That article really goes out on the limb. So after reading this article:
Giles is loaded with great assistant coaches
Giles is loaded with above average players
Giles has the numbers
Giles has the support
Giles has the funding
Giles has the history
Giles is giving back to hockey
Giles is a great mentor
Giles is well liked by the coaches he hired
This is all great but there will be a time when the Edina faithful question why they haven't won the state tourney with all the tools and more importantly the players to do it.
There is no doubt in my mind that Ikola would've had different results with some of these teams in the state tourney. Giles has coached good enough to get them to state. If you're satisfied with that great. I know a lot of Edina fans not too happy and questioning why they haven't won state at least once the past three years.
I really think the media over-hyped Edina the past three years it was all too simple Edina might not be as good as advertised. I think so many people bought into the idea that the glory days were back in Edina hockey.
I guess we'll have to see what type of magic he does with next years team?
doubleeagle wrote: I have no idea what game you were watching.Moorhead's goal that was disallowed would have been the first goal of the game.It was not 2-0 and then the goal was disallowed.
Moorhead did not quit,they ending up outshooting EP 28-21 for the game.The game was closer than the 3-0 score indicated.But there is no doubt they were the better team that night.Don't throw Moorhead under the bus;they over-achieved at the tournament.
I hate to burst your bubble but the disallowed goal was a perfect call in that game. Leddy was looking the other way and the Moorhead skater tripped over Leddy's skate and into the goalie which is goalie interference and the call was made.
It's great that Moorehead outshot EP in the championship game but last I looked they don't give out trophys for outshooting a team in state. Moorehead lost. Get over it!
I didn't say it was a bad call.I've watched it more than a few times and it was the correct call.Also,I realize they don't give out trophies for SOG,just using it to point out Moorhead didn't quit with 2 periods of hockey left.
I agree! I like Mooreheads determination in each and every game. Gotta love it. Talk about coaching: You have to give the coach a lot of credit for turning eveything around this year.
Judgeandjury wrote:This is all great but there will be a time when the Edina faithful question why they haven't won the state tourney with all the tools and more importantly the players to do it.
There is no doubt in my mind that Ikola would've had different results with some of these teams in the state tourney. Giles has coached good enough to get them to state. If you're satisfied with that great. I know a lot of Edina fans not too happy and questioning why they haven't won state at least once the past three years.
I really think the media over-hyped Edina the past three years it was all too simple Edina might not be as good as advertised. I think so many people bought into the idea that the glory days were back in Edina hockey.
I guess we'll have to see what type of magic he does with next years team?
Wait a moment. First you say this was the team with the tools and players to win the state tourney, then you say they were overhyped and not as good as advertised, and then you blame the coaching?
Judgeandjury wrote:This is all great but there will be a time when the Edina faithful question why they haven't won the state tourney with all the tools and more importantly the players to do it.
There is no doubt in my mind that Ikola would've had different results with some of these teams in the state tourney. Giles has coached good enough to get them to state. If you're satisfied with that great. I know a lot of Edina fans not too happy and questioning why they haven't won state at least once the past three years.
I really think the media over-hyped Edina the past three years it was all too simple Edina might not be as good as advertised. I think so many people bought into the idea that the glory days were back in Edina hockey.
I guess we'll have to see what type of magic he does with next years team?
Wait a moment. First you say this was the team with the tools and players to win the state tourney, then you say they were overhyped and not as good as advertised, and then you blame the coaching?
Your intellect is dizzying.
I think they did have the tools
I know they were over-hyped by the media for the past three years
As for Giles coaching I guess the future teams will determine his outcome. I can tell you that some Edina fans are starting to ask if he's the answer and you have a good share of people that stand behind him. Like it or not Edina has not won the state championship in recent years with some pretty good teams. If Edina is happy just getting to state with some good teams then all is well with Edina hockey. I just don't want to listen to the media each and every year showcase Edina hockey.
Edina, much like UNC in college hoops, suffered from excessive expectations. Sure, they had one of the most talented teams around. However, I would like to point out that Edina tends to garner more hype, and if that same roster were on a team without Edina's history, the expectations would have been more realistic, and the team more successful. As a CDH grad, I see this all the time with our football and baseball teams. Giles, I'm only guessing here, committed a fatal error in allowing his players to believe the hype without ever truly earning it. EP was built to win a title, Edina was built to get press.
saintpaulhockey wrote: EP was built to win a title, Edina was built to get press.
Their first, which is worth pointing out. Easy to question why teams don't win more, harder to actually do it. (Reading some of the above posts, me wonders why no one is saying, "how come Eden Prairie has only won one state title...I mean, c'mon, they have all the *fillintheblankcoachingplayersresourceswhatever*?")
We wouldn't have this discussion if the MSHSL playoffs were Best 3-of-5 series or even 2-of-3. Edina would have won at least one title in the past three seasons.
We also wouldn't love the state tournament as much.
About overplaying the top line...I didn't see the final, but a friend said Leddy didn't leave the ice. Granted he's a defenseman and can conserve energy differently than a forward, but it doesn't come up because it worked. Had Edina won either this season or last Giles' choice to run Everson and Lee into the ground would have been looked at in a different light.
saintpaulhockey wrote: EP was built to win a title, Edina was built to get press.
Their first, which is worth pointing out. Easy to question why teams don't win more, harder to actually do it. (Reading some of the above posts, me wonders why no one is saying, "how come Eden Prairie has only won one state title...I mean, c'mon, they have all the *fillintheblankcoachingplayersresourceswhatever*?")
We wouldn't have this discussion if the MSHSL playoffs were Best 3-of-5 series or even 2-of-3. Edina would have won at least one title in the past three seasons.
We also wouldn't love the state tournament as much.
About overplaying the top line...I didn't see the final, but a friend said Leddy didn't leave the ice. Granted he's a defenseman and can conserve energy differently than a forward, but it doesn't come up because it worked. Had Edina won either this season or last Giles' choice to run Everson and Lee into the ground would have been looked at in a different light.
I agree completely. Things don't always go as expected or wanted. That's life.
Edina had the talent to win this year (and last year I believe). Whether it was coaching or just bad luck running into a very determined and powerful Moorhead team, we will never truly know.
I do agree with karl and don't quite understand the circular reasoning judgeandjury is using to make whatever point he is trying to make. He obviously is not an Edina fan but he seems to be beating a dead horse. Yes, Edina lost. Yes, Edina had the talent to win and were a better team than EP. These things happen in State Tournaments but I don't really agree they were over-hyped. I have had the pleasure on a couple of occassions to watch those boys play and they were really good. The defense had a tough tournament (with the exception of Baker), but I think Edina overall was that good, just not on Thurs. night.
grindiangrad-80 wrote:I have had a lot of respect for the Edina teams going back to the early '70's.
As far as the team itself, it has probably been the best team in the state over the last 3 years. (There are a few others that would be in the mix)
According to most on here, when Roseau got beat last year it was because of the "weak" schedule they played all year.
According to most on here, when GR beat Edina at state 2 years ago, it was a fluke.
When Edina loses at state, it's because anyone can have an off night.
Here's a couple stats for you to chew on.
GR is 29-13 all time at state.
They are 1-6 at state vs. teams from up north.
They are 28-7 vs teams not from up north. (including 4-1 recently)
They have played Edina-Jefferson- Hill a total of 14 times.
GR is 9-5 in those games. (including 2-0 recently)
Maybe when Roseau and GR and Duluth East get beat at state, it's for the same reason that Edina and Hill and Jefferson lose at state.
It's not that easy to win it all.
I agree, you have to go 6-0 to win the State Tournament, but please, we all understand the past Edina, Grand Rapids, Roseau, Moorhead history dating back 40 years, but this is 2009. Team make up, players, the game speed, parents attitude and coaching has changed a lot over the past years. Back in the 70's we didnt have elite leagues, Ann Arbor program and the private schools that steal players from the hometown high school program. The Northern schools don't have as many opportunities as the city players have and are more likely to stay at their school which is why a team like Moorhead, Duluth, Roseau, Warroad, Rochester, Hutch and so on makes it to the State Tournament with a senior class of players.
grindiangrad-80 wrote:I have had a lot of respect for the Edina teams going back to the early '70's.
As far as the team itself, it has probably been the best team in the state over the last 3 years. (There are a few others that would be in the mix)
According to most on here, when Roseau got beat last year it was because of the "weak" schedule they played all year.
According to most on here, when GR beat Edina at state 2 years ago, it was a fluke.
When Edina loses at state, it's because anyone can have an off night.
Here's a couple stats for you to chew on.
GR is 29-13 all time at state.
They are 1-6 at state vs. teams from up north.
They are 28-7 vs teams not from up north. (including 4-1 recently)
They have played Edina-Jefferson- Hill a total of 14 times.
GR is 9-5 in those games. (including 2-0 recently)
Maybe when Roseau and GR and Duluth East get beat at state, it's for the same reason that Edina and Hill and Jefferson lose at state.
It's not that easy to win it all.
The Northern schools don't have as many opportunities as the city players have and are more likely to stay at their school which is why a team like Moorhead, Duluth, Roseau, Warroad, Rochester, Hutch and so on makes it to the State Tournament with a senior class of players.
saintpaulhockey wrote: EP was built to win a title, Edina was built to get press.
Their first, which is worth pointing out. Easy to question why teams don't win more, harder to actually do it. (Reading some of the above posts, me wonders why no one is saying, "how come Eden Prairie has only won one state title...I mean, c'mon, they have all the *fillintheblankcoachingplayersresourceswhatever*?")
We wouldn't have this discussion if the MSHSL playoffs were Best 3-of-5 series or even 2-of-3. Edina would have won at least one title in the past three seasons. We also wouldn't love the state tournament as much.
About overplaying the top line...I didn't see the final, but a friend said Leddy didn't leave the ice. Granted he's a defenseman and can conserve energy differently than a forward, but it doesn't come up because it worked. Had Edina won either this season or last Giles' choice to run Everson and Lee into the ground would have been looked at in a different light.
Another over hyped statement. You talk about this being the greatest team that never won. I am not so sure they would win a best of series. In the famous words of Denny Green: "They are who we thought they were."
Lakeviewing wrote:Back in the 70's we didnt have elite leagues, Ann Arbor program and the private schools that steal players from the hometown high school program.
Better check your history on the private schools - they've been "stealing" players for a long time!
Judgeandjury wrote: I just don't want to listen to the media each and every year showcase Edina hockey.
You're in the wrong sport. Anytime Edina or Roseau are in the tournament they will dominate the attention because they have the history. Here's a warning - Keep your daughters away from tennis.
Don't blame the media for bringing Edina into your life. You are doing enough with your gossip about "word out of Edina" and just the fact that you keep contributing to this thread. If only you could put a muzzle on the guy who started this thread then you wouldn't have to keep hearing about Edina. You wouldn't happen to know who that moron is, would you?
Are people in Edina disappointed in the results of the past 3 years? Yes, they know these teams were exceptionally strong contenders. Are they calling for Gile's head? No, they are realistic. Does that mean they are content with second places and consolation championships? Look around Braemar on your next visit and count non-state/national championship banners. You won't need a calculator.
your dead wrong "people in the know" do want giles out. The problem is the old a.d. protected him 3 years ago and the new a.d. doesn't have the spine. But, count on this the army is comming and will keep comming until shorty is gone for good!!
I can take a whole day and make this list longer, but here are some pretty good on-the-field leaders of men who could never raise an index finger and declare supremacy over all rivals in their sport:
Bud Grant, Marv Levy, Gene Mauch, Bo Schembechler
I invite others to add to this list of unquestionably outstanding coaches/managers.
knockneed wrote:your dead wrong "people in the know" do want giles out. The problem is the old a.d. protected him 3 years ago and the new a.d. doesn't have the spine. But, count on this the army is comming and will keep comming until shorty is gone for good!!
I find it quite possible there are some folks out there who could get better results than Giles. Do I expect the administration to be able to identify and select such a person? Probably not. He is good enough, I think, that replacing him would likely result in a downgrade. Better just keep him.
knockneed wrote:your dead wrong "people in the know" do want giles out. The problem is the old a.d. protected him 3 years ago and the new a.d. doesn't have the spine. But, count on this the army is comming and will keep comming until shorty is gone for good!!
The people I have talked to from Edina, including players and their parents, all seem to have a tremendous amount of respect for Giles and his coaching style, so I doubt he'll be gone on anyone else's terms in the near future.
Judgeandjury wrote:The sad truth is the fact that these players gave up a chance to play for the U.S. development team or USHL...I think because this group of so called super stars didn't get the job done it will make the decision easier for future Edina stars. Go to the development program or USHL.
I'm sure they're extremely disappointed to not have won it all, but I seriously doubt they are looking at it this way. After all, they did get to the big stage three times, they played a very challenging schedule over the three years, during which they got tons of publicity, and they got their college scholarships (including Harvard, Notre Dame and the U of M). But maybe most important they got to stay in their hometown and spend their high school years with their friends, classmates and families.
All in all, not a bad tradeoff if you ask me.
I agree completely with MNHockeyFan. Frankly, I think the opposite line of thinking is way, way off.
I remember thinking, back when I heard about the pact that they made as sophomores to stay at Edina, that it could be a great thing for MN hockey if they stuck together. They did, and they've served as the perfect example of how kids can end up exactly where they want to be WITHOUT bolting for juniors and undergoing that complicated process. I'd be willing to bet a fair amount of money that, given the chance to do it all over again, they'd all do the same thing. Sure, not everything worked out completely, and that is going to gnaw at them for a while. But high school is about so much more than just a trophy in a single sport, and from my observations of this group, they seem to understand that completely.
Reinforcement of this, courtesy of the SI article, with quotes from Brendan Baker:
Michael Farber wrote:"My heroes [growing up] weren't guys who played for the [NHL's Minnesota] Wild," says Baker, 17, a defenseman who will play for Holy Cross next year. "They were guys who played at the high school."
Michael Farber wrote:In a postmatch press conference that bubbled with emotion, Baker was asked if he would have made that eighth-grade vow again knowing that he would never achieve his goal. A catch in his voice, he replied, "I wouldn't give up growing up with my friends for anything."
Judgeandjury wrote: I just don't want to listen to the media each and every year showcase Edina hockey.
You're in the wrong sport. Anytime Edina or Roseau are in the tournament they will dominate the attention because they have the history. Here's a warning - Keep your daughters away from tennis.
Don't blame the media for bringing Edina into your life. You are doing enough with your gossip about "word out of Edina" and just the fact that you keep contributing to this thread. If only you could put a muzzle on the guy who started this thread then you wouldn't have to keep hearing about Edina. You wouldn't happen to know who that moron is, would you?
Are people in Edina disappointed in the results of the past 3 years? Yes, they know these teams were exceptionally strong contenders. Are they calling for Gile's head? No, they are realistic. Does that mean they are content with second places and consolation championships? Look around Braemar on your next visit and count non-state/national championship banners. You won't need a calculator.
You're right! Edina does have the history and the banners to prove their success. I disagree with your take on Giles just like many others. Like I said if Edina is happy just making the tourney then more power to Edina. I feel with some new direction some others might have done different things with this team over the past three years. I also hear great things about Giles. Just because someone is a great person doesn't make him a great coach. I guess we'll see what the future brings. Lets not forget he has all these great assistants too.
Two years ago Edina had the super sophomores that will impress.
Last year the poor kids ran into a hot goalie against the Hill.
This year Budish was the missing link.
As for EP. Now they have their first state title in hockey lets see if the high school program can keep some of the better players. We all know what they can do in football. Just think what they can do if they keep all their kids for hockey versus losing kids to private schools.
Do they even play tennis in Minnesota? Haven't noticed.
grindiangrad-80 wrote:I have had a lot of respect for the Edina teams going back to the early '70's.
As far as the team itself, it has probably been the best team in the state over the last 3 years. (There are a few others that would be in the mix)
According to most on here, when Roseau got beat last year it was because of the "weak" schedule they played all year.
According to most on here, when GR beat Edina at state 2 years ago, it was a fluke.
When Edina loses at state, it's because anyone can have an off night.
Here's a couple stats for you to chew on.
GR is 29-13 all time at state.
They are 1-6 at state vs. teams from up north.
They are 28-7 vs teams not from up north. (including 4-1 recently)
They have played Edina-Jefferson- Hill a total of 14 times.
GR is 9-5 in those games. (including 2-0 recently)
Maybe when Roseau and GR and Duluth East get beat at state, it's for the same reason that Edina and Hill and Jefferson lose at state.
It's not that easy to win it all.
I agree, you have to go 6-0 to win the State Tournament, but please, we all understand the past Edina, Grand Rapids, Roseau, Moorhead history dating back 40 years, but this is 2009. Team make up, players, the game speed, parents attitude and coaching has changed a lot over the past years. Back in the 70's we didnt have elite leagues, Ann Arbor program and the private schools that steal players from the hometown high school program. The Northern schools don't have as many opportunities as the city players have and are more likely to stay at their school which is why a team like Moorhead, Duluth, Roseau, Warroad, Rochester, Hutch and so on makes it to the State Tournament with a senior class of players.
Judgeandjury wrote:You're right! Edina does have the history and the banners to prove their success. I disagree with your take on Giles just like many others. Like I said if Edina is happy just making the tourney then more power to Edina. I feel with some new direction some others might have done different things with this team over the past three years. I also hear great things about Giles. Just because someone is a great person doesn't make him a great coach. I guess we'll see what the future brings. Lets not forget he has all these great assistants too.
OK, now you're making a little more sense.
My point is that HS hockey coaches' jobs really should not be decided on wins and losses, but on how they work with the kids they have. Of course, coaches have been run out of towns in the past for a perceived failure strictly on performance. But I would frown on that in practically every situation. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of a high school coach, and I hope people in Edina realize that.
It will be interesting to see what the future brings for Edina hockey.
Things could be a lot worse if Edina doesn't make the state tourney the past three years. Giles does deserve a lot of credit and I've heard he's a great guy.
With this said people in Edina also pay a lot of money to win and they expect to win.
They have plenty of wins in recent years they just haven't been able to win the big one and people are starting to question.
