Section Realingment for Girls Hockey

[Melvin44]

If you realign sections to try and get it to be more competitive, how long does that last? All programs around the state, both strong and weak or big or small go through cycles. The powers will not always be powers. Girls hockey at the high school level is still developing and is so at different rates. I know realignment needs to happen to balance the size of sections, but don't try and change the competitive balance because I believe that it is something that will take care of itself.

Set (tweak) sections every year at the end of the regular season. Example you could have moved Stillwater or Roseville to Section 1 this year. Try to get as many top teams to the tourney every year. Or like a few have mentioned rank teams 1-64 and play it down.

Girls hockey is not as deep as the boys and shouldn't be ran the same way.

[hshockeyfan91]

No one can reliably predict who the top teams will be 3-4 years down the road. However, esp. since the MSHSL rules limiting transfers went into effect, it is not too difficult to predict the next season - often even 2 seasons out.

Alexandria was used as an example of falling down slightly after a number of key players graduated. No surprise, right? Would it have been hard last March, or even March 2007 to predict that? Yes many teams go in cycles, but they're usually predictable - i.e. talented young 8th / 9th / 10th graders come in, team gets better and better over the next couple of years and then drops off when they graduate. Not hard to figure out.

But even more than that it's the systematic things. Is it hard to predict that Stillwater and Roseville will have strong teams? Is it hard to predict that 1AA might not be as strong? Is it hard to predict that Blake and Breck, Warroad and Roseau will be strong. Is it tough to figure out that 1A, 2A and 3A, for example, are not as strong as 5A or 8A? Not at all.

Clearly there are improvements that could be made if anticipated strength of teams was analyzed along with historic last 3-5 year performance. Sections COULD be roughly competitively equal. There will always be some surprises, but not as many as some might think. We will never have a PERFECT system, but we could have a lot BETTER system.

[SportsMa]

Directly from the MSHSL website...attend the meeting.

Minnesota State High School League
BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING
Xcel Energy Center
St. Paul, MN
Friday, March 13, 2009
Beginning at 9:00 a.m.

AGENDA
1. Approval of Agenda
2. Individuals or Delegations on Agenda Issues*
3. Action Items

Stead/Franson
A. Placement of Schools into Competitive Sections for 2009-2011

B. Other

* The business of the Minnesota State High School League shall be conducted at meetings of the Minnesota State High School League Board of Directors. Meetings of the Board are open to the public. Persons interested in speaking to an agenda item must contact the President or the Vice-President of the Board prior to the meeting and indicate the topic they wish to address. The Board President, or other member acting in the capacity of the President, shall determine whether the public comment is relevant to the agenda. Public speakers will be called upon at the public comment section of the agenda.
Members of the public wishing to address topics not on the agenda under consideration are invited to provide written information to the President of the Board or to a member of the League staff. That information will be distributed to the members of the Board following the conclusion of the Board meeting.

[SportsMa]

Girls hockey is not as deep as the boys and shouldn't be ran the same way.

If they don't run it the same way...someone may very likely sue so I can understand why MSHSL would want to run a consistent system.

[keepitreal]

Clearly there are improvements that could be made if anticipated strength of teams was analyzed along with historic last 3-5 year performance. Sections COULD be roughly competitively equal. There will always be some surprises, but not as many as some might think. We will never have a PERFECT system, but we could have a lot BETTER system.

I understand, but if the effect of this removes the top rivals from their sections, effectively creating smooth sailing into the tournament for all the top teams regardless of what area of the state they reside, can it be good? This creates a more competitive tournament but destroys the year-to-year section rivalries (often carrying up from youth levels) that pique interest and intensity between the schools, not only for one sport but all. Each section has some great rivalries, even if they aren't all among the top state-ranked teams.

If teams are continuously shuffled into non-geographic sections based on their apparent strength statewide, what would the motivation be for programs in non-metro areas that aren't hockey hotbeds? What would happen to growth of the sport? You'd have to believe that girls hockey in some areas of the state would cease entirely. The gravity of talent transfers would increase steadily around some traditional powers in the metro, Duluth and northwest, and probably fall apart around areas that will now have no chance to get to the State Tournament, ever.

While teams like Roseville, Stillwater, WBL and Hill may not like facing down each other in sections, it's my belief this and similar rivalries make these teams stronger and better--knowing every year they will knock heads for the right to represent their section. For the stronger teams to cruise through a section championship by creating a fuzzy system of moving pieces and possibly politically-influenced placements late in the season would remove much of the anticipation and rivalry that makes the section playoffs what they are. Motivation would be greatly reduced for good teams and not-so-good teams alike. And while the tournament can be a bit of a letdown knowing some great teams are at home, any good team knows the true tournament begins the week BEFORE the trip to St. Paul.

No one will argue that it's perfect now, but removing geographic representation from any high school sport is an invitation to disaster IMHO. This would be the birth of club hockey in Minnesota.

[Melvin44]

Just for the record. I love our conference. MY team has not been considered one of the stronger teams in recent years. My desire for slight realignment is so that the 2 or 3 top teams in the state make it to the tourney so that all can enjoy the best hockey available to grow the sport.

Three years ago when Roseville was in section 5 you at least had a better state tourney. If Roseville hadn't been moved we wouldn't be talking about this. I love that our section had 4 top 12 teams in it as we had many college scouts in attendance. But I don't feel it was best for girl’s hockey. Also better for attendance.

Girls hockey MUST have as many top teams get to state or at least (try) because then you'd get college scouts from all over wanting to attend! Now we only get a few, as they know only 3 or 4 are truly top teams. That is also why sometimes Minnesota is thought to be weak for scouting.

Tweak it or leave it. Just do what's best for girl’s hockey. Not just representation from N, S, E, W. There should not be 9-0 games at state if possible. No one wants to see that.

Some of the holiday tournaments are better than the State tournament in my opinion.

[ahshockeyphoto]

If you realign sections to try and get it to be more competitive, how long does that last? All programs around the state, both strong and weak or big or small go through cycles. The powers will not always be powers. Girls hockey at the high school level is still developing and is so at different rates. I know realignment needs to happen to balance the size of sections, but don't try and change the competitive balance because I believe that it is something that will take care of itself.

This is very true, especially in the single A where the graduation of a few key seniors (see Alexandria) can dramatically affect their team. The success or lack of for many of these schools often hinges on the presence of a couple players moving through. And because many of these talented players can make an impact even as 8th graders in the small schools, the program has a good 4-5 year run with the right core of players at the right time. But all things change.

Behind that, it's the quality of high school coaching and development at the youth levels. You hope some high school success inspires the youth program to improve to keep the ball rolling, but it doesn't always work out that way. This is the cycle.

I agree. IMO we should only update the sections in order to balance the numbers. The geography based program is not broken yet. Pro sports have the similar geographic challenges and have similar arguments every year as you go throught the playoffs into the championships. Even at that they have more parity than high school girls hockey.

The system improved greatly with the seeding of the state tournament (which I understand was proposed by the section 1 coaches). Class A had very good games at 3rd place and for the championships.

In my several years of following Class A, it seems that we typically have 4 - 8 ELITE teams in any given year. And yes, those teams most likely are bunched in a few sections. Those teams are usually strong enough that they would give Class AA teams a run at state, if they were in the right sections.

Then Class A will have 10 to 15 above average teams around the state.
To me, these teams are more representative of Class A and are a cross section of the state. These teams draw a lot of interest in keeping this sport alive in Minnesota. These teams will strive to challenge the elite teams, and in some cases, like Alexandria, can become one of the elite for awhile. These teams have big dreams of making it to state every year. I would guess that there are similarities to this in Class AA.

Trying to seed the top elite teams into sections every year will be difficult in practice and at some level demoralizing for the other teams. The weak teams may fade away. The above average teams may not draw younger participants into their programs and then they may become weaker.

IMO the current system will do the best to keep participation as high as possible around the state. College coaches have other ways that they may recruit. The teams thrive competing against their geographic opponents, against their "new" friends from selects/NDP, etc. The more girls that we can get into girls hockey, the better chance we have at getting more parity into the state tournament in the LONG run.

If haven't guessed already, I am for more participation in girls hockey. If your area has some great programs for drawing more girls to the sport, please share them in the other thread that I started. Thanks.

[hockey_rocker]

Melvin has the right idea. Who cares if you have to drive a bit to your section games as long as you know that they are fairly aligned. Take the top 8 or 16 teams each year and spread them out. These rediculous blowouts have to stop. I do like the idea of private schools all being required to play AA. Or at least move up after winning a specified times in a row. There is no reason why a Blake or Breck should be easily winning class A year in and year out. I like the 64 team format too. that would be the best scenario. All I know is Section 4AA has got to be changed as well as Section 2. And Kudos to Roseau for making the big jump. Now there's a team with heart and tradition.

[upnorthguy]

Melvin has the right idea. Who cares if you have to drive a bit to your section games as long as you know that they are fairly aligned. Take the top 8 or 16 teams each year and spread them out. These rediculous blowouts have to stop. I do like the idea of private schools all being required to play AA. Or at least move up after winning a specified times in a row. There is no reason why a Blake or Breck should be easily winning class A year in and year out. I like the 64 team format too. that would be the best scenario. All I know is Section 4AA has got to be changed as well as Section 2. And Kudos to Roseau for making the big jump. Now there's a team with heart and tradition.

\

Roseau moved up not to play better competion. Warroad the next three years would dominate 8A. Roseau with the loss of some nice seniors would never have a chance agtainst Warroad.

Roseau's best chanced to state is 8AA. This would push contender Elk River out based on geographics and realignment and for easier path to state.

Who would Roseau rather play Bemidji, Moorhead, or Warroad in your path to State.

Bemidji is getting weaker. Moorhead about the same and still has Steenerson. Elk River blew through this section easily but will probably get pushed out.

Nice Move Roseau. Make it look like your moving to better competion, but the reality of the story. It is your easier path to state.



This move is very obvious too me.

This is very obvious to me or am I missing something here

[upnorthguy]

Melvin has the right idea. Who cares if you have to drive a bit to your section games as long as you know that they are fairly aligned. Take the top 8 or 16 teams each year and spread them out. These rediculous blowouts have to stop. I do like the idea of private schools all being required to play AA. Or at least move up after winning a specified times in a row. There is no reason why a Blake or Breck should be easily winning class A year in and year out. I like the 64 team format too. that would be the best scenario. All I know is Section 4AA has got to be changed as well as Section 2. And Kudos to Roseau for making the big jump. Now there's a team with heart and tradition.

\

Roseau moved up not to play better competion. Warroad the next three years would dominate 8A. Roseau with the loss of some nice seniors would never have a chance agtainst Warroad.

Roseau's best chanced to state is 8AA. This would push contender Elk River out based on geographics and realignment and for easier path to state.

Who would Roseau rather play Bemidji, Moorhead, or Warroad in your path to State.

Bemidji is getting weaker. Moorhead about the same and still has Steenerson. Elk River blew through this section easily but will probably get pushed out.

Nice Move Roseau. Make it look like your moving to better competion, but the reality of the story. It is your easier path to state.



This move is very obvious too me.

This is very obvious to me or am I missing something here

[DmanDad1980]

Melvin has the right idea. Who cares if you have to drive a bit to your section games as long as you know that they are fairly aligned. Take the top 8 or 16 teams each year and spread them out. These rediculous blowouts have to stop. I do like the idea of private schools all being required to play AA. Or at least move up after winning a specified times in a row. There is no reason why a Blake or Breck should be easily winning class A year in and year out. I like the 64 team format too. that would be the best scenario. All I know is Section 4AA has got to be changed as well as Section 2. And Kudos to Roseau for making the big jump. Now there's a team with heart and tradition.

\

Roseau moved up not to play better competion. Warroad the next three years would dominate 8A. Roseau with the loss of some nice seniors would never have a chance agtainst Warroad.

Roseau's best chanced to state is 8AA. This would push contender Elk River out based on geographics and realignment and for easier path to state.

Who would Roseau rather play Bemidji, Moorhead, or Warroad in your path to State.

Bemidji is getting weaker. Moorhead about the same and still has Steenerson. Elk River blew through this section easily but will probably get pushed out.

Nice Move Roseau. Make it look like your moving to better competion, but the reality of the story. It is your easier path to state.



This move is very obvious too me.

This is very obvious to me or am I missing something here

You are probably correct upnorth...

Roseau has some nice U12 & U14 teams coming up, but may not compete with the 8th & 9th graders on the current Warrior team, or the Warroad Youth program which stretches as far south as Cambridge...

Dead horse issue on Warroad getting players, but is definitely part of the argument and the decision that Roseau had to make...

[hockeyheaven]

What are you guys taking about? Roseau moved up to AA because, to be the best you have to play the best. Unless your team is in the tournament, nobody cares and nobody will remember who won class A…sorry that’s just the way it is. As far as leaving to avoid Warroad…how absurd is that. Unless I’m mistaken Roseau lost to Warroad in the Section Championship game in overtime… overtime. I’m sorry, but I personally like the Ram’s chances as much as their heated rival’s in the years to come and more so after that. The Warriors lose Goulet next year and Story and Lovelace the year after that with not much waiting in the wings. Contrary to the recruiting conspiracy theorist… I’m not buying it. Sure they had an influx of players a couple years ago, but only because those players chose to go to move north to better their own personal situation… not Warroad’s. The chance of hitting gold twice (Sylvester, Amsley-Benzie)…is not likely. I’m sure Roseau would like nothing more then to have Warroad follow suit…not to mention Breck and Blake. My experience tells me that when it comes to hockey…Roseau has never backed down from a fight.

[upnorthguy]

What are you guys taking about? Roseau moved up to AA because, to be the best you have to play the best. Unless your team is in the tournament, nobody cares and nobody will remember who won class A…sorry that’s just the way it is. As far as leaving to avoid Warroad…how absurd is that. Unless I’m mistaken Roseau lost to Warroad in the Section Championship game in overtime… overtime. I’m sorry, but I personally like the Ram’s chances as much as their heated rival’s in the years to come and more so after that. The Warriors lose Goulet next year and Story and Lovelace the year after that with not much waiting in the wings. Contrary to the recruiting conspiracy theorist… I’m not buying it. Sure they had an influx of players a couple years ago, but only because those players chose to go to move north to better their own personal situation… not Warroad’s. The chance of hitting gold twice (Sylvester, Amsley-Benzie)…is not likely. I’m sure Roseau would like nothing more then to have Warroad follow suit…not to mention Breck and Blake. My experience tells me that when it comes to hockey…Roseau has never backed down from a fight.

Roseau's new name: Roseau Spin Doctors

Next you will tell us you are starting Bell Bottom Pants factory in place of the Snowomobile factory.

and don't forget the alien sightings spotted in your area

Your arguements are lowsey on the move-up. Nice try

[hockeya1a]

What are you guys taking about? Roseau moved up to AA because, to be the best you have to play the best. Unless your team is in the tournament, nobody cares and nobody will remember who won class A…sorry that’s just the way it is. As far as leaving to avoid Warroad…how absurd is that. Unless I’m mistaken Roseau lost to Warroad in the Section Championship game in overtime… overtime. I’m sorry, but I personally like the Ram’s chances as much as their heated rival’s in the years to come and more so after that. The Warriors lose Goulet next year and Story and Lovelace the year after that with not much waiting in the wings. Contrary to the recruiting conspiracy theorist… I’m not buying it. Sure they had an influx of players a couple years ago, but only because those players chose to go to move north to better their own personal situation… not Warroad’s. The chance of hitting gold twice (Sylvester, Amsley-Benzie)…is not likely. I’m sure Roseau would like nothing more then to have Warroad follow suit…not to mention Breck and Blake. My experience tells me that when it comes to hockey…Roseau has never backed down from a fight.

Roseau's new name: Roseau Spin Doctors

Next you will tell us you are starting Bell Bottom Pants factory in place of the Snowomobile factory.

and don't forget the alien sightings spotted in your area

Your arguements are lowsey on the move-up. Nice try

Well I guess there is only 1 way to find out,
Warroad! take off the Depends and move up too!
then if we hear any whining from the Roseau we will know

[SportsMa]

So back to what this thread is titled section realignment.....

I am wondering if any on here are planning to attend the MSHSL league meeting scheduled for Friday that will be discussing this topic?

[hockeyheaven]

What are you guys taking about? Roseau moved up to AA because, to be the best you have to play the best. Unless your team is in the tournament, nobody cares and nobody will remember who won class A…sorry that’s just the way it is. As far as leaving to avoid Warroad…how absurd is that. Unless I’m mistaken Roseau lost to Warroad in the Section Championship game in overtime… overtime. I’m sorry, but I personally like the Ram’s chances as much as their heated rival’s in the years to come and more so after that. The Warriors lose Goulet next year and Story and Lovelace the year after that with not much waiting in the wings. Contrary to the recruiting conspiracy theorist… I’m not buying it. Sure they had an influx of players a couple years ago, but only because those players chose to go to move north to better their own personal situation… not Warroad’s. The chance of hitting gold twice (Sylvester, Amsley-Benzie)…is not likely. I’m sure Roseau would like nothing more then to have Warroad follow suit…not to mention Breck and Blake. My experience tells me that when it comes to hockey…Roseau has never backed down from a fight.

Roseau's new name: Roseau Spin Doctors

Next you will tell us you are starting Bell Bottom Pants factory in place of the Snowomobile factory.

and don't forget the alien sightings spotted in your area

Your arguements are lowsey on the move-up. Nice try

Now I get it…your scared upnorthguy… aren’t you? You’re probably from Moorhead or Bemidji or even Elk River and you are simply terrified at the very notion that the Ram’s move will block your chance of ever seeing the lights shine on 7th and Kellogg. Hey I understand…that’s a real bummer. Oh by the way, hate to leave you disillusioned, but I’m not from Roseau…the only time I pass the 45 degree north latitude line is for holiday…and the sleds I buy, come out of Quebec.

[hockeydad]

Trying to seed the top elite teams into sections every year will be difficult in practice and at some level demoralizing for the other teams. The weak teams may fade away. The above average teams may not draw younger participants into their programs and then they may become weaker.

IMO the current system will do the best to keep participation as high as possible around the state.

BINGO!

That is the reason to leave it to geography. If I'm a hockey player at John Marshall in Section 1AA, working hard to be part of a developing program, and all of a sudden we have Stillwater moved to our section, as someone proposed earlier, it would be very demoralizing. It would have a chilling effect on some of the developing programs. You'd start to lose players and perhaps teams.

[upnorthguy]

What are you guys taking about? Roseau moved up to AA because, to be the best you have to play the best. Unless your team is in the tournament, nobody cares and nobody will remember who won class A…sorry that’s just the way it is. As far as leaving to avoid Warroad…how absurd is that. Unless I’m mistaken Roseau lost to Warroad in the Section Championship game in overtime… overtime. I’m sorry, but I personally like the Ram’s chances as much as their heated rival’s in the years to come and more so after that. The Warriors lose Goulet next year and Story and Lovelace the year after that with not much waiting in the wings. Contrary to the recruiting conspiracy theorist… I’m not buying it. Sure they had an influx of players a couple years ago, but only because those players chose to go to move north to better their own personal situation… not Warroad’s. The chance of hitting gold twice (Sylvester, Amsley-Benzie)…is not likely. I’m sure Roseau would like nothing more then to have Warroad follow suit…not to mention Breck and Blake. My experience tells me that when it comes to hockey…Roseau has never backed down from a fight.

Roseau's new name: Roseau Spin Doctors

Next you will tell us you are starting Bell Bottom Pants factory in place of the Snowomobile factory.

and don't forget the alien sightings spotted in your area

Your arguements are lowsey on the move-up. Nice try

Now I get it…your scared upnorthguy… aren’t you? You’re probably from Moorhead or Bemidji or even Elk River and you are simply terrified at the very notion that the Ram’s move will block your chance of ever seeing the lights shine on 7th and Kellogg. Hey I understand…that’s a real bummer. Oh by the way, hate to leave you disillusioned, but I’m not from Roseau…the only time I pass the 45 degree north latitude line is for holiday…and the sleds I buy, come out of Quebec.

Actually im from Moorhead. I have relation in Warroad and have lived in Greenbush.

I would be almost certian if Warroad move to AA. Roseau would move back to A. Talking to a few friends of mine in Warroad it may still happen.

We all know Roseau can't compete against Warroad the next 2-3 years. so it was a nice move away from competion. lets admit it.

Warroad in the 8AA would probably handle the section favorite Elk River pretty easy also.

Again, what is the easiest path to the state tournament for Roseau. 8AA. To try to spin this and say your moving up to better competion without Warroad not in the picture is rediculous.

Your marketing program needs a little work. Nice Try.

Moorhead can hold their own in hockey. We are no push overs.

It is what it is

[hockeyheaven]

BINGO!

That is the reason to leave it to geography. If I'm a hockey player at John Marshall in Section 1AA, working hard to be part of a developing program, and all of a sudden we have Stillwater moved to our section, as someone proposed earlier, it would be very demoralizing. It would have a chilling effect on some of the developing programs. You'd start to lose players and perhaps teams.

That is one way of looking at it, tough to debate. However it could also have another effect. It might also raise all boats. My daughter has been playing for roughly eight years and in that time I have seen a slow shift in power within the different programs. Youth teams that 3-4 years ago (WBL, Stillwater, Roseville) that were as strong as any team are now just average and others who struggled are now thriving (Wayzata, Highland, MV). I agree a lot has to do with size of the community, but more important what efforts the community organizer make to recruit and develop these athletes. Just possibly putting a team like Stillwater in the Section gives those programs a target to shoot for… just a thought.

Any way I believe the system works just fine. After all, the goal should be to find the best team, not create the best tournament. Every team has the opportunity to play its way in. Losing in your Section tells me that you are not the best team that year; that one team is just a little better. You had your shot and you came up short. Having Roseville, Hill or Minnetonka in the tournament might have made it more competitive, but would not have change the end result.

[Melvin44]

That is one way of looking at it, tough to debate. However it could also have another effect. It might also raise all boats. My daughter has been playing for roughly eight years and in that time I have seen a slow shift in power within the different programs. Youth teams that 3-4 years ago (WBL, Stillwater, Roseville) that were as strong as any team are now just average and others who struggled are now thriving (Wayzata, Highland, MV). I agree a lot has to do with size of the community, but more important what efforts the community organizer make to recruit and develop these athletes. Just possibly putting a team like Stillwater in the Section gives those programs a target to shoot for… just a thought.

Any way I believe the system works just fine. After all, the goal should be to find the best team, not create the best tournament. Every team has the opportunity to play its way in. Losing in your Section tells me that you are not the best team that year; that one team is just a little better. You had your shot and you came up short. Having Roseville, Hill or Minnetonka in the tournament might have made it more competitive, but would not have change the end result.

I'll have to disagree.

Roseville beat Stillwater twice this year and only lost on a questionable goal in a 3-2 game. Roseville lost 2 games all year! They in my opinion were one of the best teams and would have had a great chance if they had played Stillwater again. I feel the state tournament should be with as many top teams as possible and not because of where they're located.

Roseville, Stillwater, Edina, EP, Hill, Centennial, WBL etc. will always be strong because of tradition. If the youth programs are weak it's because more are playing HS hockey..

People are saying our girls wouldn't play if we had to play Stillwater. Whaaaaaaat! It should work, We have to get our best athletes to play, as we need them to beat Stillwater.

Did you go to the State tourney this year? First round games were tough to watch. Will I go to the 1st round next year? Probably, only if my team makes it.

Like I said earlier. Some Holiday tourney’s are better than state. Change it!

[joehockey]

Melvin great points on this board I read about great Holiday Tourenys all around the state - teams kind of played likes - Albert Lea Tourney sounded great.....why do teams seek out likes for Holiday Tournaments and all declare great but when you try to do that for a similar 3 game state tourney it is a "right" to get a slot even if your team won't compete well?

I just saw a story on Channel 5 that the Xcel will be full on Saturday night and $15 tickets are at Ticket King for $1500! Lets build some traditions of great hockey and fill what ever venue future State games are held at.

The idea someone proposed of seeding is a great one - I am sure there will still be some stories like Mahtomedi or Cretin a year ago and they will only be better out of a seeded event.

Anyways good exchange and dialog by all.

[hockeywild7]

Melvin I think you should give Stillwater more credit. To say Roseville lost on a questionable goal in the section final is kind of an insult to Stillwater. Stillwater hasnt been complaining about losing the conference championship game to Roseville after the refs completely missed a goal seconds before they were scored on. The first conference game was decided in overtime and the second in the last 3-4 minutes. EITHER team could have won all three. Of course Roseville would have had a great chance if they would have played again, so would have Hopkins but the fact is they both lost when it counted the most. Granted I am biased towards Stillwater but they won those games because they played great and got the breaks when they needed them and they had the deepest team in the state and that is why they are STATE CHAMPIONS.

[keepitreal]

I'll have to disagree.

Roseville beat Stillwater twice this year and only lost on a questionable goal in a 3-2 game. Roseville lost 2 games all year! They in my opinion were one of the best teams and would have had a great chance if they had played Stillwater again. I feel the state tournament should be with as many top teams as possible and not because of where they're located.

I'm not sure I understand. Roseville lost two games all year but the most important game they lost was against, yes, Stillwater, in the SECTION FINAL-- #1 against #2. How many shots should you get? They lost their final game against the team that won the state championship and there's no shame in that. They played three close games this year, winning twice but not the last time when it mattered most. It's not like they got knocked out by a team that wasn't worthy. #2 ranked Stillwater had to go through #4 Hill, #1 Roseville, and ultimately #3 Hopkins (who took out #5 Edina, who had in turn knocked out #6 Tonka in section finals). 1-2-3-4-5-6. Seems to me the seedings were spot on and created excellent section semis and finals for the right to represent at the tournament.

I'm sure it would have been more gratifying for Roseville to be at the tourney, but to assume the outcome vs Stillwater would be different there is a specious argument. The games at state are big games and the section games are big games. You have to win ALL of them to be the champion.

I hear what you're saying, but I'd hate to see the sections lose their competitive structure. It's all or nothing, win or go home. No third place, no consolation. These teams may know each other well and that's what makes it compelling.

Okay, it will never happen but if you want to give the good teams who lose a Mulligan, maybe you could have the eight section runner-ups play-in against the four state unseeded section winners in a pre-tournament to determine the four unseeded tourney spots? Yeah, there would be some areas unhappy with that arrangement The state seeding conference call would be fun too

[Melvin44]

Melvin I think you should give Stillwater more credit. To say Roseville lost on a questionable goal in the section final is kind of an insult to Stillwater. Stillwater hasnt been complaining about losing the conference championship game to Roseville after the refs completely missed a goal seconds before they were scored on. The first conference game was decided in overtime and the second in the last 3-4 minutes. EITHER team could have won all three. Of course Roseville would have had a great chance if they would have played again, so would have Hopkins but the fact is they both lost when it counted the most. Granted I am biased towards Stillwater but they won those games because they played great and got the breaks when they needed them and they had the deepest team in the state and that is why they are STATE CHAMPIONS.

Guys Gals Guys Gals

I did not say Stillwater didn't deserve to win or that they weren't as good as Roseville. They played 3 one goal games and if they played 10 games each would probably win 5. What I said was wouldn't it have been GREAT to see a game between Stillwater and Roseville at STATE! Geez.

Maybe you'll see my point next year when maybe you lose and don't get to go although you only lose 2 games all year.

Everyone please read carefully. State should be with the best teams possible. Holiday touneys and sections are for participation.

[hockeywild7]

Hockey tourneys and sections are not the same. Sections are a one and done deal to see who moves on to state, tournaments are not even close to that. I know everyone wants what they consider the best 8 teams at state but that would take away all the excitement from sections. The sections are the best "tournament" of the season because of the atmosphere and pressure of having to win or go home. Even if you rank all the teams in the state and seperate them into 8 even sections, the top 8 teams will not make it. There will be upsets and that is what makes sections so exciting to watch. Look at how sections where set up this year. How many number one seeds made it? 5 of 8 in AA and 4 of 8 in class A. I think they could adjust a couple sections but you will never be able to get the top 8 teams in unless you just pick them to go and that would be against the spirit of competition.