in order.

was I close ??

Or maybe he got the "Reusse snub."

[elliott70]

Any word on Mr. Elliott's standings?

Apparently on hold until the winter meeting.[/quote

elliott aren't you supposed to throw a kegger party when you get put on double secret probation?

Yeah, where are Blatoh and Otter and (???), (all the animals) when I need 'em.

[Ontheice]

Apparently on hold until the winter meeting.[/quote

elliott aren't you supposed to throw a kegger party when you get put on double secret probation?

Yeah, where are Blatoh and Otter and (???), (all the animals) when I need 'em.

I had a frightening image of toga's- best we shut this down

[Can't Never Tried]

Apparently on hold until the winter meeting.[/quote

elliott aren't you supposed to throw a kegger party when you get put on double secret probation?

Yeah, where are Blatoh and Otter and (???), (all the animals) when I need 'em.

At the meeting here it looks like they had to drag elliott out screaming!
Nice to see DMom was there..