Section 4A

[08streaker]

you guys are all rediculous its kinda sad actually. honestly sta has won this section twice, and theyre previous one before this twice, theyve made it to state 4 years in a row and just because they are a private school you guys are all over them. worroads made it to state every one of those yrs plus more and noone complains about them making it too much. honestly show some respect for these kids who skate around with a target on their back and still mannage to come out on top 9 times out of 10. i honestly think you guys who complain about private schools have something seriously wrong. its not the kids fault that their parents think that theyll get the best education there so you guys should stop holding that aginst them on the ice too

You would think with your private education you could spell ridiculous right.
Should have sticked with the public schooling.

[lugnutguy21]

lugnutguy21,
where is the line drawn between respect an hate? Hating someone (or a group of someones) because they are good at something is silly. If the hate you have for them is "because they are good" that is awesome. But you would be very naive to believe that is the case for everyone.

Respect and hate... I respect Bret Favre for being the football player he is, and in the same breath hate him because he continues to make the Vikes look bad. On simply for most of his career he had a big "G" on his helmet.

When it comes to sports, "hate" and respect is what breeds rivalries. Wouldn't you agree?? Not silly part of the passion shown by sports fans of all sports.

The "hate" I have for them is because they are good. Not just at hockey either. Or maybe in my case it is because SSP isn't very good. And not just at hockey either.

I don't think I said that was the case for everyone.

[HShockeywatcher]

You're right, you didn't. Nor did I say you did.

I agree completely with you statements about the Packers. Same is true for the Badgers. But generally, it stops there. Yes, at a SSP/STA football,basketball, hockey, etc match up, I would be cheering on the opposite side of the field, but it stops there. That sort of "hate," or what have you, is quite cool. To be "hated" because you are good is an honor. What people do in discussion St Thomas (and no other school public or private) is go above and beyond that, making excuses for losing, trying to get them out of their tournament, and other such silly things taking away from the talents.

I would love to see nothing more than Cretin lose a big game, especially one to St Thomas. But recognizing the talent they have and not taking things away from them when they do well is simply respectful.

That is my biggest concern and confusion about comments made.

If SSP wins, I will be cheering for them along the way. Seeing Wilcox win his team a title would be quite cool.

[lugnutguy21]

....What people do in discussion St Thomas (and no other school public or private) is go above and beyond that, making excuses for losing, trying to get them out of their tournament, and other such silly things taking away from the talents.

I would love to see nothing more than Cretin lose a big game, especially one to St Thomas. But recognizing the talent they have and not taking things away from them when they do well is simply respectful. ......

The only reason I was brought into this thread was because it was STA we were talking about. And the passion I have for SSP.

Understood. But I remember a year ago some, and not all posters on this board were upset at other private schools. Saying such things about how the teams are loaded and should have to play in their own "Private School Class". That was the thought behind this bringing me back to my first post saying"... it is after all a private school. Their parents pay the tuition, thus they can go to which ever private school they or their parents want."

However being raised the way I was. My father would and still gets excited to see one or two Catholic Private schools in the finals. As do I. Good Luck to all. Go Pack!

[dherman8]

I don't want this to become the conversation but here is the cold hard truth. Warroad doesn't play primarily a AA schedule. The fact that STA has not only been able to play with top class AA teams over the past years but actually beat them is one of the number of large parts of this argument. STA played in the gold division of the Schwan Cup, I mean, come on. People also don't argue Warroad to AA because of the size of the city. Honestly, STA has about as many kids enrolled in the school as Warroad has people. That isn't even an argument. And finally, being that this was supposed to be more of a rebuilding year and STA still stayed atop the polls, the future looks to hold some more championships.

Why does nobody give Mahtomedi any credit? Doesn't seem like many are picking them over SSP.

[hockeykid15]

... and just because they are a private school you guys are all over them. ... show some respect for these kids who skate around with a target on their back and still mannage to come out on top 9 times out of 10. i honestly think you guys who complain about private schools have something seriously wrong. its not the kids fault that their parents think that theyll get the best education there so you guys should stop holding that aginst them on the ice too

First of all I hate STA. Mainly cause they are better than a lot of teams. Being a former SSP Packer makes it more frustrating.

But that aside the fact that most people hate all private schools is ridiculous. After the fact that we have open enrollment in this state, it is after all a private school. Their parents pay the tuition, thus they can go to which ever private school they or their parents want. End of Story.

Almost, just cause they have a target on their backs means we need to show some respect? Did North Stars fans show respect to the Black Hawks in the 80's and 90's? I used to hate those guys. Now a Wild fan I hate the Avs, Ducks, Flames and Stars(but thats a different story) because they are good, and they beat my/our team. Its part of life, taking the ribbing and go home.

Pack in OT

Haha so you hate STA because for the past years i don't think SSP has beat STA in ANYTHING at all. thats funny.

Cadets have it, not saying it'll be easy, but thats my pick

[hockeykid15]

I don't want this to become the conversation but here is the cold hard truth. Warroad doesn't play primarily a AA schedule. The fact that STA has not only been able to play with top class AA teams over the past years but actually beat them is one of the number of large parts of this argument. STA played in the gold division of the Schwan Cup, I mean, come on. People also don't argue Warroad to AA because of the size of the city. Honestly, STA has about as many kids enrolled in the school as Warroad has people. That isn't even an argument. And finally, being that this was supposed to be more of a rebuilding year and STA still stayed atop the polls, the future looks to hold some more championships.

Why does nobody give Mahtomedi any credit? Doesn't seem like many are picking them over SSP.

YOur numbers are wrong because the actual amount of kids that attend St. Thomas Academy, the highschool, is about 450. Worroads enrolment is about 400. there is no way wat you are saying is correct. you may think it is because the enrolment everyone sees for STA is doubled because they are all male and includes the middle school. Also, STA did play in the gold division, but the went 1 and 2, winning the seventh place game. I just think it is rediculous how just cause a school, or in this case a private school has a good couple of years, 4 straight making it to the tourney to be exact, everyone jumps on them to move up. I mean maybe STA just had a couple good classes to come through the school, only time will tell. I do know that there are kids rostered now that were also rostered the first year sta ever won state. My Point is, they've proven they can play with double a teams as of late,but what happens if they do make the jump, kids graduate, and they become another mediocre team when they could still be down in single a- where they are assigned

[hockeykid15]

you guys are all rediculous its kinda sad actually. honestly sta has won this section twice, and theyre previous one before this twice, theyve made it to state 4 years in a row and just because they are a private school you guys are all over them. worroads made it to state every one of those yrs plus more and noone complains about them making it too much. honestly show some respect for these kids who skate around with a target on their back and still mannage to come out on top 9 times out of 10. i honestly think you guys who complain about private schools have something seriously wrong. its not the kids fault that their parents think that theyll get the best education there so you guys should stop holding that aginst them on the ice too

You would think with your private education you could spell ridiculous right.
Should have sticked with the public schooling.

All i'm gonna say is have fun pumping gas into my Audi in about ten years

[HShockeywatcher]

dherman8, why aren't you arguing for Roseau to stay in class A? They play a Class A schedule...

The only thing class should determine is an enrollment. I'm guessing St Thomas scheduling these AA teams has little to do with them being AA and more to do with them being better quality teams.

Not sure why we are discussing enrollment. Plain and simple, both schools' enrollments put them in class A.

"That isn't even an argument."
Show me the poster suggesting that Warroad should be in AA...you can't. No one is saying they should be. What I am saying, on the other hand, is that a better good argument for needing to be in AA can be made for them than for St Thomas, not that they should be there. Neither team should be.

Not sure how anyone could consider a year in which a player who was offered to play for the NTDP is still on the team a rebuilding year. They did lose 7 defensive seniors last year, but there were obviously players to replace them.

"Why does nobody give Mahtomedi any credit? Doesn't seem like many are picking them over SSP."
Mahtomedi is 0-2 against SSP this season. That's why. If you've read any of my posts you'd know I give them a fair shot if they can get past SSP, although that is not highly likely.

[Rocky Dennis]

ok, I have read through most of the posts on here and I think people strayed away from some good topics that came up. St. Thomas won the Suburban Conference over the State AA champions- so why should they not move up to AA?

Second, for a long time St. Thomas would get beaten handily by most of the Suburban Conference. All of the sudden the Vannellis get in there and they are perennial State participants. I don't think there is any recruiting going on there- yeah right. Herb Brooks could not have taken the garbage hockey players they had for years and won.

The whole thing is garbage. Money and political connections can get you very far in this world and it is sad it has filtered down into Minnesota High School Hockey.

[adamp1914]

adamp1914,
that is an interesting perspective and actually makes sense.

That being said, doesn't that go back to what lugnutguy21 said though? Both SSP and Maht tied STA this year. This section is open. If STA makes it this year, shouldn't any hate be directed toward other teams for stepping up and taking STA down? If you are right in that there are 2 or 3 other teams yearly who could make it, why is it their fault they aren't getting beat?

I just said that those are the types of arguments I've heard. You can't really refute something unless you can show that you understand the argument from the other side first. I was pretty clear that I didn't agree because the sampling of athletic success is way too brief and way too small.

RockyDennis. STA has not shown a long enough streak of such dominance to consider moving up. The statistical sample of success is way too small and isn't even continuous. In fact, SSP and MAhtomedi BOTH have a larger number of section championships. So why isn't anyone saying that they should be AA too?

STA won one conference title over the AA champion. So what? In the 70s SSP won a STATE title over Edina. Does that mean they should be AA too? One conference title cannot be enough proof that they should advance in any stretch of the imagination. You make it sound like kids don't graduate. Just because they are good now doesn't mean they are going to continue to be good indefinitely. If they win like 7, 8, 9 more titles over AA schools, sure, then that conclusion might follow. Right now, it cannot.

"Second, for a long time St. Thomas would get beaten handily by most of the Suburban Conference." - Exactly. Who's to say that won't ever be the case again? You can't. No one can because the continued dominance isn't established yet. This is an argument FOR keeping them in class A.

dherman: you obviously didn't read the entire thread before you posted.

It's already been proven that enrollment has nothing to do with being A or AA. This can be proven with one word. Roseau.

I'd also like to add that at this level great rivalries stem from things beyond 'hate' and 'respect.' Respect is part of it, but at this level, all of the best rivalries happen because most of the kids on the opposing teams are from the same area and they know each other. There's very few rivalries between schools that are far apart (the only one that comes to mind is Edina and Grand Rapids).. The rivalries are built from respect, and the relationships of the players. Look at all the rivalries. Roseau - Warroad. St Paul Saints - Como. Hill Murray - White Bear Lake. Edina - Minnetonka. St. Thomas - Cretin. Breck - Blake. Lourdes - Century. Mayo - Lourdes. (pretty much any Rochester match up). There's tons of others, but you get the idea. Since the players usually know each other, there is also pride and bragging rights involved with rivalry building.

[deacon]

ok, I have read through most of the posts on here and I think people strayed away from some good topics that came up. St. Thomas won the Suburban Conference over the State AA champions- so why should they not move up to AA?

Second, for a long time St. Thomas would get beaten handily by most of the Suburban Conference. All of the sudden the Vannellis get in there and they are perennial State participants. I don't think there is any recruiting going on there- yeah right. Herb Brooks could not have taken the garbage hockey players they had for years and won.

The whole thing is garbage. Money and political connections can get you very far in this world and it is sad it has filtered down into Minnesota High School Hockey.

ummm....hahaha

[dherman8]

I don't want this to become the conversation but here is the cold hard truth. Warroad doesn't play primarily a AA schedule. The fact that STA has not only been able to play with top class AA teams over the past years but actually beat them is one of the number of large parts of this argument. STA played in the gold division of the Schwan Cup, I mean, come on. People also don't argue Warroad to AA because of the size of the city. Honestly, STA has about as many kids enrolled in the school as Warroad has people. That isn't even an argument. And finally, being that this was supposed to be more of a rebuilding year and STA still stayed atop the polls, the future looks to hold some more championships.

Why does nobody give Mahtomedi any credit? Doesn't seem like many are picking them over SSP.

YOur numbers are wrong because the actual amount of kids that attend St. Thomas Academy, the highschool, is about 450. Worroads enrolment is about 400. there is no way wat you are saying is correct. you may think it is because the enrolment everyone sees for STA is doubled because they are all male and includes the middle school. Also, STA did play in the gold division, but the went 1 and 2, winning the seventh place game. I just think it is rediculous how just cause a school, or in this case a private school has a good couple of years, 4 straight making it to the tourney to be exact, everyone jumps on them to move up. I mean maybe STA just had a couple good classes to come through the school, only time will tell. I do know that there are kids rostered now that were also rostered the first year sta ever won state. My Point is, they've proven they can play with double a teams as of late,but what happens if they do make the jump, kids graduate, and they become another mediocre team when they could still be down in single a- where they are assigned

If they move up and do exactly what you say at least they'll have more respect for it. Your reasoning is insane because the only thing that hasn't made them a double A squad this decade is that they don't play in the double A state tournament. They have been playing primarily a double A schedule over the past years because with their conference and available teams they have to. Are you guys really that blind that you can't see they are an eighth grader picking a fight with a third grader? Congratulations for winning.

hockeykid- the fact that STA went 1-2 at the Scwan Cup has nothing to do with it. The fact that they are coming off a year where they absolutely dominated A and were very good against last years top AA teams matched with the fact that they know they can compete with AA teams in the gold division now and for years to come and yet they still play in class A is disturbing.

adamp- i can read and was just pointing out the fact. Why do you think I respect Roseau and not STA? I'm not saying enrollment means this or that but teams like Roseau and even Warroad don't have the same luxuries as STA. You are right, enrollment doesn't mean anything about class, so why isn't STA in AA just like every other private school in the cities?

HSHockeyWatcher-
dherman8, why aren't you arguing for Roseau to stay in class A? They play a Class A schedule...
you stated that......um are you trying to make my point for me? Roseau knew they could play with the AA schools so they moved up. STA knows they can play with AA teams so they stay in A?........

[hockeyjoe069]

mahtomedi is bound to go deep into the tournament forsure.

[HShockeywatcher]

"STA knows they can play with AA teams so they stay in A?........"
Yes, they can. Class has nothing to do with talent, it has to do with enrollment. GSL can play with AAAA schools but they stay in AAA, TG could play with AAAAA schools but they stay in AAAA, Braham could've played for titles in AAA or AAAA in the years Isaiah was there but they stayed in AA, etc, etc, etc. The lists go on and on. I'm not making any point for you.

"so why isn't STA in AA just like every other private school in the cities? "
Providence Academy, St Paul Saints, Blake, Breck, St Paul Academy, Meadow Creek Christian, Totino Grace. I'm glad you reminded me they are in AA, I forgot.
There are more Class A private schools than Class AA private schools.

Cathedral, Breck, Totino, and DM can all probably do everything you just listed in your post to hockeykid. Why not discuss them?

"They have been playing primarily a double A schedule over the past years because with their conference and available teams they have to."
Really?
1. Three short years ago the only non-conference, non-Cretin AA team they played was Tonka. The other 6 non-conference, non-Cretin games were A schools. They still play Tonka every year and still play Cretin yearly.
2. They have been in the Schwan Cup, starting in the Bronze and working their way up, for the past few years.
3. Switching sections allowed them to take Lourdes and RW out of their schedule. They play section foes Maht and SSP twice a season, which is nice, and now they play Breck, Marshall and Totino.
4. It turns out to be 13 AA teams and 12 A teams, far from a good AA schedule.
5. The school is trying to develop players, should they give up playing Tonka to play some Class A team not as good who is farther away? That is really the only game on their schedule with any wiggle room, good try though.

dherman8, not sure what you have against the kids on the team, but it's sad to see. The things you say barely make sense and you continue to put down a program blindly. Why not put down all of the other A programs that have been good in the past?

[dherman8]

First off, MSHSL states that enrollment for grades 9-12 is 1082 for STA. I don't care if they double it because of the all male fact. The point is if they were a normal school thats how many kids they would have in it and you can't argue that. Warroad is a normal school of 400. Probably about half of which ARE actually girls. That means 200 guys roughly which is half of STA. They are totally different schools and not in the way you are speaking, although I can respect what you are saying. Roseau is the same. Roughly 200 guys and they are playing AA. They have 400 kids with females included. Totally different schools. There are a number of other northern schools that are the same.

I've always thought that all of them should be in AA or have a class of their own. STA has emerged as an easy target and prime example and thats why I pick on them. Blake, Breck, and Totino have cases just like STA, however, STA's is a much stronger one as of now. Half of those privates have been playing with AA schools over the years anyway. (FYI: Providence Academy 236, Meadow Creek Christian 210, I couldn't find the other enrollments but I'm guessing that STA has twice as many guys as them if not more)

STA had 13AA schools and 12A. This year Roseau has 8AA schools and 14A scheduled opponents and 3 exceptions. They have a very good shot at making state. That's just one example but several northern AA schools tend to have a half and half or maybe 2/3rds schedule of AA and A. Most also don't play as strong of AA competiton as well so if you switch about two of those A games and take AA opponents it is a respectable schedule. With all do respect, I really don't see that point. Also, if you are saying they will keep playing Cretin and Tonka yearly, thats 10 AA games a year set for them which is nearing half a shedule so yeah.

HSHockeywatcher-Personally, I don't see what you have against me. I never once said anything about the players or anyone on the team. I don't know any of them personally so for me to criticize them would be downright disgusting. My dislike stems from what the program as a whole stands for and that's where my eighth grader beating up a third grader analogy came from. The members of the team just make things fun for me so I won't criticize them.

This is enjoyable though. Thanks for the arguments. I'm here to learn.

[Rocky Dennis]

Adamp1914:

First of all South St. Paul has NEVER won a state title- please get your facts straight if you are going to reply to my posts. I don't appreciate it!

Also, the sample size argument is dumb. SSP has built a tradition by having a supportive community and hard working volunteers. Many people have put time and effort into that program. Now, St. Thomas picks and chooses the best players in the region to field a team that competes against smaller, publically enrolled, schools. It creates resentment from all the people that have put in time and effort into that program when a parent can cut a check and buy their kid into the spotlight and dream of every hockey player (the State Tournament).

To me, that is disgusting. Their private enterprise picks the cream of the crop and blocks the way for kids that may not have the financial advantage (although if they are good enough there may be a way to work that out I'm sure).

Basically, what we see here is the end of the State Tournament and a private showcase of hockey players, with limited openings for the public school kids whose parents contribute most of the cost to operate the thing. In addition, it is the public schools that have made High School Hockey what it is today and now it has becom infested with private interests.

[allday14]

Rocky, I disagree with what you say here. Just because a kid's parents have money doesn't mean that they make the team. Do some kids get in because of money? A few, yes. Talent must be there, the coaches hate losing. A large part of the student body is on financial aid. I will not name names, but two years ago, a hockey player from South Saint Paul came to STA. The next year, due to the economy, his family could no longer afford to send their kid to STA. This was unfortunate to the hockey team as well as the student body. Last year I played JV, but this year I was cut as a result of being "too old" even though I am not a senior. When they informed me of this decision, the coaches told me that because of a weak freshman class, and the transfer rule (they can't get new players to improve the freshman class, so what they have now is what they will have for four more years) I wanted to believe some kids bought their way onto the team, but it's not true.
What parents see in STA: an education, and a program who has the ability to improve their kid as a hockey player.
Some may have their kids their for the hockey. That is their choice.

Thats enough of my rant. Bottom line: you must have talent.

[HShockeywatcher]

Enrollment.
If it has nothing to do with it, then that means both ways. So just stop bringing up enrollment. Yes, 1082 is for doubled for (just going out on a limb here) 541 for grades 9-12. "Hockey's different," "enrollment doesn't mean anything," take whatever you want, but enrollment is a moot point.

Schedule.
Just like enrollment, your schedule shouldn't define who you are. If a top team can play an easy schedule and play up, a team should also be able to play a tough schedule and play down.

dherman8, what I have issue with is making an example of St Thomas and them alone. Part of what a private school does is recruit students, just like any other private enterprise. Not in any sort of negative, over the top manner, but by making their product (school and education) appealing to others. From help of alumni, UST and other sources (I think) they were able to build a very nice hockey facility on campus and hire a great coaching staff. That is very appealing to people. Duluth Marshall also did the same thing recently. It works. STA has the heads up on them of being able to draw from a bigger area.

It's the talking out both sides of your (people in general, not you) mouth. In discussing class A rankings, the same people who barely put St Thomas in the top 5 in class A turn around and say they should be in AA. That doesn't even make sense. If Little Falls is so much better than St Thomas (for example) why should the worse team have to move up?

Lack of respect. Little Falls wins their section and goes to state doing quite well 4 years in a row and everyone congratulates them and says how great they are. St Thomas wins their section and goes to state 4 years in a year and they're cheaters, they need to opt up and what have you.

The MSHSL does a great job making regulations, rules, policies and such. Although I do not agree with being able to opt up, they put St Thomas in a certain class. If St Thomas NEEDED to be in the higher class, they would be there. They simply don't. Why blame the school and not the system who has them where they are?

Also (and I'll try to keep this short) this is really a knock to the public school system allocation of funds. Looks at almost all sports. With the exception of swimming (probably for the same reason as hockey) St Thomas is in the top half of schools, size wise, in the state. There are more schools in MN graduating less than 100 students a year than there are schools graduating more than 100 students. The issue is that hockey (like swimming) is an expensive sport, not only for the participants, but also the city and such, making many of the smaller communities who have track, football, basketball, etc programs either not have a hockey program or have to co-op. I could go on, but basically, I don't like blaming them for where they are and I think we as a state need to work on improving the conditions of our smaller communities.

Rocky Dennis,
Everything you are complaining about would be solved if teams were no longer allowed to opt up. People have agreed with me in the past, but why no one talks about it more I don't know.

[karl(east)]

Everything you are complaining about would be solved if teams were no longer allowed to opt up. People have agreed with me in the past, but why no one talks about it more I don't know.

I can't quite see what ending the opt-up rule would achieve.

1. There are currently 7 opt-ups, all of which have proven themselves as serious contenders in AA. If the original intent of the 2-class system was to create some competitive balance between large schools and small schools, these teams have proven themselves to be exception and have the right (NOT an obligation) to opt up if they so desire. As good as the A tournament might be with them, it still wouldn't match the AA tournament in terms of prestige, and if these 7 want that for themselves, there shouldn't be anyting stopping them.

2. It would essentially turn AA intro a metro-area tournament. Moorhead would be the only real outstate title contender left at the AA level. Duluth East would join them in a few years when the Red Plan finishes up, but I personally would be revolted by a world of Duluth East hockey that does not include Cloquet and Grand Rapids.

3. If STA is as content with being in A as they say they are, why do they care about what other people say about them? They can just continue to pile up their trophies and be happy.

I think the status quo works just fine. The teams that want to move up do so, the teams that don't do not, and everyone wins.

[bender0905]

Everything you are complaining about would be solved if teams were no longer allowed to opt up. People have agreed with me in the past, but why no one talks about it more I don't know.

I can't quite see what ending the opt-up rule would achieve.

1. There are currently 7 opt-ups, all of which have proven themselves as serious contenders in AA. If the original intent of the 2-class system was to create some competitive balance between large schools and small schools, these teams have proven themselves to be exception and have the right (NOT an obligation) to opt up if they so desire. As good as the A tournament might be with them, it still wouldn't match the AA tournament in terms of prestige, and if these 7 want that for themselves, there shouldn't be anyting stopping them.

2. It would essentially turn AA intro a metro-area tournament. Moorhead would be the only real outstate title contender left at the AA level. Duluth East would join them in a few years when the Red Plan finishes up, but I personally would be revolted by a world of Duluth East hockey that does not include Cloquet and Grand Rapids.

3. If STA is as content with being in A as they say they are, why do they care about what other people say about them? They can just continue to pile up their trophies and be happy.

I think the status quo works just fine. The teams that want to move up do so, the teams that don't do not, and everyone wins.

I think Karl(east) is right..everyone wins. Except for the teams which lose their kids to these private schools and now cannot play with the more competitive teams in either A or AA...

[HShockeywatcher]

karl,

it is basically the tier system, except we disrespect the teams who are in class A. We could have two high quality tournaments. "If the original intent of the 2-class system was to create some competitive balance between large schools and small schools" It was to create tournaments based on enrollment. Plain and simple.

Right now people have the mentality that the AA tourney is "the tourney" and the A tourney is "the other tourney." Aside from 5A football, hockey is basically the only sport where the team in top tourney is thought of as the best team and the rest are disrespected.

karl, don't become another one of those people who bring up st thomas everytime the classes are brought up. this has nothing to do with them. this has to do with the tourneys. it is silly that roseau has to be AA to prove themselves.

Many people want St Thomas to opt up. If they have to, and everyone who has had sustained success or dominance in Class A has to, we'd have a tier system, where the bottom class means nothing. Either have one class, which won't happen, or don't allow opt ups.

[karl(east)]

I brought up STA because STA is the only school with which the idea of opting up is ever mentioned, with the occasional exception of Marshall. STA fans, with good reason, do not like this...but you have to realize that this situation is completely unique to STA. They are in an odd situation. If people had brought up Warroad, I'd be saying the same thing.

The problem with hockey is that there are only two classes, as opposed to the other major spectator sports, where there are 4 or 6. Because of that, they're always going to be compared. The championship of one will always get put in prime-time, while that of the other will not. This is probably a result of the economics of the tournament, plus the TV contracts that are signed. Unless they go rent the Xcel Center for another weekend, which would be financially impossible, one has to be favored in some way over the other. Naturally, it's going to be AA; the convenience factor and the enrollments mean it's going to draw more people. By the nature of the system, one is going to be viewed as better than the other, with a 2-class dichotomy, I don't think that can be avoided.

If we force the opt-ups down (and after we quell the riots in Roseau, GR, and Cloquet), the A tourney will get stronger, yes. But I'm pessimistic about that fixing the perceived gap, and I don't think throwing a few more northern teams and private schools with smallish enrollments would do much for that.

To be honest, I do think STA should stay in A. If other teams are sick of seeing STA win, they will have to get creative and look for ways to catch up. Who knows, maybe they'll come up with something innovative, and maybe Class A can improve its legitimacy by itself, without forcing teams that don't want to be in it into it. Maybe then Roseau won't feel it has to be in AA to prove itself; that will be their call.

And for STA, there is nothing wrong with having a target on one's back. It means they've done something to earn it, and they should relish that.

The reason people go after STA and STA only on the opt-up topic is because they are a private school and these people percieve there is recruitment going on (and I think you know my thoughts on this from the discussion on the Public Schools thread). That's where the real issue is here, I think. For now, STA is simply playing where they are assigned, and seem to be happy with that. Good for them.

[deacon]

Any final score for the STA game? Winner of the STA game plays TG, correct?

[Theclassicburbs]

All I can say is if STA makes it to St. Paul there will be a lot of "GOD HATES YOU" and "GOD LOVES US FOR FREE" chants and I will be laughing all day long... GO PUBLIC SCHOOLS!