White Bear Lake-Ups and Downs

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:19 pm

oh and who ever said that white bear kids arent prepared for the next level, have you ever heard of taylor johnson or jake hansen? well if you watch gopher hockey youll see jake hansen...taylor is playing for a juniors team if i remember correctly...
just throwin that out there

E · Post by E » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:27 pm

blanco oso wrote:oh and who ever said that white bear kids arent prepared for the next level, have you ever heard of taylor johnson or jake hansen? well if you watch gopher hockey youll see jake hansen...taylor is playing for a juniors team if i remember correctly...
just throwin that out there

and what about Ryan Carter? he only plays for the Ducks, and won a stanley cup

wbmd · Post by **wbmd** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

E wrote:
blanco oso wrote:oh and who ever said that white bear kids arent prepared for the next level, have you ever heard of taylor johnson or jake hansen? well if you watch gopher hockey youll see jake hansen...taylor is playing for a juniors team if i remember correctly...
just throwin that out there
and what about Ryan Carter? he only plays for the Ducks, and won a stanley cup

And thankfully Carter never had the displeasure of playing for Sager.

HockeyHigh · Post by **HockeyHigh** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 pm

wbmd wrote:
E wrote:
blanco oso wrote:oh and who ever said that white bear kids arent prepared for the next level, have you ever heard of taylor johnson or jake hansen? well if you watch gopher hockey youll see jake hansen...taylor is playing for a juniors team if i remember correctly...
just throwin that out there
and what about Ryan Carter? he only plays for the Ducks, and won a stanley cup
And thankfully Carter never had the displeasure of playing for Sager.

And thankfully Carter never had the displeasure of meeting you. Don't demean a coach behind a name, animosity can be an evil thing.

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:50 pm

would you rather play for sager or housley?

HockeyHigh · Post by **HockeyHigh** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:53 pm

blanco oso wrote:would you rather play for sager or housley?

I fill in the box labeled "Other" and write in "Alexander Ovechkin". At least that way the kids will be learning some incredibly skilled stick handling moves for the highlight tapes.

biscuit in the basket · Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:34 pm

blanco oso wrote:oh and who ever said that white bear kids arent prepared for the next level, have you ever heard of taylor johnson or jake hansen? well if you watch gopher hockey youll see jake hansen...taylor is playing for a juniors team if i remember correctly...
just throwin that out there

Both kids are doing great but Taylor is in his 2nd season at Green Bay and Jake is finally starting to turn it up after a slow start.
So I dont know exactly how well they were prepared before leaving WB?

mnpuckster · Post by **mnpuckster** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:18 pm

To get to my point. Since Sager has come here, the bar has seemed to rise even higher. And he has not delivered on what I, and I'm sure others have hoped for. But in all fairness, he can't be blamed for alot of things that have happened either. In 03' "senior goalie of the year" Jon Anderson gives up three third period goals blowing a 3-1 lead against Roseville to be knocked out of the first round. In 05', arguably the top team in the state loses to Duluth East blowing yet again another 3rd period lead. In 06' double OT thriller loss to Hill coming from a 3-0 deficit after he took a great timeout to regroup his team in the 2nd period. And same old tune the last couple years in the last two section championships to a Hill team that one state last year.

Lets not knock Jon Anderson at all here. If you remember correctly, he stood on his head for 3 periods to beat that Centennail team at the fairgrounds. Maybe the best goaltending I have seen in a Section final

WBLHockeyfan04 · Post by **WBLHockeyfan04** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:41 pm

I am not knocking him at all. He really needed to back up his word that game, because he guaranteed them as a state team after they knocked off Hill in the semis. I believe he made around 35 to 40 saves in that game, and was terrific.

Anyways, I was only pointing that out because he was so great most of that year except for that 3rd period state game. Which I thought he let in some weak goals. I was first row right behind him in the 3rd period, and I thought that team was going to be the team to get over the hump

BarryMcConnell · Post by **BarryMcConnell** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:47 am

We should probably leave Taylor Johnson and Jake Hansen out of the conversation seeing as though they both left early to go to juniors....Because of Sager!!! And even if we were to keep them in the conversation why would Sager not allow these kids to come back during Christmas break and skate with the varsity squad? He'll take credit for their successes though, won't he? Please don't ever associate Ryan Carter with Sager again. That offends me!!

As for all the stats on previous years....WB's talent had a big skid in the '96 and '97 years. Did we mention that the '96 team went to state with an under .500 record? Oh, and yep....they lost the first game. No it's not a complex, it's fact!! Since then there have been 4 different coaches Schwartz, Hurt (I won't even comment on this one), Butters and now Sager. Each coach, new system. Notice we hadn't commented on him until now. He's had plenty of years now to implement his "plan" but I don't want to get into X's and O's or gunners, backers and quarterbacks.

formerlybackofnet · Post by **formerlybackofnet** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:22 am

BarryMcConnell wrote:We should probably leave Taylor Johnson and Jake Hansen out of the conversation seeing as though they both left early to go to juniors....Because of Sager!!! And even if we were to keep them in the conversation why would Sager not allow these kids to come back during Christmas break and skate with the varsity squad? He'll take credit for their successes though, won't he? Please don't ever associate Ryan Carter with Sager again. That offends me!!

As for all the stats on previous years....WB's talent had a big skid in the '96 and '97 years. Did we mention that the '96 team went to state with an under .500 record? Oh, and yep....they lost the first game. No it's not a complex, it's fact!! Since then there have been 4 different coaches Schwartz, Hurt (I won't even comment on this one), Butters and now Sager. Each coach, new system. Notice we hadn't commented on him until now. He's had plenty of years now to implement his "plan" but I don't want to get into X's and O's or gunners, backers and quarterbacks.

With all the bashing you have done on this thread, I'm sure everyone is concerned about "offending you!"

Post by **karl(east)** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:11 am

BarryMcConnell wrote: We should probably leave Taylor Johnson and Jake Hansen out of the conversation seeing as though they both left early to go to juniors....Because of Sager!!! And even if we were to keep them in the conversation why would Sager not allow these kids to come back during Christmas break and skate with the varsity squad? He'll take credit for their successes though, won't he? Please don't ever associate Ryan Carter with Sager again. That offends me!!

As for all the stats on previous years....WB's talent had a big skid in the '96 and '97 years. Did we mention that the '96 team went to state with an under .500 record? Oh, and yep....they lost the first game. No it's not a complex, it's fact!! Since then there have been 4 different coaches Schwartz, Hurt (I won't even comment on this one), Butters and now Sager. Each coach, new system. Notice we hadn't commented on him until now. He's had plenty of years now to implement his "plan" but I don't want to get into X's and O's or gunners, backers and quarterbacks.

Oh dear. Where to start?

1. While Sager may have played a role in the departure of several key players (I wouldn't be the one to know), I hope that there were many, many more reasons for that decision. Every program loses a few kids along the way. A number have lost more than WBL. Some of these may also have been based on coaching. And none of these other coaches are being thrown under the bus half as much as Sager is.

2. You take personal affront with tying Sager to the success of a hockey player? Good lord, what did Sager do, eat your children or something? It may be wrong of him, but seriously...

3. "WB's talent had a big skid in the '96 and '97 years. Did we mention that the '96 team went to state with an under .500 record?"
Um, what relevance does this have to anything? I pointed out that I was unimpressed by WBL's run of tourney appearances in the mid-90s, and that they were awful in 96-97 too. The point of this was that they weren't that good even then, but the section was so much weaker that they made it to state a few times. Thus it's not as if the decrease in WBL's trips to State lately are because they were coached amazingly in the past. They were just better relative to their competition. Does anyone really think Hill hasn't been the better team the last 3 years?

4. "No it's not a complex, it's a fact!!"
This is my favorite part of the post. It is perhaps the mother of all false dichotomies.
No one is disputing the factuality of WBL's losing ways. The idea of the complex was an attempt to EXPLAIN WHY they lose. We have a fact, we are trying to figure out why it is so. You're making it sound like it's either-or, which is utterly ridiculous.

5. Next you list a bunch of coaches who had shortish tenures preceding Sager, with similar to slightly worse results. It makes one wonder why such a good program goes through so many coaches so quickly, and if perhaps there's something wrong with the system other than the coaching at the high school level...

6. New systems and Sager having had enough time to implement his plan.
There is a bit truth to this; of course new coaches will require adjustments, and Sager's been around long enough now for most of those to have been made. But I don't see how you can pin a collective team failure that goes back decades on Tim Sager's X's and O's. Again, he may not be the solution, but he's not the problem. And this is high school we're talking about here. There is no mandate to fire coaches who aren't problems.

7. "Notice we hadn't commented on him until now."
Very false. People have been trashing Sager on here for a long time.

Someone tell me if I've missed anything.

310 · Post by **310** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:40 pm

barry Mcconnell your negativity offends me. Take the bashing elsewhere. I realize people will always have an axe to grind - no matter how things are going. In addition to coaching, these kids needs encouragement and leadership. Where else does that come? The parents and fans. It doesn't seem to me that you are much of a mentor with all the negativity you bring to the forum. Lighten up, put your differences aside and start supporting the kids here.

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:06 pm

well i guess we will see how good of a team they are coming down this home stretch.gjerde will be out the next 4 games and weiss is gettin the start tonight so well see how they do

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:16 pm

The WBL parents can't even get along, so why should we think they would like anyone else?

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:03 pm

youngblood08 wrote:The WBL parents can't even get along, so why should we think they would like anyone else?

what are you talking about

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:36 pm

youngblood08 wrote:The WBL parents can't even get along, so why should we think they would like anyone else?

WHAT

MedleyWR · Post by **MedleyWR** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:14 pm

youngblood08 wrote:The WBL parents can't even get along, so why should we think they would like anyone else?

Where does all this stuff come from? I see post after post by disgruntled, uninformed folks taking cheap shots at Sager, and yet the only real evidence presented indicates Sager is a pretty good coach (thanks Hockey Scout and Karl). And now you post this completely untrue denigration of the White Bear parents? I have been to every WBL game this year and have not seen even the slightest disagreement among any of the parents. So now, you're just making stuff up!

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:24 pm

yah youngblood you should probably just stop talking cause you dont even know what this thread is about in the first place, and second of all you have no idea what your talking about

midwesthockeyscout · Post by **midwesthockeyscout** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:31 pm

I am going to step out of my professional element for a minute, and if I overstep my boundaries, I apologize. I keep a perspective of not bashing student-athletes, and I protect coaches as much as I can, because, sometimes, I am asked to deal with a coach for information/fact gathering.

I have a contact in WBL that is involved in the youth association. I DON'T KNOW ALL THE FACTS. EVERYTHING TOLD TO ME IS JUST HERESAY FROM MY CONTACT!!!! I asked him his thoughts.

The criticism by Mr. McConnell is personal and his opinion, and I respect that. But what offends me is the one-sided nature of his criticsm. What I am referring to, Mr. McConnell makes it seem that every coach in the WBL youth program must be something special, and they must all be such fantastic coaches that Sager screws them up.

My contact informed me today that there are two 10th graders skating varsity, one has made 3rd line, one has logged some minutes at D, that played B BANTAM LAST YEAR. NOT A BANTAM..B BANTAM. And, the goalie that I mentioned earlier in this thread that was a 6'? I was told two months ago, HE was playing B Bantam .. was cut off the A-team.

This B bantam goalie, beat out last year's A Bantam goalie to win the JV spot. Actually both JV goalies are B Bantam goalies.

And in reference to the two players that played B bantam, my contact told me that had both those players been on the A bantam team last year, they would have won state.

But for some reason, the 3rd line player was listed as a suckhole, soft and couldn't take a hit... parent issues were a factor - possibly with the goalie, too..

So, can't we criticize the A Bantam coach for failure to recognize/utilize talent (going from B Bantam to varsity in less than one calendar year?), using personal issues (not liking parents) to make decisions directly affecting his hockey team, causing that team to not have the success it could have?

My point is that coaches do things for a reason, and Sager shouldn't be the only one getting ripped here. It seems to me that the youth association, especially at the A Bantam level, is as guilty in WBL as Sager is accused of being. And the A Bantam level is supposed to be the feeder!!!!

Looking at the A Bantam team... it's a little over .500 - because of the competition, but moreso, as my contact says, the talent is NOT there, but it's how you finish that matters, and making state is the goal. So, if the A Bantam coaches are that special, why aren't they more successful than merely above .500??

Can we please refrain from the personal vendettas?

Mr. McConnell?? Why don't you state what level you coach and your team records the past 6 years?

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:22 pm

well that b bantam player scored a goal tonight and rocked a few kids. i know exactly who your talking about and he has played great whenever he has been called out to play so...i dont care if someone played u-16. if they get the spot they did somethin riht and this "b bantam" player has been doing just fine

hockeyxfan01 · Post by **hockeyxfan01** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:55 pm

blanco oso wrote:well that b bantam player scored a goal tonight and rocked a few kids. i know exactly who your talking about and he has played great whenever he has been called out to play so...i dont care if someone played u-16. if they get the spot they did somethin riht and this "b bantam" player has been doing just fine

What he's trying to say is that if these B Bantam kids can make the jump to varsity, they should have made A... and that they didn't may have been because of a coach's personal issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was a criticism on the youth level coaches, not those players. Calm down.

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:59 pm

hockeyxfan01 wrote:
blanco oso wrote:well that b bantam player scored a goal tonight and rocked a few kids. i know exactly who your talking about and he has played great whenever he has been called out to play so...i dont care if someone played u-16. if they get the spot they did somethin riht and this "b bantam" player has been doing just fine
What he's trying to say is that if these B Bantam kids can make the jump to varsity, they should have made A... and that they didn't may have been because of a coach's personal issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was a criticism on the youth level coaches, not those players. Calm down.

well i wasnt not calm...but your right my bad

BarryMcConnell · Post by **BarryMcConnell** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:54 am

Medley,

After reading your post I know who your WB contact is and I do understand why that person is upset. You always want the best for your own kids. I get that. I also know the kids you are talking about and have coached all three of them. They are excellent kids. You were very correct when saying this is heresay and not fact. I was at the tryouts for the bantams and watched every hour. Could that 3rd line guy or the D have played A bantam last year, sure. Would it have made them a State Championship caliber team, don't know. Was he cut unfairly, not at all. The goalie this year that is on JV and not A bantam....look at the A bantam goalies. It was a great battle for those 2 positions this year. Does a goalie make the team because he's 6'? It was not an easy decision. I can assure you there are no personal vendettas on that staff. By the way, the A bantams may be a little over .500 right now. They roll 3 lines, play great schedule and are still developing kids for the high school level. The youth is about developing, not winning.

My beef with the varsity staff has mainly been how they continually lie to the kids, do not promote the kids beyond high school and the lack of communication with the youth level (the feeder system - I agree). I take it personnal because I've coached these kids and still support them. I got a little off subject earlier, sorry. :wink:

I know that my opinion rubs some of you the wrong way, that's ok. I am not the only one to feel this way within WB. And no, not all the youth coaches are "something special" but we do have a good thing going here and have been for a long time. My record the past 6 years is irrelevant because like I've stated before it's about development at the youth level, not winning. Have a great day! :lol:

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:11 am

midwesthockeyscout wrote:I am going to step out of my professional element for a minute, and if I overstep my boundaries, I apologize. I keep a perspective of not bashing student-athletes, and I protect coaches as much as I can, because, sometimes, I am asked to deal with a coach for information/fact gathering.

I have a contact in WBL that is involved in the youth association. I DON'T KNOW ALL THE FACTS. EVERYTHING TOLD TO ME IS JUST HERESAY FROM MY CONTACT!!!! I asked him his thoughts.

The criticism by Mr. McConnell is personal and his opinion, and I respect that. But what offends me is the one-sided nature of his criticsm. What I am referring to, Mr. McConnell makes it seem that every coach in the WBL youth program must be something special, and they must all be such fantastic coaches that Sager screws them up.

My contact informed me today that there are two 10th graders skating varsity, one has made 3rd line, one has logged some minutes at D, that played B BANTAM LAST YEAR. NOT A BANTAM..B BANTAM. And, the goalie that I mentioned earlier in this thread that was a 6'? I was told two months ago, HE was playing B Bantam .. was cut off the A-team.

This B bantam goalie, beat out last year's A Bantam goalie to win the JV spot. Actually both JV goalies are B Bantam goalies.

And in reference to the two players that played B bantam, my contact told me that had both those players been on the A bantam team last year, they would have won state.

But for some reason, the 3rd line player was listed as a suckhole, soft and couldn't take a hit... parent issues were a factor - possibly with the goalie, too..

So, can't we criticize the A Bantam coach for failure to recognize/utilize talent (going from B Bantam to varsity in less than one calendar year?), using personal issues (not liking parents) to make decisions directly affecting his hockey team, causing that team to not have the success it could have?

My point is that coaches do things for a reason, and Sager shouldn't be the only one getting ripped here. It seems to me that the youth association, especially at the A Bantam level, is as guilty in WBL as Sager is accused of being. And the A Bantam level is supposed to be the feeder!!!!

Looking at the A Bantam team... it's a little over .500 - because of the competition, but moreso, as my contact says, the talent is NOT there, but it's how you finish that matters, and making state is the goal. So, if the A Bantam coaches are that special, why aren't they more successful than merely above .500??

Can we please refrain from the personal vendettas?

Mr. McConnell?? Why don't you state what level you coach and your team records the past 6 years?

You went way overboard with this post. Don't go bashing the "A" Bantam coach as there isn't a kid who has played for him, that wouldn't want to play for him every year of his HS career!