Fargo South in Minnesota

[HockeyHigh]

Although this is a Minnesotan forum and I'm not expecting to get the most unbiased replies ... But South has finished all their games against Minnesota teams. How do you think Fargo South would fare had they been in Minnesota? Assuming their section would be 8AA alongside Moorhead and Roseau, I'd like to hear from either side of the border how they'd do as it's always good to have teams from ND competing with some of the most prestigious high school hockey in the country.

For those who don't follow South (assuming most of you), here's who they've played:

Date / Team / Score / [Rank in AA on date played] / Short Description

12/02/08 / Moorhead / T: 2 - 2 / [#8] / South wins 1st, 2nd and 3rd are mostly Moorhead, OT was about even.

12/05/08 / White Bear Lake / W: 4 - 3 / [#7] / WBL scored about 15 seconds in, FS recovers with 3 unanswered in 2nd and one in third, WBL scores two late in 3rd but can't equalize.

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Kiwanis Festival Tournament:
12/29/08 / Roch. John Mar / W: 6 - 0 / [#66] / South allows four shots on net...

12/30/08 / Rochester Century / W: 4 - 3 / [#39] / Century plays exceedingly well defensively and capitalizes on any offensive chances, but gets beaten in OT after being heavily out shot throughout the game

12/31/08 / Apple Valley / W: 5 - 1 / [#19] / South swept this game after going down by one in the first to win the Kiwanis championship.
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01/22/09 / Crookston / W: 4 - 1 / [#25 in A] / South allows 12 shots, controls play but lacks scoring.

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As of now they're 14-1-1 Overall, with the Tie to Moorhead and a question mark loss to Bismarck.

To me it's a shame they don't compete against more higher level teams like Moorhead and White Bear, especially later in the season, which would give a much better example of how well they'd do in Minnesota.

[defense]

Although this is a Minnesotan forum and I'm not expecting to get the most unbiased replies ... But South has finished all their games against Minnesota teams. How do you think Fargo South would fare had they been in Minnesota? Assuming their section would be 8AA alongside Moorhead and Roseau, I'd like to hear from either side of the border how they'd do as it's always good to have teams from ND competing with some of the most prestigious high school hockey in the country.

For those who don't follow South (assuming most of you), here's who they've played:

Date / Team / Score / [Rank in AA on date played] / Short Description

12/02/08 / Moorhead / T: 2 - 2 / [#8] / South wins 1st, 2nd and 3rd are mostly Moorhead, OT was about even.

12/05/08 / White Bear Lake / W: 4 - 3 / [#7] / WBL scored about 15 seconds in, FS recovers with 3 unanswered in 2nd and one in third, WBL scores two late in 3rd but can't equalize.

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Kiwanis Festival Tournament:
12/29/08 / Roch. John Mar / W: 6 - 0 / [#66] / South allows four shots on net...

12/30/08 / Rochester Century / W: 4 - 3 / [#39] / Century plays exceedingly well defensively and capitalizes on any offensive chances, but gets beaten in OT after being heavily out shot throughout the game

12/31/08 / Apple Valley / W: 5 - 1 / [#19] / South swept this game after going down by one in the first to win the Kiwanis championship.
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01/22/09 / Crookston / W: 4 - 1 / [#25 in A] / South allows 12 shots, controls play but lacks scoring.

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As of now they're 14-1-1 Overall, with the Tie to Moorhead and a question mark loss to Bismarck.

To me it's a shame they don't compete against more higher level teams like Moorhead and White Bear, especially later in the season, which would give a much better example of how well they'd do in Minnesota.

Does Fargo South even have space on their schedule for any more Minnesota teams??? If South played in section 8aa they would be playing in St. Paul in March. Beyond that is anyone's guess. Will they win the ND championship this year or is Red River high too good???? Are any teams out of the West any good or is it going to be the normal second EDC tourney at the Ralph????

[HockeyHigh]

Does Fargo South even have space on their schedule for any more Minnesota teams??? If South played in section 8aa they would be playing in St. Paul in March. Beyond that is anyone's guess. Will they win the ND championship this year or is Red River high too good???? Are any teams out of the West any good or is it going to be the normal second EDC tourney at the Ralph????

I don't see why, but North Dakota is strict on their 21 game schedule for High School teams, and only allows one weekend of scrimmages at the start of the year. They should really change this, or I think that the top EDC teams should start dropping any non-conference games and try to schedule ranked teams in Minnesota to improve. The only problem is that ND seems to have trouble keeping up with the consistent skill that Minnesota has. Red River last year was incredible, yet they are down from last year by a lot in my opinion, whereas GFC seems to be a lot better.

South has so far swept EDC with wins over Grafton 7-3 (Plays them again on Thursday), Red River 4-3 and 6-3, and Central 4-1. South's only loss came to Bismarck 5-2, but they had some controversy over how they played (rolled all their lines, played backup goalie, etc). WDA looks better than it usually does based on this game alone.

[puck81]

I had noticed Fargo South's big win against White Bear earlier this year and was wondering how good they were and it sounds as if they are a pretty good club. I think they would give section 8AA all they could handle this year. They need to be able to increase the number of games they play and get more games against Minnesota teams. Happy duck hunting!

[HockeyHigh]

I had noticed Fargo South's big win against White Bear earlier this year and was wondering how good they were and it sounds as if they are a pretty good club. I think they would give section 8AA all they could handle this year. They need to be able to increase the number of games they play and get more games against Minnesota teams. Happy duck hunting!

They don't have an option of increasing the number of games thanks to the NDHSAA, same applies for all North Dakota teams. I only think it hurts the teams with a such a low cap at 21 games excluding EDC/State.

Here's their stats sheet for this year so far:
http://ndhighschoolhockey.com/NorthDako ... teamid=173

[ACTUALFORMERPLAYER]

I had noticed Fargo South's big win against White Bear earlier this year and was wondering how good they were and it sounds as if they are a pretty good club. I think they would give section 8AA all they could handle this year. They need to be able to increase the number of games they play and get more games against Minnesota teams. Happy duck hunting!

They don't have an option of increasing the number of games thanks to the NDHSAA, same applies for all North Dakota teams. I only think it hurts the teams with a such a low cap at 21 games excluding EDC/State.

Here's their stats sheet for this year so far:
http://ndhighschoolhockey.com/NorthDako ... teamid=173

Could you explain the drawbacks of the 21 game cap to the morons at the MSHL that are proposing reducing the games in MN.

[nipeshow18]

I have seen Fargo South play twice this year, once against WBL and the other this past saturday against Red River. They play pretty well, but they are extremely cocky in my mind. On Saturday they got complacent with their lead against Red River and saw the 3 goal lead vanish in a matter of 8 minutes. They seem to be well coached as they bounced back in the third completely dominating. I definitely think they would have a legit shot at going to state this year in 8AA, but I do not think they would do so well against the top 10-15 teams in the state.

[HockeyHigh]

Could you explain the drawbacks of the 21 game cap to the morons at the MSHL that are proposing reducing the games in MN.

Honestly I'd love to, but they wouldn't listen to anyone. The NDSHAA is far worse, trust me. A reduction in the number of games really detracts from the playing experience of High Schoolers. In fact, the reason a lot of players are jumping from High School to Juniors is because of the fact that you get hardly any games in the High School level, and although practicing a lot makes you better, there is no experience like playing at a high level in a real game. I think a 21 game cap that they use in ND is far too little, whereas a 25-30 game cap would be far more suiting as to allow more out of conference games. In the east, South plays 14 games that are conference, leaving only 7 games for out of conference play where 3 of those are already taken by a tournament in Rochester. This is the same for most teams in the East, and gets even worse when they don't have 4 point games against weaker teams.

I have seen Fargo South play twice this year, once against WBL and the other this past Saturday against Red River. They play pretty well, but they are extremely cocky in my mind. On Saturday they got complacent with their lead against Red River and saw the 3 goal lead vanish in a matter of 8 minutes. They seem to be well coached as they bounced back in the third completely dominating. I definitely think they would have a legit shot at going to state this year in 8AA, but I do not think they would do so well against the top 10-15 teams in the state.

South did already tie Moorhead (when they were rolling teams at the start of the year, doing very very well, ranked 8 at the time), beat White Bear pretty handily, but gave up a few goals late that make it seem close (ranked seven at the time of the game), and creamed Apple Valley at #19 5-1 in Rochester. They also beat a Century team that seems to be a surprising team, as they did beat Duluth East... who has been ranked everywhere in the top 3-4 in the state this year. I know the transitive property doesn't exist in hockey, but I do think South would do just fine against the top 10 teams in Minnesota.
Again, I really do wish these teams had more opportunities to expand their schedule to face higher level teams in non-conference play to see how good they really are, but it probably won't ever happen.

[Goldy Gopher]

Why is the loss to Bismark a question mark? From looking at their schedule it appears that they're pretty evenly matched.

[HockeyHigh]

Why is the loss to Bismark a question mark? From looking at their schedule it appears that they're pretty evenly matched.

Here's an excerpt from one of the threads on the game...

today bismarck was the better team. once south plays its real varsity team then we'll see what happens if these two teams play in state. i.m.o. south with all its real varsity players playing and not having 4 of its top 10 players sitting out the score would be south wins by 4 or 5. just my opinion by what ive seen from them this season

From http://northdakotapreps.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6231

There's also two other threads on the game (one in the WDA forum and the Game of the Week thread), but the question mark comes from this thread.
It's just very odd for a team that had been clicking so well to do so poorly both offensively and defensively in a game at home.

[Goldy Gopher]

Why is the loss to Bismark a question mark? From looking at their schedule it appears that they're pretty evenly matched.

Here's an excerpt from one of the threads on the game...

today bismarck was the better team. once south plays its real varsity team then we'll see what happens if these two teams play in state. i.m.o. south with all its real varsity players playing and not having 4 of its top 10 players sitting out the score would be south wins by 4 or 5. just my opinion by what ive seen from them this season

From http://northdakotapreps.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=6231

There's also two other threads on the game (one in the WDA forum and the Game of the Week thread), but the question mark comes from this thread.
It's just very odd for a team that had been clicking so well to do so poorly both offensively and defensively in a game at home.

The results from common opponents support the idea that these are two pretty evenly matched teams.

[HockeyHigh]

The results from common opponents support the idea that these are two pretty evenly matched teams.

I'm not saying Bismarck isn't a good team in any sense, they have a good chance of making noise at state this year. However, It's more odd that Bismarck basically blew out Fargo South in that game, scoring 5 goals on a team that's averaging 1.75 GAA and only letting 2 Goals Against when they're averaging 5.5 Goals For.
Their schedules are hardly correlated, as one is from the WDA and one is from the EDC. The two teams they have in common outside of their game combine for a total of 5 EDC wins, and those games would hardly even be counted in the PS2 rankings. As for them playing each other again, their only chance to see each other again is at State in 3 weeks, so we'll see.

However, the thread is about their Minnesotan competition, not their ND competition.

[defense]

I have seen Fargo South play twice this year, once against WBL and the other this past saturday against Red River. They play pretty well, but they are extremely cocky in my mind. On Saturday they got complacent with their lead against Red River and saw the 3 goal lead vanish in a matter of 8 minutes. They seem to be well coached as they bounced back in the third completely dominating. I definitely think they would have a legit shot at going to state this year in 8AA, but I do not think they would do so well against the top 10-15 teams in the state.

A Fargo team got cocky???? noooooo... that neverrrrr happens....

[HockeyHigh]

A Fargo team got cocky???? noooooo... that neverrrrr happens....

Well, considering there have been 48 State Tournaments in North Dakota, and a Fargo metro team (Including West Fargo, North, South, and Shanley) has so far only won the State Title a total of 6 times, Fargo South (1994, 1999, and 2006) and North (1981, 1982, 1986) both won it 3 times, and neither West Fargo or Shanley has ever won it. I don't think they have much to brag about, other than an incredible turnaround in the back half of the century compared to the first couple decades.

Here's the list (since it took me a long time to find... actually)
North Dakota Boys State Hockey Champions
1961 Grand Forks Central
1962 Grand Forks Central
1963 Grand Forks Central
1964 Grand Forks Central
1965 Grand Forks Central
1966 Grand Forks Central
1967 Grand Forks Central
1968 Grand Forks Central
1969 Grand Forks Central
1970 Grand Forks Central
1971 Grand Forks Central
1972 Grand Forks Central
1973 Grand Forks Central
1974 Grand Forks Red River
1975 Grand Forks Central
1976 Grand Forks Central
1977 Grand Forks Central
1978 Grafton
1979 Grand Forks Central
1980 Grand Forks Central
1981 Fargo North
1982 Fargo North
1983 Grand Forks Central
1984 Grand Forks Central
1985 Grafton
1986 Fargo North
1987 Grand Forks Red River
1988 Grand Forks Red River
1989 Grand Forks Red River
1990 Grand Forks Red River
1991 Grafton-Park River
1992 Minot
1993 Grand Forks Central
1994 Fargo South
1995 Grand Forks Central
1996 Grand Forks Red River
1997 Grand Forks Red River
1998 Grand Forks Red River
1999 Fargo South
2000 Grand Forks Red River
2001 Grand Forks Red River
2002 Grafton-Park River
2003 Grand Forks Central
2004 Grand Forks Central
2005 Grand Forks Red River
2006 Fargo South
2007 Grand Forks Red River
2008 Grafton

[hshckfan08]

Well it looks like Grand Forks pretty much has a state title on lock every year.

[HockeyHigh]

Well it looks like Grand Forks pretty much has a state title on lock every year.

Haha, you're correct on that. I don't remember a time when Grand Forks didn't have at least one team competing legitimately for the state title. It's a very rare occasion for there not to be at least one GF team in the state title game, if not even both of them earlier in the lineage. It has gotten more competitive lately, but the Grand Forks dominance is still there. Grafton and South have been slipping in a few times in the past few years with some stellar teams.

[hshckfan08]

Honestly, i'm a little surprised that Fargo teams haven't strung a few championships together at all really. With a city of that size, 90,000 in North Dakota ( no offense), you would think they would have a top team in the state fairly consistently

[HockeyHigh]

Honestly, i'm a little surprised that Fargo teams haven't strung a few championships together at all really. With a city of that size, 90,000 in North Dakota ( no offense), you would think they would have a top team in the state fairly consistently

The problem is tradition, in my opinion. Fargo South and West Fargo have a strong tradition of Football. West Fargo holds the most AAA football championships on record, and South won it 3 times in the last four years. This leads kids growing up in the area to be brought into a Football (or whatever sport their town excels in) style of play rather than excelling in another sport like Hockey. After the tradition picks up (like it has lately in Fargo, see the Force), they should start doing better regardless of population. Grand Forks has always had great hockey tradition, as has Grafton (but lacks the population), especially with the Englestad arenas and the Sioux. Tradition is a big part of building talent. Just ask Roseau. Even with Davies going up which will split South's student population (they will struggle for a few years again), I believe in the future that the state championships will even out a lot more than they have lately, simply because of more hockey in action around Fargo. Other than that, the population of Fargo is split up between what will now be 5 schools, Shanley, West Fargo, Fargo North, Fargo South, and Fargo Davies.

On top of that, South has just been the 2nd or 3rd team the past few years.

Last year South took 3rd, in 2007 they took second, and in 2006 they won it. In 2005 they were upset by a Red River team that came to play and took second.
They're just having trouble, as you put it, stringing them together.

[defense]

Honestly, i'm a little surprised that Fargo teams haven't strung a few championships together at all really. With a city of that size, 90,000 in North Dakota ( no offense), you would think they would have a top team in the state fairly consistently

Yah, you would think at some point that Fargo South or North would anyway. Shanley is building and West Fargo just started being competitve. I competed against Fargo teams a lot, and they always seemed pretty content to look down their noses at you....untill you were up by 4 or 5, then they would start getting cheap and the game would get ugly.

To their credit the games were always competitive.

[HockeyHigh]

Honestly, i'm a little surprised that Fargo teams haven't strung a few championships together at all really. With a city of that size, 90,000 in North Dakota ( no offense), you would think they would have a top team in the state fairly consistently

Yah, you would think at some point that Fargo South or North would anyway. Shanley is building and West Fargo just started being competitve. I competed against Fargo teams a lot, and they always seemed pretty content to look down their noses at you....untill you were up by 4 or 5, then they would start getting cheap and the game would get ugly.

To their credit the games were always competitive.

Fargo South seems to have done fine against who they've played, and although Grafton and Red River are down compared to last year, they, as well as Central make some strong EDC competition. I think that South would do just fine in Minnesota, and go at least .500 with the top 10 teams in Minnesota at this point. They beat Grafton 4-1 last night to continue their streak and it's another 4 games until they play another big EDC competitor. If they can pull through in EDC and State it could end up being one of the best teams from the Fargo area.
Shame is, after this year, although West Fargo and Shanley are building, South is graduating ten seniors, and four of them are defense and will definitely hurt them for next year. Their JV team is very unimpressive as well (lost to Grafton's JV, who I wouldn't really expect to be spectacular when they have so few kids) so they could be in the hurt bag, along with the school getting split up soon. Fargo'll have trouble again coming up in a few years, so they'd better make the most of this one.

[defense]

Honestly, i'm a little surprised that Fargo teams haven't strung a few championships together at all really. With a city of that size, 90,000 in North Dakota ( no offense), you would think they would have a top team in the state fairly consistently

Yah, you would think at some point that Fargo South or North would anyway. Shanley is building and West Fargo just started being competitve. I competed against Fargo teams a lot, and they always seemed pretty content to look down their noses at you....untill you were up by 4 or 5, then they would start getting cheap and the game would get ugly.

To their credit the games were always competitive.

Fargo South seems to have done fine against who they've played, and although Grafton and Red River are down compared to last year, they, as well as Central make some strong EDC competition. I think that South would do just fine in Minnesota, and go at least .500 with the top 10 teams in Minnesota at this point. They beat Grafton 4-1 last night to continue their streak and it's another 4 games until they play another big EDC competitor. If they can pull through in EDC and State it could end up being one of the best teams from the Fargo area.
Shame is, after this year, although West Fargo and Shanley are building, South is graduating ten seniors, and four of them are defense and will definitely hurt them for next year. Their JV team is very unimpressive as well (lost to Grafton's JV, who I wouldn't really expect to be spectacular when they have so few kids) so they could be in the hurt bag, along with the school getting split up soon. Fargo'll have trouble again coming up in a few years, so they'd better make the most of this one.

Will Fargo add a youth program too? I would assume they'd want to have one to feed Davies high school.

[HockeyHigh]

Will Fargo add a youth program too? I would assume they'd want to have one to feed Davies high school.

I don't believe so. It'd probably require a lot of money to fund yet another youth program in Fargo, so I think it's just the Flyers program being the feeder for both teams. However, I haven't even looked into that at all, so I don't know.