D6 Refs

[CB00]

Are D6 ref's this bad? I just read a post from the Eden Prairie Tourney about the poor ref's during a PeeWee game. I witnessed poor officating during the Bantam Eden Prairie and Hopkins tourneys this weekend. They seem to very tick tack calls. Dpn't allow for any flow of the game. I know last year my son played Bantams and every time we played in a D6 arena we had D6 refs, it was always a mess of a game. What's up?

[jag00035]

D6 refs are the worst. Elbowing and boarding are rampant, the sympathy calls. And it's really uneven between different staff. Sometimes, they let you play, and sometimes half your bench is in the box from mouthguard penalties.

[Marty McSorely]

They were just fine in the 10 games I watched this weekend. They are a little tight on ITFNC but consistant'

[nahc]

Of the 10 or so games observed at the EP Bantam A tourney, the 1 ref system does not even come close to working. Way to many penalties called with the 1 ref way out of position.......therefore felt obligated to call things they THOUGHT they saw........of course the 2 linesmen were in a LOT better position to make the correct call or noncall as the case may be but could not.......

[ctbrow1]

inter district scrimmages at the district 6 rink always seem to go in favor the d6 team.

[3 boys]

At the BV peewee tournement on Sat, a game against IGH and Av the refs called 6 misconduct penalties for mouthguard infractions. Granted the refs did warn the players on both teams but the kids are in a habit of chewing on there mouthguards so they were called. But what I dont understand is how they can stop play and call it? Our they watching the play or are they staring into the the playeers max to see the infractions? I think alot of the refs are control freaks. just let the kids play!!!!

[elliott70]

At the BV peewee tournement on Sat, a game against IGH and Av the refs called 6 misconduct penalties for mouthguard infractions. Granted the refs did warn the players on both teams but the kids are in a habit of chewing on there mouthguards so they were called. But what I dont understand is how they can stop play and call it? Our they watching the play or are they staring into the the playeers max to see the infractions? I think alot of the refs are control freaks. just let the kids play!!!!

Six?????

Players and coaches should have caught on after one.
It is an important piece of protection - kids need to be educated - not penalized.

[hockeyjunkie2]

At the BV peewee tournement on Sat, a game against IGH and Av the refs called 6 misconduct penalties for mouthguard infractions. Granted the refs did warn the players on both teams but the kids are in a habit of chewing on there mouthguards so they were called. But what I dont understand is how they can stop play and call it? Our they watching the play or are they staring into the the playeers max to see the infractions? I think alot of the refs are control freaks. just let the kids play!!!!

yeah i dont like watching youth games in apple valley because of our own refs, they don't do many solid jobs

[seek & destroy]

At the BV peewee tournement on Sat, a game against IGH and Av the refs called 6 misconduct penalties for mouthguard infractions. Granted the refs did warn the players on both teams but the kids are in a habit of chewing on there mouthguards so they were called. But what I dont understand is how they can stop play and call it? Our they watching the play or are they staring into the the playeers max to see the infractions? I think alot of the refs are control freaks. just let the kids play!!!!

It's always easy to blame the refs but in this case, I agree. As much as I think players/coaches should get the hint after only 1 mouthguard penalty has been called, I still feel that the refs could back off on calling so many. Sitting a full 10 minutes+ in a PW tourney game is a rip off to the parents and grandparents that pay for the tourney ticket and the player who misses nearly a 1/3 of the game. Rules are rules but in the case of tournaments, families quite often come a long way at their own expense to pay for a ticket to watch 3 games.

In defense of the refs, they don't make the rules, they enforce them. It is my opinion that the rules should be allowed to be changed to a shorter penalty (2 minutes ?) at least in tournaments. The refs/league can teach 10-12 year old kids their lessons in other games during the year that are free to watch.

[runninupthescore]

At the BV peewee tournement on Sat, a game against IGH and Av the refs called 6 misconduct penalties for mouthguard infractions. Granted the refs did warn the players on both teams but the kids are in a habit of chewing on there mouthguards so they were called. But what I dont understand is how they can stop play and call it? Our they watching the play or are they staring into the the playeers max to see the infractions? I think alot of the refs are control freaks. just let the kids play!!!!

It's always easy to blame the refs but in this case, I agree. As much as I think players/coaches should get the hint after only 1 mouthguard penalty has been called, I still feel that the refs could back off on calling so many. Sitting a full 10 minutes+ in a PW tourney game is a rip off to the parents and grandparents that pay for the tourney ticket and the player who misses nearly a 1/3 of the game. Rules are rules but in the case of tournaments, families quite often come a long way at their own expense to pay for a ticket to watch 3 games.

In defense of the refs, they don't make the rules, they enforce them. It is my opinion that the rules should be allowed to be changed to a shorter penalty (2 minutes ?) at least in tournaments. The refs/league can teach 10-12 year old kids their lessons in other games during the year that are free to watch.

I agree rules are rules, but when the ref drops the puck and at the same time blows his whistle (happened twice in said game above) to call a mouthgaurd penalty I think thats a little extreme, why the ref couldn't just remind the player before the drop of the puck (to me just looking to call that penalty). These are kids. we all know you can tell them something til your blue in the face and they will still forget to do it. just my two cents!

[5thgraders]

Was it the grey haired overweight guy in his 50s he is a piece of work ?

[goldy313]

At the BV peewee tournement on Sat, a game against IGH and Av the refs called 6 misconduct penalties for mouthguard infractions. Granted the refs did warn the players on both teams but the kids are in a habit of chewing on there mouthguards so they were called. But what I dont understand is how they can stop play and call it? Our they watching the play or are they staring into the the playeers max to see the infractions? I think alot of the refs are control freaks. just let the kids play!!!!

It's always easy to blame the refs but in this case, I agree. As much as I think players/coaches should get the hint after only 1 mouthguard penalty has been called, I still feel that the refs could back off on calling so many. Sitting a full 10 minutes+ in a PW tourney game is a rip off to the parents and grandparents that pay for the tourney ticket and the player who misses nearly a 1/3 of the game. Rules are rules but in the case of tournaments, families quite often come a long way at their own expense to pay for a ticket to watch 3 games.

In defense of the refs, they don't make the rules, they enforce them. It is my opinion that the rules should be allowed to be changed to a shorter penalty (2 minutes ?) at least in tournaments. The refs/league can teach 10-12 year old kids their lessons in other games during the year that are free to watch.

I agree rules are rules, but when the ref drops the puck and at the same time blows his whistle (happened twice in said game above) to call a mouthgaurd penalty I think thats a little extreme, why the ref couldn't just remind the player before the drop of the puck (to me just looking to call that penalty). These are kids. we all know you can tell them something til your blue in the face and they will still forget to do it. just my two cents!

It was a few years ago in Michigan but a kid suffered a concussion, the parents sued because the kid was warned to put his mouthguard in, not penalized as was written in the rules. By not enforcing the rule even though he knew there was an infraction the referee was deemed negligent. A mouthguard violation is not a judgement call therefore the referee was deemed liable. I believe the NFHS changed their wording on the mouthguard rule to prevent one of their officials being deemed negligent, since it no longer has to be attached it's harder to see that it is out.

There is zero tolerance of this in high school football, it is flagged and the penalty is enforced, no debate. No coach will even protest, they will chew the kid out up and down. If the refs were consistant and the kids and coaches were warnedthen the penalties were warrented.

The bigger issue might be are the coaches enforcing the kids to wear them at practice? Also, if it was a hit from behind would you be ok with the ref letting it go with a warning then too?

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

district 6 has this one ref Kemp : guy w/ the stache... in bantam games he is usually the linesman... on a whistle he goes and tells the referee so and so didn't have his mouthguard in.... Not even caught in the act the referee goes and pulls him off the bench and into the penalty box..

When this trio of fun give the bench a warning, be ready within minutes one kid will get one, then soon after the other team will get one.. no matter what.

district 6 needs a new director of officials

[Reality Check]

As a D6 official we just need to be more honest. Players need to be warned before the games not to hit anybody too hard. If you do so, you will be found guilty of one of the following infractions: charging, roughing, boarding, interferance, and my personal favorite head contact. It's simple, if you knock an opposing player off his skates, be prepared to spend two minutes in the box.

We also need to encourage teams to just slow it the down a little. We are old, tired, and in terrible physical condition. Therefore we struggle at times to keep up with a fast paced game. None of us have ever actually played hockey and therefore we have no feel for the game, which causes us to miss minor things like icing and off-sides. But don't wory, we'll catch the major infractions like a players toe in the crease or someone not gaging on their mouthgard.

Lastly, teams need to remember nobody comes to see them play. They come to watch us officiate. If fans and players don't leave the rink talking about the officiating, we simply have not done our job.

[philip18]

I like the D6 enforcement of mouth guards and that they use neck guards. However it is without question the District with the most inconsistent refereeing. I don't know how the kids and coaches know what they will get game to game. They should have a red light: lit for we will call everything and not lit for we will not call anything. It is shame that a District with such good hockey cannot have more consistent officiating. I am not from D6 but my teams over the years have played most of their non league games with D6 because we get the best competition.

[Fire and Ice]

In one word: AWFUL!

Just this site alone should tell the whole district they have a problem. This has gone on for a long time.

[BlackTape]

I will put it simple, D6 ref's SUCK and they are the worst in the country.

[shark1]

Some good, some bad. Just like most districts. Maybe a few more bad ones in D6.

[conditioningsucks]

If you don't like the officiating, put the stripes on yourself.

Or, here is a better idea: put more pucks in the net and you wouldn't have to blame officials for all of your woes.

The refs stink in every district if that is what you want to believe.

Ultimately, if your team works hard, plays clean, the refs will make absolutely no difference on the game (ok, every once and a while they will screw up a game, but 95% of the time minor mistakes or interpretations have no bearing on the outcome of the game).

[Fire and Ice]

D6 refs are terrible control freaks. Much like the people who run it.

[philip18]

I think on the whole refs do a very good job. However D6 refs clearly are the least consistent that I have seen over the last 10 years. It is a shame that such a good district can't improve on the situation. Also it is very easy to play and ref from the stands!

[whockeyguy]

Refs in D-6 . all you have to do is to go to one of their seminars and you will find out that they are the most arrogant bunch of officials in the country, They come out and state that they are the best and the rest of the state has along way to catch up with them .Well the truth is hitting the fan in this forum, as far is im concerned you can have them their and dont let them filtrate to the rest of the state, we will do just fine without them

[hiptzech]

Wow….
I am a D6 ref, and I certainly hope I don’t fit in this category I strive not to. I do know there are very tight standards applied by my boss. It is very simple the rules are the rules, however I prefer to also apply common sense to my calls. One of the posters stated a good point when it comes to liability. Liability and insurance issues are discussed at the officials meeting; I don’t think you can understate the safety and insurance liabilities. As officials we do not make the rules, we enforce them. Some of the rules that are in place have nothing to do with the game and everything to do with safety and insurance underwriting. One poster makes a good point regarding education and the coach’s responsibility as it pertains to ALL of the rules of the game. If players are allowed to skate practices without mouth guards in, they are likely to develop the same habit for games. Parents can also play a big role in the enforcement of the mouth guard rule. It wouldn’t take many lost (benched) games for a player to understand the mouth guard rule. This is a penalty that both the coaches and parents can apply to help get the player to comply with this RULE.

With regard to modifying the standards of play for tourneys, example: have the tourney rules different for the mouth guard rule of being 2 min instead of 10. This is a USA Hockey rule for the protection of the players (and insurance companies). I think there is a point that some people miss on the whole officiating thing. You pay us to call the rules. If the officials are being bashed for calling the rules, than why are you paying us in the first place? It is our responsibility to ALL involved that we carry the torch that does not mean we can be arrogant about it.

The whole mouth guard thing is personally tricky for me. I can correct a kid and have him put in his mouth guard before we start play, but then the ice time is clicking away and at $150/hr correcting the mouth guard infractions gets expensive. I can kick the center out of the face off as a result of the delay, I can kick the kid off the ice as a warning but I bet you would have a hard time arguing with me that that same kid won’t come back on the ice without his mouth guard in place. If I am constantly consuming more ice time for rules infraction the hour clock counts down and the game is ultimately shortened as a result. I will then come on the board to read about how one team was coming back from being down and if they had more time to finish the game they may have come back and won the game, but the refs kept blowing the whistle and holding up play for mouth guard infractions. Things get even more expensive when I decide to let a player skate without his mouth guard and he ends up with a concussion. Then the expense migrates from loss of ice time to the lost expense incurred by the player and his/her family.

My boss is very clear on this call, as an official I am doing my job. If I didn’t do what my boss says at work, I wouldn’t have a job. If USA Hockey ends up paying out on a lawsuit for my lack of rules enforcement, I will not be a D6 official anymore and most likely anywhere in the USA Hockey organization.

With regard to the D6 refs suck comment that hurts. I take pride in officiating in D6, we some of the best players, teams, coaches, and officials in the state. I get to officiate players (of which you haven’t even heard of yet) that you will be talking about in a few years while you are watching them at the State Tournament. My job is to provide a safe environment for them to play and make sure that they know what they can and cannot do during the game as it pertains to the rules and the standard of play. This is a tough job and I accept the challenge. In fact I would suggest everyone that is involved in the game to try it at least for a season, it’s an eye opener.

Officials and coaches have a lot in common and need to be working together for the good of the players and game. I constantly hear complaints of consistency or lack of with officials. I don’t know that I have EVER read a post that addresses the lack of consistency with coaches. Another little insight for you. There are coaches out there that want the officials to make these and other calls, all for the sake of doing their jobs. There are coaches that don’t want officials to verbally warning players and sacrifice the penalty call. One such call is Checking from Behind, of which the penalty is 2+10, why? If you can’t answer this question, then take a break from the keyboard and your posts and sit back and think about why coaches and officials are involved in youth hockey in the first place…. Wait for it…Development. If coaches were more consistent with their reactions to penalties, we may actually get more consistency with the PLAYERS adhering to the rules of the game. Unfortunately there are coaches, parents, and fans out there that do not pick up on what is being called and why. Rather then taking a penalty, then talking to the players on what the officials are calling coaches choose to argue the call which in turn tells the players that the infraction was OK and to continue the same behavior. These are things that many of the common fans simply do not pick-up on. This pathetic thread that has contributions from those that are clueless and have not business posting in the first place. There are other posters that get it and do understand the inter-workings of the D6 officials association, and hockey as the game that it is.

Enjoy the game.

[frederick61]

I don’t know much about the referees and credentials and all that. It is my understanding in D6 that refs have to have some advanced training to ref at the A level in Bantams and Peewees. I do know that because the game flows faster, the refs at the A levels have to work harder to keep up with the calls.

In a sense, this is the source of my questioning the D6 rule that forces D6 teams to use D6 referees (whatever that means) in home scrimmages and tourneys. Does D6 have enough refs that are capable enough to referee all the games going on during the simultaneous play at two different sites with five rinks all active for three days?

My concern is that the refs get tired. I have seen that happen. When they are tired they are out of position and guess on the call. For example, a tired ref will often call off-sides because he is inside the blue line along the boards near the top of the face off circle. He has lost his line of sight.

For the Thanksgiving holiday tourneys in Burnsville and Eden Prairie, at any given time during the day, approximately 13-14 D6 refs certified for A level would be needed on the ice. If each group of 13-14 refs worked two successive games (call that one shift), and then was done for the day, 6 shifts or 78-82 refs would be needed to support both tourneys with D6 refs.

If the refs try to take on more games, the more tired they are and the more inconsistent the calls. So are we seeing tired refs because they are being overused or does D6 “bring up” refs that have not refereed at the A level to make quoted?

By the way, the 78-82 numbers does not reflect total need during those three days since other D6 home games were being played. The mouth guard incidents at the Burnsville tourney maybe the result of overworked refs.

[observer]

The problem I see in D6, and elsewhere, is that the relationship is adversarial. It shouldn't be. The refs can do whatever they want. So now we're clear on that. The coaches need to work with the refs to help their players understand the rules and play within them. It's never the refs. Do they make an occasional mistake? Have coaches or players ever made a mistake? Everyone (team mates, coaches and parents) wants to blame someone other than the player that used bad judgement and did something that was a risk and got caught. Don't do it. There are kids on every team with zero penalties and another with 15. So, it's obvious you can play without getting any. Just do it.

We're trying to play a fun game that is best played 5 on 5. The competition out there is to difficult to beat anyone shorthanded so the goal has to be zero penalties or you'll just mark another in the loss column. Instead I see players making mistakes, getting penalties, getting upset, and the coach acting poorly and setting a poor example. Coaches need to back the ref, sit the kid, and send a clear message to the player that penalties are bad for the team and hurt the entire team. If the coach screams and waves his arms the kids think it's ok. It's not. Coaches and players should rarely even speak with the refs. If the game is played correct the refs are invisible. Stop blaming refs and bless them for the difficult job they have. If you stand back and watch the behavior of the kids and coaches you'll generally see they're the ones behaving poorly. Not half the time, 95% of the time.