***Alliance teams***

gretzguy · Post by **gretzguy** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:30 pm

watchdog wrote:... this crap should be a movie.

Actually Dog it kind is.

gilmour · Post by **gilmour** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:19 pm

gretzguy wrote:
watchdog wrote:... this crap should be a movie.
Actually Dog it kind is. Check out the Canadian mockumentary "The Tournament". It was a series in Canada for two seasons that's now available on DVD.

And always remember the play. You all know it. We've been practicing it all season. GET THE PUCK TO MCCONNELL !!!

...and "don't ruin this opportunity by trying to have fun!".

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:31 am

watchdog wrote:how can i get my kid in the alliance? is this part of mm because my son really wants to jump in on that too.. so many choices i dont know what to do.. this crap should be a movie. why dont you all do yourselves a favor find a nice outdoor ice sheet in the winter and start bringing your kid their every night. heck dad you can strap the skates on to and who knows you and your son might have some fun. do you guys actually listen to yourselves? shoot some pucks in the summer out in the yard,play some golf go fishing get a life!!!!!!!!

Hey Father-knows-best, you don't think it's possible to play summer hockey and have a life? I tell you what, playing summer hockey is less of a daily grind than baseball is and allows us to spend MORE time together as a family going fishing, camping, throwing the ball around, play golf, etc.

Vapor · Post by **Vapor** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:27 am

watchdog wrote:how can i get my kid in the alliance? is this part of mm because my son really wants to jump in on that too.. so many choices i dont know what to do.. this crap should be a movie. why dont you all do yourselves a favor find a nice outdoor ice sheet in the winter and start bringing your kid their every night. heck dad you can strap the skates on to and who knows you and your son might have some fun. do you guys actually listen to yourselves? shoot some pucks in the summer out in the yard,play some golf go fishing get a life!!!!!!!!

Nicely stated ! Maybe the kid is saying he wants to play all year round at 9, but is he/she burned out at 15 ? Development will basically stop then.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:52 am

Vapor wrote:
watchdog wrote:how can i get my kid in the alliance? is this part of mm because my son really wants to jump in on that too.. so many choices i dont know what to do.. this crap should be a movie. why dont you all do yourselves a favor find a nice outdoor ice sheet in the winter and start bringing your kid their every night. heck dad you can strap the skates on to and who knows you and your son might have some fun. do you guys actually listen to yourselves? shoot some pucks in the summer out in the yard,play some golf go fishing get a life!!!!!!!!
Nicely stated ! Maybe the kid is saying he wants to play all year round at 9, but is he/she burned out at 15 ? Development will basically stop then.

I've never seen a study on "burn out"....just a bunch of speculation, IMO. If a kid likes to do something, and they are good at it, they will probably never get burned out on it. If a kid likes to play drums, do we tell him that he must put the drum sticks down for the summer. If a kid likes to play basketball, do we tell him to not shoot hoops in the summer? If a kid likes to read books, do we tell him to not read over the summer?

I'll steal this from someone else who said it better, but kids who quit playing sports when they are 15 probably are quitting for reasons other than burnout. It could be girls, developing other interests, may be they just aren't good at that sport. I have been around this sport for close to 40 years and I have seen very few cases of kids quitting a game they are passionate about because they are "burnt". IMO, burnout is over hyped.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:55 am

Watchdog also seems a little disingenuous touting the virtues of metro kids golfing and fishing when his indoor arena is open to all comers.

sorno82 · Post by **sorno82** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:43 am

The burnout question is complex and there definitely is no one right answer since every kid and every situation is different. Muck, there are plenty of studies that show year round and intense competition can wear on a kid. The key is intensity and pressure. If there is a lot of intensity and pressure year round, then the kid may burn out, but that kid may be doing it for the parents, and not himself. No two situations are identical and coming up with one sentence anecdotal explanations doesn’t further the debate. What has been presented is the great increase in repetitive use injuries in kids who specialize, and the fact that the body adapts to a given physical stimulus, so providing a variety to shock the body provides more development. That is why multiple sports are brought up to allow kids to physically and mentally recover from continuous, high pressure athletic competition in one sport. The other issue is that some people just stack the sports which can stress the kids system.

Structured hours are a lot different than unstructured hours. Kids skating outside or rink rat hockey provides a nice alternative to structured time running the same drills over and over. Both are needed, but how a kid reacts to each is a product of that individual. Low pressure participation does not have the same potential negative impact as high pressure/intensity.

There are many reasons why kids stop participating in sports. It could be the constant year round participation wears a kid out and burn-out shows itself as lack of skill. It could be mental burnout, or teen angst. Or, the kid just may not be very good. Any great athlete needs skill, speed, coordination, stature, and strength to succeed as they get older. Some kids may have an abundance of one or two elements which make them stand out when they are young, but the other elements do not develop and you have an incomplete athlete who may give up when they get older.

Kids who do well in multiple sports may just be very good athletes and will do well in any sport they take up. Some will say that multiple sports created the athlete, others will say that the kids a good athlete and can do anything. Antonio Gates didn’t play football in college, but is now one of the best tight-ends in football. Football is different since great athletes can pick it up at anytime and succeed.

Each kid is different and the parent must decide what is in the best interest of the kid. Personally, I have a 14 year old who is burning out of her chosen activity, one she chose to specialize in from a young age (I wanted to keep her involved in other activities, but she refused). Her choices are limited now since she did not want to do anything else growing up. Going multiple sports/activities provides a good fall back when the primary sport/activity fades away for whatever reason.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:00 am

sorno82 wrote:The burnout question is complex and there definitely is no one right answer since every kid and every situation is different. Muck, there are plenty of studies that show year round and intense competition can wear on a kid. The key is intensity and pressure. If there is a lot of intensity and pressure year round, then the kid may burn out, but that kid may be doing it for the parents, and not himself. No two situations are identical and coming up with one sentence anecdotal explanations doesn’t further the debate. What has been presented is the great increase in repetitive use injuries in kids who specialize, and the fact that the body adapts to a given physical stimulus, so providing a variety to shock the body provides more development. That is why multiple sports are brought up to allow kids to physically and mentally recover from continuous, high pressure athletic competition in one sport. The other issue is that some people just stack the sports which can stress the kids system.

Structured hours are a lot different than unstructured hours. Kids skating outside or rink rat hockey provides a nice alternative to structured time running the same drills over and over. Both are needed, but how a kid reacts to each is a product of that individual. Low pressure participation does not have the same potential negative impact as high pressure/intensity.

There are many reasons why kids stop participating in sports. It could be the constant year round participation wears a kid out and burn-out shows itself as lack of skill. It could be mental burnout, or teen angst. Or, the kid just may not be very good. Any great athlete needs skill, speed, coordination, stature, and strength to succeed as they get older. Some kids may have an abundance of one or two elements which make them stand out when they are young, but the other elements do not develop and you have an incomplete athlete who may give up when they get older.

Kids who do well in multiple sports may just be very good athletes and will do well in any sport they take up. Some will say that multiple sports created the athlete, others will say that the kids a good athlete and can do anything. Antonio Gates didn’t play football in college, but is now one of the best tight-ends in football. Football is different since great athletes can pick it up at anytime and succeed.

Each kid is different and the parent must decide what is in the best interest of the kid. Personally, I have a 14 year old who is burning out of her chosen activity, one she chose to specialize in from a young age (I wanted to keep her involved in other activities, but she refused). Her choices are limited now since she did not want to do anything else growing up. Going multiple sports/activities provides a good fall back when the primary sport/activity fades away for whatever reason.

I hear what you're saying, but you said it best when you said that "every kid and every situation is different." (forgive the paraphrase). It's up to each parent to pay attention to their kids and try and decide what is best for them. Sometimes you get it right, sometimes you don't....that's the tough part of being a parent. But irregardless of what some around here thing, there is no "right" way of doing it. Countless young hockey players want to play summer hockey BECAUSE it's less intense and pressure filled (for the most part) than winter hockey, in other words, it's more fun!!

dogeatdog1 · Post by **dogeatdog1** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:14 pm

watchdog wrote:how can i get my kid in the alliance? is this part of mm because my son really wants to jump in on that too.. so many choices i dont know what to do.. this crap should be a movie. why dont you all do yourselves a favor find a nice outdoor ice sheet in the winter and start bringing your kid their every night. heck dad you can strap the skates on to and who knows you and your son might have some fun. do you guys actually listen to yourselves? shoot some pucks in the summer out in the yard,play some golf go fishing get a life!!!!!!!!

You gotta love the watchdog.. Nice post! Finally one that doesn't talk about how good your association is...This is one that we should pay attention to! (See I am not all about ripping you. ) Let me know where the fish are biting cause I know that you can't golf in Roseau until July!

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:59 pm

dog do me a favor read my posts and tell me im on here all the time talking up my association. i may point out to many just because their from the cities doesnt mean their in the hockey hot bed of the world but just bragging up roseau hockey i think not. now my kids play some summer hockey so i know you can enjoy all life has to offer in the summer months but you have people on here talking 145 hours. thats boarder line insanity. thats all im saying.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:23 pm

I'm sure the Judge will be happy to speak for himself, but I read his post to be about winter hockey - association vs. choice - mites & squirts.

145 hours of summer ice would indeed be a lot.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:30 pm

watchdog wrote:dog do me a favor read my posts and tell me im on here all the time talking up my association. i may point out to many just because their from the cities doesnt mean their in the hockey hot bed of the world but just bragging up roseau hockey i think not. now my kids play some summer hockey so i know you can enjoy all life has to offer in the summer months but you have people on here talking 145 hours. thats boarder line insanity. thats all im saying.

He was talking about the "Choice League" which takes place during the winter months.

dogeatdog1 · Post by **dogeatdog1** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:57 pm

watchdog wrote:dog do me a favor read my posts and tell me im on here all the time talking up my association. i may point out to many just because their from the cities doesnt mean their in the hockey hot bed of the world but just bragging up roseau hockey i think not. now my kids play some summer hockey so i know you can enjoy all life has to offer in the summer months but you have people on here talking 145 hours. thats boarder line insanity. thats all im saying.

Don't read into my post.. I was giving you a compliment.. I understand that people down here are nuts. But so are people from North. I remember a baseball coach growing up..up north that wouldn't pick a hockey kid for fear that he would quit baseball in 9th grade... at least down here they worry about losing you to a private school..I always say stay grounded our you'll get hit by lightning.

Judgeandjury · Post by **Judgeandjury** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:10 pm

watchdog wrote:dog do me a favor read my posts and tell me im on here all the time talking up my association. i may point out to many just because their from the cities doesnt mean their in the hockey hot bed of the world but just bragging up roseau hockey i think not. now my kids play some summer hockey so i know you can enjoy all life has to offer in the summer months but you have people on here talking 145 hours. thats boarder line insanity. thats all im saying.

145 hours is borderline insantity? Let me ask if a squirt plays 85 hours in the winter and skates another 85 hours outdoors is this acceptable in your hockey 101 book?

Do what's best for your family. I've always said there's no sure way of handling youth sports. It depends on the coaching and the kids involved.

3GoonsWest · Post by **3GoonsWest** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:25 am

Once again, these things spin so far from the original topic. As I understood it, the supposed alliance is an attempt to improve the quality of AAA hockey in the state by pulling some of the top non-Minnesota talent to the metro tournaments. The goal was to get some of the top Canadian teams (Calgary, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, etc.)in addition to the top U.S. teams (Jr. Blues, Mission, etc.)to come to the tourneys without running into a (insert your lower level AAA team name here) and having a 22-0 game, as those games help nobody. When there are Dynamo teams competing with AAA teams, which is the topic of a different thread, how can anyone argue that the caliber of Minnesota AAA is dropping. If you want your kids to compete at a high level, they have to put in the work on the ice. If you want them to have something constructive to do for a few hours in the summer, that's fine too. To each his own, watch your own bobber.

play4fun · Post by **play4fun** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:06 am

3GW,

If the intent of the alliance is to ensure more competitive tournaments to attract teams from outside the metro, how do you explain inclusion of an unproven first year club like the Monopoly? Pit the Machine vs. the Monopoly and you might end up with some pretty lop-sided games even within the alliance.

Note I said "might" for anyone who'd like to defend the Monopoly... We'll see how they do in the coming months. The point is they don't have an established track record of performing at a level that would prevent blowouts against the historically strong teams.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:18 am

Wouldn't that have been accomplished by the Invitational v. Open tourneys? The current situation sounds like it was created by including the wrong teams in the invitationals. I don't see how including/excluding teams based on the criteria cited on other threads with improve this situation. The 98 Icemen seem to travel to play some of the teams the Alliance is wanting to attract, and seems to have fared pretty well; yet they are not invited. I don't see anything that indicates the 98 Synergy/Stealth will travel to play those teams, or do well against them.

I've got one eye on my own bobber, but your bobber is so shiny I can't resist.

3GoonsWest · Post by **3GoonsWest** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:00 am

Easy now. I'm not saying the way it was explained to me is gospel and I've not seen it written down anywhere as to what the intent really is. It would be nice if someone in the inner circle could shed some light on it. I also don't know who was invited and who wasn't invited, why they chose to be "in" or why they chose to be "out". Whether it's a good idea or bad is yet to be determined, time will tell. Anytime you can raise the level of competition, everyone benefits.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:03 am

The Meltdown schedules should be released any day now...it will be interested to see which teams are in and which teams are out. That should answer a lot of these questions about quality of competition,

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:55 am

oh im sorry i miss read the 145 hours. well the diffrence in getting all the extra hours on the ice (when its not practice) is its fun. i know this because if my kids had homework or other things they had to do so they couldn't go to the rink they would cry when they were younger. now i know 2 out of 3 of my kids are tierd of practice at this point even tierd of hockey. i cant imagine how they would feel if they were doing drills all summer. every parent is going to do what they want and believe me when you ask your kid are you sick of hockey 99% of the time they will say no because they know thats what (you) want to hear!!!!

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:07 am

Are your kids saying they're tired of hockey because they know that's what YOU want to hear?

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:24 am

watchdog wrote:oh im sorry i miss read the 145 hours. well the diffrence in getting all the extra hours on the ice (when its not practice) is its fun. i know this because if my kids had homework or other things they had to do so they couldn't go to the rink they would cry when they were younger. now i know 2 out of 3 of my kids are tierd of practice at this point even tierd of hockey. i cant imagine how they would feel if they were doing drills all summer. every parent is going to do what they want and believe me when you ask your kid are you sick of hockey 99% of the time they will say no because they know thats what (you) want to hear!!!!

Assuming that your percentages are correct, than my boys must be in that 1%, because if they go more than 2 weeks without getting on the ice, they start bouncing off the walls and are continuously asking me when the next time they have practice and/or games.

That being said, your percentages are way off. Sure, there are kids who don't want to play summer hockey, but there are countless others who can't get enough and would skate every day if they had the opportunity. Believe me, if my kids didn't want to skate in the summer, they wouldn't be and I would have no problem not having to shell out the money.

iwearmysunglassesatnight · Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:51 pm

[quote="muckandgrind"]The Meltdown schedules should be released any day now...it will be interested to see which teams are in and which teams are out. That should answer a lot of these questions about quality of competition,[/quote]

The open schedule has been out for awhile. The invite schedule is not yet out. Is that because they are hoping for a few miracles at some of the age levels? The quality of teams at some of the levels maybe surprising.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:56 pm

iwearmysunglassesatnight wrote:
muckandgrind wrote:The Meltdown schedules should be released any day now...it will be interested to see which teams are in and which teams are out. That should answer a lot of these questions about quality of competition,

The open schedule has been out for awhile. The invite schedule is not yet out. Is that because they are hoping for a few miracles at some of the age levels? The quality of teams at some of the levels maybe surprising.

Got a link? Because it ain't on the Showcase website/

MoreCowBell · Post by **MoreCowBell** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:43 pm

The fact is Minnesota teams loose to the the top summer AAA teams by at least 6-7 goals just ask the Blades and Machine people. Minnesota hockey is falling by the wayside, most of the Minnesota AAA teams would be embaressed in the Motown, Chicago and Prospects spring summer tournaments.