Bantam B rankings?

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Do you agree?

Yes
6
21%
No
6
21%
Kinda...
10
36%
No Way! Totally Wrong
6
21%
 
Total votes: 28

noConsistancy
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:11 am

Post by noConsistancy »

well every game is a different game, every period can be a different period,
but generally speaking ( at 49 yrs old i have watched a thousand games)
when a team outshoots the other team say
38-7 - it's pretty obvious ....

I would love to see "time of possession in zones -
I wrote a program and tried to do it - but you
end up clicking keys alot ! LOLOLOL and you miss the game !!!

I personally keep track for my sons team
for fair / good / excellent shot counts.

so what happened in this game you mention by the end of the game ?

was the dominant team outshot by a large margin ?

also seems somewhat odd - because most good teams
like the pro's throw everything they can at the net ?




gohawk4 wrote:You cannot use shots on goal as a reference for who is the best team. The other day I watched a game where one team had about 8 shots on goal and the other team had 2, midway through the first period. The 8 shots were all from the perimeter and not very strong chances for goals. Meanwhile, the team with 2 had been in control of the puck most of the game, but they were trying to free up the slot and back door, instead of throwing low percentage shots at the net.

If results are not important to figure out the best team, perhaps we should start keeping track of offensive zone possession or save percentage for goalies. If your goalie can't stop a beach ball, you can dominate games and still lose. Rankings are about figuring out, what TEAM is the best team. One bad goalie will kill a team, where as, 1 bad forward can be hidden. So yes, shots and control are important in rankings, but the end result is how the team performed.
noConsistancy
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:11 am

Re: LP(tonka)H...

Post by noConsistancy »

just a note - i thought OMG was a really good team,
really they check everything that moves,
and they lost twice to Wayzata Blue 4-0 and 5-0 WOWSA
Blue must be pretty good.


Well i have seen Minnetonka play my sons team
and they looked pretty good.
They were big and somewhat fast team.
It appeared in the warmup that 1 goalie wasn't very sharp,
but who knows.

I can tell you Apple Valley ( since you have a question mark at 13 )
is small and quick - and have destroyed Lakeville South
and Jefferson twice each and quite a few teams in tournaments and
scrimmages that are not big and physical.

when they play a big and physical team and many penalties are
called - they do not fair as well.

I can also say (my opinion only)

big and physical and have several "snipers"
Burnsville ( seen 5 games )
Minnetonka ( only saw 1 game )
OMG ( seen 2 games )


Not physical at all ( atleast 3 games i have seen )
Jefferson
Lakeville South


somewhat physical but not high speed and/or no "Snipers"
EP
Edina White
Lakeville North


so trying to rank down to 20 is never going to be accurate
it's obvious Wayzata Blue is 1

someone said Duluth East was good - but they lost to
Lakeville South ? well that tells me they must also
not have a lot of speed. ( just a guess ? )











Who else? wrote:Help me understand...

Minnetonka #6 (14-10-4)

Interesting losses to:
Duluth LAKERS - unranked
Edina White - #14
Thunder Bay - ugh!
Wayzata Gold - #8
Lakeville South - #12

Tied:
Eden Prairie - #16
OMG (twice) - #7

Won:
St Cloud (twice) - unranked
Cambridge Isanti - unranked
Lakeville North (twice) - unranked
Shakopee - unranked
Eagan Blue - #9
Woodbury White - unranked
Waconia - unranked
Hopkins - unranked
Apple Valley - #13???
Andover - unranked
Burnsville (split) - #2
gohawk4
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Cooper

Post by gohawk4 »

noConsistancy- The better team ended up outshooting them, but it wasn't at as large of a margin as the two teams. Also, like I said before, if you can't win when you outshoot a team it doesn't mean your team is better. It means your offense is better. I would much rather win with 3 breakaway goals and 3 shots on net, then lose with 45-50 shots. Look at a team like the wild. Are they worse than almost every team in the league because they don't score or shoot as much as other teams? I would argue they are somewhere in the middle of the league, because they play well as a team and the results prove it.

Who else- I don't know what Thunder Bay- ugh means, but I can tell you that this team was very good. Minnetonka is a big, physical team that I would not want to play against during the postseason. Do I think they are more talented than lots of teams, no. But they are good. I would put them about 12th.

Watching OMG, I think they are probably closer to 3rd or 4th than 7th. Their only issue is putting the puck in the back of the net.

Could be an interesting District 3 tournament as only two teams move to regionals and you have 3 teams in the top 8. I would argue that they should probably all be in the top 6.
dlhhockey
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:08 pm

Post by dlhhockey »

DE hasn't played Lakeville. We're comfortable at #4 on the list. Lost to Wayzata once and will play again in a couple of weeks. Haven't played Burnsville - will at the beginning of Feb. Lost to Edina Green in November and just beat them last weekend. Have only lost three games and until the Wayzata game had only let up one goal per game since October.
MNhockeyGuru77
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:54 am

Bloomington Tournament Review

Post by MNhockeyGuru77 »

I caught most of the Bloomington Tournament over the holidays and this is my thoughts on the teams involved in order of finish. I know this may be a week late but I just got back from my holiday vacation.

(#2) Burnsville 3 - (#13) Apple Valley 0

The game was closer than the score showed. Both played solid defensive game in which Burnsville was leading 1-0 half way through the third. Burnsville scored a late insurance goal on the powerplay and looked to be the better all-round team as they closed it out with a 3-0 victory.

1st- Burnsville: Plays very physical with out a ton of size necessarily. They are well coached with good puck movement. Can lose focus in a physical game as shown in their tie against Thunder Bay. Scored two late goals on a 5 on 3 to knot it up at 3 late in the game. Deserving of top three ranking from the games I have seen around the Metro.

2nd- Apple Valley: Very hit or miss. Pretty strong defensively especially with the large defensive core who can control the games against less physical opponents. 44 shots against a B2 team and still losing shows lack of offensive prowess. Will play with good teams and wouldn't be surprised with a top ten rank or completely falling out of the top 20.


(#9) Eagan Blue 5 - (#15) Jefferson 0

The game was a rematch from pool play in which a different Jefferson team came to play after a loss to Apple Valley. Eagan came out strong and dominated most of the play through the first 2 periods. Jefferson played much stronger in the first game where their goalie made a number of key saves. He shutout Eagan in all four periods in which he played against them as he helped stop the bleeding in the 3rd place game.

3rd- Eagan Blue: Big, strong forwards that create scoring chances from a nice, solid forecheck. Average defensemen that weren't challenged most of the tournament. Played strong against the Blaze in a game that could have gone either way. Deserving of top ten rank and could be tough to beat down the road.

4th- Bloomington Jefferson: Small, quick team. Got second seed out of pool play after winning a tough game against Eagan in the last game before the elimination round. Well coached in defensive zone with one great goalie but lack consistent offensive pressure. Could be a team no one wants to play if they could start producing some more offense, specifically on the powerplay. Deserving of a rank in the 10 to 20 with potential of making a late season run.

Other teams: Outside the top 4. The only other team worth top 20 consideration is (#12) Lakeville South. They have nice size at defense but lack any system play.
Nevermind
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:05 pm

Post by Nevermind »

After doing research for the Moorhead tournament, The GR team looks like there getting over looked. Lost to East twice 4-1 and 3-1(en) and beat WBL Orange 5-2. 14-2 i think there record was?? There needs to be a LPH rep at that tounament.
BarTender3035
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:57 pm

Post by BarTender3035 »

Nevermind wrote:After doing research for the Moorhead tournament, The GR team looks like there getting over looked. Lost to East twice 4-1 and 3-1(en) and beat WBL Orange 5-2. 14-2 i think there record was?? There needs to be a LPH rep at that tounament.

SSSSSSSSSSShhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
noConsistancy
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:11 am

question

Post by noConsistancy »

does anyone know what moorhead bantam b team is the ranked team?

a moorhead bantam b team was in the cloquet tourny and
i believe they lost once or twice ? I saw a few minutes
and they did not appear to be a top 20?
Air Force 1
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:22 pm
Location: East Grand Forks

Re: question

Post by Air Force 1 »

noConsistancy wrote:does anyone know what moorhead bantam b team is the ranked team?

a moorhead bantam b team was in the cloquet tourny and
i believe they lost once or twice ? I saw a few minutes
and they did not appear to be a top 20?
Moorhead Black is the team in the LPH rankings. Orange is their B2 team.
BigPuck03
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:00 pm

Post by BigPuck03 »

Newest Rankings.....

1 WAYZATA BLUE
2 Burnsville
3 Duluth East
4 Edina Green
5 Moorhead
6 Osseo/Maple Grove
7 Minnetonka
8 Sauk Rapids
9 Eagan Blue
10 Edina White
11 Wayzata Gold
12 Apple Valley
13 Elk River
14 Lakeville South
15 Stillwater
16 Blooming. Jefferson
17 Eden Prairie
18 Wodbury Blue
19 Wodbury White
20 Tartan


How does a team like Sauk Rapids get ranked that high, who have they played/beaten?
gohawk4
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Cooper

Post by gohawk4 »

Sauk Rapids only has one loss, to Eagan. They beat OMG the other day in the St. Cloud tournament. If you don't ever lose it doesn't matter who you play. They have the one loss early in the season. After #1 you can argue almost any position.
Nevermind
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:05 pm

Post by Nevermind »

GR has 3 loses 16-3. Number 3 East beat them all 3 times. 4-1, 3-1en, 2-1, beat white bear lake orange 5-2. Maple Grove I thought was in Rapids last week for a touny
gohawk4
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Cooper

Post by gohawk4 »

OMG was in the Rapids tournament last week. The week before they were in St. Cloud. That is where they lost to Sauk Rapids. In the GR tournament they lost to Duluth who, as you know, won the tournament. I am in no way in charge of rankings, but GR biggest win is WBL orange, who is unranked. They had a 2-1 game against Duluth Lakers, which I know many top teams have handled quite easily.

I think GR should probably be ranked, could easily move Tartan or one of the Woodburys off to make room. Also, District 6 has too many teams ranked in the top 20 in my opinion, but EP isn't the worst of D6 either. I guess it is how you do in tournaments that matter and EP has had to play Wayzata Blue in a few of them.

The only way to rank from 2-20 is to look at win-lose record, and who these teams have played. I don't think any of the rankers at LPH have seen every team play enough to make an exact ranking. In fact, I don't think any of us have. So if you don't like where your team is ranked, prove it at the end when rankings become final.
noConsistancy
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:11 am

wowsa

Post by noConsistancy »

EP beat Burnsville yesterday 5-1
noConsistancy
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:11 am

more

Post by noConsistancy »

Wayzata Gold 4 EP 1 on Dec 29th Scrimmage
Wayzata Gold 5 Edina White 1 on Dec 28th Scrimmage
Burnsville 8 Wayzata Gold 3 on Jan 5th Scrimmage
Edina White 2 Edina Green 1 on Jan 9th League
Wayzata Gold 1 Elk River 2 (ot) on Jan 11th ER Tournament
BV 6 Edina Green 2 on Jan 13th League
EP 5 Burnsville 1 on Jan 15th
BV scrimmages Wayzata Blue on Jan 18th 4:20pm in BV

so i guess on any given day ......
gohawk4
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Cooper

Post by gohawk4 »

Wayzata Blue vs. Burnsville was cancelled. I heard too many people would be missing.
Shoot Higher
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:21 pm

Post by Shoot Higher »

gohawk4 wrote:Wayzata Blue vs. Burnsville was cancelled. I heard too many people would be missing.
From what team and why ?
BigPuck03
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:00 pm

Post by BigPuck03 »

Thanks for the help, makes sense now, just win games!
gohawk4
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Cooper

Post by gohawk4 »

Burnsville's Goalie is coming back from a trip and may not be at the game and Wayzata has players missing including their backup goalie.
Shoot Higher
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:21 pm

Post by Shoot Higher »

gohawk4 wrote:Burnsville's Goalie is coming back from a trip and may not be at the game and Wayzata has players missing including their backup goalie.
Does Burnsville only have one B1 goalie?
gohawk4
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Cooper

Post by gohawk4 »

I believe they do only have 1 goalie. Unsure though. Looking at their team page it looks like they have 15 players overall. So probably, 14 skaters and 1 goalie.
i am mr.Cocky
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:10 pm

Post by i am mr.Cocky »

what about stillwater who have they beaten why are they ranked so high?
gohawk4
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Cooper

Post by gohawk4 »

I was wondering the same thing. They are 4th in District 2, yet ranked above all the other teams. They do not post scores on their website though so maybe they have some big wins.
BigPuck03
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:00 pm

Post by BigPuck03 »

1/22 Rankings

1 WAYZATA BLUE
2 Duluth East
3 Burnsville
4 Edina Green
5 Eagan Blue
6 Moorhead
7 Osseo/Maple Grove
8 Minnetonka
9 Wayzata Gold
10 Edina White
11 Eden Prairie
12 Elk River
13 Sauk Rapids
14 Apple Valley
15 Lakeville South
16 Blooming. Jefferson
17 Stillwater
18 Woodbury Blue
19 Tartan
20 Woodbury White
i am mr.Cocky
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:10 pm

Post by i am mr.Cocky »

ya i guess
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