Top Scorers

[Big Hit]

Hey, SB24 You forgot one of top players in the state Dan DeLisle from Totino Grace with ten games played and he has 27 points with 2.79 points per game

[scoreboard33]

Ness, McDonough, Fischer, Brian Lee, those all sound like players who were rewarded for their efforts and their teams strong finishes, not selfish play. Two second rounders and two first rounders in the NHL draft, not exactly kids who rack up stats by playing against garbage competition.

[northhockey23]

agreed with scoreboard on this one

[stud-lee]

Hey, SB24 You forgot one of top players in the state Dan DeLisle from Totino Grace with ten games played and he has 27 points with 2.79 points per game

correct me if my math is off but doesn't 27 divided by 10 equal 2.7?

[cctndr30]

Ness, McDonough, Fischer, Brian Lee, those all sound like players who were rewarded for their efforts and their teams strong finishes, not selfish play. Two second rounders and two first rounders in the NHL draft, not exactly kids who rack up stats by playing against garbage competition.

Again you guys are missing the point and of course the NHL is never wrong. Can you spell Thelen? You have all fallen back to the next easiest thing PPG. How about PPG "with the same competion" and "against the same competition"? In other words if you play for Benilde with Pauly who clearly loads a line and rarely plays more than two. It's easy to inflate your skills. and, with Benilde's schedule he can get away with it. How good might any of the three be alone in tough games? On a second line somewhere else? Or spread out among three balanced lines like Edina EP or Tonka where the coaches seem to mind more about development than numbers. It may be that the only measurement we will have is during playoffs, or State Tournament, when the 10 to nothing games are gone. Or Juniors where they really do have to earn their ice time. Did Ness come close to his PPG total in the State tournament last year in the last two games? Even with 40 minutes of play? By the way I do feel that there may not be a magic measurement. But until we get one let's stop ranking anyone on anything less than a top 20 players by position. To say Benek or Hanowski is better than Lee or Faust based on points or PPG is a prime example of whay we shouldn't even have these conversations.

[scoreboard33]

Ness, McDonough, Fischer, Brian Lee, those all sound like players who were rewarded for their efforts and their teams strong finishes, not selfish play. Two second rounders and two first rounders in the NHL draft, not exactly kids who rack up stats by playing against garbage competition.

Again you guys are missing the point and of course the NHL is never wrong. Can you spell Thelen? You have all fallen back to the next easiest thing PPG. How about PPG "with the same competion" and "against the same competition"? In other words if you play for Benilde with Pauly who clearly loads a line and rarely plays more than two. It's easy to inflate your skills. and, with Benilde's schedule he can get away with it. How good might any of the three be alone in tough games? On a second line somewhere else? Or spread out among three balanced lines like Edina EP or Tonka where the coaches seem to mind more about development than numbers. It may be that the only measurement we will have is during playoffs, or State Tournament, when the 10 to nothing games are gone. Or Juniors where they really do have to earn their ice time. Did Ness come close to his PPG total in the State tournament last year in the last two games? Even with 40 minutes of play? By the way I do feel that there may not be a magic measurement. But until we get one let's stop ranking anyone on anything less than a top 20 players by position. To say Benek or Hanowski is better than Lee or Faust based on points or PPG is a prime example of whay we shouldn't even have these conversations.

I don't go just by what the NHL scouts say. I talk to many NHL scouts, go to many games and watch the players myself. No one has said that Benik is better than Lee or Faust, it obvious to anyone who knows hockey that he racks up points against garbage teams. We are just talking about who the top scorers in the state are. While the NHL scouts aren't always right, it is their job to be right more than anyone of us and they don't care about who the players is, they care about talent and vote on Mr. Hockey based on their picks. These people are being paid good money by teams to find the best players. If you have a top 20, tell me that you can't identify a players who is clearly better than another on that list.

It is ridiculous how politically correct everything must be. Every judgement of a player will be slightly unfair. We don't have a magic formula and go on the best info we have, instead of whining about how unfair everything is. If you go through life saying, "that is perfectly, so I can't accept it," you will do nothing.

You referred to Jack Welch earlier and I have heard him speak and his main point is always to go with what we have and try to make the best of the situation. Improve it if we can, if we can't, accept it and make the best decision you can and move on. As long as their is no perfect formula, we must accept it and make decisions based on the info we do have.

[chiefofmedicine]

ccdtr30 or whatever...
you should really calm down. this topic is about the people with the most points and will they stay.... really go check in the beginning. you have made about how its all unfair and blah blah blah. anyone who knows anything about hockey knows that benik is not as good as lee, and no one is saying that. st francis plays bad teams.... but he cannot help that. The fact is that he is putting up massive numbers that are unrealistic, even unimagineable for guys who play for edina and the likes. its not about who is better, its about who are the "TOP SCORERS" not "TOP PLAYERS". Benik, Beslise, Anderson, are good players who play weak schedules. Get over it and move on. your whining is annoying.

[cctndr30]

Ness, McDonough, Fischer, Brian Lee, those all sound like players who were rewarded for their efforts and their teams strong finishes, not selfish play. Two second rounders and two first rounders in the NHL draft, not exactly kids who rack up stats by playing against garbage competition.

Again you guys are missing the point and of course the NHL is never wrong. Can you spell Thelen? You have all fallen back to the next easiest thing PPG. How about PPG "with the same competion" and "against the same competition"? In other words if you play for Benilde with Pauly who clearly loads a line and rarely plays more than two. It's easy to inflate your skills. and, with Benilde's schedule he can get away with it. How good might any of the three be alone in tough games? On a second line somewhere else? Or spread out among three balanced lines like Edina EP or Tonka where the coaches seem to mind more about development than numbers. It may be that the only measurement we will have is during playoffs, or State Tournament, when the 10 to nothing games are gone. Or Juniors where they really do have to earn their ice time. Did Ness come close to his PPG total in the State tournament last year in the last two games? Even with 40 minutes of play? By the way I do feel that there may not be a magic measurement. But until we get one let's stop ranking anyone on anything less than a top 20 players by position. To say Benek or Hanowski is better than Lee or Faust based on points or PPG is a prime example of whay we shouldn't even have these conversations.

I don't go just by what the NHL scouts say. I talk to many NHL scouts, go to many games and watch the players myself. No one has said that Benik is better than Lee or Faust, it obvious to anyone who knows hockey that he racks up points against garbage teams. We are just talking about who the top scorers in the state are. While the NHL scouts aren't always right, it is their job to be right more than anyone of us and they don't care about who the players is, they care about talent and vote on Mr. Hockey based on their picks. These people are being paid good money by teams to find the best players. If you have a top 20, tell me that you can't identify a players who is clearly better than another on that list.

It is ridiculous how politically correct everything must be. Every judgement of a player will be slightly unfair. We don't have a magic formula and go on the best info we have, instead of whining about how unfair everything is. If you go through life saying, "that is perfectly, so I can't accept it," you will do nothing.

You referred to Jack Welch earlier and I have heard him speak and his main point is always to go with what we have and try to make the best of the situation. Improve it if we can, if we can't, accept it and make the best decision you can and move on. As long as their is no perfect formula, we must accept it and make decisions based on the info we do have.

I cede your point. As long as we keep score, points will matter.

But I too have seen Welch speak, more than once and I can't help but wonder if he wouldn't want the other measurements that we know are important as readily known as just points. We KNOW there is more relevant data that is just as important. We just "choose" not to measure it and publish it. I don't think he'd like that much.

[scoreboard33]

Again you guys are missing the point and of course the NHL is never wrong. Can you spell Thelen? You have all fallen back to the next easiest thing PPG. How about PPG "with the same competion" and "against the same competition"? In other words if you play for Benilde with Pauly who clearly loads a line and rarely plays more than two. It's easy to inflate your skills. and, with Benilde's schedule he can get away with it. How good might any of the three be alone in tough games? On a second line somewhere else? Or spread out among three balanced lines like Edina EP or Tonka where the coaches seem to mind more about development than numbers. It may be that the only measurement we will have is during playoffs, or State Tournament, when the 10 to nothing games are gone. Or Juniors where they really do have to earn their ice time. Did Ness come close to his PPG total in the State tournament last year in the last two games? Even with 40 minutes of play? By the way I do feel that there may not be a magic measurement. But until we get one let's stop ranking anyone on anything less than a top 20 players by position. To say Benek or Hanowski is better than Lee or Faust based on points or PPG is a prime example of whay we shouldn't even have these conversations.

I don't go just by what the NHL scouts say. I talk to many NHL scouts, go to many games and watch the players myself. No one has said that Benik is better than Lee or Faust, it obvious to anyone who knows hockey that he racks up points against garbage teams. We are just talking about who the top scorers in the state are. While the NHL scouts aren't always right, it is their job to be right more than anyone of us and they don't care about who the players is, they care about talent and vote on Mr. Hockey based on their picks. These people are being paid good money by teams to find the best players. If you have a top 20, tell me that you can't identify a players who is clearly better than another on that list.

It is ridiculous how politically correct everything must be. Every judgement of a player will be slightly unfair. We don't have a magic formula and go on the best info we have, instead of whining about how unfair everything is. If you go through life saying, "that is perfectly, so I can't accept it," you will do nothing.

You referred to Jack Welch earlier and I have heard him speak and his main point is always to go with what we have and try to make the best of the situation. Improve it if we can, if we can't, accept it and make the best decision you can and move on. As long as their is no perfect formula, we must accept it and make decisions based on the info we do have.

I cede your point. As long as we keep score, points will matter.

But I too have seen Welch speak, more than once and I can't help but wonder if he wouldn't want the other measurements that we know are important as readily known as just points. We KNOW there is more relevant data that is just as important. We just "choose" not to measure it and publish it. I don't think he'd like that much.

I agree that if we kept more accurate stats, we could create a better measure of a player than just points but I'd but Mr. Welch would not be too happy if our school districts allocated funds to train off ice officials to keep more advanced statistics so we can have a better measure of a player. 5 on 5 goals is a good measure that could easily be calculated if someone wanted to, but then again if a player scores pp goals like Thomas Vanek is doing, that is also worth something to the team. The other stats are harder to get, especially +/-, which even when reported is hardly accurate.

[cctndr30]

I don't go just by what the NHL scouts say. I talk to many NHL scouts, go to many games and watch the players myself. No one has said that Benik is better than Lee or Faust, it obvious to anyone who knows hockey that he racks up points against garbage teams. We are just talking about who the top scorers in the state are. While the NHL scouts aren't always right, it is their job to be right more than anyone of us and they don't care about who the players is, they care about talent and vote on Mr. Hockey based on their picks. These people are being paid good money by teams to find the best players. If you have a top 20, tell me that you can't identify a players who is clearly better than another on that list.

It is ridiculous how politically correct everything must be. Every judgement of a player will be slightly unfair. We don't have a magic formula and go on the best info we have, instead of whining about how unfair everything is. If you go through life saying, "that is perfectly, so I can't accept it," you will do nothing.

You referred to Jack Welch earlier and I have heard him speak and his main point is always to go with what we have and try to make the best of the situation. Improve it if we can, if we can't, accept it and make the best decision you can and move on. As long as their is no perfect formula, we must accept it and make decisions based on the info we do have.

I cede your point. As long as we keep score, points will matter.

But I too have seen Welch speak, more than once and I can't help but wonder if he wouldn't want the other measurements that we know are important as readily known as just points. We KNOW there is more relevant data that is just as important. We just "choose" not to measure it and publish it. I don't think he'd like that much.

I agree that if we kept more accurate stats, we could create a better measure of a player than just points but I'd but Mr. Welch would not be too happy if our school districts allocated funds to train off ice officials to keep more advanced statistics so we can have a better measure of a player. 5 on 5 goals is a good measure that could easily be calculated if someone wanted to, but then again if a player scores pp goals like Thomas Vanek is doing, that is also worth something to the team. The other stats are harder to get, especially +/-, which even when reported is hardly accurate.

Agreed. Completely. At least now we're having a civil discussion (and I admit fault in this fully) which is how change usually begins.

Where are all the volunteer parents I hear about in Minnesota Hockey?