Edina ABRA Invitational

[joehockey]

As a Hill parent who knows the team they actually skated 3 lines, 6D and spotted in a 4th line set of wings with the 3rd line center. Edina's first line was very good and Hill's 3rd/4th line often struggled to break out. The shots were fairly close. I agree McKeever was the best player in the game last night for either team. HM led 1-0 after 2nd. Edina scored twice in the third including the winner where some would say McKeever had puck smothered but no whistle - creidt to Edina they kept digging at it. The teams play again at the end of the month I am sure it will be another great game and perhaps a different outcome. Edina has a great team but again the goal scoring power appears to be with 10# and 12#.

I saw the game last night and I thought it was a good game with Hill's goaltending stealing the show. Edina appeared to be the much better team. Edina did cycle 3 lines all game while Hill Murray tended to go with 2 lines through most of the game and in the 3rd period kept the first line out for an extended periods of time. I must admit that I'm biased because I have a niece on the Edina team, but from my angle I seen the net get knocked off the pins after one of our girls was pushed into the post backwards and the puck never crossed the goal line. I didn't see it signaled a goal by anyone but the Hill Murray players. Edina's lines appeared to be evenly balanced with our first line having the edge with their aggresiveness, while Hill Murray's team seemed to drop off in skill after their top line and we really didn't see to much of their 3rd line. McKeever is by far the best player last night on the Hill Murray squad and she prevented it from being blowout for Edina.

[OntheEdge]

Edina 2 Hill Murray 1

Edina has a top line and they recorded both goals in the third period to win. Hill Murray had a goal disallowed to go up 2-1 and then Edina was awarded a goal on what could have been a whistle and blown dead but ref didn't blow it dead.

Joe,

Its always interesting to hear comments from the "other side". I feel compelled to respond to your post because I don't think anything should diminish the fact that Edina played a whale of a game.

Edina has been struggling lately and I thought that last night they started to look more like the team everyone expected at the beginning of the year. I hope that this game is a catalyst for a strong 2nd half of the season. I thought both teams played well especially Hill Murray's goalie, McKeever. Edina outshot HM in each period and I thought Edina had more scoring opportunities. McKeever made some outstanding saves. Edina has 3 good lines and rolled all of them in all 3 periods but I agree with you that the line that scored both goals is the stongest one.

As far as the two goals you mention I have a slightly different opinion which probably isn't surprising to you. For the first one, I can't give an eyewitness opinion since it was at the goal at the far end of the ice away from the crowd but from talking to some of the girls it was their opinion that: (1) there was a scrum in front of the net; (2) an Edina girl was knocked into the goal post which knocked the net off its pins; (3) the ref immediately blew the whistle; (4) the HM girls thought the puck went in and (4) in the opinion of the Edina girls the puck never crossed over the goal line. The referee never indicated it was a goal or it was in the net.

As for the game winning goal I had an excellent view of it since I was standing right behind the net. Sitek knocked the puck in through the 5 hole. The official didn't see it right away so he didn't blow the whistle for a second or two. Once he saw the puck in the net he immediately blew the whistle and indicated it was a goal. In other words it was clearly a goal and if the ref blew the whistle right away it wouldn't have mattered.

Congratulation to Edina they made the final in their tournament and played a very good game and found a way to win everything is always perception so we will leave it at that.

Edina has a good team but only one great line with Buie and Reber the clear standouts - you do have some of the best D including your daughter I have seen but I was not impressed by the other lines compared to what I had heard - your younger players are only going to get better and my sense is next year may be your big year. Should be a fun rematch between the teams later in January.

On the disallowed goal three coaches watching from that end said it was a goal and a bad call......I had the same angle as you - credit to the Edina goalie or player who dislodged the net smart play on a goal. I was on the goal line on the Edina end same as you - we will agree to disagree as I know your opinion is strong and at this point it doesn't matter....reality though is Buie and Reber got it done in the third they are very good and will be the ones who have to carry Edina- Sitek kept jabbing at the puck she did her job despite the slow whistle. As good as McKeever is in net HM can't expect to win only scoring one goal hopefully it will be a wake up call on the go forward.

Good luck tonight, I really do hope you win tonight to avenge your earlier defeat in Stillwater. Talking to your parents it sounds like based on your weak section Edina will be at the Xcel in February and anything can happen in a three game tournament and you will be battled tested.

The Edina parents have done a great job and this is without doubt the best tournament field and your group has made it a great experience for all. Thanks for everyone's efforts.

We will agree to disagree on the goals. No problem on that. It is hockey isn't it? The beauty of the game is that reasonable people can disagree.

Thanks for the encouragement for the Stillwater game but I don't think you quite understand us in Edina. I don't think any of us were thinking about avenging an earlier loss to Stillwater. Most if not all of us were only hoping that we played well and continued getting better. There was some concern when we were dominated by Roseville a couple of weeks ago and there was hope that we could beat Stillwater, not to avenge a loss, but to boost the girls' confidence get us going solidly in the right direction. We are realists in Edina and know that our team is a work in progress because we are going through a transition with a new coach. Most parents I talk to only hope we keep getting better and play our best hockey by the end of the year.

As far as a weak section, I guess I agree with you that it is weak in that it isn't nearly as strong as your section but that doesn't mean that we are so bold to think we are guaranteed a ticket to the Excel Center. Minnetonka is a long time rival and they will be tough to beat. Also AHA has Romatoski and they could be a factor. Also there could be some other surprising teams at the end of the season. Chaska and EP are playing good hockey with young teams.

Also thanks for the compliments on our D and yes I think the Buie/Reber/ Sitek line is a great line (and I think your Brandt/Doyle line is a great line). I think our other two lines are pretty good too, maybe not great, but better than most 2nd and 3rd lines in Girls hockey. Our second leading goal scorer on the team is on the second line.

And finally as you know, I think you have an outstanding squad (a top 5 team). After seeing your goalie play, I think you will be tough for anyone to beat. Your team is loaded with elite players including your daughter. You have a very tough section and who wins the right to go to State will probably be one of the big three (Stillwater, HM or Roseville) but I wouldn't count out WBL either.

Good luck the rest of the season (except Jan. 29 ).

[joehockey]

Thanks OE - what a great game last night you had a great team effort and all of your players contributed to a big win over a very talented Stillwater team. It was one of the best HS girls games I have ever had a chance to see!

And you are correct very balanced scoring for the team which is a great strength:

NAME GLS AST TP
#10 Corinne Buie 5 9 14
#21 Ellie Sitek 9 4 13
#19 Christie Brauer 7 2 9
#12 Sami Reber 4 3 7
#3 Cara Coughlin 2 4 6
#16 Suzana Lundeen 2 3 5
#4 Greer Vogl 1 3 4
#15 Natalie Swiler 2 1 3
#8 Ellie Gleason 0 3 3
#2 Laura Hineuber 0 3 3
#14 Megan Armstrong 0 2 2
#0 Emily Bruns 1 0 1
#5 Mackenzie Rauch 1 0 1
#9 Kelly Thotland 1 0 1
#6 Katey Cowan 0 1 1

[thehocksdad]

Hey Joethehopkinsdad youre kind of quiet after ABRA. Whats going on?

[Joethehockeydad]

I'm mourning right now I hoping that this tourney is a wake up call to the team that Sections and State will be like this. It might actually be nice for the girls to get the target off their backs and let Roseville or Warroad carry it for a while. Also, I expect that we'll have our best D back on Jan. 10th against Wayzata. But thanks for thinkin' about me.

Hey Joethehopkinsdad youre kind of quiet after ABRA. Whats going on?

[OntheEdge]

Hey Joethehopkinsdad youre kind of quiet after ABRA. Whats going on?

Must have been something he ate.

[OntheEdge]

Thanks OE - what a great game last night you had a great team effort and all of your players contributed to a big win over a very talented Stillwater team. It was one of the best HS girls games I have ever had a chance to see!

And you are correct very balanced scoring for the team which is a great strength:

NAME GLS AST TP
#10 Corinne Buie 5 9 14
#21 Ellie Sitek 9 4 13
#19 Christie Brauer 7 2 9
#12 Sami Reber 4 3 7
#3 Cara Coughlin 2 4 6
#16 Suzana Lundeen 2 3 5
#4 Greer Vogl 1 3 4
#15 Natalie Swiler 2 1 3
#8 Ellie Gleason 0 3 3
#2 Laura Hineuber 0 3 3
#14 Megan Armstrong 0 2 2
#0 Emily Bruns 1 0 1
#5 Mackenzie Rauch 1 0 1
#9 Kelly Thotland 1 0 1
#6 Katey Cowan 0 1 1

Joe,

I'm not sure where these stats are from but they aren't entirely accurate. For example, Emily Bruns is on JV and has never played a varsity game. The stats on MGHCA are better (when they are up to date) but they have a few errors too. Since stats are inaccurate and difficult to interpret lets just say we are fairly balanced and leave the stats out of it.

[joehockey]

Thanks OE - what a great game last night you had a great team effort and all of your players contributed to a big win over a very talented Stillwater team. It was one of the best HS girls games I have ever had a chance to see!

And you are correct very balanced scoring for the team which is a great strength:

NAME GLS AST TP
#10 Corinne Buie 5 9 14
#21 Ellie Sitek 9 4 13
#19 Christie Brauer 7 2 9
#12 Sami Reber 4 3 7
#3 Cara Coughlin 2 4 6
#16 Suzana Lundeen 2 3 5
#4 Greer Vogl 1 3 4
#15 Natalie Swiler 2 1 3
#8 Ellie Gleason 0 3 3
#2 Laura Hineuber 0 3 3
#14 Megan Armstrong 0 2 2
#0 Emily Bruns 1 0 1
#5 Mackenzie Rauch 1 0 1
#9 Kelly Thotland 1 0 1
#6 Katey Cowan 0 1 1

Joe,

I'm not sure where these stats are from but they aren't entirely accurate. For example, Emily Bruns is on JV and has never played a varsity game. The stats on MGHCA are better (when they are up to date) but they have a few errors too. Since stats are inaccurate and difficult to interpret lets just say we are fairly balanced and leave the stats out of it.

I agree no one good place to pull stats. These were from the Star Tribune site because the game scores appeared up to date I checked MGHCA first. You have a great team good luck down the strecth.

[nmnhockeydad]

I would be curious to see posts of what people thought of our nothern mn teams at the ABRA?

[Joethehockeydad]

Hopkins played both GRG and Duluth and both games were VERY competitive. My daughter really felt that GRG is the best team they've played. She said both teams (Hopkins and GRG) played their best and GRG was all over Hopkins. Fast to the puck, good goal tending, end to end hockey, etc. . But Hopkins also managed to get beat by Duluth and they played great, so I think the Northern teams show-cased very well.

I would be curious to see posts of what people thought of our nothern mn teams at the ABRA?

[joehockey]

I would be curious to see posts of what people thought of our nothern mn teams at the ABRA?

Duluth was very impressive in the 2-1 loss to HM. Bellemy was very good in goal - only a couple rebound goals got by her and they may have been the only rebounds she gave out. I was impressed with 29 and 7 but most of all the whole team played a very disciplined style of hockey.

[goalzilla]

This tournament was the best Holiday tourney by far. All games were well played and the players came to play making the games very competetive. The season is at the 1/2 way point and all of these teams will continue to improve or change in some way by playoff time.
Don't want to leave out the JV players and games; there was good talent displayed there as well, giving us an idea what some of these teams have for the future.

[ghshockeyfan]

The truth is that the JV players in these programs likely could be solid varsity players in many other programs in the state.

[zamboni99]

It was a great tourney. Any thoughts on an all tournament team? Anyone stand out thoughout the entire tourney?

[jollyroger]

Yes, girls' hockey is still a jumble, and might be forever. There are U12 and U14 players who could play for some varsity teams. There are U14 teams who would beat any JV teams and some varsity teams. Fact is, there are only a handful of programs that use JV for development, and unless numbers start growing again at the youth levels, that's the way is will always be.
On another issue, congrats to Edina for winning the tournament. Maybe they're getting out of their funk. But to praise them for their 'balanced' scoring is silly. It's not balanced scoring that has been their trademark this season. It's that the scoring has been sorely lacking. 3 players with more than 4 goals? That's not balanced, that's anemic. Edina people understand this and are the ones who bring it up. They've hovered around .500 for a good reason.

[hockeyrube7]

Yes, girls' hockey is still a jumble, and might be forever. There are U12 and U14 players who could play for some varsity teams. There are U14 teams who would beat any JV teams and some varsity teams. Fact is, there are only a handful of programs that use JV for development, and unless numbers start growing again at the youth levels, that's the way is will always be.

Could be wrong but doesn't boys work somewhat the same, wouldn't most bantam A teams beat the JV. The big difference there is 7th and 8th graders genarally don't play on the V and stay in youth. Should they in girls?

[jollyroger]

I think parents check out the options and handle it on a case-by-case basis and the kids usually end up 'where they belong'. The problems arise when a coach or parents try to force a kid up a level before they're ready. I'm sure there have been plenty of disasters and wasted seasons out there. Probably the subject for a thread of its own.......

[OntheEdge]

On another issue, congrats to Edina for winning the tournament. Maybe they're getting out of their funk. But to praise them for their 'balanced' scoring is silly. It's not balanced scoring that has been their trademark this season. It's that the scoring has been sorely lacking. 3 players with more than 4 goals? That's not balanced, that's anemic. Edina people understand this and are the ones who bring it up. They've hovered around .500 for a good reason.

Jollyroger,

You hit the nail on the head. Scoring continues to be an issue. The tourney was a great improvement in many facets of the game but scoring is still a problem that has to be addressed.

[royals dad]

I completely disagree that "Some U14 teams could beat any JV". I've seen the #1 ranked Minnetonka U14A play and believe they would not have beaten any of the JV teams I saw in this tourney.

For strong youth girls players the choice of boys vs girls, playing up, or leaving youth for high school is a dificult one. For my daughter we put her options on the table and let her decide; last year she moved to girls hockey and this year she picked JV over youth and has not regreted it. It is different for each player and family there is no blanket right answer.

[joehockey]

I completely disagree that "Some U14 teams could beat any JV". I've seen the #1 ranked Minnetonka U14A play and believe they would not have beaten any of the JV teams I saw in this tourney.

For strong youth girls players the choice of boys vs girls, playing up, or leaving youth for high school is a dificult one. For my daughter we put her options on the table and let her decide; last year she moved to girls hockey and this year she picked JV over youth and has not regreted it. It is different for each player and family there is no blanket right answer.

I think this varies alot by HS and youth association....generally maybe the better the HS team the better the JV the bettter the U14 or at least U12......most of the teams last week in Edina are very strong because they draw from strong youth programs and numbers skating. It would be interesting to see how many of the schools last week had tryouts and actually cut girls beacuse of their strong numbers or limit the tryout of 7th or 8th graders. Schools can do this when they have strong numbers.

Sometimes a weak HS brings up younger kids because they can contribute vs. the older upperclass players but it may hurt the youth teams short term.

Based on which situation you are in would dictate the outcome of a U14 vs. JV game.

[nmnhockeydad]

This is a discussion and point that every association and high school struggles with year after year. The short term ramifications of moving 7-8th graders up to the high school team is there. But associations feel a much longer term impact when the 14U's move up, then 12U's move up to 14U's, ect. It takes years to get the strength back in your association. If at all possible, I think a general rule that 7 & 8th graders play 14U's is best. There is always the standout girl who should be playing up on a varsity.

I completely disagree that "Some U14 teams could beat any JV". I've seen the #1 ranked Minnetonka U14A play and believe they would not have beaten any of the JV teams I saw in this tourney.

For strong youth girls players the choice of boys vs girls, playing up, or leaving youth for high school is a dificult one. For my daughter we put her options on the table and let her decide; last year she moved to girls hockey and this year she picked JV over youth and has not regreted it. It is different for each player and family there is no blanket right answer.

I think this varies alot by HS and youth association....generally maybe the better the HS team the better the JV the bettter the U14 or at least U12......most of the teams last week in Edina are very strong because they draw from strong youth programs and numbers skating. It would be interesting to see how many of the schools last week had tryouts and actually cut girls beacuse of their strong numbers or limit the tryout of 7th or 8th graders. Schools can do this when they have strong numbers.

Sometimes a weak HS brings up younger kids because they can contribute vs. the older upperclass players but it may hurt the youth teams short term.

Based on which situation you are in would dictate the outcome of a U14 vs. JV game.

[OntheEdge]

I completely disagree that "Some U14 teams could beat any JV". I've seen the #1 ranked Minnetonka U14A play and believe they would not have beaten any of the JV teams I saw in this tourney.

For strong youth girls players the choice of boys vs girls, playing up, or leaving youth for high school is a dificult one. For my daughter we put her options on the table and let her decide; last year she moved to girls hockey and this year she picked JV over youth and has not regreted it. It is different for each player and family there is no blanket right answer.

I think this varies alot by HS and youth association....generally maybe the better the HS team the better the JV the bettter the U14 or at least U12......most of the teams last week in Edina are very strong because they draw from strong youth programs and numbers skating. It would be interesting to see how many of the schools last week had tryouts and actually cut girls beacuse of their strong numbers or limit the tryout of 7th or 8th graders. Schools can do this when they have strong numbers.

Sometimes a weak HS brings up younger kids because they can contribute vs. the older upperclass players but it may hurt the youth teams short term.

Based on which situation you are in would dictate the outcome of a U14 vs. JV game.

Edina is one program that cuts players and generally prohibits 7th and 8th graders from trying out for JV/Varsity. The numbers are such that its getting to the point where 9th graders that are still eligible for U14 and will not be playing Varsity are being asked to go back to U14. Also, we have 2 U19 teams in Edina for girls that won't play HS hockey. There are some very good players playing U19, girls that could be playing Varsity hockey somewhere. Its too bad that MSHSL rules don't allow some of these girls to play in HS programs that need the players.

[hockeyrube7]

Edge, I'll take that one step further, why not allow more combinations of smaller HS teams, to get more older kids on the Varsity, thus reducing the need for the younger kids to leave the youth? Your situation is great, and the way I would think we would all like it, but until the sport completely takes of on the girls side, it might be nice to see things even out a bit. Could combo teams be the option?

[OntheEdge]

Edge, I'll take that one step further, why not allow more combinations of smaller HS teams, to get more older kids on the Varsity, thus reducing the need for the younger kids to leave the youth? Your situation is great, and the way I would think we would all like it, but until the sport completely takes of on the girls side, it might be nice to see things even out a bit. Could combo teams be the option?

I for one would like the combo idea because I'm all for good competition and healthy programs but I can see some obvious problems. In youth hockey, there are many rainbow teams which generate many complaints because such teams are not community based and perceived to be Allstar teams. Winning State is very important to some people and if a combo team is too good you will get some of the same complaints.

[hockeywild7]

we already do "combo" teams, (North Metro, Grand Rapids/Greenway, Duluth, Proctor/Hermantown, Cloquet/Esko/Carlton, Brainerd/Little Falls ect... and those are all AA schools) There is no "ONE" right answer or way to do it. Every association is different and has its own unique problems or situations. Some parents prefer their younger kids play JV because of the cost/convenience factor. It isn't any different in boys hockey for alot of schools. They fight with the same issue of Bantams vs. varsity or JV just like the girls do with U12/14.