White Bear Lake-Ups and Downs

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:40 am

Ive been looking at almost ever post for WBL games and it seems that after every game, win OR lose, a new topic arrises about their "inconsitency". Now I agree with the topic, and would like to make a thread where people can talk about it without it overpowering another topic/thread.
Heres a look at the schedule:
Century:7-1 W
Fargo:4-3 L
Moorhead:6-3 L
Forest Lake:5-1 W
Woodbury(10):3-2 L
Cloquet:4-0 W
Park:8-1 W
Moundsview:2-1 W
Hill(12)(#2 at the time):5-2 L
Centennial(4):6-5 W
Holy Angels(9):4-4 T(shootout win for schwanns goes to AHA)
Minnetonka(7):7-2 L
Stillwater(15):2-1 L
Hastings:9-0 W
Roseville:2-0 L
CDH:4-2 W
East(6):6-3 L

Now, looking at the schedule, do you blame WB's inconsistency, or do you blame others being inconsistent as well? Hastings:tied stillwater and roseville
Woodbury:tied forest lake, OT with hastings
Roseville:tied hastings, lost to CDH
CDH:Beat roseville, lost to WB

i mean, it seems like WB is taking all the pressure for inconsistency, and other teams either arent getting credit, or make excuses. which one is it?
WB sits at 7-1-7 with some easier matchups coming up. How will they finish?

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:44 am

First off, lets make sure you state their record correctly. 8-8-1 W-L-T

As their record shows. this has been a very average team so far this year. Like all average teams, they usually beat some teams (Cent, AHA tie) that you wouldn't think, and lose to some others (Still, Rose). They have also played a pretty tough non-conference schedule with losses to Moorhead, HM, Tonka, DE. (Side note: Tonka has impressed me the most)

IMO, injuries have played a significant role in their lackluster season so far. The defense has taken the biggest hit with Hoffman, Gjerde, and Dolfay all missing games. The season long hip injury to Hoffman has affected the team both offensively and defensively. Forward Wolter's missed a couple of games early on, and still seems to be a step slow. Going into the season, everybody expected more than one goal out of him!

Some posters have complained about the Senior leadership. I don't know how they view leadership, but looking at the stats on Pointstreak, the five skating Seniors on the team make up five of the top seven in points for the team. (Top three forwards and top two defensemen in scoring are Seniors) The other two forwards are Sophomores.

Special teams play has been terrible again this year. There have been many power plays where the Bears can't even get into the offensive zone, let alone set up a play. As for penalty kill, this is where the coaching just kills me. They put no pressure on the puck. They sit back in their box (or diamond) and let the other team set up. In the last few games, the other teams (Still, Rose, DE, CDH, and DE) have scored power play goals with shots from the point. Somebody has got to clue me in on the purpose of this pressureless strategy!

A couple of other areas that they need improvement are face offs and scrums along the boards. This team is very weak in the face off circle and a little extra work from their coach should help out. The Bears also need to start winning the battles along the boards. Too many times they outnumber the opponent and yet we see the opposition skate out of the scrum with possesion of the puck.

For the rest of the season, the Bears have to get healthy. They also need Wolter to start scoring. If he doesn't, then it is time to move him off the top two lines and move somebody else up. With a full and healthy squad, I see them finishing with a 7-1 or 6-2 record the rest of the way. The section is wide open now, with the hit to HM. Don't count the Pioneers out though, because the Bears showed everybody last year that losing four top players (Hansen & Johnson to USHL and Villneauve & DeSmidt to terminatioin) does not end your season as shown in last years 1 goal game in the section final.

It's time to put up...or shut up Bears!!!!

formerlybackofnet · Post by **formerlybackofnet** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:06 am

BodyShots wrote:First off, lets make sure you state their record correctly. 8-8-1 W-L-T

As their record shows. this has been a very average team so far this year. Like all average teams, they usually beat some teams (Cent, AHA tie) that you wouldn't think, and lose to some others (Still, Rose). They have also played a pretty tough non-conference schedule with losses to Moorhead, HM, Tonka, DE. (Side note: Tonka has impressed me the most)

IMO, injuries have played a significant role in their lackluster season so far. The defense has taken the biggest hit with Hoffman, Gjerde, and Dolfay all missing games. The season long hip injury to Hoffman has affected the team both offensively and defensively. Forward Wolter's missed a couple of games early on, and still seems to be a step slow. Going into the season, everybody expected more than one goal out of him!

Some posters have complained about the Senior leadership. I don't know how they view leadership, but looking at the stats on Pointstreak, the five skating Seniors on the team make up five of the top seven in points for the team. (Top three forwards and top two defensemen in scoring are Seniors) The other two forwards are Sophomores.

Special teams play has been terrible again this year. There have been many power plays where the Bears can't even get into the offensive zone, let alone set up a play. As for penalty kill, this is where the coaching just kills me. They put no pressure on the puck. They sit back in their box (or diamond) and let the other team set up. In the last few games, the other teams (Still, Rose, DE, CDH, and DE) have scored power play goals with shots from the point. Somebody has got to clue me in on the purpose of this pressureless strategy!

A couple of other areas that they need improvement are face offs and scrums along the boards. This team is very weak in the face off circle and a little extra work from their coach should help out. The Bears also need to start winning the battles along the boards. Too many times they outnumber the opponent and yet we see the opposition skate out of the scrum with possesion of the puck.

For the rest of the season, the Bears have to get healthy. They also need Wolter to start scoring. If he doesn't, then it is time to move him off the top two lines and move somebody else up. With a full and healthy squad, I see them finishing with a 7-1 or 6-2 record the rest of the way. The section is wide open now, with the hit to HM. Don't count the Pioneers out though, because the Bears showed everybody last year that losing four top players (Hansen & Johnson to USHL and Villneauve & DeSmidt to terminatioin) does not end your season as shown in last years 1 goal game in the section final.

It's time to put up...or shut up Bears!!!!

I agree with most of what you say, except moving Wolter would be a mistake. He make a nice addition to the Walin/Birkabine line and is somewhat responsable for thier success>

SEC Scotty · Post by **SEC Scotty** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:50 pm

There defenseman have a hard time handling pressure and getting the puck out of their end. Mainly because 3 of the guys are inexperienced.

The goaltender and top senior defenseman have been very inconsistent. Injuries have played a role.

They have two good lines, but if they plan on making a run in the postseason it is play of the defense (and goalie) that will need to improve.

hockeyxfan01 · Post by **hockeyxfan01** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:53 pm

BodyShots wrote:First off, lets make sure you state their record correctly. 8-8-1 W-L-T

As their record shows. this has been a very average team so far this year. Like all average teams, they usually beat some teams (Cent, AHA tie) that you wouldn't think, and lose to some others (Still, Rose). They have also played a pretty tough non-conference schedule with losses to Moorhead, HM, Tonka, DE. (Side note: Tonka has impressed me the most)

IMO, injuries have played a significant role in their lackluster season so far. The defense has taken the biggest hit with Hoffman, Gjerde, and Dolfay all missing games. The season long hip injury to Hoffman has affected the team both offensively and defensively. Forward Wolter's missed a couple of games early on, and still seems to be a step slow. Going into the season, everybody expected more than one goal out of him!

Some posters have complained about the Senior leadership. I don't know how they view leadership, but looking at the stats on Pointstreak, the five skating Seniors on the team make up five of the top seven in points for the team. (Top three forwards and top two defensemen in scoring are Seniors) The other two forwards are Sophomores.

Special teams play has been terrible again this year. There have been many power plays where the Bears can't even get into the offensive zone, let alone set up a play. As for penalty kill, this is where the coaching just kills me. They put no pressure on the puck. They sit back in their box (or diamond) and let the other team set up. In the last few games, the other teams (Still, Rose, DE, CDH, and DE) have scored power play goals with shots from the point. Somebody has got to clue me in on the purpose of this pressureless strategy!

A couple of other areas that they need improvement are face offs and scrums along the boards. This team is very weak in the face off circle and a little extra work from their coach should help out. The Bears also need to start winning the battles along the boards. Too many times they outnumber the opponent and yet we see the opposition skate out of the scrum with possesion of the puck.

For the rest of the season, the Bears have to get healthy. They also need Wolter to start scoring. If he doesn't, then it is time to move him off the top two lines and move somebody else up. With a full and healthy squad, I see them finishing with a 7-1 or 6-2 record the rest of the way. The section is wide open now, with the hit to HM. Don't count the Pioneers out though, because the Bears showed everybody last year that losing four top players (Hansen & Johnson to USHL and Villneauve & DeSmidt to terminatioin) does not end your season as shown in last years 1 goal game in the section final.

It's time to put up...or shut up Bears!!!!

Agree... the penalty kill and power play is what's been hurting them the most all year.

guitarer1c · Post by **guitarer1c** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:18 pm

As a White Bear grad and fan, watching this year's team has been tough. At times, they've shown toughness an ability to compete with anybody (the AHA game, for example), and at other times they have looked absolutely brutal (against Hill).

Some observations/questions:

-Putney is bar far their best overall player; losing him to injury in the third period sealed the deal for Duluth East

-I don't understand why Sam Swanson is the 1st line center. He is slow, average on faceoffs, and weak with the puck.

-I've got nothing concrete to go on, but it just doesn't seem like players enjoy playing for Sager. Early departures would seem to confirm this.

sicknasty7722 · Post by **sicknasty7722** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:25 pm

guitarer1c wrote:As a White Bear grad and fan, watching this year's team has been tough. At times, they've shown toughness an ability to compete with anybody (the AHA game, for example), and at other times they have looked absolutely brutal (against Hill).

Some observations/questions:

-Putney is bar far their best overall player; losing him to injury in the third period sealed the deal for Duluth East

-I don't understand why Sam Swanson is the 1st line center. He is slow, average on faceoffs, and weak with the puck.

-I've got nothing concrete to go on, but it just doesn't seem like players enjoy playing for Sager. Early departures would seem to confirm this.

Who would you rather play with Lowell and Slator that is fast enough to keep up with them?

BarryMcConnell · Post by **BarryMcConnell** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:19 am

Guitar, You are very correct in observing the lack of enjoyment for playing for Sager and his band of misfit coaches. Ask any former player of his and they all react the same. He and his staff do absolutely nothing to get any of their players ready for the next level. Not all of these kids have the chance to play at the next level but for the few that do it's a shame. Matt Hartmann (for example) had to promote himself to get to a junior team and now to Bemidji State next season. I guarentee Sager will try to take the credit for that too!

There's a reason the current varsity staff were run out of their previous towns!! WB kids and fans deserve much better.

Maybe Sager needs to whistle more on the bench!!! That might help.

wbmd · Post by **wbmd** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:11 am

BarryMcConnell wrote:Guitar, You are very correct in observing the lack of enjoyment for playing for Sager and his band of misfit coaches. Ask any former player of his and they all react the same. He and his staff do absolutely nothing to get any of their players ready for the next level. Not all of these kids have the chance to play at the next level but for the few that do it's a shame. Matt Hartmann (for example) had to promote himself to get to a junior team and now to Bemidji State next season. I guarentee Sager will try to take the credit for that too!

There's a reason the current varsity staff were run out of their previous towns!! WB kids and fans deserve much better.

Maybe Sager needs to whistle more on the bench!!! That might help.

Extremely well said!! All of it.

wiseguy · Post by **wiseguy** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:17 pm

BarryMcConnell wrote:Guitar, You are very correct in observing the lack of enjoyment for playing for Sager and his band of misfit coaches. Ask any former player of his and they all react the same. He and his staff do absolutely nothing to get any of their players ready for the next level. Not all of these kids have the chance to play at the next level but for the few that do it's a shame. Matt Hartmann (for example) had to promote himself to get to a junior team and now to Bemidji State next season. I guarentee Sager will try to take the credit for that too!

There's a reason the current varsity staff were run out of their previous towns!! WB kids and fans deserve much better.

Maybe Sager needs to whistle more on the bench!!! That might help.

It seems like over the last few season we always see something about Sager and his staff but do you think they (AD and staff) will make a change. And if so do they promote from within or go outside and look. Is it Sager and staff or is it just that WBL isn't as powerfull anymore and other teams are starting to close the gap and pass them up? What has the youth been like.

BarryMcConnell · Post by **BarryMcConnell** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:07 pm

This group currently at the varsity level had done very well at the youth level all the way up. There is no reason they shouldn't compete every single game they play. It's embarrassing to see this team practice which then translates to the ice during games. None of it do I blame on the kids. I will not get into X's and O's about Sager's philosophy but when kids complain that practices aren't hard enough, they're not being pushed and they don't feel like they're improving I think we have a major problem.

The AD (Bob Jackson - Varsity Football Coach) would never think about getting rid of Sager. Bob hates hockey because his best athletes for football also play hockey. He'd like to see the hockey team do terrible so the kids will stop playing and focus on football. I think if this was brought to the attention of the school board by parents and players (both current and past) they may make enough noise to run him out. If Wausau, WI can run this clown out I think WB could do it too. Don't forget to whistle!!

WB really missed the boat when he first applied along with some very qualified coaches and they chose him because he was a teacher! Charlie Basco (CDH) would have been a much better selection.

formerlybackofnet · Post by **formerlybackofnet** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:04 pm

BarryMcConnell wrote:This group currently at the varsity level had done very well at the youth level all the way up. There is no reason they shouldn't compete every single game they play. It's embarrassing to see this team practice which then translates to the ice during games. None of it do I blame on the kids. I will not get into X's and O's about Sager's philosophy but when kids complain that practices aren't hard enough, they're not being pushed and they don't feel like they're improving I think we have a major problem.

The AD (Bob Jackson - Varsity Football Coach) would never think about getting rid of Sager. Bob hates hockey because his best athletes for football also play hockey. He'd like to see the hockey team do terrible so the kids will stop playing and focus on football. I think if this was brought to the attention of the school board by parents and players (both current and past) they may make enough noise to run him out. If Wausau, WI can run this clown out I think WB could do it too. Don't forget to whistle!!

WB really missed the boat when he first applied along with some very qualified coaches and they chose him because he was a teacher! Charlie Basco (CDH) would have been a much better selection.

The bad thing is, Jacksons football coaching skills are worse than Sagers hockey coaching skills. He really should fire himself. This is why no school should have a combination coach/AD.

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:09 pm

formerlybackofnet wrote:
BarryMcConnell wrote:This group currently at the varsity level had done very well at the youth level all the way up. There is no reason they shouldn't compete every single game they play. It's embarrassing to see this team practice which then translates to the ice during games. None of it do I blame on the kids. I will not get into X's and O's about Sager's philosophy but when kids complain that practices aren't hard enough, they're not being pushed and they don't feel like they're improving I think we have a major problem.

The AD (Bob Jackson - Varsity Football Coach) would never think about getting rid of Sager. Bob hates hockey because his best athletes for football also play hockey. He'd like to see the hockey team do terrible so the kids will stop playing and focus on football. I think if this was brought to the attention of the school board by parents and players (both current and past) they may make enough noise to run him out. If Wausau, WI can run this clown out I think WB could do it too. Don't forget to whistle!!

WB really missed the boat when he first applied along with some very qualified coaches and they chose him because he was a teacher! Charlie Basco (CDH) would have been a much better selection.
The bad thing is, Jacksons football coaching skills are worse than Sagers hockey coaching skills. He really should fire himself. This is why no school should have a combination coach/AD.

That's the same issue EP is having with Grant doing both coaching and AD. The major difference is that Grant actually wins!

Post by **east hockey** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:34 pm

BarryMcConnell wrote:
There's a reason the current varsity staff were run out of their previous towns!! WB kids and fans deserve much better.

It makes me wonder how many of you anonymous posters in the Hang Sager club have ever said anything to his face? Easier to whine on a forum without giving your real names, isn't it? How else could it be?

WB fans deserve better? Not if they act like you.

Lee

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:45 pm

east hockey wrote:
BarryMcConnell wrote:
There's a reason the current varsity staff were run out of their previous towns!! WB kids and fans deserve much better.

It makes me wonder how many of you anonymous posters in the Hang Sager club have ever said anything to his face? Easier to whine on a forum without giving your real names, isn't it? How else could it be?

WB fans deserve better? Not if they act like you.

Lee

once again, posters judging every wb fan by one anonymus fan. cool lee

Post by **east hockey** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:30 pm

blanco oso wrote:
east hockey wrote:
BarryMcConnell wrote:
There's a reason the current varsity staff were run out of their previous towns!! WB kids and fans deserve much better.

It makes me wonder how many of you anonymous posters in the Hang Sager club have ever said anything to his face? Easier to whine on a forum without giving your real names, isn't it? How else could it be?

WB fans deserve better? Not if they act like you.

Lee
once again, posters judging every wb fan by one anonymus fan. cool lee

I'm aware that most WBL fans aren't like the ones I was talking to. You weren't so self-centered as to think I was referring to you, were you? Truth was, you didn't enter my mind at all while I was writing my response.

A few other WBL fans have a separate issue.

Lee

mnhcky65 · Post by **mnhcky65** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:16 pm

sicknasty7722 wrote:
guitarer1c wrote:As a White Bear grad and fan, watching this year's team has been tough. At times, they've shown toughness an ability to compete with anybody (the AHA game, for example), and at other times they have looked absolutely brutal (against Hill).

Some observations/questions:

-Putney is bar far their best overall player; losing him to injury in the third period sealed the deal for Duluth East

-I don't understand why Sam Swanson is the 1st line center. He is slow, average on faceoffs, and weak with the puck.

-I've got nothing concrete to go on, but it just doesn't seem like players enjoy playing for Sager. Early departures would seem to confirm this.
Who would you rather play with Lowell and Slator that is fast enough to keep up with them?

Swanson is the best Center that White Bear has... he deserves to be their first line center more than anyone else.

E · Post by E » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:40 pm

mnhcky65 wrote:
sicknasty7722 wrote:
guitarer1c wrote:As a White Bear grad and fan, watching this year's team has been tough. At times, they've shown toughness an ability to compete with anybody (the AHA game, for example), and at other times they have looked absolutely brutal (against Hill).

Some observations/questions:

-Putney is bar far their best overall player; losing him to injury in the third period sealed the deal for Duluth East

-I don't understand why Sam Swanson is the 1st line center. He is slow, average on faceoffs, and weak with the puck.

-I've got nothing concrete to go on, but it just doesn't seem like players enjoy playing for Sager. Early departures would seem to confirm this.
Who would you rather play with Lowell and Slator that is fast enough to keep up with them?
Swanson is the best Center that White Bear has... he deserves to be their first line center more than anyone else.

swanson is the best on the team in faceoffs won, isn't weak with the puck, and is faster then 80%of the kids out there

BarryMcConnell · Post by **BarryMcConnell** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:18 am

East, so you know....yes these problems have all been brought to the attention of Sager in a meeting with him and the youth coaches in WB over the summer. In person, face to face, names were out there too. If you think I am alone in how I feel about WB hockey you are badly mistaken. Why is it that Sager, Nitti and Long were run out of their past towns. Must be good coaching! And you can't tell me they left on their own.

Pioneerprideguy · Post by **Pioneerprideguy** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:49 am

It should also be pointed that many Hill Murray people were at this meeting this summer. They stood behind Sager & his staff and have vowed to do whatever necessary to keep them at WBL. The Hill Murray supporters put a lot of work in recruting Sager to get him to come to WBL and we don't want him to leave. The fact that we help pay his salary should prove how serious we are about this. Given the developments to this year's HM squad, we really need Coach Sager to do his magic again with his team. If you do, you will continue to receive our strong support.

mustangman · Post by **mustangman** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:27 am

I know coach nitti wasn''t "run out" because of coaching. He took our program from 2 -5 wins a season to 10-16 wins in a few short years. I played for the guy and he knows his hockey and will do anything for his players. He was tough on us and i didn't always like it then but looking back I know he helped me become a better player and person.

Pioneerprideguy · Post by **Pioneerprideguy** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:48 pm

So do you think that maybe WB might finally beat HM this year? I realize it has been years since this has happened so I guess here is your chance WB. Boy, just imagine the feeling that if, by some weird chance, that HM & WB meet again in sections. All WB has to do is beat a team that lost "3 of their top 5 players" and they get to return to State. And what would that feeling be like if, say, HM finds a way to win said game? Nahhh, never happen. Hill has no chance...they are done...put a fork in em! It appears HM has every excuse why they didn't win sections, but what will be WB's excuse if they fail? Seems like a lot of pressure WB...don't grip those sticks too tight.

formerlybackofnet · Post by **formerlybackofnet** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:07 pm

Hill still has enough talent to win the section, and probably will.

hockeyxfan01 · Post by **hockeyxfan01** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:14 pm

Pioneerprideguy wrote:So do you think that maybe WB might finally beat HM this year? I realize it has been years since this has happened so I guess here is your chance WB. Boy, just imagine the feeling that if, by some weird chance, that HM & WB meet again in sections. All WB has to do is beat a team that lost "3 of their top 5 players" and they get to return to State. And what would that feeling be like if, say, HM finds a way to win said game? Nahhh, never happen. Hill has no chance...they are done...put a fork in em! It appears HM has every excuse why they didn't win sections, but what will be WB's excuse if they fail? Seems like a lot of pressure WB...don't grip those sticks too tight.

I don't think either team would be foolish enough to overlook the other if they meet again in sections.

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:27 pm

Pioneerprideguy wrote:So do you think that maybe WB might finally beat HM this year? I realize it has been years since this has happened so I guess here is your chance WB. Boy, just imagine the feeling that if, by some weird chance, that HM & WB meet again in sections. All WB has to do is beat a team that lost "3 of their top 5 players" and they get to return to State. And what would that feeling be like if, say, HM finds a way to win said game? Nahhh, never happen. Hill has no chance...they are done...put a fork in em! It appears HM has every excuse why they didn't win sections, but what will be WB's excuse if they fail? Seems like a lot of pressure WB...don't grip those sticks too tight.

As pointed out earlier, WBL almost beat HM last year in the section final even though they were down 4 significant players from the previous year. Given HM had around 90 kids tryout for their hockey program, it won't be a surprise if they make it to state again this year. Not to mention that HM still has some top end players that played "Elites" this past summer when WBL had none.

Lets just say the section winner this year is up for grabs with a number of teams capable. None of which is a power in the state of hockey!