MoveYourFeet wrote:Here it is, straight from USA Hockey (website)
Registration Season Date Change
At the January, 2009 Winter Meeting, the USA Hockey Board of Directors reviewed the recommendation of the District Registrars to change the USA Hockey registration season to May 1 through April 30. This recommendation was approved by the Board of Directors and will take effect for the 2009-10 season.
Those are the new dates because most club teams (outside MN) have their tryouts May 1 or after for the upcoming year.
The question is....Do all districts have to comply with this rule or can they augment and change or keep current registat dates in place? If anyone knows, please pass on what you know.
I know Minnesota Hockey does not meet until April 15 I believe but do not know if this is on the agenda for update and or change.
That doesn't have anything to do with the age limits. That refers to the insurance year for registration, basically, or your benefits as 'registered' USA hockey member.
Baseball doesn't do it by grade if you are with Gopher State. They use April 30th as a cutoff. (I don't know about other leagues) For baseball my 5th grader plays with the peewee, for hockey they split.
The wizard of Forest Lake comes through again.
I learned from the best, and as of yesterday, I have all of this free time on my hands.
Baseball does use a April 30 date for many organizations including AAU, USSSA, MSF, ASA, MBT, and Gopher State. Not sure why they don't use May 31st. AAU, and Little League may or may not use it, but they do use a reverse which allows all of these kids in Minnesota to compete, I think they may use a August 31 date...which takes again the summer birthdates. Instead of a born on or before. They use a born on or after. It is a improvement in allowing kids to play with their peers.
In baseball a player in many associations has the choice when they register at what age group they will participate with, and they stay with that group. For example a June 5th, 1999 birthdate in 4th grade can choose 10 year old travel baseball this season. However a different June 5th,1999 birthdate child that is 3rd grade can wait till next year before beginning 10 year old travel baseball....Thus play with their peers.
Whatever these governing bodies are, both of these children will be eligible for youth baseball in all competition. Including Cal Ripken and Cooperstown.
iwearmysunglassesatnight wrote:You didn't answer my question...what about the kid who gets held back a year in school?....does he get to play another year at the same level as well instead of moving up to play the level the kids his same age have to? How about the whiz kid who jump a year in a school? Is he forced to play up? What if he isn't physically capable to make that jump on in level?
Simply saying that kids should play with kids in the same grade doesn't appropriately deal with the scenarios I outlined in the paragraph above. For those reasons, grades won't work, it has to be age.
If you do the age cutoff at 8/31 then, for the most part, you will get kids playing with other kids that are in the same grade AND you don't have to deal with the scenarios we are talking about.
Muck
How does baseball / football / hoops handle it? MN Hockey has in their reasoning "following normal progress in school" .. this is part of how they looked to choose a date where kids will play with their peers. Is it possible they could use from the time you enter kindergarten? I may not be correct on this, but I believe there is less kids failing a grade nowadays. And ones that due are probably not playing travelling hockey.
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I don't know how football and basketball handle it as my kids don't play those sports, but baseball uses a date cutoff, not by grade.
Another scenario you might run into by going with grade level instead of birthday.... We could see hockey moms and dads everywhere not sending their kids to kindergarten until they are 6 or 7 years old to give their kids an advantage over other kids that start when they are 5.
Well MN youth hockey season is definitely coming to a end. My brothers kids is a July birthdate. Started school at the age of 6. I thought that was odd. I have learned that many other kids with summer birthdays did so as well. My brother tells me even more so with parents that can afford too, and many do play hockey. He showed me article about relative age, and parents are basically being encouraged to wait till summer b-days are age 6. It is trend of the times, not necessarily sports related. Do you spend 12 months more on a daycare, or $35k in todays dollars for one more year of college. Parents are waiting to send their summer b-days till they are ready.
One of my own kids has a August b-day. He did start school at age 5. His association today would allow him to play "up" with his grade without any recourse. But he could also have decided to stay back and play bantams as a 10th grader if he wished. I checked some others, and they will allow that as well. If MN Hockeys goal was to go w/ July 1 to allow all of those summer b-days, perhaps they should look now at moving it too June 1 and include the change in demographics. You could use Sept 1 if doing a reverse, instead born on or before... it is a born on or after. However I would be surprised if there is many if at all non summer b-days that are affected by this. Perhaps that is why USA hockey had June 1 at one point. Oh well, do what is best for MN Hockey and gets more kids to play, and keep playing. Weigh the positives and negatives, that is why Minnesota Hockey has a board.
Here is from Minnesota Hockey meeting minutes: To me this seems like something that should be addressed, otherwise why would be written? I would guess the majority of these were kids wanting to play with their peers.
Registrars Reports
" PLAY DOWN REQUESTS"
"We have a number of players this season that are playing down to a lower level without the required written approval from the District Registrar"
Last edited by council member retired on Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ACTUALFORMERPLAYER wrote:The "only for sports" hold back has been happening for years.
Sure, for sports that base their levels on what grade the player is in at school. Hockey isn't one of those sports, and shouldn't be.
If you plan ahead to high school it is. Check some birth dates of some of the former MR. Hockey winners. It might seem early to hold your 5 year old back just to get that extra year of varsity but it has payed off.
BTW, I'm on your side. (Only on this)
ACTUALFORMERPLAYER wrote:The "only for sports" hold back has been happening for years.
Sure, for sports that base their levels on what grade the player is in at school. Hockey isn't one of those sports, and shouldn't be.
If you plan ahead to high school it is. Check some birth dates of some of the former MR. Hockey winners. It might seem early to hold your 5 year old back just to get that extra year of varsity but it has payed off.
BTW, I'm on your side. (Only on this)
I am not aware how to check the birthdate of some of the former MR Hockey winners. What is it for the last 6 winners? What percentage of players is it overall that do have summers birthdates? thanks
"Another scenario you might run into by going with grade level instead of birthday.... We could see hockey moms and dads everywhere not sending their kids to kindergarten until they are 6 or 7 years old to give their kids an advantage over other kids that start when they are 5"
U.S. department of education has a law in place that children must start school by the age of 6. On another note many states have "raised" the minimum age for starting kindergarten. Less than 7.5% of children born between Sept - May in Minnesota start school at the age of 6. Obviously this number is a very minimal amount when you just add the percentage that play hockey. Dept of education does not make readly available what percentage of the 7.5% is special needs, but statistically you could draw a large number from the 7.5% being in that catergory. It is summer birthdays starting school at the age of 6. And in hockey not being able to play with their peers. This can be hard on the child both emotionally and socially.
muckandgrind wrote:
Sure, for sports that base their levels on what grade the player is in at school. Hockey isn't one of those sports, and shouldn't be.
If you plan ahead to high school it is. Check some birth dates of some of the former MR. Hockey winners. It might seem early to hold your 5 year old back just to get that extra year of varsity but it has payed off.
BTW, I'm on your side. (Only on this)
I am not aware how to check the birthdate of some of the former MR Hockey winners. What is it for the last 6 winners? What percentage of players is it overall that do have summers birthdates? thanks
Roughly 30%. The oldest winner was Aaron Miskovich. Others with pre-September birthdays were Larry Olimb, Joe Dziedzic, Darby Hendrickson, Mike Crowley, and John Pohl. Aaron Ness accelerated his graduation or he would have made this list. Four winners I could not find their exact birthdate. One was George Pelawa but he was not draft eligible until his Senior year so he doesn't fall into this category. I do not pretend to have any direct knowledge of each families reason to hold their child back. These were the best of the best. How many others got a scholarship because they were 19 years old playing against kids three years younger?
Those kids are covered by the current system. They stay with their grade because of the July first date. The only people in an uproar about them are the parents who can't stand another year of mite hockey and "have" to have their child play squirts, and than only if they are first time hockey parents. Relax and enjoy it. So, the argument about the Mr. hockeys is that it pays to be the oldest kid in your class and play your grade.
Google relative age and you'll read some interesting things. The fact is that if you stay as the oldest in your age group it is more beneficial than playing against older kids, because the players have success and build confidence. Play against older kids on the pond, don't push the rules to have them do it during the season, unless they are playing with their grade. I think socially in Jr. high it means a lot for the kids to play with their grade and I'd recommend it. We haven't had problems in our association because of it, and than the kids get to play both of their Bantam years. I don't have a dog in the fight, I could care less if my 8 year old plays mites for the 5th year next year. We gambled on Minnesota move to the USA hockey dates and shot for all January birthdays
I already know a man who is lining up people to run for the local board because his 6 year old kindergarten can't possibly play mites another year. He should be allowed to tryout with the squirts because he's better than some of the kids that will be playing A squirt next year.....so what, he plays A squirts for five years?? Stay, build a strong group at his age group and have fun.
playwithyourgrade wrote:"Another scenario you might run into by going with grade level instead of birthday.... We could see hockey moms and dads everywhere not sending their kids to kindergarten until they are 6 or 7 years old to give their kids an advantage over other kids that start when they are 5"
U.S. department of education has a law in place that children must start school by the age of 6. On another note many states have "raised" the minimum age for starting kindergarten. Less than 7.5% of children born between Sept - May in Minnesota start school at the age of 6. Obviously this number is a very minimal amount when you just add the percentage that play hockey. Dept of education does not make readly available what percentage of the 7.5% is special needs, but statistically you could draw a large number from the 7.5% being in that catergory. It is summer birthdays starting school at the age of 6. And in hockey not being able to play with their peers. This can be hard on the child both emotionally and socially.
Again, you STILL haven't answered the question about what do you do with the kid who gets held back a year in school or the kid who skips a grade. Should they benefit or be punished by this?
The kids being held back would benefit. But what about the "academic all-star" who skips 5th grade and goes straight to 6th? Will he be forced to forego his final year of squirt hockey and jump to PeeWee where he may not be physically ready to handle the checking?
Using 8/31-9/1 as the birthday cut-off is the best solution.
My vote would be for a June 1 cutoff if they were going to change it. Many parents of boys born in the summer are told by our educators that it is better to start them when they are a young 6 rather than a young 5. Many boys are not mature enough to handle school when they are a young 5. We late started my boy late because we did not feel he was ready for kindergarten, he was also premature which would have put his normal B-day in September. We had no idea on how USA hockey or any other sports institution set up their classifications, that was not our motivation.
Having a June 1 date will allow more boys to play with their classmates. It only really affects June B-dates now, but changing it to August 31 would affect many more. In our association, July and August B-days are allowed to move up if they are playing with their classmates.
I would leave it as is since it minimizes the relative age affect when combined with birth year AAA.
Also, by moving it back to August 31, you would have a lot of kids (maybe 15%) who would lose a year of youth hockey.
What is wrong with going by birth year like most states and all of Canada do? Does birth year not determine grade level in Minnesota? I never quite understood why it is done differently in minnesota
DMom wrote:Those kids are covered by the current system. They stay with their grade because of the July first date. The only people in an uproar about them are the parents who can't stand another year of mite hockey and "have" to have their child play squirts, and than only if they are first time hockey parents. Relax and enjoy it. So, the argument about the Mr. hockeys is that it pays to be the oldest kid in your class and play your grade.
Google relative age and you'll read some interesting things. The fact is that if you stay as the oldest in your age group it is more beneficial than playing against older kids, because the players have success and build confidence. Play against older kids on the pond, don't push the rules to have them do it during the season, unless they are playing with their grade. I think socially in Jr. high it means a lot for the kids to play with their grade and I'd recommend it. We haven't had problems in our association because of it, and than the kids get to play both of their Bantam years. I don't have a dog in the fight, I could care less if my 8 year old plays mites for the 5th year next year. We gambled on Minnesota move to the USA hockey dates and shot for all January birthdays
I already know a man who is lining up people to run for the local board because his 6 year old kindergarten can't possibly play mites another year. He should be allowed to tryout with the squirts because he's better than some of the kids that will be playing A squirt next year.....so what, he plays A squirts for five years?? Stay, build a strong group at his age group and have fun.
Come on now, do you really think he thinks that about his 6 year old?
DMom wrote:Those kids are covered by the current system. They stay with their grade because of the July first date. The only people in an uproar about them are the parents who can't stand another year of mite hockey and "have" to have their child play squirts, and than only if they are first time hockey parents. Relax and enjoy it. So, the argument about the Mr. hockeys is that it pays to be the oldest kid in your class and play your grade.
Google relative age and you'll read some interesting things. The fact is that if you stay as the oldest in your age group it is more beneficial than playing against older kids, because the players have success and build confidence. Play against older kids on the pond, don't push the rules to have them do it during the season, unless they are playing with their grade. I think socially in Jr. high it means a lot for the kids to play with their grade and I'd recommend it. We haven't had problems in our association because of it, and than the kids get to play both of their Bantam years. I don't have a dog in the fight, I could care less if my 8 year old plays mites for the 5th year next year. We gambled on Minnesota move to the USA hockey dates and shot for all January birthdays
I already know a man who is lining up people to run for the local board because his 6 year old kindergarten can't possibly play mites another year. He should be allowed to tryout with the squirts because he's better than some of the kids that will be playing A squirt next year.....so what, he plays A squirts for five years?? Stay, build a strong group at his age group and have fun.
Come on now, do you really think he thinks that about his 6 year old?
Ugh wrote:Associations need more people like you to stick around & help. What are you doing in April?
They need more people who are willing to listen to Elliott
In April, our board and volunteers will sit down and lay out a five year proposal for the membership. They'll map out next year and the committees will get to work on making it happen. We have a fabulous community of volunteers, who while they may not see eye to eye, and they may not work side by side, the vast majority are still working toward what is best for the kids and the community.
I personally understand and support a child/family who turns 9 in July or August and is entering the 4th grade, playing squirts (or 11, PeeWees, or 13, Bantams). But someone help me to understand why would moving the date to Sept 1st be a good idea and allowing the child turning 9 in July or August to play squirts as a 3rd grader?? There's a good chance I'm missing something here, is it because the individual associations need that language forced on them?
