2008-2009 Bantam A Rankings

[rudy]

blainehockeymom, a reasoned and polite response. hey, watch it, or you'll be too cordial to continue being on this board!

[surehockey]

I thought this was for people's opinions...didn't know Rudy, yours was the ony one...

[conditioningsucks]

Chuck Norris Fan,

Thanks for throwing out your picks. Though I have some different thoughts on some of the teams and where they fall, the only glaring one I have from your picks is Roseville at #15. I don't get it. They are 0-5-2 against teams in your top 20. Like LPH's affection for Roseau, I just can't justify putting them in my top 20 - especially with their recent loss to the Arapahoe Ice Warriors AA team (came to MN and only beat Roseville, Mound-Westonka, and Highland Central...not the best company....while losing to Burnsville, Apple Valley, Tartan, Eastview, Jefferson, and Lakeville South). You have to win your way into the Top 20 and Roseville has not shown they are capable yet. That's why they sit at #22 on my list on the edge of falling into my Tier 5 Abyss (and they will move down if they don't pick it up against some better teams). MNHockeyRankings ranks them fairly high only because they have a high goal differential due to pummelling Como and Sibley. Add on their recent loss to SP Johnson and a tie with Tartan (a Tier 5 team) and you have a team that is 'horribly inconsistent' and belongs in Tier 5.


To Rudy - Though head to head you may have beat Eagan, I still give them the slight advantage over Edina based on how their schedule has worked out. I have them #6 and you at #9....subject to change each week. Your team is good, just keep on winning and you will prove yourself to be the better team.

[Fire and Ice]

conditioningsucks-

Since you believe Eagan is a #6 please list the teams they have beaten number 15 and back to 1...that is how you can tell if they deserve even a #9 ranking.

ok here is the answer:
# 1 Duluth E lost
# 2 Wayzata lost
# 3 Rochester lost
# 4 Rogers won and tied
# 6 Lakeville S lost
# 7 Edina lost
#9 Apple Valley won
#10 Minnetonka lost
# 11 Centennial tied

(2-6-2) record

[conditioningsucks]

[quote="Fire and Ice"]conditioningsucks-

Since you believe Eagan is a #6 please list the teams they have beaten number 15 and back to 1...that is how you can tell if they deserve even a #9 ranking.[/quote]

Apple Valley (my #10) 2-0
Rogers (my #3) 3-2
Moorhead (my #7) 6-3
Moorhead (my #7) 3-2

with ties against the following:
Rogers (my #3) 4-4
Centennial (my #11) 2-2

Eagan has lost to Woodbury (tier 3) and Chaska (tier 4) which upon review caused me to move them down from Tier 1 (Tier 1 teams should lose one game all year to Tier 3 and Tier 4 teams as they are just that good even on their bad days...Eagan doesn't qualify).

As mentioned, I have moved Eagan into my Tier 2 teams (teams 6-12). These are teams that are pretty even up and if they played each other 10 times they probably would end up 5-5.

Eagan's record against Tier 1 and 2 teams is 4-6-2.
Edina's record against Tier 1 and 2 teams is 7-8-1.

My point is there is not much difference between each of the teams in Tier 2. I place Eagan higher because they seem to have figured Rogers #3 out.

[conditioningsucks]

To further prove my point Fire and Ice:

Edina is 1-7 against Tier 1 teams
Eagan is 1-3-1 against Tier 1 teams

Is my rationale beginning to take hold yet?

[Fire and Ice]

How did you get Moorhead so high? That makes Eagan's record look much better and has Moorhead beaten anyone in the top 15?

[conditioningsucks]

man...you are making me work tonight!

Teams from up north are much more difficult to 'handicap' due to their difficulty in scheduling difficult competition that Twin Cities Teams take for granted.

With Moorhead I looked at their overall play against all Tiers to attempt to handicap them.

They recently destroyed Minnetonka (Tier 2) 6-1
Eden Praire (Tier 4) 6-4
Chaska (Tier 4) 4-3
Centennial (Tier 2) 1-1
Woodbury (Tier 3) 4-3

They got beat badly by Wayzata 9-0 and Edina 4-0 in the first week of the season ---- which I have cut them slack as their team had just formed...and, surprise, teams change over the course of the season.

Finally, a 6-3 loss to Duluth East is respectable...when Duluth East has pounded Edina 7-2 and even Rogers this recent weekend 4-1.

I think my handicapping is sound. They are properly placed at #7 until they screw up.

[wannagototherink]

conditioningsucks-

Since you believe Eagan is a #6 please list the teams they have beaten number 15 and back to 1...that is how you can tell if they deserve even a #9 ranking.

Apple Valley (my #10) 2-0
Rogers (my #3) 3-2
Moorhead (my #7) 6-3
Moorhead (my #7) 3-2

with ties against the following:
Rogers (my #3) 4-4
Centennial (my #11) 2-2

Eagan has lost to Woodbury (tier 3) and Chaska (tier 4) which upon review caused me to move them down from Tier 1 (Tier 1 teams should lose one game all year to Tier 3 and Tier 4 teams as they are just that good even on their bad days...Eagan doesn't qualify).

As mentioned, I have moved Eagan into my Tier 2 teams (teams 6-12). These are teams that are pretty even up and if they played each other 10 times they probably would end up 5-5.

Eagan's record against Tier 1 and 2 teams is 4-6-2.
Edina's record against Tier 1 and 2 teams is 7-8-1.

My point is there is not much difference between each of the teams in Tier 2. I place Eagan higher because they seem to have figured Rogers #3 out.

Oh my goodness. It has been unreal watching how what started as someone giving an entertaining synopsis of how a number of bantam teams were playing, into computer generated rankings based on stats, to now which I can't believe me eyes but it all has been broken down into tiers and this team can't possibly be any good because they haven't beaten enough teams that played against teams in this teir and WHAT?

Chuck I really appreciate your takes.

[conditioningsucks]

Wannago,

Sorry I haven't included many of your up north teams. I can understand why you have a chip on your shoulder! Just be happy I hold your Hounds in high regard.

[Chuck Norris Fan]

Chuck Norris Fan,

the only glaring one I have from your picks is Roseville at #15. I don't get it. They are 0-5-2 against teams in your top 20. Like LPH's affection for Roseau, I just can't justify putting them in my top 20 - especially with their recent loss to the Arapahoe Ice Warriors AA team (came to MN and only beat Roseville, Mound-Westonka, and Highland Central...not the best company....while losing to Burnsville, Apple Valley, Tartan, Eastview, Jefferson, and Lakeville South). You have to win your way into the Top 20 and Roseville has not shown they are capable yet. That's why they sit at #22 on my list on the edge of falling into my Tier 5 Abyss (and they will move down if they don't pick it up against some better teams).

You know I couldn't agree more, and the more i look at them and their scores, the more i agree with you.

[conditioningsucks]

MNHockeyRankings.com 1/7/08

Bantam A
1. Duluth East
2. Wayzata
3. Rochester
4. Osseo Maple Grove
5. Rogers
6. Lakeville South
7. Eagan
8. Edina
9. Minnetonka
10. Apple Valley
11. Moorhead
12. White Bear Lake
13. Woodbury
14. Centennial
15. Bloomington Jeff
16. Bemidji
17. Roseville
18. Burnsville
19. Minneapolis Park
20. Chaska

Bloomington Jefferson rockets up with their strong performance in their tourney. Minneapolis Park rockets down with their poor performance in Edina tourney. Roseville continues to slide.

[blainehockeymom]

[/quote]blainehockeymom, a reasoned and polite response. hey, watch it, or you'll be too cordial to continue being on this board! Wink[quote]

Rudy: I am stating my opinion, and in my opinion i think Eagan is better. Chill, just because your hornets aren't first doesn't mean your last.

[rudy]

blainehockeymom -- please note the "wink" in there. i was trying to give you a compliment.

[conditioningsucks]

Let Play Hockey 1/8/08

1 Duluth East
2 Wayzata
3 Osseo/Maple Grove
4 Rogers
5 Rochester Red
6 Edina
7 Lakeville South
8 Apple Valley
9 White Bear Lake
10 Centennial
11 Moorhead
12 Eagan
13 Minnetonka
14 Eden Prairie
15 Woodbury
16 Roseville
17 Bloomington Jefferson
18 Minneapolis Park
19 Bemidji
20 Burnsville


LPH seems to be getting it right. They have knocked both Grand Rapids and Roseau out until they win their way on (perhaps Roseau can dominate their tourney and knock off Rochester Red or O/MG to claim their spot in the top 20 as winning the Northern Bracket isn't that impressive). LPH still has Roseville on the board which remains a baffling mystery to me. Eagan & Moorhead are much lower than where I have them...but I'll give LPH credit that they could be right too.

[northwoods oldtimer]

In the Roseau Tournament the teams match up North verse South so winning it for Roseau would indeed be impressive.

[sioux]

Let Play Hockey 1/8/08

1 Duluth East
2 Wayzata
3 Osseo/Maple Grove
4 Rogers
5 Rochester Red
6 Edina
7 Lakeville South
8 Apple Valley
9 White Bear Lake
10 Centennial
11 Moorhead
12 Eagan
13 Minnetonka
14 Eden Prairie
15 Woodbury
16 Roseville
17 Bloomington Jefferson
18 Minneapolis Park
19 Bemidji
20 Burnsville


LPH seems to be getting it right. They have knocked both Grand Rapids and Roseau out until they win their way on (perhaps Roseau can dominate their tourney and knock off Rochester Red or O/MG to claim their spot in the top 20 as winning the Northern Bracket isn't that impressive). LPH still has Roseville on the board which remains a baffling mystery to me. Eagan & Moorhead are much lower than where I have them...but I'll give LPH credit that they could be right too.

I would have to disagree on fact that LPH is getting it right. EP at #14, they need to start giving credit, where and when it is due. EP has not won a game since December 10th, but yet they sit in the states top 15. I find that to be a pathetic oversight on part of LPH. If they want their rankings to have and credibility they need to set biases aside and do it correctly.

[conditioningsucks]

Sioux, I am in agreement with you that EP is high. My personal ratings have EP almost out in the Tier 5 (#23-31) abyss. LPH also has Roseville in their rankings, when Roseville has not beat a top 20 team.....they need to be bumped down substantially or out completely, too. But, what LPH did was get rid of Roseau and Grand Rapids. Both of these teams are not Top 20 based on their results this year. Until those teams can win their way on, they are out. So, LPH has begun to 'clean house' and become more accurate with their Top 20, but we can both agree that they still have a little ways left to go.

[bardown26]

This is my prospective

1.Lakeville South
2.Wayzata
3.Apple Valley
4.Edina
5.Duluth East
6.Osseo/Maple Grove
7.Rogers
8.Rochester Red
9.Bloomington Jefferson
10.Burnsville

[conditioningsucks]

Bardown,

Dude...are you sure you are at the right thread? Sure you don't mean Peewees?

Lakeville South - Loss to B. Jefferson & tie Cottage Grove in the last few weeks means they ain't immortal. They are at least 6th in the state and I show them lower.

Wayzata - Yep....even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

AV - Losses to Eagan, Edina, and Rogers in the last three weeks places them nowhere near #3

Edina - Strong team. Most of their losses have come to the 'real' top 5 or 6 teams in the state. Currently 8th in my mind...but at least you are getting close.

Duluth East - huh? #5. Dude, these guys rock. #1 until someone beats 'em.

OMG - at #6, they are probably your closest prognostication.

Rogers - Top two lines can dominate just about anyone...except Duluth East and Wayzata. They be #3.

Rochester Red - Dude....#8??? See how they are walking right through the Roseau Tourney as we speak? Some good competition up there. #4...and no less.

Bloomington Jefferson - Not Top 10....yet. But they just need to show for a few more weeks that they can dominate District 6....which they haven't convinced me of yet. #14 and moving up.

Burnsville - Right.....you have to be consistent to be Top 10. This team is nowhere close. They are in the high teens at best.

Just my thoughts...keep the prognositicating up to the big boys!

[bardown26]

Just wait you will see

[bardown26]

[quote="conditioningsucks"]MNHockeyRankings.com 1/7/08

Bantam A
1. Duluth East
2. Wayzata
3. Rochester
4. Osseo Maple Grove
5. Rogers
6. Lakeville South
7. Eagan
8. Edina
9. Minnetonka
10. Apple Valley
11. Moorhead
12. White Bear Lake
13. Woodbury
14. Centennial
15. Bloomington Jeff
16. Bemidji
17. Roseville
18. Burnsville
19. Minneapolis Park
20. Chaska

Bloomington Jefferson rockets up with their strong performance in their tourney. Minneapolis Park rockets down with their poor performance in Edina tourney. Roseville continues to slide.[/quote]

I wouldn't consider 15th as rocketing up

[jag00035]

Jefferson beats Edina 4-3, gets all 3 points.

Jefferson goalie was standing on his head in the 3rd.

They should move up a few in the rankings, shouldn't they?

[BogeyMan]

This is my prospective

1.Lakeville South
2.Wayzata
3.Apple Valley
4.Edina
5.Duluth East
6.Osseo/Maple Grove
7.Rogers
8.Rochester Red
9.Bloomington Jefferson
10.Burnsville

Eagan 3
Lakeville South 2
Friday night D8

[surehockey]

conditioning sucks...how often are you going to be doing your updating on your tier system? and are there any "sleeper teams" that might or could be moving up?