Foreign Exchange students

[EricBlair]

wat are your views on playing foreign exchange students over locals on varsity if they are indeed better and more talented

[thedoctor]

that they are from foreign countries?

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

Play the best players.

[The Exiled One]

wat are your views on playing foreign exchange students over locals on varsity if they are indeed better and more talented

I don't see how they'd qualify if their permanent residence isn't in Minnesota. Unless, is it a private school? I guess those kids don't have to be residents... more power too 'em.

[EricBlair]

wat are your views on playing foreign exchange students over locals on varsity if they are indeed better and more talented

I don't see how they'd qualify if their permanent residence isn't in Minnesota. Unless, is it a private school? I guess those kids don't have to be residents... more power too 'em.

they are allowed to play in our school district....and yes they're from foreign countries

[karl(east)]

Playing foreign exchange students is entirely legal. Cloquet has had 2 different Swedes on their first line the past two years.

And I don't blame coaches for playing them; their job is to win. And it also makes little sense for the MSHSL to ban them from playing; if they're passionate about a sport that they play in their home country, why shouldn't they be allowed to play it here?

Even though seeing foreign exchanged students play has caused me considerable pain, I don't think there's a good reason to block them. If you can find some proof of recruitment, then it could become an issue...but only then.

[The Exiled One]

wat are your views on playing foreign exchange students over locals on varsity if they are indeed better and more talented

I don't see how they'd qualify if their permanent residence isn't in Minnesota. Unless, is it a private school? I guess those kids don't have to be residents... more power too 'em.

they are allowed to play in our school district....and yes they're from foreign countries

Okay then. As long as there is no public school recruiting going on, I guess I don't see a problem with it. You'd have to assume that Americans studying abroad would also have the opportunity to play, right? Anybody know a specific example of an Minnesota high schooler playing hockey in Europe?

[youngblood08]

Playing foreign exchange students is entirely legal. Cloquet has had 2 different Swedes on their first line the past two years.

And I don't blame coaches for playing them; their job is to win. And it also makes little sense for the MSHSL to ban them from playing; if they're passionate about a sport that they play in their home country, why shouldn't they be allowed to play it here?

Even though seeing foreign exchanged students play has caused me considerable pain, I don't think there's a good reason to block them. If you can find some proof of recruitment, then it could become an issue...but only then.

WRONG, WRONG AND MORE WRONG. Winning is secondary to guide and molding the leaders of tomorrow. Helping Kids mature into adults, helping them resolve the problems of youth. Helping them enjoy thier High school experience. You make it sound like this is big business, 90% of these kids won't skate past high school.

[elliott70]

Playing foreign exchange students is entirely legal. Cloquet has had 2 different Swedes on their first line the past two years.

And I don't blame coaches for playing them; their job is to win. And it also makes little sense for the MSHSL to ban them from playing; if they're passionate about a sport that they play in their home country, why shouldn't they be allowed to play it here?

Even though seeing foreign exchanged students play has caused me considerable pain, I don't think there's a good reason to block them. If you can find some proof of recruitment, then it could become an issue...but only then.

WRONG, WRONG AND MORE WRONG. Winning is secondary to guide and molding the leaders of tomorrow. Helping Kids mature into adults, helping them resolve the problems of youth. Helping them enjoy thier High school experience. You make it sound like this is big business, 90% of these kids won't skate past high school.

Shouldn't all the students attending school be eligible to play varsity sports (music, debate or whatever)?

Isn't it the responsibility of the coach, director, whatever; to chose those students that are better at the game (etc)?

Playing to win, within the rules, has always been the standard in interschool activity. Guiding, molding, helping are all things a coach (etc) should be doing within the framework.
Selecting the worst participants and adhering to the idea that they will be molded is illogical and not within the bounds of a decent argument.

Try again.

[karl(east)]

Playing foreign exchange students is entirely legal. Cloquet has had 2 different Swedes on their first line the past two years.

And I don't blame coaches for playing them; their job is to win. And it also makes little sense for the MSHSL to ban them from playing; if they're passionate about a sport that they play in their home country, why shouldn't they be allowed to play it here?

Even though seeing foreign exchanged students play has caused me considerable pain, I don't think there's a good reason to block them. If you can find some proof of recruitment, then it could become an issue...but only then.

WRONG, WRONG AND MORE WRONG. Winning is secondary to guide and molding the leaders of tomorrow. Helping Kids mature into adults, helping them resolve the problems of youth. Helping them enjoy thier High school experience. You make it sound like this is big business, 90% of these kids won't skate past high school.

Shouldn't all the students attending school be eligible to play varsity sports (music, debate or whatever)?

Isn't it the responsibility of the coach, director, whatever; to chose those students that are better at the game (etc)?

Playing to win, within the rules, has always been the standard in interschool activity. Guiding, molding, helping are all things a coach (etc) should be doing within the framework.
Selecting the worst participants and adhering to the idea that they will be molded is illogical and not within the bounds of a decent argument.

Try again.

Thank you.

I don't see how it's any easier to mold worse players into "leaders of tomorrow" than better ones. That has a lot more to do with personalities, and that's not what this thread is about.

[itsmorefun]

The best kids play!

As soon as you don't, the community starts to complain that the program is in shambles and more problems arise because of it.

[hockeyhair15]

maybe sleepy eye should look into a foreign exchange program

[Goldy Gopher]

maybe sleepy eye should look into a foreign exchange program

[puckbunny]

I feel bad for the kids that have been playing in the system all the way up only to be moved back a notch because somebody else moved into the program to play in front of them....however, those kids should have done more, they should have shot a thousand pucks a week in their garage, handled the swedish ball for 2 hours a day, ran more sprints, lifted more weights, watched more film, played more shinny,.....instead of playing hours of guitar hero and drinking red bulls, only to have mom and dad complain why a new kid is in town and "took" their kid's spot....B.S.! Your kid lost his spot all on his own. This is a tough world and if there is one thing you can learn from losing your spot to the foreign exchange student, its that there is always going to be somebody out there willing to work harder than you, so when you think you've worked hard enough, work harder.

[Blue&Gold]

Perhaps we've found that elusive loop-hole for the players transferring to different schools: Be an "exchange" student for the hockey season. Don't transfer from Rogers to Wayzata, but get "exchange" status.

I know, this was a stupid statement, but why is it different for kids to transfer between schools and take a spot, and having a kid come from Sweden and take a spot? Oh yeah, because when they transfer, they weaken their local team.. forgot my head there..

I say that if kids can't transfer to schools and play, then an exchange student shouldn't be able to play either. Fair is fair.. right?

[SEMNHOCKEYFAN]

Its not like coachs can recrute foreign students to play hockey for them

[Blue&Gold]

Its not like coachs can recrute foreign students to play hockey for them

Wanna bet on that one?

I still say that it's a loop-hole. Either allow all or none... But it's not like anyone really asked our opinion on the rules, right?

[cchockey]

Foreign exchange students are allowed to play varsity sports for one school year. If you look at the mshsl page under foreign exchange students you'll see that theres many rules that they have to follow. the coaches just cant go out and recruit any player. the exchange student must be here under an f1 visa and be with an approved exchange program. then the high school league must approve the paperwork. Foreign exchange programs are not for sports they are for kids wanting to expand there knowledge and to experince a US high school first hand. I would encourage anyone to host a foreign exchange student even if the do play hockey or another sport. dont be so closed minded

[karl(east)]

Its not like coachs can recrute foreign students to play hockey for them

Wanna bet on that one?

I still say that it's a loop-hole. Either allow all or none... But it's not like anyone really asked our opinion on the rules, right?

I'd take that bet, and I'm not much of a gambler.

The system is very complicated, and kids don't come from overseas to play hockey in Minnesota...if hockey was their primary interest, they'd be focusing on the sport in their home country, or developing at a higher level than high school. A Minnesota high school, though obviously a better option than some places, would still be an odd place for a European hockey player to try to further one's career.

And the reason for the adoption of the 1-year sit-out rule, if memory serves, had nothing to do with a perceived problem of "recruiting" (a very complicated charge that would be very difficult for the MSHSL to enforce or regulate). Rather, it was an effort to stop kids from "shopping for a state championship"...I believe that was the exact quote. Having now spent some time on the East Coast, I can assure you that even out here people are pretty clueless of the quality of hockey in Minnesota, much less which programs they'd do best in. If that's the case in the US, imagine what it's like in Europe.

[Blue&Gold]

Hey, don't get me wrong. (notice the smileys?) I think it's OK, and quite frankly I don't care one way or the other about the transfer rule. I do think that it's a bit hypocritical though. Oh, and you don't think it's interesting that an exchange student might come to MN for a year, and just happen to be a pretty good hockey player? Why didn't they go to Nebraska?

But I'm "just sayin'". I mean, if you think it's OK for a kid who has played in their home town for many years and dreamed of playing for their high school team, only to be moved down to JV because of an exchange student, then I'm OK with it too. I mean, it's all about life lessons, right?

But I do think you all need to say it's either OK or it's not for someone to come in a play for a year at a new school. Don't give me the MSHSL rulebook definition, I want to know why it's OK for some, and not others? (I suppose that if this exchange student helped a private school to a state championship, the roof would fall in on the rule... )

[HShockeywatcher]

puckbunny said it best. As much of a sob story as it is for little Johnny to be bumped to JV because he sucks, well, that's fine with me.

You could see the same thing about students who decide they want to pursue a sport for the first time when they are in their sophomore, junior or senior years. It doesn't happen in hockey (much, if at all), but if you are an amazing all around athlete, often people can pick up a sport like cross country, football, track, soccer or many other sports and be really good right away.

So, if it's not okay for someone to come here and make our country/communities look good, while letting them experience our country and our sports, you'd probably then say it's not okay for these athletes to take the spot of a hard worker who's "dreamed of playing in front of their community"? That's dumb. If you want to be on the team, work harder.

[Blue&Gold]

puckbunny said it best. As much of a sob story as it is for little Johnny to be bumped to JV because he sucks, well, that's fine with me.

You could see the same thing about students who decide they want to pursue a sport for the first time when they are in their sophomore, junior or senior years. It doesn't happen in hockey (much, if at all), but if you are an amazing all around athlete, often people can pick up a sport like cross country, football, track, soccer or many other sports and be really good right away.

So, if it's not okay for someone to come here and make our country/communities look good, while letting them experience our country and our sports, you'd probably then say it's not okay for these athletes to take the spot of a hard worker who's "dreamed of playing in front of their community"? That's dumb. If you want to be on the team, work harder.

But.... but isn't that the reason we don't want to let kids transfer between schools and play? What if Big Johnny wants to go to another school because they have a great academic program, AND he happens to play hockey? Oh yeah, he has to sit a year before competing in sports. Oh, unless of course his parents physically move. And the whining and nashing of teeth about that, because Little Johnny's spot was being taken by Big Johnny when he did move. Oh, and with open-enrollment being legal in this state, I ask again what's different between a transfer and an exchange student?

It's a double-standard that I think WILL be challenged in court someday. When it is, the rules will be changed one way or the other. Either transfer students can play, OR exchange students can't. It will be interesting to watch that happen.

[karl(east)]

puckbunny said it best. As much of a sob story as it is for little Johnny to be bumped to JV because he sucks, well, that's fine with me.

You could see the same thing about students who decide they want to pursue a sport for the first time when they are in their sophomore, junior or senior years. It doesn't happen in hockey (much, if at all), but if you are an amazing all around athlete, often people can pick up a sport like cross country, football, track, soccer or many other sports and be really good right away.

So, if it's not okay for someone to come here and make our country/communities look good, while letting them experience our country and our sports, you'd probably then say it's not okay for these athletes to take the spot of a hard worker who's "dreamed of playing in front of their community"? That's dumb. If you want to be on the team, work harder.

But.... but isn't that the reason we don't want to let kids transfer between schools and play?

No, it's not. It's because we don't want people shopping for state championships. Exchange students do not become exchange students by saying, "Well, I'm going to leave my home for a year to go win a championship in a state in the US that no one in my country has ever heard of." Though they may (and hopefully will) become motivated to do this upon arrival, it's not why they're coming here.

[Blue&Gold]

Yeah, a few have "shopped for a championship", but some just want to go to a different school. This should be either it's OK, or it's not. It's OK for a kid to have to step down when they've been in a program for years because it's an exchange student, but not for a MN kid moving into another school?

C'mon guys, I'm really just jerking your chains, but I think my point is valid. I'll leave this topic to those who it affects now.

[HappyHockeyFan]

Life is unfair, accept it. Yeah if it was my kid getting bumped I would feel bad for him but sometimes life sucks. Even if a kid does everything in his power to develop his skills and has reached his peak he might still get bumped by a transfer or exchang student, thats how LIFE is. It wont get any easier in the future for him when he starts competing for jobs, so in the end its a good lesson for him that sometimes things dont go your way for no good reason. You just gotta jump back on the horse and keep competing the best you can.