The Real 2009 MN Hockey State Champion? A vs. AA

[Gopher Blog]

I agree with you most of the time Gopherblog, but this time .......
Lotta single a teams have pumped out the best players this country has ever seen.
I,m not sayin, Im just sayin.

Individual players? Yes, I agree. No argument from me.

But this discussion was about TEAMS. With very few exceptions (usually the Class A private school), it isn't really all that close on the high end of both classes.

The pace of the game and the overall play was much better in the AA games.

[MNhockey9711]

How fast we all forget for many years there was only one class and many "small class A" schools won state titles. Would it happen every season of course not but it would happen so for anyone to say class AA would be the only champ year after year its crazy. ANYONE who is narrow minded enough to say AA is the only state champ better stop and remember history. Also lets not forget if Moorhead pulls the upset tonight they only beat Warroad in overtime in Moorhead, so whats that say to me? That the top teams of class A can compete with the top teams of AA

[defense]

How fast we all forget for many years there was only one class and many "small class A" schools won state titles. Would it happen every season of course not but it would happen so for anyone to say class AA would be the only champ year after year its crazy. ANYONE who is narrow minded enough to say AA is the only state champ better stop and remember history. Also lets not forget if Moorhead pulls the upset tonight they only beat Warroad in overtime in Moorhead, so whats that say to me? That the top teams of class A can compete with the top teams of AA

Very nice..
I'll add: How many top AA teams actually opt up??????? Hint: there are only TWO schools St. Cloud and north in AA that don't opt up......

[TheHockeyDJ]

Since the MSHSL is worried about teams having a chance to play in the state tourney and a chance to play at the Xcel, I agree, one class and a 16 team field.

Have double header section finals at 8 different locations on the last Saturday in Feb.

The next week you have 16 teams at the Xcel. 4 games on Friday, 4 games on Saturday. Then you have 8 teams left for the following week Thur.-Sat.

[goldy313]

As I've asked in other threads; would anyone complain if the opt up requirement was only 1 year for class A schools?

One year isn't enough, and I think four is too many. The MSHSL redoes the sections every two years, I don't know why the committtment isn't a two year committment.

These teams have the option to play AA hockey, they choose not too, those that do; East, Cretin, Hill, etc can play for the AA title, Warroad and Breck hav no right to even claim they're the best team in the state, they choose to stay in A.

[defense]

As I've asked in other threads; would anyone complain if the opt up requirement was only 1 year for class A schools?

One year isn't enough, and I think four is too many. The MSHSL redoes the sections every two years, I don't know why the committtment isn't a two year committment.

These teams have the option to play AA hockey, they choose not too, those that do; East, Cretin, Hill, etc can play for the AA title, Warroad and Breck hav no right to even claim they're the best team in the state, they choose to stay in A.

However, Roseau NEVER won a section 8A championship, they started to go to state under the current two class structure after they moved to AA. Ask yourself, wich section is tougher, 8A or 8AA?

[Doc Holliday]

However, Roseau NEVER won a section 8A championship, they started to go to state under the current two class structure after they moved to AA. Ask yourself, wich section is tougher, 8A or 8AA?

8A's tougher because the talent in Roseau wasn't as good in the mid 90s?

Bottom Line: Warroad could win the next 10 Class A titles and they'll NEVER get as much respect from people throughout the state compared to the 2 that Roseau has won at the Class AA level and the fact that they continue to play at the AA level. Doesn't take away from what Warroad has accomplished as a program, but they'll always be seen differently compared to Roseau because of AA/A classification.

[denverpioneers#1]

i know for a FACT that the A teams could play with the AA teams and even beat them. did you know that one of the most historic a best teams ever is a measly A team, that opted up to a AA team for the competiton. that team is Roseau. they are a little tiny school. and they kick the snot out of edina, etc.. also didnt the 1980 usa team of kids beat the greatest team in hockey russia? in hockey anything is possible. all it takes is one shot or one save.

[denverpioneers#1]

they should not have even had the a vs. aa seperation. they should have had the two best teams from each section go to a 16 team tourney. because i believe that some section title games are actual state title games. sometimes the two best teams are in the same section.. this system needs fixing.. also there is a problem with private schools. they can recruit players and i am surpriced that these teams do not dominate.

[Gopher Blog]

i know for a FACT that the A teams could play with the AA teams and even beat them. did you know that one of the most historic a best teams ever is a measly A team, that opted up to a AA team for the competiton. that team is Roseau. they are a little tiny school. and they kick the snot out of edina, etc.. also didnt the 1980 usa team of kids beat the greatest team in hockey russia? in hockey anything is possible. all it takes is one shot or one save.

In a one game "winner takes all situation", yes... upsets happen and the "little guy" can still win.

But the reality is the quality of play on the whole hasn't been nearly as good on the Class A level as it has been in AA. There are exceptions (as I said, some private schools are a prime example) but, on the whole, there is a pretty clear difference in quality.

Roseau deserves props for taking on the challenges they do. I have a major appreciation for the way they try to go for the big title as opposed to taking the easy way out.

[defense]

However, Roseau NEVER won a section 8A championship, they started to go to state under the current two class structure after they moved to AA. Ask yourself, wich section is tougher, 8A or 8AA?

8A's tougher because the talent in Roseau wasn't as good in the mid 90s?

Bottom Line: Warroad could win the next 10 Class A titles and they'll NEVER get as much respect from people throughout the state compared to the 2 that Roseau has won at the Class AA level and the fact that they continue to play at the AA level. Doesn't take away from what Warroad has accomplished as a program, but they'll always be seen differently compared to Roseau because of AA/A classification.

I agree, Warroad will never get as much respect as Roseau has gotten, does that mean it's right???? No.
Honestly, man, look at 8AA, Moorhead, Roseau, St. Cloud Tech high school......Brainerd....then who??????
8A: Warroad, East Grand Forks, Theif River Falls, Crookston, ...Baudette...
not that much difference and an argument could be made either way.

Quality of hockey in the northern part of the state is NOT correlated to who plays in the "Metro" class or who plays in class A.

The point: The argument that all top level AA competition is way ahead of A competition is very weak and getting weaker with more former opt uppers chosing to play in A.

[HockeyMN1]

Again, the "hockey's different" talk. The MSHSL runs the classes in hockey the same way it runs the classes in all other team sports.

As I've asked in other threads; would anyone complain if the opt up requirement was only 1 year for class A schools?

Yes, there would be complaints. There would be teams bouncing up and down as their good and bad classes go by. If you are gonna opt up, stay up. If you are gonna stay down, fine, but don't complain about the opt up requirement.

[notyouraveragejoe]

I am pretty new here, but in reading through your comments it seems to me to be a logistical nightmare if schools were to have the opportunity to "up" to a new level. Brackets of teams would be constantly changing even worse than they are now. Plus what would ultimately decide if they could "up"? Many A teams are deep, many not, much like AA.

[thinkb4engaging]

As you know, it is not the players who decide to play at the AA level. In fact, most coaches do not have the power to pull the trigger. It is usually up to the AD and Headmaster (principal) of the school. I really like the 16 team format. How it would be organized, I have know idea.

Sat next to a former coach and AD who was in the "think tank" for the A vs. AA or maybe actually the different tiers (which we had the 1st year or two).
He thought they ruined a good thing. The intentions were good by getting more participants but the overall final product was not as intended.

[MrBoDangles]

People can be real idiots! Warroad and Roseau could team up and take the AA crown almost every year, and their numbers combined would still probably qualify them for class A - Maybe northern schools should team up every year to match metro schools enrollments.
The metro has numbers going for it, so don't boast too much.