***Alliance teams***

[Judgeandjury]

1) What is the latest news on alliance teams?
2) Which teams or programs are part of the alliance?
3) What logical sense does it make to have alliance teams?

We all agree that youth hockey is for the kids. Once you have adults creating alliances what does this say about the state of youth hockey? Let the kids play hockey.

Some say the alliance was created so more and more AAA teams don't pop up yet two programs that started the alliance have both watered down AAA hockey in Minnesota. Interesting how both programs are in it for the money and now they're trying to squeeze the other teams out.

[imaloserbaby]

1) What is the latest news on alliance teams?
2) Which teams or programs are part of the alliance?
3) What logical sense does it make to have alliance teams?

We all agree that youth hockey is for the kids. Once you have adults creating alliances what does this say about the state of youth hockey? Let the kids play hockey.

Some say the alliance was created so more and more AAA teams don't pop up yet two programs that started the alliance have both watered down AAA hockey in Minnesota. Interesting how both programs are in it for the money and now they're trying to squeeze the other teams out.

Alliance Teams (I think):
1. Machine, Deuce, Snipers and Grinders
2. Minnesota Legacy
3. Easton Stealth and Synergy (Showcase)
4. Team Monopoly
5. Team CCM (Showcase???)

My understanding of the logic was to kill off the AAA startup's and the AAA teams that have been around for a while and are a threat to taking the talent level from the teams listed above. The means to accomplish this was to eliminate their participation in the Showcase and Minnesota Made tournaments.

The Blades are above this situation and don't seem to be challenged by the Alliance concept.

As for the latest news on the Alliance teams - not sure, but it doesn't appear that the Alliance concept has made the Alliance teams stronger but possibly encouraged other AAA programs to ramp up their infrastructure and offerings to compete with Showcase and Minnesota Made.

[Judgeandjury]

It appears that certain teams are not part of this so called alliance. But yet they're invited to play in tourneys.
I remember when the alliance was introduced the Blades made it very clear that they are not part of and will never be part of any alliance. It will be interesting to see if they plan on playing in any alliance tourneys.

Keep in mind the reason why this alliance was formed to keep new AAA programs from starting up competitive teams. Competitive teams will take good players away from their programs which equals less money.
With that said the two programs that started the alliance have both watered down AAA hockey by forming weaker teams to make more money. I fear that each year this so called alliance will accept more and more teams if they feel the need. So the two money making programs will soon be making a lot of money and dictating where teams play AAA summer hockey.

[muckandgrind]

The problem isn't so much a "watering down" of AAA teams, as there are plenty of exceptional players in this state to create additional top notch teams...the problem is that many of these start-ups don't do a good job at atracting the available top players and settle for lesser talent instead to fill out their rosters.

A good example of this is that St. Croix "AAA" Hockey program.....it's AAA in name only. The problem with that program is they'll settle for anyone who's parents are willing to write a check....what they need is to bring in a good coach or two who has been around and can convince some good players to particpate. Believe me, there are LOTS of quality players who currently don't play summer hockey, but could be convinced to play under the right circumstances.

[Judgeandjury]

The problem isn't so much a "watering down" of AAA teams, as there are plenty of exceptional players in this state to create additional top notch teams...the problem is that many of these start-ups don't do a good job at atracting the available top players and settle for lesser talent instead to fill out their rosters.

A good example of this is that St. Croix "AAA" Hockey program.....it's AAA in name only. The problem with that program is they'll settle for anyone who's parents are willing to write a check....what they need is to bring in a good coach or two who has been around and can convince some good players to particpate. Believe me, there are LOTS of quality players who currently don't play summer hockey, but could be convinced to play under the right circumstances.

The alliance was started by one of the two programs that offered competitive teams last year and failed miserable. If you ask both these programs why they started the alliance they'll tell you there's too many AAA teams starting up but yet they both offer terrible AAA teams that play in open tourneys.

[muckandgrind]

The problem isn't so much a "watering down" of AAA teams, as there are plenty of exceptional players in this state to create additional top notch teams...the problem is that many of these start-ups don't do a good job at atracting the available top players and settle for lesser talent instead to fill out their rosters.

A good example of this is that St. Croix "AAA" Hockey program.....it's AAA in name only. The problem with that program is they'll settle for anyone who's parents are willing to write a check....what they need is to bring in a good coach or two who has been around and can convince some good players to particpate. Believe me, there are LOTS of quality players who currently don't play summer hockey, but could be convinced to play under the right circumstances.

The alliance was started by one of the two programs that offered competitive teams last year and failed miserable. If you ask both these programs why they started the alliance they'll tell you there's too many AAA teams starting up but yet they both offer terrible AAA teams that play in open tourneys.

Are you referring to Easton? Because they were competitive at the Invite level at a few tournaments last year...not at all ages, but some. Not bad for a first year.

If you're referring to AAA Showcase, sure there are definitely some weak teams at some birth years, but stronger teams at other birth years.

That being said, I disagree with the whole concept of an "alliance". I also disagree that there are too many AAA teams. The problem is that there are too many AAA teams that call themselves "AAA" when they don't have the players capable of playing at the AAA invite level. It's not as if there aren't enough quality players to fill these teams, it's just that the some of the coaches hired for these teams don't have the ability to attract many quality players or don't have the connections.

One of the problems when you talk AAA is that many programs are strong in some birth years, and not so strong in others. Myself, I'm more familiar with the 95 and 98 birth years. At 95, the Edge are growing into a strong team as well as the Magicians this year (formerly the Mission). The 98 birth year is still in-flux outside of the Machine. The 98 Blades are re-grouping and watch out for 98 RBK this year.

Oh well, the discussion is interesting as will be how these teams fair in the upcoming tournaments.

[goaliegirl]

It appears that certain teams are not part of this so called alliance. But yet they're invited to play in tourneys. Think
I remember when the alliance was introduced the Blades made it very clear that they are not part of and will never be part of any alliance. It will be interesting to see if they plan on playing in any alliance tourneys

Blades are in the Stars and Stripes

[MoveYourFeet]

Muck has a good point along with others and I will echo it.

Too many people want to put together "AAA" teams to satisfy parents cravings for their own athlete, and making money is definitely a part of it, but not for all of them I believe.

Parents want opportunities for their kids and gravitate to the "other" AAA programs, Showcase included because they want the same opportunities. This has been the cause of the "watering down" as some of you put it. Those programs see the craving and offer the product. When Machine has Deuce, Grinders and Snipers they have set levels and expectations for their players and coaches. For example, MM has a practice agenda that is supplied by the Director and coaches follow the plans with some flexibility, IMO there needs to more of this in hockey at both AAA and Association level because we have too many parents that like to wear the Showcase sweatshirt/jacket/hat just like the kids do and pony around with the label of "coach" for their own satisfaction without having the skills/knowledge of putting together a practice plan. Showcase, Legacy/Cyclone, others mentioned from what I know do not do have a curriculum like that.

It all boils down to supply and demand, those parents need to know that "buyer beware" is up to them and them only.

Thats it.... I M done for now! Now I expect a few retorts.

______________

I wanna drive the Zamboni

[InigoMontoya]

I think it's fabulous that a whole bunch of kids want to play hockey in the summer time. I think it's fabulous that a whole bunch of organizations want to offer them that opportunity.

In a market driven system, the educated consumer will want the best value (what you get (product and place) for what you're willing and able to pay (price)). The best value will attain and retain the best players. In the same way, the best tournaments will attain and retain the best teams.

The irony is that sticking a fork in the spokes of that open system will likely result in the opposite of the desired effect.

[MrBoDangles]

Muck has a good point along with others and I will echo it.

Too many people want to put together "AAA" teams to satisfy parents cravings for their own athlete, and making money is definitely a part of it, but not for all of them I believe.

Parents want opportunities for their kids and gravitate to the "other" AAA programs, Showcase included because they want the same opportunities. This has been the cause of the "watering down" as some of you put it. Those programs see the craving and offer the product. When Machine has Deuce, Grinders and Snipers they have set levels and expectations for their players and coaches. For example, MM has a practice agenda that is supplied by the Director and coaches follow the plans with some flexibility, IMO there needs to more of this in hockey at both AAA and Association level because we have too many parents that like to wear the Showcase sweatshirt/jacket/hat just like the kids do and pony around with the label of "coach" for their own satisfaction without having the skills/knowledge of putting together a practice plan. Showcase, Legacy/Cyclone, others mentioned from what I know do not do have a curriculum like that.

It all boils down to supply and demand, those parents need to know that "buyer beware" is up to them and them only.

Thats it.... I M done for now! Now I expect a few retorts.

______________

I wanna drive the Zamboni

Legacy/Cyclone? What a mm homer! And we have a winner "MOST IDIOTIC POST 2009" trophy for the idiot!

[Judgeandjury]

I'm fine with AAA hockey as long as a select few people don't try to dictate the pace and make money doing it.
It's pathetic when you have two money making programs trying to claim the better players and more importantly the money.

One program goes out on a limb and promises great things to both the parents and kids. If the parents spend the money and the kids skate 6-10 hours a week good things will happen. Wow! What a concept. This guy is a genius in his own heart. Who ever thought having a kids skate endless hours day after day was the key to their success? Not to mention add in a little speach here and there about hard work and dislipline, maybe throw in a little fear me because I know it all speach and you have yourself a good mixture hockeyknowitallitus.

Seriously, this game is for the kids. I don't care if parents wants to spend thousands of dollars a year on hockey. I don't care where they want to play hockey. But you cannot have two money making programs trying to take over AAA hockey by forming an alliance to squeeze everyone else out.

[Judgeandjury]

Muck has a good point along with others and I will echo it.

Too many people want to put together "AAA" teams to satisfy parents cravings for their own athlete, and making money is definitely a part of it, but not for all of them I believe.

Parents want opportunities for their kids and gravitate to the "other" AAA programs, Showcase included because they want the same opportunities. This has been the cause of the "watering down" as some of you put it. Those programs see the craving and offer the product. When Machine has Deuce, Grinders and Snipers they have set levels and expectations for their players and coaches. For example, MM has a practice agenda that is supplied by the Director and coaches follow the plans with some flexibility, IMO there needs to more of this in hockey at both AAA and Association level because we have too many parents that like to wear the Showcase sweatshirt/jacket/hat just like the kids do and pony around with the label of "coach" for their own satisfaction without having the skills/knowledge of putting together a practice plan. Showcase, Legacy/Cyclone, others mentioned from what I know do not do have a curriculum like that.

It all boils down to supply and demand, those parents need to know that "buyer beware" is up to them and them only.

Thats it.... I M done for now! Now I expect a few retorts.

______________

I wanna drive the Zamboni

Legacy/Cyclone? What a mm homer! And we have a winner "MOST IDIOTIC POST 2009" trophy for the idiot!

Minnesota made is not a bad program. What makes Minnesota made great is the fact that the kids get so many more hours skating versus association hockey. By by giving kids more hours equals more development. By saying the director draws up the practice plans a some what of a joke. My son played at Minnesota made all winter and I didn't see one team follow the exact practice plans. In fact one team did everything they could to create their own. Like I said give the kids endless hours of ice and they automatically get better. Not sure why people think the director has all the answers? He has a good thing going and the Mite development is second to none but we need to all realize that the only difference between skating at Minnesota made Mites is 35 association hours compared to 85 hours at the made, and in the squirt league the difference is 85 hours association versus 145 hours at minny made.
Then you have to ask where's the third rink that was supposed to be done last September? Where's the new parking lot? Come on parents sign up for more clinics they need more money to build the dynasty.

[MrBoDangles]

Muck has a good point along with others and I will echo it.

Too many people want to put together "AAA" teams to satisfy parents cravings for their own athlete, and making money is definitely a part of it, but not for all of them I believe.

Parents want opportunities for their kids and gravitate to the "other" AAA programs, Showcase included because they want the same opportunities. This has been the cause of the "watering down" as some of you put it. Those programs see the craving and offer the product. When Machine has Deuce, Grinders and Snipers they have set levels and expectations for their players and coaches. For example, MM has a practice agenda that is supplied by the Director and coaches follow the plans with some flexibility, IMO there needs to more of this in hockey at both AAA and Association level because we have too many parents that like to wear the Showcase sweatshirt/jacket/hat just like the kids do and pony around with the label of "coach" for their own satisfaction without having the skills/knowledge of putting together a practice plan. Showcase, Legacy/Cyclone, others mentioned from what I know do not do have a curriculum like that.

It all boils down to supply and demand, those parents need to know that "buyer beware" is up to them and them only.

Thats it.... I M done for now! Now I expect a few retorts.

______________

I wanna drive the Zamboni

Legacy/Cyclone? What a mm homer! And we have a winner "MOST IDIOTIC POST 2009" trophy for the idiot!

Minnesota made is not a bad program. What makes Minnesota made great is the fact that the kids get so many more hours skating versus association hockey. By by giving kids more hours equals more development. By saying the director draws up the practice plans a some what of a joke. My son played at Minnesota made all winter and I didn't see one team follow the exact practice plans. In fact one team did everything they could to create their own. Like I said give the kids endless hours of ice and they automatically get better. Not sure why people think the director has all the answers? He has a good thing going and the Mite development is second to none but we need to all realize that the only difference between skating at Minnesota made Mites is 35 association hours compared to 85 hours at the made, and in the squirt league the difference is 85 hours association versus 145 hours at minny made.
Then you have to ask where's the third rink that was supposed to be done last September? Where's the new parking lot? Come on parents sign up for more clinics they need more money to build the dynasty.

MM is a great program.

[Judgeandjury]

The Choice leagues are second to none because they offer so much ice time for the young lads. Please don't let anyone fool you. If association offered as much ice time as Minnesota made it's all the same. I'm not sure why people think Minnesota made invented hockey

Give any kid repetition in any sport and the kids will automatically get better. Not to mention Minnesota made has some of the same problems as association hockey. Then the parents buy into the sales pitch of elite status if they devote time, effort and money into the program. Let me add that money is the key word.

One question for everyone: I know that the claim to fame for Minnesota made is the 88 group that was developed by the Blades coaching staff. When you walk into Minnesota made you will see a museum dedicated to the 88 birth years players. It's a very impressive group of players.
Where are the 89's, 90's ect?????????? I know one good group of kids are very successfull and no one can argue the point. Where are the next group of great players? Is there another group?
It was mentioned more than 100 times over the past couples years the next great group of skaters coming through will be the 96's and 99's age groups.
With this said Eric Johnson said the he owes everything to Bernie for developing his skills. Once again Johnson said he was on the ice everyday in the summer for 3 hours a day. If anyone is on the ice for three hours a day every day they BETTER be a good player. I think most will agree.

[gdahl]

a couple three, four or more years ago aaa hockey in minnesota was elite. Today anyone can play aaa. Many association teams are far better and will beat many aaa teams. It is time to rename aaa hockey to "off season rec hockey hockey"

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

[quote="Judgeandjury"]The Choice leagues are second to none because they offer so much ice time for the young lads. Please don't let anyone fool you. If association offered as much ice time as Minnesota made it's all the same. I'm not sure why people think Minnesota made invented hockey

Give any kid repetition in any sport and the kids will automatically get better. Not to mention Minnesota made has some of the same problems as association hockey. Then the parents buy into the sales pitch of elite status if they devote [size=9]time[/size], [size=12]effort[/size] and [size=18]money[/size] into the program. Let me add that money is the key word.

One question for everyone: I know that the claim to fame for Minnesota made is the 88 group that was developed by the Blades coaching staff. When you walk into Minnesota made you will see a museum dedicated to the 88 birth years players. It's a very impressive group of players.
Where are the 89's, 90's ect?????????? I know one good group of kids are very successfull and no one can argue the point. Where are the next group of great players? Is there another group?
It was mentioned more than 100 times over the past couples years the next great group of skaters coming through will be the 96's and 99's age groups.
With this said Eric Johnson said the he owes everything to Bernie for developing his skills. Once again Johnson said he was on the ice everyday in the summer for 3 hours a day. If anyone is on the ice for three hours a day every day they BETTER be a good player. I think most will agree.[/quote]

judge/duckquack/boogerman

I agree with you, but it still takes a athletic ability. You can have beer muscles, but when needed they can still be far from effective. As far as 89' and 90' team there wasn't a minnesota made team. The next team is actually the 96's. They started before the others even older were formed. Is your boy still skating on the Snipers/Grinders or a different MM team this year. How was the experience last year? Would you do the squirt program again ? thanks

[watchdog]

it just keeps getting better all the time!!!!!!

[Judgeandjury]

We're still with Minnesota made. We plan on skating in the squirt league next year just because the hours is so much more than association hockey. 85 versus 145 at the made.

[clutchngrab]

We're still with Minnesota made. We plan on skating in the squirt league next year just because the hours is so much more than association hockey. 85 versus 145 at the made.

Just what a 5th grader needs...145 hours of ice time. Averaging almost an hour of ice a day for 4 months is probably right up on the top of your son/daughters list of things to do. My guess is you don't know because you have never asked. Don't get me wrong, if a kid shows a desire for this kind of immersion into one sport when they are 11 then go for it. In my experience, I have almost never seen it. This is mom and dads call not your kids.

[Xcel-lent]

Judge: If you are saying more ice time automatically makes your player better, then I have to strongly disagree with you.

Ice time combined with good coaching makes a player better. Bad skating, puck handling, shooting, passing and selfish play is not corrected because your kid spends more time on the ice. You need a good coach who actually teaches your child how to play better. I have seen too many former good players turned coaches who do not know how to teach concepts. They just stand there and dictate drills or watch a game but don't correct the kids when they do something wrong so the kid just keeps doing it incorrectly and wa-la it's now an ingrained bad habit.

I saw it this year with my player's team. They got plenty of ice time but no one automatically improved. In fact, no one improved.

IMHO a kid gets better with good coaching and more ice time (things we as parents can research and provide) combined with what the player contributes-athletic ability and desire.

[InigoMontoya]

MM: I think the choice league is only 3 times a week. Are we really complaining about squirts getting 145 hours? A 35 game schedule following the 3-1 practice to game ratio would be 140 hours.

Alliance: The 95 thread is discussing the competition of 10 - 12 teams. Isn't that more fun for kids and spectators than 2 - 4 teams? Be careful what you wish for; this could result in two teams playing each other over and over again, while parents and kids of the other 10 teams have a great summer. There are more than 40 kids in this state that can play.

[muckandgrind]

Judge: If you are saying more ice time automatically makes your player better, then I have to strongly disagree with you.

Ice time combined with good coaching makes a player better. Bad skating, puck handling, shooting, passing and selfish play is not corrected because your kid spends more time on the ice. You need a good coach who actually teaches your child how to play better. I have seen too many former good players turned coaches who do not know how to teach concepts. They just stand there and dictate drills or watch a game but don't correct the kids when they do something wrong so the kid just keeps doing it incorrectly and wa-la it's now an ingrained bad habit.

I saw it this year with my player's team. They got plenty of ice time but no one automatically improved. In fact, no one improved.

IMHO a kid gets better with good coaching and more ice time (things we as parents can research and provide) combined with what the player contributes-athletic ability and desire.

Coaching is a big part of it, but just getting on the ice will help a kid improve drastically as well. "Rink Rat" or "Shinny Hockey" will help a kid become a better hockey just as running a kid through countless drills. I've seen it first hand...I think my kids became better hockey players, not by standing in line waiting to skate through a drill, but by playing games outside with their buddies.

[muckandgrind]

We're still with Minnesota made. We plan on skating in the squirt league next year just because the hours is so much more than association hockey. 85 versus 145 at the made.

Just what a 5th grader needs...145 hours of ice time. Averaging almost an hour of ice a day for 4 months is probably right up on the top of your son/daughters list of things to do. My guess is you don't know because you have never asked. Don't get me wrong, if a kid shows a desire for this kind of immersion into one sport when they are 11 then go for it. In my experience, I have almost never seen it. This is mom and dads call not your kids.

I know many kids who play just one sport. Some only play basketball year round (association in the winter, AAU in the summer), I know kids who only play baseball and some others who only play football or soccer. Some kids play two sports, some kids play three or four sports. There is no "right" number of sports. And regardless of the so-called "experts" continue to spew out, playing multiple sports does not always make someone a better athlete. How many sports do you think Pele played as a kid?

One of my sons happens to play football, golf and hockey. However, football and golf didn't help him out out in terms of playing hockey. On the flip side, I would say that playing hockey makes him better at football (speed, coordination, quickness and agility) and golf (hand to eye and club swing). How do I know this? He didn't start playing organized football until he hit the 9th grade and became a very good player without ever having played the sport before.

It's my opinion that you let kids play what they want to play. If they only want to play hockey, then don't force them to play multiple sports under the guise that it "makes them a better athlete", just playing hockey combind with whatever natural ability they have WILL turn them into a good athlete all on it's own.

What this all has to do with the AAA "Alliance", I'll never know....

[Judgeandjury]

We're still with Minnesota made. We plan on skating in the squirt league next year just because the hours is so much more than association hockey. 85 versus 145 at the made.

Just what a 5th grader needs...145 hours of ice time. Averaging almost an hour of ice a day for 4 months is probably right up on the top of your son/daughters list of things to do. My guess is you don't know because you have never asked. Don't get me wrong, if a kid shows a desire for this kind of immersion into one sport when they are 11 then go for it. In my experience, I have almost never seen it. This is mom and dads call not your kids.

Actually you couldn't be more wrong. If I had a rink in my back yard he would skate each and every day all year long.
Unless you've been part of the Choice league you cannot even comment which is better.
The Choice Mite league is second to none and it's not even close. The Choice squirt league will beat all squirt "B" teams and beat most of the weaker squirt "A" teams.
Keep in mind that I like the Choice leagues but don't understand why the alliance has to be developed?
It makes me sick that two profit organizations want to take over elite status AAA hockey in Minnesota. Once again they claim they don't want watered down AAA teams but yet they both have very weak AAA teams in their programs. Both have just recently started weaker teams to make more money.
Want proof? Watch the two programs I'm talking about and let me know how their weaker teams fair this year in tourneys. Spare me on give them time to develop teams and players. Remember they both just started these teams for the same reasons they started the Alliance.
If these teams get stronger then any program can do the same thing. Let's not forget they need the money coming in. There are so many other cheaper routes for AAA hockey. The important part of off-season hockey is to keep the kids skating and good coaching and most important is to have fun.

[watchdog]

how can i get my kid in the alliance? is this part of mm because my son really wants to jump in on that too.. so many choices i dont know what to do.. this crap should be a movie. why dont you all do yourselves a favor find a nice outdoor ice sheet in the winter and start bringing your kid their every night. heck dad you can strap the skates on to and who knows you and your son might have some fun. do you guys actually listen to yourselves? shoot some pucks in the summer out in the yard,play some golf go fishing get a life!!!!!!!!