BarryMcConnell wrote:My beef with the varsity staff has mainly been how they continually lie to the kids, do not promote the kids beyond high school and the lack of communication with the youth level (the feeder system - I agree). I take it personnal because I've coached these kids and still support them. I got a little off subject earlier, sorry.
Really??
You may have a legitimate beef. I have no association with the WBL program and would not be the one to know.
However, I'd suggest you stick to what you know/do best from now on, because when you don't you make yourself look senselessly angry and quite silly.
The criticisms that remain, once we strip this down (regarding handling of players, honesty, communication, etc.) are internal issues. They will either be resolved there, or if Sager is as bad as you say he is, someone will eventually call him out (to his face and/or the administration, not on some online forum) and he will get what he deserves.
Your passion is evident, but you've chosen the wrong place to air your laundary. Your complaints are not ones that can be easily refuted or denied in this format. But hey, maybe Tom Verducci will read this forum and be inspired to write a book with your name on the cover some day, telling all that was wrong within the WBL program...
After reading your post I know who your WB contact is and I do understand why that person is upset. You always want the best for your own kids. I get that. I also know the kids you are talking about and have coached all three of them. They are excellent kids. You were very correct when saying this is heresay and not fact. I was at the tryouts for the bantams and watched every hour. Could that 3rd line guy or the D have played A bantam last year, sure. Would it have made them a State Championship caliber team, don't know. Was he cut unfairly, not at all. The goalie this year that is on JV and not A bantam....look at the A bantam goalies. It was a great battle for those 2 positions this year. Does a goalie make the team because he's 6'? It was not an easy decision. I can assure you there are no personal vendettas on that staff. By the way, the A bantams may be a little over .500 right now. They roll 3 lines, play great schedule and are still developing kids for the high school level. The youth is about developing, not winning.
My beef with the varsity staff has mainly been how they continually lie to the kids, do not promote the kids beyond high school and the lack of communication with the youth level (the feeder system - I agree). I take it personnal because I've coached these kids and still support them. I got a little off subject earlier, sorry.
I know that my opinion rubs some of you the wrong way, that's ok. I am not the only one to feel this way within WB. And no, not all the youth coaches are "something special" but we do have a good thing going here and have been for a long time. My record the past 6 years is irrelevant because like I've stated before it's about development at the youth level, not winning. Have a great day!
Since I didn't post anything to do with the youth program, I am assuming you meant your post to address the comments by midwesthockeyscout. However, if you are a coach in the WBLYHA, I think that it would be best if you addressed your concerns about Sager through the board or other more private channels. Instead, your anonymous attacks on Sager on this public forum carry the appearance of a personal vendetta, and therefore undermine whatever constructive criticism you may have been able to offer.
If you can't say something nice, don't say anything.
on a lighter note, how about that crushing victory over park last night? bears have won the last 3 out of 4 and play moundsview this weekend. they had a little trouble with them last time, but are at home this time around and should pull out a win. are they to a strong ending to the season?
Barry, you sure are in on a lot of conversations. If you hate sager so much how do you get to hear these conversations??? Are you just hearing one side????? Maybe you should just be a man about it and talk to the coaches face to face. I will bet that the coaches version differs from the players just a bit.
blanco oso wrote:on a lighter note, how about that crushing victory over park last night? bears have won the last 3 out of 4 and play moundsview this weekend. they had a little trouble with them last time, but are at home this time around and should pull out a win. are they to a strong ending to the season?
well depends on how well the second line plays casue first line sure is pulling their weight and third lines isnt doing so bad either. so i think if Wallin, Birki, and Wolter can pull their weight then maybe a strong end.
I see you have ascertained my point. Coaches do things, pick teams, whatever, for a reason. McConnell admits the 3rd line guy had the talent to play A Bantam, but he wasn't selected, for whatever reason. He said it wasn't UNFAIR why he wasn't selected. If you admit that he had the talent to play, and wasn't selected, then, it WAS unfair - to the player. But he had to be cut for a reason other than his ability to play hockey.
I am not directly ripping your A Bantam coach. I was pointing out that coaches do things for a reason and if a kid was more than good enough to go from B Bantam to 3rd line varsity in less than a calendar year, then the A Bantam coach made a "mistake". My INTENT was to show that varsity coaches, A Bantam coaches, squirt coaches make decisions based on what they feel best. I am saying NONE of these coaches should be ripped. It's not like any of them are making money doing it, they do it for the passion of coaching the game of hockey.
If Sager lies to kids. Then he has to look in the mirror and be happy with himself, but maybe it's easier to lie to a kid than to tell him he has no chance. Atleast the little white lie keeps the kid working hard.
And.. in reading your post about the player who got hurt the last day of tryouts, and didn't make the team, because Sager said. 'Don't worry, we saw what you did for us the past two years."... Maybe Sager didn't like what he saw the past two years?? Then he wasn't lying. Mr. McConnell, you posted that this 3rd line varsity player playing A bantam last year may not have made a difference for a state championship. That's fine, but isn't is also fair to say that the player who got hurt and lied to that HE wasn't going to make this varsity team a championship team? Maybe Sager wants to "develop" a younger player, WHILE still winning!!!
I am NOT defending Sager. I don't know him. Never talked to him, haven't had a reason to talk to him, but, I think the record, what did Karl post? (22-7 is his average record, plus two tournaments) that THIS is not satisfactory because Sager sucks as a coach is not a fair statement. Will you only be happy if Sager coaches a 27-0 team every year?
If the youth program is consistently .500, because you're DEVELOPING players as a feeder system, isn't it possible... just possible.... that it's only .500 talent, because that's all it is, and couldn't it be that Sager gets MORE out of them?
Just because you are WBL doesn't mean you have to produce a superstar every year.
My goodness, as a hockey coach, you should know that out of your 1,000 kids that participate every year, the odds are minimal a player will ever advance to play D1.
I have said my peace. I have no animosity towards any indivudual - McConnell, Sager, the A Bantam coach, the players, their dogs or their butchers. I just think the personal attacks on ALL avenues is ridiculous.
I need to finish my thoughts.. I rushed, because I am not a tiny man, and I had chili for lunch.
For the record..... the information I received was neither pro or con Sager - And there wasn't anything bad said about the A Bantam coach, so I don't second guess his respect within the organization. I am like Karl (East) with outisde observations.. My goodness, if Karl can tabulate all those stats and he's impartial, so was I being.... These were strictly MY INTERPRETATIONS as an outside observer.
Gentlemen, as far as plugging your players at the next level and Midwest scout can confirm this; We don't talk to the coaches until we are interested. All of this stuff on here about the high school coach needs to plug his players more or in better ways is malarkey. We know about these kids long before they hit the high school level. After we have a look and like what we see then we talk to the coach about attitude, work ethic, what kind of kid is he etc, etc. We also contact the school to find out about attendance, get comments from teachers in some cases etc. The high school coach plays a part in this with his report and dialogue on attitude and work ethic, what kind of teamate is the player etc.
The biggest thing our organization looks for from a high school coach is work ethic and what kind of kid is he.
I also would question the comments on the coach lying to players. Especially kids that have been let go from the team. If Barry is an adult coach as he says he is then he surely would know that most 15-17 year olds add some flavor to a story to slant it in their direction.
Like I said, I do this for a living and the coach you have in place is very good and you should consider yourselves lucky to have him.
If you are all adults surely you could sit down and settle your differences like men. Sometimes you have to disagree on things but that is no reason to spew hatred at another person. Hockey people we are all out for the same thing good hockey and good times.
I think Barry seems to have come around a little and with a conversation or two I bet you and the high school coaching staff could figure it out.
By the way, I hear there is a peewee coming up in your program that will be worth watching.
Let me clarify some issues here for the dude as Midwesthockeyscout.
First off, I have nothing to hide here, behind these posts. I don't care if people know who I am or not. I am the dad, Tusa, of the JV goalie being mentioned here. I came on to this thread, because when I went to pick Tommy up after school for JV practice, he said kids were talking about this at school, and when my son's name is being thrown out there, I am gonna respond.
First off, I think those of you who know me know I am a realistic, even keeled person that has a unique personality. I don't care what people think about ME!
Next. I will not speak for the other parents or kids cut off the A Bantam team. But I will share my experience and truth.
Tommy was the last goalie cut off A Bantam two years in a row. Last year, my goals for him were to work his butt off so the A Bantam coaches, Hammer and Pudge, would take notice. Not only did he open their eyes, but they REWARDED him for his determination, improvement and work ethic by taking him into the A-Camp as one of three goalies left. When they cut him, they sought ME out to talk to me about how difficult a decision they had in cutting Tommy. How many coaches go to the parents to tell them why they cut their kid?
Tommy became the subject of a lot of banter from many of the coaches and parents on his progress, and I have no one but Hammer and Pudge to THANK for putting him on the map even further than his previous coaches did...
This summer, Tommy dedicated and worked his butt off for year two.
But let me explain this. It wasn't to play B bantam, and it wasn't to play A bantam. His goal, and mine, was to play JV FROM the start. Tommy as a 10th grader wanted to play with his class mates, and play HS hockey, something that I never expected two years ago to ever happen.
Did he enough talent to play A Bantam? Sure he did, and I was disappointed for HIM not to be awarded the spot, but deep down, I was glad he didn't make it, because I didn't think it was fair for them to reward Tommy a spot on the A team, and then for him to try out for JV, and if he made JV, it would have wasted 1.5 months of their time.
But let me make this clear.
In June... I approached Pudge, to discuss the rumors flying around that Tommy wanted to tryout for JV.
I told Pudge honestly and upfront, that selfishly, I did NOT want Tommy playing A bantam hockey
1) as a divorced parent, the expense of A bantams with all the out-of-town tourneys was too much for me to handle. Finacially, A Bantams would have killed me, because
2) I own a business that requires me to work 7 days a week, usually, and I could not afford to take all that time off work to lose sales, and income, plus the expense of the traveling.
I explained to Pudge that, yes, if they selected Tommy to play A bantams, I would make it work, but my preference was he didn't. I didn't want the B Bantam schedule either. I also told him that based on their reputations as coaches, I would be foolish to not want Tommy to play for them.
Pudge and Hammer opened the door to get Tommy to HS, and I have nothing but the greatest respect for them as people.
Any negative sour grapes towards Hammer and Pudge, are unfounded. I know midwesthockeyscout clarified he wasn't ripping them, and I actually understand his comparison between the correlation between Hammer and Pudge vs Sager and the tough decisions they make.
Goldfishdude wrote:Let me clarify some issues here for the dude as Midwesthockeyscout.
First off, I have nothing to hide here, behind these posts. I don't care if people know who I am or not. I am the dad, Tusa, of the JV goalie being mentioned here. I came on to this thread, because when I went to pick Tommy up after school for JV practice, he said kids were talking about this at school, and when my son's name is being thrown out there, I am gonna respond.
First off, I think those of you who know me know I am a realistic, even keeled person that has a unique personality. I don't care what people think about ME!
Next. I will not speak for the other parents or kids cut off the A Bantam team. But I will share my experience and truth.
Tommy was the last goalie cut off A Bantam two years in a row. Last year, my goals for him were to work his butt off so the A Bantam coaches, Hammer and Pudge, would take notice. Not only did he open their eyes, but they REWARDED him for his determination, improvement and work ethic by taking him into the A-Camp as one of three goalies left. When they cut him, they sought ME out to talk to me about how difficult a decision they had in cutting Tommy. How many coaches go to the parents to tell them why they cut their kid?
Tommy became the subject of a lot of banter from many of the coaches and parents on his progress, and I have no one but Hammer and Pudge to THANK for putting him on the map even further than his previous coaches did...
This summer, Tommy dedicated and worked his butt off for year two.
But let me explain this. It wasn't to play B bantam, and it wasn't to play A bantam. His goal, and mine, was to play JV FROM the start. Tommy as a 10th grader wanted to play with his class mates, and play HS hockey, something that I never expected two years ago to ever happen.
Did he enough talent to play A Bantam? Sure he did, and I was disappointed for HIM not to be awarded the spot, but deep down, I was glad he didn't make it, because I didn't think it was fair for them to reward Tommy a spot on the A team, and then for him to try out for JV, and if he made JV, it would have wasted 1.5 months of their time.
But let me make this clear.
In June... I approached Pudge, to discuss the rumors flying around that Tommy wanted to tryout for JV.
I told Pudge honestly and upfront, that selfishly, I did NOT want Tommy playing A bantam hockey
1) as a divorced parent, the expense of A bantams with all the out-of-town tourneys was too much for me to handle. Finacially, A Bantams would have killed me, because
2) I own a business that requires me to work 7 days a week, usually, and I could not afford to take all that time off work to lose sales, and income, plus the expense of the traveling.
I explained to Pudge that, yes, if they selected Tommy to play A bantams, I would make it work, but my preference was he didn't. I didn't want the B Bantam schedule either. I also told him that based on their reputations as coaches, I would be foolish to not want Tommy to play for them.
Pudge and Hammer opened the door to get Tommy to HS, and I have nothing but the greatest respect for them as people.
Any negative sour grapes towards Hammer and Pudge, are unfounded. I know midwesthockeyscout clarified he wasn't ripping them, and I actually understand his comparison between the correlation between Hammer and Pudge vs Sager and the tough decisions they make.
So... let's play hockey!!!
You've got some big nads "Cracker Jack", coming out here with your name tied to a post. How do you support those things?
Mr. Body Shots.. Not sure if you are from WBL.. I assume so... but my posting my name will prevent you or anyone else from ripping my son, next time he gives up 5 goals in a game to Park!!!! If you happen to know who I am.... I am ugly.. I am mean... and I do have awfully big nads that I won't be afraid to sacfrifice for the integrity of WBL Hockey!!!!
Goldfishdude wrote:Mr. Body Shots.. Not sure if you are from WBL.. I assume so... but my posting my name will prevent you or anyone else from ripping my son, next time he gives up 5 goals in a game to Park!!!! If you happen to know who I am.... I am ugly.. I am mean... and I do have awfully big nads that I won't be afraid to sacfrifice for the integrity of WBL Hockey!!!!
White Bears Lake is inconsistant because of their coach. He sucks. Get out if you can. Sagers team will finish strong if he quits babying his cream puff line and builds confidence instead of distrust in the play of the rest of the team. But a bad coach is a bad coach he will go back to his old ways of two lines in the stretch. Hill is living proof. Won a state tournement with three solid lines. Edina could not keep pace with only two lines.
