Meltdown Invite Schedules Released

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:04 am

http://www.showcasehockey.com/filedownl ... 2&site_id=

I'm seeing so-called "non-alliance" teams in this tournament. At the 95 level....Breakaway is made up of many of the Machine players who departed Bernie....but it seems that they are allowed to play in this tournament. Same with the Legacy/Coyotes as well as the Icemen.

Just like I thought, this whole "alliance" thing is either hogwash, or not as sinister as many around here thought.

Sk8 Str8 · Post by **Sk8 Str8** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:35 am

Legacy is part of the "Alliance". So 2 teams are allowed in at the 95 level, but I dont see any other metro teams ("Non Alliance") at the other levels-

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:06 pm

Sk8 Str8 wrote:Legacy is part of the "Alliance". So 2 teams are allowed in at the 95 level, but I dont see any other metro teams ("Non Alliance") at the other levels-

The Blades aren't part of the alliance, and I believe that Team Velocity is a metro team, but I'm not 100% certain of that.....

Road Rage · Post by **Road Rage** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:11 pm

Not an necessarily an impressive lot except for the multitude of top level Canadian teams -- NOT.

...but I dont see any other metro teams ("Non Alliance") at the other levels.

You shouldn't assume that other "Non Alliance" teams at levels other than '95 had an interest in playing. Nor should you keep assuming that teams that are not part of this great Alliance even wanted to be. Teams such as the Icemen declined their invitation to be ruled by the Alliance. Look at the '95 division -- it's not even full yet. The Icemen are probably playing because they were asked to fill a spot in the hope of filling out the '95 division.

Sk8 Str8 · Post by **Sk8 Str8** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:19 pm

RR, I do assume that other Metro teams (beyond the 2 '95 teams that are playing) wanted to play in a big Metro tournament to get some games played in April. If you add up the teams in the Meltdown open/invite/Stars & Stripes you have roughly 200 teams, only a handful of which look like they are Metro based non Alliance.

The Alliance is built to lock out all other Metro programs from the Meltdown, Easton Cup, Stars and Stripes and Independent Cup. That means you find new Metro tournaments (a couple have started this year) or go to Fargo, Grand Forks, Duluth, Winnipeg or Chicago for games.

Joining the Alliance meant "partnering" with Showcase, code for giving money and control to get access to play in these tournaments, and there is no argument many teams and programs declined.

hockey1510 · Post by **hockey1510** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:37 am

Can someone explain to me if there is a GOOD reason for this whole alliance thing, or is it just Showcase trying to make more money and "rule the AAA world". I would like to think that those who run these tournaments are, in addition to making a nickle, interested in putting together the strongest field possible. In this case it looks more like Showcase is trying to make sure that THEIR teams win the championship and if they can't then they are going to at least make sure that they are "compensated" for losing.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:10 am

hockey1510 wrote:Can someone explain to me if there is a GOOD reason for this whole alliance thing, or is it just Showcase trying to make more money and "rule the AAA world". I would like to think that those who run these tournaments are, in addition to making a nickle, interested in putting together the strongest field possible. In this case it looks more like Showcase is trying to make sure that THEIR teams win the championship and if they can't then they are going to at least make sure that they are "compensated" for losing.

What they are TRYING to do is fill the tournament with strong out of state teams, and it appears that are achieving that goal....when you look at the tournament fields. It's too bad that some of the quality in-metro teams are left out of it....but they seem to be coping just fine by forming their own tournaments. Let's wait and see how this all shakes out.

buttend · Post by **buttend** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:39 am

hockey1510 wrote:Can someone explain to me if there is a GOOD reason for this whole alliance thing, or is it just Showcase trying to make more money and "rule the AAA world". I would like to think that those who run these tournaments are, in addition to making a nickle, interested in putting together the strongest field possible. In this case it looks more like Showcase is trying to make sure that THEIR teams win the championship and if they can't then they are going to at least make sure that they are "compensated" for losing.

I highly doubt any "Showcase" team will win at any Invite level. As far as making "More" money, I'm not sure what you mean. In 2009 at the Invite level there are 6 Boys levels w/ 43 teams. In 2008 at the Invite level there were 6 boys levels and 44 teams. 1 less team 1 less team fee.

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:43 am

Good observation M&G.

Here's something to consider. Also think about Judge and Jury's story. What I've heard is out of town teams register, pay, come and play their games and go home.

Some in town teams are nothing but an endless stream of problems, babies and issues. Invite kids playing on open teams. Invite level teams in open level tourneys. Kids playing on multiple teams. Invite teams playing an age level up in open tournaments. Dealing with wacked parents from all angles, emotion, false claims, and more.

The local tourney organizers get phone calls, emails, letters, negative posts on forums. It's endless.

Any wonder they favor out of town teams as they come with zero issues. Pay, play and go home.

Also, this has in no way been messed up by the organizers. It's the parents that have created these local issues. They do so much for us, whether it be Minnesota Made or Showcase, and all we do is fuss and screw it up. Look in the mirror people.

Road Rage · Post by **Road Rage** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:45 am

Seems to me what they are trying to do is bully a bunch of kids and their families, not fill tournaments with good teams. The Alliance is just a bunch of overblown egomaniacs who are sore over kids that left to play on teams that just might suit their families lifestyles better. Some of these kids are talented enough to play other sports and still be great hockey players. They don't all need to drink the kool-aid to be good.

What the Alliance does is punish these kids and their friends and families. The teams that declined to join now must travel outside the metro area to get quality competition -- leaving grandparents, aunts, uncles, and other family members (often times a one of the parents) unable to share in the excitement of watching their child/grandchild play some really competitive hockey. The kids themselves are proud of what they do, but they are now left rely on someone telling the rest of the family and/or their friends cool that play was, or how tough the game was, or just how much fun they had -- because family members and friends couldn't make the trip to anywhere-but-Alliance-land to watch them play. Nice work grownups. These kids don't even get to play against their friends anymore because you are sore losers. Way to do what's best for the kids. And this is different than that zero-tolerance bullying stuff you teach in schools how?

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:59 am

Road Rage wrote:Seems to me what they are trying to do is bully a bunch of kids and their families, not fill tournaments with good teams. The Alliance is just a bunch of overblown egomaniacs who are sore over kids that left to play on teams that just might suit their families lifestyles better. Some of these kids are talented enough to play other sports and still be great hockey players. They don't all need to drink the kool-aid to be good.

What the Alliance does is punish these kids and their friends and families. The teams that declined to join now must travel outside the metro area to get quality competition -- leaving grandparents, aunts, uncles, and other family members (often times a one of the parents) unable to share in the excitement of watching their child/grandchild play some really competitive hockey. The kids themselves are proud of what they do, but they are now left rely on someone telling the rest of the family and/or their friends cool that play was, or how tough the game was, or just how much fun they had -- because family members and friends couldn't make the trip to anywhere-but-Alliance-land to watch them play. Nice work grownups. These kids don't even get to play against their friends anymore because you are sore losers. Way to do what's best for the kids. And this is different than that zero-tolerance bullying stuff you teach in schools how?

A couple of points I disagree with you on...

If you don't think these tournaments are filled with good teams, than I'm not sure you know what the good teams are...look at the Stars and Stripe tournament field and tell me that's a weak draw of teams.

And the other point about metro teams having to travel to play quality competition is wrong also. The Warrior Cup (run by the Magicians) and the Caribou Coffee Classic (run by the Icemen) as well as other tournaments like the International Cup ALL offer quality competition to the teams that don't want to travel.

There are many, many options available for all teams.....

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:38 am

Agree to an extent with RR: the Meltdown is a little questionable. Who'll win the I-90 Buddies vs. the Northern Pals game? How will Easton fare in all of this?

Agree to an extent with Muck: if they convinced the LA Jr Kings to bring a couple teams, then they aren't doing everything wrong. However, do they want to travel 2,000 miles to play the Synergy? In addition, there are a busload of local tourneys in which kids can play.

It's just the first year for these tourneys. If they can bring in teams from CA, CO, MI, MO, IL and out east, then we'll all get to stop by to watch a lot of fun hockey.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:41 am

InigoMontoya wrote:Agree to an extent with RR: the Meltdown is a little questionable. Who'll win the I-90 Buddies vs. the Northern Pals game? How will Easton fare in all of this?

Agree to an extent with Muck: if they convinced the LA Jr Kings to bring a couple teams, then they aren't doing everything wrong. However, do they want to travel 2,000 miles to play the Synergy? In addition, there are a busload of local tourneys in which kids can play.

It's just the first year for these tourneys. If they can bring in teams from CA, CO, MI, MO, IL and out east, then we'll all get to stop by to watch a lot of fun hockey.

Depends on which Easton teams you are talking about...the 97 and 98 teams are pretty solid. You gotta remember that Easton and the Cyclones/Legacy are only into their 2nd summer. Give them a coupld of more years, and I think they'll be up there...maybe not at the level of the Blades or Machine, but close.

While the Meltdown line-up may not be as impressive as the Stars and Stripes, there ARE some pretty good teams coming in: Thunder Bay Elites, Junior Islanders, Madison Capitals, Milwaukee Jr. Admirals, Machine, Blades, etc...I think the Legacy/Cyclones may see some success at certain levels as well as the Synergy 97 or 98 teams.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:18 pm

It won't help the tournament much if Synergy 98 does well, but Synergy 96 gets blasted. The team from Canada that played in a laugher will tell the Canucks they know not to bother. Perhaps the Alliance should "Give them a couple of more years" before they play at that level.

ThePuckStopsHere · Post by **ThePuckStopsHere** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:23 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:It won't help the tournament much if Synergy 98 does well, but Synergy 96 gets blasted. The team from Canada that played in a laugher will tell the Canucks they know not to bother. Perhaps the Alliance should "Give them a couple of more years" before they play at that level.

This post makes no sense?? Maybe you should clarify the point you are trying to make? It appears you have a beef witht the Synergy teams.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:36 pm

Easy there. I don't have a beef with any summer program.

Many, including Muck, have mentioned that the Easton programs are new and building. The clarification would be that perhaps waiting a couple years until the kids are ready to compete in an ultra-competitive, Nike-Bauer-type-invitational tournament might be better for the tourney and for the kids. I'm probably wrong; Passolt's boys may crush Bernie's kids in two weeks.

I hope all of the programs do well. If there are 40 programs out there doing nice things, that means there are 800 kids with an off-season opportunity to improve. My contention is that the watering down of summer hockey is that there are not enough good coaches and managers, not that there are not enough 8 year olds that can be taught.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:48 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:Easy there. I don't have a beef with any summer program.

Many, including Muck, have mentioned that the Easton programs are new and building. The clarification would be that perhaps waiting a couple years until the kids are ready to compete in an ultra-competitive, Nike-Bauer-type-invitational tournament might be better for the tourney and for the kids. I'm probably wrong; Passolt's boys may crush Bernie's kids in two weeks.

I hope all of the programs do well. If there are 40 programs out there doing nice things, that means there are 800 kids with an off-season opportunity to improve. My contention is that the watering down of summer hockey is that there are not enough good coaches and managers, not that there are not enough 8 year olds that can be taught.

I have no problem with that...and that's one of my main issues with this "alliance". I think they need to be honest with themselves and make sure that every team (even their own) that enter to play at the invite level is actually capable of playing at that level.

That being said, most of the other teams entered into the Meltdown look to be solid.

And, BTW, Passolt's team doesn't have a prayer against Bernie's team.

imaloserbaby · Post by **imaloserbaby** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:49 pm

ThePuckStopsHere wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:It won't help the tournament much if Synergy 98 does well, but Synergy 96 gets blasted. The team from Canada that played in a laugher will tell the Canucks they know not to bother. Perhaps the Alliance should "Give them a couple of more years" before they play at that level.
This post makes no sense?? Maybe you should clarify the point you are trying to make? It appears you have a beef witht the Synergy teams.

98 Machine 9 - 1 over 98 Synergy in scrimmage. It was just a scrimmage so who knows if score is truly reflective of difference in teams. Machine was missing a top player too that would not have helped the gap in the score. 98 Machine is the best at that age group for Minnesota teams.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:52 pm

imaloserbaby wrote:
ThePuckStopsHere wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:It won't help the tournament much if Synergy 98 does well, but Synergy 96 gets blasted. The team from Canada that played in a laugher will tell the Canucks they know not to bother. Perhaps the Alliance should "Give them a couple of more years" before they play at that level.
This post makes no sense?? Maybe you should clarify the point you are trying to make? It appears you have a beef witht the Synergy teams.
98 Machine 9 - 1 over 98 Synergy in scrimmage. It was just a scrimmage so who knows if score is truly reflective of difference in teams. Machine was missing a top player too that would not have helped the gap in the score. 98 Machine is the best at that age group for Minnesota teams.

There's no doubt in my mind that the 98 Machine team is stronger than most, if not all, other 98 teams around here...but I'm always a little leary of putting too much stock into this early scrimmages, especially with all of the end of year tournaments (Elites, Selects, Super Series) going on. Many teams aren't at full strength, like you alluded to.

ThePuckStopsHere · Post by **ThePuckStopsHere** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:54 pm

InigoMontoya, thanks for your clarification of your thoughts.

imaloserbaby I dont agree with you on the 98 Machine being the best team in Minnesota at their age. Don't forget the Blades beat them last year and the Blades have made huge additions to the team this year.

imaloserbaby wrote:
ThePuckStopsHere wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:It won't help the tournament much if Synergy 98 does well, but Synergy 96 gets blasted. The team from Canada that played in a laugher will tell the Canucks they know not to bother. Perhaps the Alliance should "Give them a couple of more years" before they play at that level.
This post makes no sense?? Maybe you should clarify the point you are trying to make? It appears you have a beef witht the Synergy teams.
98 Machine 9 - 1 over 98 Synergy in scrimmage. It was just a scrimmage so who knows if score is truly reflective of difference in teams. Machine was missing a top player too that would not have helped the gap in the score. 98 Machine is the best at that age group for Minnesota teams.

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:06 pm

Kudos to Showcase for attracting top out of state teams, but if those teams don't feel this tournament is competitive word will spread and they won't be back next year. Depends on how they represented the talent level. I think there are some good points here on just putting Easton and MM teams in Invite tourneys if they are not up to the caliber of the competition. I think it will do them more harm then good in the long run, not only for the kids and their development but the reputation of these so called AAA clubs. Most hockey people know that Showcase has always really only been AA hockey all these years and I think the same can be said for the Easton teams. Once this plays out, we can evaluate it all better.

Personally agree with all the posts on what a joke the Alliance is. Just a bunch of poor sports who lost kids to better teams or teams that valued multi sport athletes and now won't let the kids play in their yard! Grow up and do what's right for MN hockey not just your pocketbooks and your own kids. I look in my crystal ball and in 10 years I don't see an "Alliance", a Meltdown tourney and can't find a MM team anywhere??? Just playing with you all...don't panic young and eager parents willing to spend millions of dollars to ensure your kid gets a D-1 offer. Put your kids on "not-for-profit" real AAA teams if they have the talent and you will have clubs really looking out for the interests of your kids and their hockey futures. Time will be the true judge...

imaloserbaby · Post by **imaloserbaby** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:10 pm

ThePuckStopsHere wrote:InigoMontoya, thanks for your clarification of your thoughts.

imaloserbaby I dont agree with you on the 98 Machine being the best team in Minnesota at their age. Don't forget the Blades beat them last year and the Blades have made huge additions to the team this year.

imaloserbaby wrote:
ThePuckStopsHere wrote: This post makes no sense?? Maybe you should clarify the point you are trying to make? It appears you have a beef witht the Synergy teams.
98 Machine 9 - 1 over 98 Synergy in scrimmage. It was just a scrimmage so who knows if score is truly reflective of difference in teams. Machine was missing a top player too that would not have helped the gap in the score. 98 Machine is the best at that age group for Minnesota teams.

That i suppose is fair to think that way but I based my comment more on historical performance and consistent historical performance. the blades may be the best in '09 or you might see another team slide in there now that checking is involved. LSS have been tough in the past and duluth kids are always physical.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:16 pm

Doglover wrote:Kudos to Showcase for attracting top out of state teams, but if those teams don't feel this tournament is competitive word will spread and they won't be back next year. Depends on how they represented the talent level. I think there are some good points here on just putting Easton and MM teams in Invite tourneys if they are not up to the caliber of the competition. I think it will do them more harm then good in the long run, not only for the kids and their development but the reputation of these so called AAA clubs. Most hockey people know that Showcase has always really only been AA hockey all these years and I think the same can be said for the Easton teams. Once this plays out, we can evaluate it all better.

Personally agree with all the posts on what a joke the Alliance is. Just a bunch of poor sports who lost kids to better teams or teams that valued multi sport athletes and now won't let the kids play in their yard! Grow up and do what's right for MN hockey not just your pocketbooks and your own kids. I look in my crystal ball and in 10 years I don't see an "Alliance", a Meltdown tourney and can't find a MM team anywhere??? Just playing with you all...don't panic young and eager parents willing to spend millions of dollars to ensure your kid gets a D-1 offer. Put your kids on "not-for-profit" real AAA teams if they have the talent and you will have clubs really looking out for the interests of your kids and their hockey futures. Time will be the true judge...

I think that both the Meltdown and Stars and Stripes tournaments will be extremely competitive and fun to watch. Sure, there might be a team or two who gets squashed, but that is the case with most tournaments. The Meltdown has been around for quite a while and already has built a reputation as one of the top summer tournaments in the Midwest, and that will continue to be the case with or without Easton teams playing in it.

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:37 pm

I do agree with you MandG. The Meltdown has always served as a great warm-up in the spring for the top, select Canadian invitational tournaments and offers families the opportunity to watch the kids play good hockey close to home while also keeping costs affordable for our MN families.

My fear is that with this so called "Alliance" the quality will drop significantly and there will be a trickle down effect. Seems to be OK to the "Alliance" teams to lose to top out state teams, but they want to lock out the better local competition so they don't lose their perceived competitive edge in attracting MN kids to play for them. I am a huge fan of a free market society and think competition yields better quality coaching and teams and therefore benefits MN hockey overall. Once a business tries to "corner" a market and impose a monopoly, I believe history shows you're headed for trouble. If you truly offer the best product, you don't have to institute trade barriers. Buyer beware. Yeah Southwest Airlines!! Done with the Economics lesson.

buttend · Post by **buttend** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:02 pm

Doglover wrote: Put your kids on "not-for-profit" real AAA teams if they have the talent and you will have clubs really looking out for the interests of your kids and their hockey futures. Time will be the true judge...

Who are these " Not for Profit real AAA teams"?? If your implying the Blades you just " Dont put your kid on that team"