Official Road To State U12A Thread

Pens4 · Post by **Pens4** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:12 pm

Jolly...you're right about the tournament directors not giving a straight answer. They were pretty flip about the questions prior to the last round robin games...like we were crossing the line to asking. If the guy had offered me one copy of the tie breaking rules I was going to snap. If MN Hockey is going to have this format...they better put someone other a lippy volunteer in charge with interpreting the rules.

Case in point....both coaches thought they needed to pull the goalie.

jollyroger · Post by **jollyroger** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:29 pm

Pens4 wrote:Jolly...you're right about the tournament directors not giving a straight answer. They were pretty flip about the questions prior to the last round robin games...like we were crossing the line to asking. If the guy had offered me one copy of the tie breaking rules I was going to snap. If MN Hockey is going to have this format...they better put someone other a lippy volunteer in charge with interpreting the rules.

Case in point....both coaches thought they needed to pull the goalie.

Agreed on all points. Even a straight 8 single elimination bracket with 1st place, runner-up, and consolation advancing to state would be preferable to this format.
And I too heard that the Wayzata coach was preparing to pull his goalie until he saw the Highland goalie vacate. (It turns out he was right and that Highland only needed to win by 2). That's a clusterfart of a situation.
And finally, D2's district tournament is equally screwed up. It's not a true double elimination, and they play a 2nd place game on the last Sunday morning that's absolutely meaningless. And the volunteers at that event are as vague and flip as they are in this one.

pinsplitter · Post by **pinsplitter** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:29 pm

OMG 1
M.V. 4

Edina 3
Burnsville 1

Sunday
1# Eden Prairie vs 2# Burnsville
1# Edina vs 2# Highland Park

OuttaTheZone · Post by **OuttaTheZone** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:08 pm

Pens4 wrote:Case in point....both coaches thought they needed to pull the goalie.

Clearly, it should have been the responsibility of the tournament director to inform each team what the magic number was BEFORE the game. Acting on different information caused a weird situation to develop.

In any case, the fact that the coaches have to play a game and take outside factors in consideration corrupts the game, for sure. However, in reality, it's a fact of life in pool style tournaments.

One of the biggest problems in the American region tournament (and I'm sure others) has been the obvious lack of clarity of the tie-break procedures. The procedures are not documented in the game program for the fans nor on the Minnesota Hockey official website. I'd like to assume that the procedures were in the coach's packet.

EZ · Post by EZ » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:55 pm

Here is the rule. The tricky part of the interpretation is that you only factor in the results of the tied teams and not the results vs. the other teams. Double elimination is a much better format

Method of determining a champion in round robin tournament play: The standings shall be determined on the basis of two (2) points for a win, zero (0) points for a loss, and one (1) point for a tie. (During district, region and state tournaments, regardless of format, all games will be played to a win/lose situation. There will be no ties.).

If two or more teams have an equal number of points, their position in the standings shall be determined by:

a. The results of the games played between the tied teams in the following order:

1. The points acquired in these games.

2. Subtracting goals scored against from goals scored in these games. Their position shall be in order of the greatest surplus.

3. Dividing the goals scored in these games by the goals scored against. The positions being determined in order of the greatest quotient.

b. If after applying the formulas of a.1, a.2, or a.3 the tie still exists, a.2 and a.3 shall be applied using all the games played by each team. When the tie involves three or more teams, their position in the standings shall be determined by the following tie-breaking format. If one tie-breaker establishes a position for one or more teams, each team is placed in the applicable position. Once a team is placed, the remaining tied teams shall start the tie-breaking process again at step 3.a.1.

c. If the above procedure does not break the tie, the team that scored the first and fastest goal in a game will be the tie-breaker. If the teams are still tied, the teams shall use a shoot out procedure. This will involve each team selecting five (5) players who will alternate taking penalty shots. A toss of the coin will determine which team will take the first shot. If after five (5) players from both teams have completed this procedure, the tie still has not been broken, it shall be repeated with five (5) different players until the standings are determined.

pinsplitter · Post by **pinsplitter** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:49 am

Burnsville 3
E.P. 1

Burnsville to State!

rinkrat555 · Post by **rinkrat555** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:46 pm

GO BLAZE!!!!!!

Phish12 · Post by **Phish12** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:58 pm

Who won the Edina vs Highland game?

Phish12 · Post by **Phish12** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:01 pm

Found it. Highland won 4-3 in OT. Pretty big upset in my book.

blondegirlsdad · Post by **blondegirlsdad** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:36 pm

So, Edina and EP get a shot at ending each other's season. Pretty fitting, I guess.

That Wayzata elimination was the big upset, I think. Burnsville is good, but both Edina Green and EP are better, IMHO.

Burnbabyburn · Post by **Burnbabyburn** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:34 pm

Thanks for your support.
Blaze play well in this environment. We're big and experienced. That 3rd place game should be fun, Edina's very banged up. If EP gets physical with them, they could win, but EP is a little small and will probably try to skate with Edina which I don't think anyone can.
Why can't the guy in Stillwater update the Minnesota Hockey site. All the other regions are doing a good jobm but this guy's still stuck on yesterday morning.

jollyroger · Post by **jollyroger** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:57 pm

Phish12 wrote:Found it. Highland won 4-3 in OT. Pretty big upset in my book.

So Highland smokes Wayzata 4-1 (it wasn't that close even) and then beats Edina 2-1 in OT and you're all upset. What does it take? Have any of you seen Highland play? I guess you're supposed to be from the western suburbs to play hockey.....

See you in Grand Rapids?????

Does anybody know the extent of Sam Behr's injury? Our thoughts are with her--it looked pretty bad at the time.

Phish12 · Post by **Phish12** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:08 pm

jollyroger, no disrespect to Highland at all. In fact, quite the opposite. Major props to the Capitals!!! My point was that Edina came in ranked No. 1 in LPH and were favored by many on this site to win a state championship. Highland was No. 8, so obviously a very strong team in their own right, but not likely the favorite. I would call that an upset, so congrats to Highland!!! As an aside, I am from EAST of the river, not WEST. That said, I am a fan of great hockey no matter where the team is from. Highland played great and I wish the team nothing but the best at state.

fanfourhky · Post by **fanfourhky** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:38 pm

Unfortunately Sam Behr doesn't really know anything yet. She went to the ER and the only thing they could tell her is that she needed to see an Ortho. I could have told her that!!

Keep her in your thoughts - I am sure she is hoping for every chance to play in Grand Rapids!

jollyroger · Post by **jollyroger** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:41 pm

Phish12 wrote:jollyroger, no disrespect to Highland at all. In fact, quite the opposite. Major props to the Capitals!!! My point was that Edina came in ranked No. 1 in LPH and were favored by many on this site to win a state championship. Highland was No. 8, so obviously a very strong team in their own right, but not likely the favorite. I would call that an upset, so congrats to Highland!!! As an aside, I am from EAST of the river, not WEST. That said, I am a fan of great hockey no matter where the team is from. Highland played great and I wish the team nothing but the best at state.

Yep, I understand, thanks, still a little wound up after this wild weekend.

mitts · Post by **mitts** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:11 pm

Who does Sam Behr play for?

bestbuyer · Post by **bestbuyer** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:56 pm

I think Sam Bear plays for Edina

Phish12 · Post by **Phish12** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:50 pm

Edina bounced back and beat EP 3-0, so hopefully this young lady will recover and have a fun time at state.

fanfourhky · Post by **fanfourhky** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:47 pm

mitts wrote:Who does Sam Behr play for?

She plays defense for Burnsville

pinsplitter · Post by **pinsplitter** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:34 pm

blondegirlsdad wrote:So, Edina and EP get a shot at ending each other's season. Pretty fitting, I guess.

That Wayzata elimination was the big upset, I think. Burnsville is good, but both Edina Green and EP are better, IMHO.

You have to give Burnsville a little more credit than that. I'll admit E.P. beat us 3 times during the season and districts. But when things got important we were able to take E.P., OMG and Mounds View. During the year in tournament play we were able to beat Anoka twice, Cottage Grove and Wayzata. Most importantly who is going to state and who is not?

U10Father · Post by **U10Father** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:48 pm

Congrats to Burnsville. They have the formula to beat Edina and EP, which is to get in front of them, slow them down, and frustrate them. We had a nice time, came close aganst EP, but were probably a little over our head. We'll be back next year.

It should be fun to see how state comes out. Single elimination is always tricky.

OuttaTheZone · Post by **OuttaTheZone** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:16 pm

12U A American Region State Seedings

#1 Burnsville (defeated Eden Prairie)
#2 Highland (defeated Edina Green)
#3 Edina Green (defeated Eden Prairie)

pinsplitter · Post by **pinsplitter** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:48 pm

In the National, this is how I think it is. Please correct me if I am wrong
1# Cottage Grove
2# Lakeville
3# Anoka

In the Olympic, this is how it looks:
1# Roseau
2# Thief River Falls

U10Father · Post by **U10Father** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:09 pm

If all the above is true, and how would you know, based on the Minnesota Hockey site (which is ridiculously behind), then let's predict the winner.

Anoka/Highland - two fairly even teams, Anoka has some trouble scoring, so edge to Highland

Roseau/Lakeville - No offense or anything, but the two teams from the north have no shot in Grand Rapids unless they spike the water. Roseau beat up a bunch of northern teams up, but when you look at the scores against the metro, they only beat the mediocre teams. Lakeville by 5.

Cottage Grove/Burnsville - Played already, Burnsville won. CG doesn't give up a lot of goals, but guess who scored the most against them all season? Burnsville. Blaze might be dinged up, but I'll take them to edge CG.

Thief River Falls/Evil Empire - Edina, in Running Time. Edina WHITE could beat TRF.

2nd Round: Highland/Lakeville - Again, they already played, Lakeville beat 'em. This might be closer, but Lakeville should win.

Edina/Burnsville - Why should things change now? Edina beats Burnsville, they have all year. Nice draw at State for the Empire, they should waltz to the finals. Did they purposely put themselves in that 3rd seed?

Finals: Lakeville/Cakeeaters - I'd like to say Lakeville will win, they won at Edina's tournament. But Lakeville will have two (slightly) tougher games to get there, so as much as it pains me, I think the Hornets will win.

It's a shame that Eden Prairie, Wayzata and Andover aren't there and those two teams from the North are, but that's just the way the system works.

jollyroger · Post by **jollyroger** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:47 pm

One big flaw in your thinking--reporting on previous meetings of the teams. The team I support has no resemblance at all to what they looked like in mid-February, much less December. And they haven't peaked yet.

That being said, if I had to bet I'd agree with all of your picks except CG will beat Burnsville (without Sam Behr especially) and Lakeville over Edina.