When to call off the Dawgs?

[PuckRanger]

The MSHSL does not schedule games. The Moorhead and Monticello athletic departments both agreed on scheduling that game.

Last I heard, the MSHSL was still dictating when Section and State Tournament games were to be held. That game was a Section Quarterfinal game.

I stand corrected, I forgot that was a section game. Still, the MSHSL didn't play the season nor seed the teams. Moorhead earned a #1 seed and Monticello earned the #8 seed as determined by the coaches in section 8AA. Almost all 1 vs. 8 playoff games are blowouts - just usually not to this extreme.

[PuckRanger]

2. in-conference games, like I-Falls/Ely. If this gets to be a consistent trend, one team should probably leave the conference if they have any respect for themselves/the other teams in their conference. But until that team makes the call, we're stuck with these blowouts.

The one problem I have with the I-Falls/Ely game is that its NOT a conference game. It probably shouldn't be on the schedule at all. Although Ely did beat Greenway and Greenway did beat I Falls, so...

[karl(east)]

2. in-conference games, like I-Falls/Ely. If this gets to be a consistent trend, one team should probably leave the conference if they have any respect for themselves/the other teams in their conference. But until that team makes the call, we're stuck with these blowouts.

The one problem I have with the I-Falls/Ely game is that its NOT a conference game. It probably shouldn't be on the schedule at all. Although Ely did beat Greenway and Greenway did beat I Falls, so...

Ah, forgot that Ely isn't in the IRC.

It was good to see they bounced back with a win last night over Two Harbors, though. That should restore some dignity.

[GopherPuckPlayer]

The section coaches pretty much decide who plays who in the playoffs at the seeding meeting.

And I don't think you can really argue against them being put in the same section. Both have AA-sized enrollments. It's unfortunate it worked out the way it did, but there's really no one to cast any blame upon.

This is a VERY difficult thing no question. Lets go back to Moorhead v Monticello: Moorhead at the time was having one their best years EVER, undefeated I think, and figured they were headed to their first state championship(as did many, many hockey fans in the state). Monticello has never been good, was the worst in the section, got seeded that way and knew the consequence of being that team. Very tough to not let this one be a blowout. I do however think that knowing what we all knew at the time and proven through the game result something could've been done to stop the game from making the CNN news ticker. (yes it actually did). Remember RESPECT before we start to through Moorhead excuses. The ones of the day were "we had to keep the boys going", it actually would make the other feel worse to lay back." All the boys got a point( I have little problem with that solution). Obviously before the game was ever played this was the outcome, to both teams(even if they wouldn't show it). Common courtesy (something lacking in our society) would've been completely OK with Monticello, trust me....
I could be wrong but I think that in Little Falls' win over Greenway that Hano got like 4 or 5 goals, and not the first 4 or 5 (14-0 win for LF).... and that was something I elluded to in another thread. Great player, go for it all, but is it necassary to have him scoring the 7th or 8th or 10th goals???

With the Hanowski scenario I'd almost always say no, he definitely shouldn't; other people should be playing. But because Hanowski's chasing the all-time state scoring record, that gets to be a shaky argument, and one that no one will probably end up being satisfied with.

HShockeywatcher has a good point about scheduling, too. No strong AA team (or A, for that matter) should be wasting their time playing the worst ones in the state...it doesn't really help anyone. The way a lot of these scenarios arise, though, seem to be
1. 8-vs-1 seed playoff games, which are unavoidable; and
2. in-conference games, like I-Falls/Ely. If this gets to be a consistent trend, one team should probably leave the conference if they have any respect for themselves/the other teams in their conference. But until that team makes the call, we're stuck with these blowouts.

If I were the coach of the winning team in this situation, I'd get creative. Move players to new positions, institute passing rules, try completely different styles of play...it'd probably be fun for my own players, not as obviously embarrassing for the opposition, and who knows, maybe I'd stumble on something useful for a future game.

Well from my stand point from watching Little Falls games Coach Couture has been doing this through the high scoring games. Last night I seen lines that I never seen before, and plays that were like wow that's different. And still playing some of your top liners can be good for the end of the year games to get the kids endurance up for the big section/state games.

[Roseauverrated]

Just curious, has a number 1 seed ever gone down in the first round?

[east hockey]

Just curious, has a number 1 seed ever gone down in the first round?

The following were quarterfinal section games:

In 2000 (Section 6AA), #1 Wayzata lost to #8 Chaska 4-3 in their first game.

In 1999, in 7A they were split into north and south sub-sections #1North seed Eveleth, the defending Class A state champion, was defeated by #4 South seed Duluth Central 6-5.

In 2001, same section, same split into north/south. #1 North seed International Falls lost to #5 South seed Duluth Denfeld 3-2. Also, #1 South seed Duluth Central lost to #4 North seed Virginia 4-3. That was a strange section tournament as we had #3 South seed Duluth Marshall eventually representing 7A at State.

I have a few years prior to 1999 on a spreadsheet but don't have access to that file right now.

Lee

[hockeydad]

In hockey, somewhere along the way it must have happened, but I can't give an example.

In basketball, I was an assistant coach on a team that beat Benson in a district tournament game. They were the 1 seed, we were seeded eight of 8 teams. They had beaten us by 50 points during a Christmas tournament. We actually made it to the district finals. Five wins all year, two of them in the playoffs.

[karl(east)]

This is a VERY difficult thing no question. Lets go back to Moorhead v Monticello: Moorhead at the time was having one their best years EVER, undefeated I think, and figured they were headed to their first state championship(as did many, many hockey fans in the state). Monticello has never been good, was the worst in the section, got seeded that way and knew the consequence of being that team. Very tough to not let this one be a blowout. I do however think that knowing what we all knew at the time and proven through the game result something could've been done to stop the game from making the CNN news ticker. (yes it actually did). Remember RESPECT before we start to through Moorhead excuses. The ones of the day were "we had to keep the boys going", it actually would make the other feel worse to lay back." All the boys got a point( I have little problem with that solution). Obviously before the game was ever played this was the outcome, to both teams(even if they wouldn't show it). Common courtesy (something lacking in our society) would've been completely OK with Monticello, trust me....
I could be wrong but I think that in Little Falls' win over Greenway that Hano got like 4 or 5 goals, and not the first 4 or 5 (14-0 win for LF).... and that was something I elluded to in another thread. Great player, go for it all, but is it necassary to have him scoring the 7th or 8th or 10th goals???

With the Hanowski scenario I'd almost always say no, he definitely shouldn't; other people should be playing. But because Hanowski's chasing the all-time state scoring record, that gets to be a shaky argument, and one that no one will probably end up being satisfied with.

HShockeywatcher has a good point about scheduling, too. No strong AA team (or A, for that matter) should be wasting their time playing the worst ones in the state...it doesn't really help anyone. The way a lot of these scenarios arise, though, seem to be
1. 8-vs-1 seed playoff games, which are unavoidable; and
2. in-conference games, like I-Falls/Ely. If this gets to be a consistent trend, one team should probably leave the conference if they have any respect for themselves/the other teams in their conference. But until that team makes the call, we're stuck with these blowouts.

If I were the coach of the winning team in this situation, I'd get creative. Move players to new positions, institute passing rules, try completely different styles of play...it'd probably be fun for my own players, not as obviously embarrassing for the opposition, and who knows, maybe I'd stumble on something useful for a future game.

Well from my stand point from watching Little Falls games Coach Couture has been doing this through the high scoring games. Last night I seen lines that I never seen before, and plays that were like wow that's different. And still playing some of your top liners can be good for the end of the year games to get the kids endurance up for the big section/state games.

If that's the case, Couture deserves some credit. Since that one Greeway slaughter early in the year they've been keeping their margins of victory to 7 or lower, so I suppose it's working, more or less.

I'd agree about the late season games too...whatever it takes to be in shape for the playoffs. Just get creative and take it easy with them a bit.

[hockeyrinkrat]

ELY AND IFALLS are in the same section 7A. Since that is where the seeding comes from I think that all section teams should play each other - otherwise how do you get a good idea of seeding?

[karl(east)]

ELY AND IFALLS are in the same section 7A. Since that is where the seeding comes from I think that all section teams should play each other - otherwise how do you get a good idea of seeding?

Generally, this is a good idea. Playing many, if not all, of the teams in one's section makes the seeding process a lot easier.

That said, though, there are some games that are such foregone conclusions that they're better off not being scheduled. Had I-Falls not played Ely, I don't think there would have been a crisis over which team should be ranked higher in the section. That's not to say the odd upset can't happen (ask I-Falls about Greenway), but playing teams that you should be beating by 10+ goals doesn't serve much of a purpose, in-section or not.

[RoundBaller]

It's hard to find teams that'll travel to the Falls for a game. I heard the games with Warroad were getting too chippy so they decided to take some time off. Maybe its time to bring them back.

[whos_it]

A couple things. I was at a bantam A game where the better team went up 8 - 0 in the second period. Bantam teams often only carry 13 kids on the A teams. Because of this you can not go to the 3rd and 4th lines. The coach called a time out and obviously (my opinion) told the kids not to shoot anymore. The puck only left the oponents end when they iced it. One player actually skated behind the goalie (between goalie and net) with the puck. My bantam age son commented how he would have rather gotten pummelled than have a team do the "Harlom Globetrotters" thing to us. Who knows, perhaps if it were his team getting the pummeling he would have changed his mind. By the way the score did end 8 - 0 and easily could have been 20 - 0.

About going down the roster and giving more time to the 3rd and 4th lines. This is a great idea for the kids. They all know what is going on. The parents, on the other hand, are a different story. When coaching a game like this, our highschool coach did exactly that. A couple parents used the opporunity to tell our coach "See, you should play "little Joey" more often". Of course when the next game came along and "little Joey" was back on the bench, the parents attempted to schedule meetings with the AD to have him removed. The AD would have none of it but mom's and dad's don't always get that the other teams lack of talent made "little Joey" look awful good.

Just some thoughts that went through my head as I read this.

The bottom line is that you HOPE you never have to coach in a situation like this regardless of which side of the score you are on. With someone, you are going to lose regardless of what approach you take.

[defense]

A couple things. I was at a bantam A game where the better team went up 8 - 0 in the second period. Bantam teams often only carry 13 kids on the A teams. Because of this you can not go to the 3rd and 4th lines. The coach called a time out and obviously (my opinion) told the kids not to shoot anymore. The puck only left the oponents end when they iced it. One player actually skated behind the goalie (between goalie and net) with the puck. My bantam age son commented how he would have rather gotten pummelled than have a team do the "Harlom Globetrotters" thing to us. Who knows, perhaps if it were his team getting the pummeling he would have changed his mind. By the way the score did end 8 - 0 and easily could have been 20 - 0.

About going down the roster and giving more time to the 3rd and 4th lines. This is a great idea for the kids. They all know what is going on. The parents, on the other hand, are a different story. When coaching a game like this, our highschool coach did exactly that. A couple parents used the opporunity to tell our coach "See, you should play "little Joey" more often". Of course when the next game came along and "little Joey" was back on the bench, the parents attempted to schedule meetings with the AD to have him removed. The AD would have none of it but mom's and dad's don't always get that the other teams lack of talent made "little Joey" look awful good.

Just some thoughts that went through my head as I read this.

The bottom line is that you HOPE you never have to coach in a situation like this regardless of which side of the score you are on. With someone, you are going to lose regardless of what approach you take.

In the end I would hope that you or/and your son would understand that his team never had a chance and would appreciate the good sportsmanship and respect given. It is tough to lose like that, but it is what it is.