***Alliance teams***

[manchild]

The Subway tournament must be strong enough for at least the 97 Blades. They were unable to win the tournament last year.

[hiptzech]

Time to let it go.

Not that easy....You have been begging to let it go, but yet you have continued your rant...

Step up, or better yet, MAN UP...You just got called out...Grow a pair and confirm or correct the claims made by manchild. Quit hiding...I have had to sit here and read your posts, claims and complaints all the while speaking out of both sides of your mouth...

Set the record straight, then and only then will it be "let go". If you are scared say you are scared. If you are wrong or out of line set the record straight or face fact that nobody will take your comments on this "bored" seriously.

At this point you have been leshed at the curb, tied up to a street sign laying by your dog dish. Get some integrity, or change your screen name and try again.

Good Luck and enjoy wathcing your kid play whatever sport they are in at the time...Life is too short and your son is too young for you to piss all over his opportunty...

[muckandgrind]

Here is the straight story...

First of all if you look at who is driving the two threads about the Alliance it is Judge and Jury. Judge and Jury is a guy named Pat Ne____. I won't finish his last name because I don't want to name names. And it is not his buddy freinds kid it his own, as we all have already figured out. That why he is so bent about this issue. He is not getting his way.

The 99 Blades want to get into the Stars and Stripes Tournament after the tournament was full with 12 teams. They were told that the only way to get them into the tournament was if they could find another team from outside the state to also play in the tournament. This would give the tournament 14 teams. It is very diificult the have a 13 team tournament.

The Blades came back with the Jr. Badgers which is also call the MN/WIS. They were told by Mn Made that that would not work because the team is made up of a number of Minnesota players and the team needed to be a team of players from out side of Minnesota. Then Jr. Badgers then came back and said the they would not carry any Minnesota players for that tournament and would that work.

Minnesota Made Hockey wanted to help out the 99 Blades teams coach Gerry Anderson because Bernie and Gerry have a pretty good relationship even though compete against each other. The 99 Blades and the Machine teams have a number of games and a cook out planned for later this summer. So wanting to help the 99 Blades team get into the tournament they agreed that it would work for the Jr. Badgers to play because without any Minnesota Players it would be a true out state team.

So first of all, Minnesota Made did not invite the Jr. Badgers team they ask to play in the tournament. Second, why wouldn't Judge and Jury be upset with his own team for selling him out so they could get into the tournament? Third, it is an invitational tournament so they can take any teams they choose.

In the end at the 99 level they have 14 teams and 5 of them are from Minnesota. The feeling is that Minnesota is well represented. There are 5 are Canada and the rest are from outstate. It should be a good tournament.

As for Judge and Jury his issue should really be with his team where coaches left his son off of the roster because they wanted into the tournament or is it that he may already be burning a bridge at his new team? May be it is not worth all the trouble.

Thanks for the scoop. Now this makes total sense. I don't have any issue whatsoever with how this was handled. It's McBain's tournament and he wanted more out of state teams represented and the Wisconsin Badgers are not really "out of state" if they have a roster full of Minnesota kids. If he didn't stick to his guns on this rule, any team made up of Minnesota kids could call themselves something like the "Iowa Pig Farmers" and declare themselves as an "out of state" team.

Judge and Jury - you should be more angry with the WI Badgers for throwing your kid under the bus just so they can play in this tournament. There are PLENTY of other tournaments they could register for instead.

[Judgeandjury]

Muck- If you need to know I addressed this with Min/Wis. I was assured that they turned down the offer to play in this tourney and handed it off to another coach within the program. He is creating a pick up team using Min/Wis jerseys borrowed on short notice. The kids all have to pay extra if they want to play. Just so we're on the same page this Min/Wis team is not their regular team. The coach is finding players from all over the upper midwest to play. I was told because I live in Minnesota Metro area my son cannot play. This is why I'm concerned with the direction of youth hockey.
What is the logical reason why metro area kids cannot play in this tourney?
The kicker: The Blades are a non-alliance team with non-alliance metro area players on their team. I was told that this is ok because the Blades have an open invite to play in alliance tourneys. What a joke!
To say my son was thrown under the bus by Min/Wis is totally wrong and not the truth.

hiptzech- It's really not that hard. My son lives in the metro area and was planning to play in the Stars and Stripes tourney with some kids from his new program on a made up team. Do you think it's acceptable for some one to exclude players from their tourney by saying they cannot play because they live in the metro area? What kind of cowardly response is that? No doubt there's a reason for it but it will be a weak one at that.
I have a feeling it has everything to do with kids leaving an alliance program to skate with another non-alliance program. He doesn't want parents to see that kids can change teams and still be competitive and more importantly have fun.

hip- Why do you think metro area kids are not allowed to play in this tourney? Does it really matter if half the kids are from Minnesota? I can promise that not one team in the tournament would even question it or care.

[Judgeandjury]

Here is the straight story...

First of all if you look at who is driving the two threads about the Alliance it is Judge and Jury. Judge and Jury is a guy named Pat Ne____. I won't finish his last name because I don't want to name names. And it is not his buddy freinds kid it his own, as we all have already figured out. That why he is so bent about this issue. He is not getting his way.

The 99 Blades want to get into the Stars and Stripes Tournament after the tournament was full with 12 teams. They were told that the only way to get them into the tournament was if they could find another team from outside the state to also play in the tournament. This would give the tournament 14 teams. It is very diificult the have a 13 team tournament.

The Blades came back with the Jr. Badgers which is also call the MN/WIS. They were told by Mn Made that that would not work because the team is made up of a number of Minnesota players and the team needed to be a team of players from out side of Minnesota. Then Jr. Badgers then came back and said the they would not carry any Minnesota players for that tournament and would that work.

Minnesota Made Hockey wanted to help out the 99 Blades teams coach Gerry Anderson because Bernie and Gerry have a pretty good relationship even though compete against each other. The 99 Blades and the Machine teams have a number of games and a cook out planned for later this summer. So wanting to help the 99 Blades team get into the tournament they agreed that it would work for the Jr. Badgers to play because without any Minnesota Players it would be a true out state team.

So first of all, Minnesota Made did not invite the Jr. Badgers team they ask to play in the tournament. Second, why wouldn't Judge and Jury be upset with his own team for selling him out so they could get into the tournament? Third, it is an invitational tournament so they can take any teams they choose.

In the end at the 99 level they have 14 teams and 5 of them are from Minnesota. The feeling is that Minnesota is well represented. There are 5 are Canada and the rest are from outstate. It should be a good tournament.

As for Judge and Jury his issue should really be with his team where coaches left his son off of the roster because they wanted into the tournament or is it that he may already be burning a bridge at his new team? May be it is not worth all the trouble.

Thanks for the scoop. Now this makes total sense. I don't have any issue whatsoever with how this was handled. It's McBain's tournament and he wanted more out of state teams represented and the Wisconsin Badgers are not really "out of state" if they have a roster full of Minnesota kids. If he didn't stick to his guns on this rule, any team made up of Minnesota kids could call themselves something like the "Iowa Pig Farmers" and declare themselves as an "out of state" team.

Judge and Jury - you should be more angry with the WI Badgers for throwing your kid under the bus just so they can play in this tournament. There are PLENTY of other tournaments they could register for instead.

Muck- That's my point. The Min/Wis team will be made up of kids from all over the upper midwest. It is NOT the regular Min/Wis team. I made sure of that.

The point I'm trying to make is that two programs are trying to make all the rules and dictate who and who cannot play in tourneys. If these alliance supporters want the best teams to play in their tourneys then let all the best teams play alliance or not. You know as well as I do it doesn't matter where the kids live.
There is a reason why some metro area kids cannot play and it has nothing to do with me being angry at any program. I told you I think MM does a great job with the Choice league and I have nothing bad to say with the exception of excluding kids from playing in this tourney. There's no logical reason and it makes no sense.

I'm not sure who Manchild is but I can tell you he didn't know any of the facts.

This is a done deal. My son will be playing on another team in another non-alliance tourney.

Go Alliance!

[muckandgrind]

Muck- If you need to know I addressed this with Min/Wis. I was assured that they turned down the offer to play in this tourney and handed it off to another coach within the program. He is creating a pick up team using Min/Wis jerseys borrowed on short notice. The kids all have to pay extra if they want to play. Just so we're on the same page this Min/Wis team is not their regular team. The coach is finding players from all over the upper midwest to play. I was told because I live in Minnesota Metro area my son cannot play. This is why I'm concerned with the direction of youth hockey.
What is the logical reason why metro area kids cannot play in this tourney?
The kicker: The Blades are a non-alliance team with non-alliance metro area players on their team. I was told that this is ok because the Blades have an open invite to play in alliance tourneys. What a joke!
To say my son was thrown under the bus by Min/Wis is totally wrong and not the truth.

hiptzech- It's really not that hard. My son lives in the metro area and was planning to play in the Stars and Stripes tourney with some kids from his new program on a made up team. Do you think it's acceptable for some one to exclude players from their tourney by saying they cannot play because they live in the metro area? What kind of cowardly response is that? No doubt there's a reason for it but it will be a weak one at that.
I have a feeling it has everything to do with kids leaving an alliance program to skate with another non-alliance program. He doesn't want parents to see that kids can change teams and still be competitive and more importantly have fun.

hip- Why do you think metro area kids are not allowed to play in this tourney? Does it really matter if half the kids are from Minnesota? I can promise that not one team in the tournament would even question it or care.

The logical reason is that he and TH run these tournaments and they are allowed to run them as they please. That means they get to decide which teams play and which teams don't. There doesn't need to be any other reason. They don't have to answer to anyone but themselves. If you don't like it, register for another tournament...as it appears you are doing.

There are plenty of options out there for young hockey players in the summer, I don't get all the crowing over this.

[ironrangehockey55]

im not sure why anyone would believe you judge and jury. you lied about it being your buddies kid that told you this and you lied about the team for your kid.

it wasnt until someone said who you were that you came out and changed your story. you seem to be well known enough that people identify you pretty easy from minesota made and eslewhere.

how does your new team feel about you being on the team after you made such a ruckus about this.

now everyone will be looking at the players on the MN/WIS team at the tournament to see where the kids are from. i dont believe that mn/wis will like that ... its negative attention this has broght them.

you are complaining more about what your team did. if mn/wis didnt like it they could have told the tournament no. they were ok with it so why werent you. instead it has caused problems.

do you play association hockey to. how do you do at association hockey...is it problems there to. just enjoy the game and relax

[Judgeandjury]

Muck- If you need to know I addressed this with Min/Wis. I was assured that they turned down the offer to play in this tourney and handed it off to another coach within the program. He is creating a pick up team using Min/Wis jerseys borrowed on short notice. The kids all have to pay extra if they want to play. Just so we're on the same page this Min/Wis team is not their regular team. The coach is finding players from all over the upper midwest to play. I was told because I live in Minnesota Metro area my son cannot play. This is why I'm concerned with the direction of youth hockey.
What is the logical reason why metro area kids cannot play in this tourney?
The kicker: The Blades are a non-alliance team with non-alliance metro area players on their team. I was told that this is ok because the Blades have an open invite to play in alliance tourneys. What a joke!
To say my son was thrown under the bus by Min/Wis is totally wrong and not the truth.

hiptzech- It's really not that hard. My son lives in the metro area and was planning to play in the Stars and Stripes tourney with some kids from his new program on a made up team. Do you think it's acceptable for some one to exclude players from their tourney by saying they cannot play because they live in the metro area? What kind of cowardly response is that? No doubt there's a reason for it but it will be a weak one at that.
I have a feeling it has everything to do with kids leaving an alliance program to skate with another non-alliance program. He doesn't want parents to see that kids can change teams and still be competitive and more importantly have fun.

hip- Why do you think metro area kids are not allowed to play in this tourney? Does it really matter if half the kids are from Minnesota? I can promise that not one team in the tournament would even question it or care.

The logical reason is that he and TH run these tournaments and they are allowed to run them as they please. That means they get to decide which teams play and which teams don't. There doesn't need to be any other reason. They don't have to answer to anyone but themselves. If you don't like it, register for another tournament...as it appears you are doing.

There are plenty of options out there for young hockey players in the summer, I don't get all the crowing over this.

Muck- You have every right to your opinion and I have every right to my opinion. I guess I'm the only one concerned with grown men dictating where 9-10 year old kids can play. Anyways, I thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion.

[hiptzech]

J&J,

Here is my issue...I sit back and read so many posts about people trashing other people and businesses...You laid out you concern/complaint with your very first post on this thread...You set it up, got the thread going, then you turn the thread into a bunch of trash, ultimatley getting to the root of the matter. However, along the way you took it to the sewer and started stating mis-truths....You ultimately trashed the thread and your integrity, that is unfortunate as it takes the focus off your point and puts people in a place of viewing you as a whinner....That is the simple fact and my obsveration.

You keep asking this board, why or how can the organizers of these tourney do what they do....People are left with making their points but you don't want to hear them. If you don't want to hear the answer don't ask the question...

I would rather see your next post explaining how you handled the situation with your kid...It is about the kid, isn't it? Let us all learn from you by telling the story of the disapointment that you and your kid faced and how you handled it with him....

Furthermore, if you think you are going to step into the elite levels of youth sports and expect sunshine you are not prepared to do so...You have to expect crap like this going on whether you are in an association, club or any other program. You have to be ready to experience the short bench, you have to be ready to experience injustice and under handed behavior. Youth sports are like any other group of people in our society...It wasn't your choice nor your kids choice to be going down this path, it is your choice of how you handle it....It appears to me that you are making poor choices on how to handle it....

Let me answer your question....Why or How can they do this. Because they can...If you don't like it get out of line, there are 20 more people standing behing you to cut the check....It is not fair, but it is what you are dealing with at this moment....

You have said, let it die. It was about to die until the truth came out. I do commend you for at the very least coming on the board and setting the record straight on the true story. Now impress the rest of us and finish the task..You will not win this battle on this board. Change direction and try to regain integrity...

Enjoy the game and look at the smile on your kids face when he is playing the game...

[muckandgrind]

Muck- If you need to know I addressed this with Min/Wis. I was assured that they turned down the offer to play in this tourney and handed it off to another coach within the program. He is creating a pick up team using Min/Wis jerseys borrowed on short notice. The kids all have to pay extra if they want to play. Just so we're on the same page this Min/Wis team is not their regular team. The coach is finding players from all over the upper midwest to play. I was told because I live in Minnesota Metro area my son cannot play. This is why I'm concerned with the direction of youth hockey.
What is the logical reason why metro area kids cannot play in this tourney?
The kicker: The Blades are a non-alliance team with non-alliance metro area players on their team. I was told that this is ok because the Blades have an open invite to play in alliance tourneys. What a joke!
To say my son was thrown under the bus by Min/Wis is totally wrong and not the truth.

hiptzech- It's really not that hard. My son lives in the metro area and was planning to play in the Stars and Stripes tourney with some kids from his new program on a made up team. Do you think it's acceptable for some one to exclude players from their tourney by saying they cannot play because they live in the metro area? What kind of cowardly response is that? No doubt there's a reason for it but it will be a weak one at that.
I have a feeling it has everything to do with kids leaving an alliance program to skate with another non-alliance program. He doesn't want parents to see that kids can change teams and still be competitive and more importantly have fun.

hip- Why do you think metro area kids are not allowed to play in this tourney? Does it really matter if half the kids are from Minnesota? I can promise that not one team in the tournament would even question it or care.

The logical reason is that he and TH run these tournaments and they are allowed to run them as they please. That means they get to decide which teams play and which teams don't. There doesn't need to be any other reason. They don't have to answer to anyone but themselves. If you don't like it, register for another tournament...as it appears you are doing.

There are plenty of options out there for young hockey players in the summer, I don't get all the crowing over this.

Muck- You have every right to your opinion and I have every right to my opinion. I guess I'm the only one concerned with grown men dictating where 9-10 year old kids can play. Anyways, I thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion.

Isn't that what the "grown men" at Minnesota Hockey do? Don't they dictate where 9-10 year olds can (or can't) play based on where they live? How is this any different than what McBain and the so-called "Alliance" is doing?

[puckfan]

Isn't that what the "grown men" at Minnesota Hockey do? Don't they dictate where 9-10 year olds can (or can't) play based on where they live? How is this any different than what McBain and the so-called "Alliance" is doing?

Muck, not 100% sure but MN Hockey sets rules for ALL that play hockey in MN.

Do you know of somebody that moved from say Wayzata to Rosemount and then was told when his Peewee B team is can play in the Wayzata Classic but "Timmy " can't (all the characters and locations are made up and do not reflect actual events)

[muckandgrind]

Isn't that what the "grown men" at Minnesota Hockey do? Don't they dictate where 9-10 year olds can (or can't) play based on where they live? How is this any different than what McBain and the so-called "Alliance" is doing?

Muck, not 100% sure but MN Hockey sets rules for ALL that play hockey in MN.

Do you know of somebody that moved from say Wayzata to Rosemount and then was told when his Peewee B team is can play in the Wayzata Classic but "Timmy " can't (all the characters and locations are made up and do not reflect actual events)

My point is that the "grown men" in charge set the rules, and we have to live by them. If McBain wants to pick and choose which metro teams can play in his tournament, than he has every right to do so. If Minnesota Hockey wants to set the rules where all kids must play, they have the right to do so. If you want to challenge them, start up your own tournament (i.e. The Warrior Cup and Caribou Classic) or league (Choice Mites and Squirts).

The mistake the Min/Wis team made was posting the roster and where their kids were from on their website. I'm sure what McBain is guarding against is setting a precedent whereby a team formed with metro area players call themselves a Wisconsin team, which would be a loop-hole or end-run around his rule.

[MGHockey12]

Maybe the alliance should call themselves AAAA or AAA+ hockey.


Sorry, but AAA hockey in MN is now defined as:

1) non association managed, non MN hockey controlled OFF-SEASON hockey
no coaching certification required
no background checks needed if independent

2) non showcase spring/fall league game hockey

3) ad hoc teams that desire practice + games vs just games

4) seek out an schedule tournaments and games vs like opponents

guess really wrong and you win by a 50 -2 goal margin or lose by 2 - 50 goal margin over the 4 game tournament


That said I have nothing against the iceman, machine or blades. If they want to only play each with other or in invite only tournaments great ... better for everyone on both sides of the fence.

Now what if they schedule and play a non-alliance team and lose what happens

Clarification - The Icemen are not part of the Alliance and never were. They were denied participation in the Alliance tournaments. The Blades are not part of the Alliance but are allowed to participate in Alliance tournaments.

Clarification on the clarification - The Icemen principles were offered "participation in the Alliance" (read as...Pay Showcase a per player fee...get to play in all the local tournaments, get flashy new uniforms from the TH uniform factory, and get time at the HB training center and FHIT)...they chose not to join, nor were they interested in selling out to Tim H. I know this is 100% true as I was at the meeting. When the Icemen werent interested in paying a per-player fee to Showcase (like all the other Alliance teams except MM) Tim H. moved to the next group, the Cyclones...the rest is history.

just another note...congrats to the 98's

[Doglover]

I hope I'm not the only one that finds these additional revelations or clarifications about TH and MM very disturbing. To charge a per player fee to allow a team to participate in their metro tournaments/Alliance is wrong in my opinion.

I honestly hope this is all wrong and someone from Showcase or MM will come on here and correct us on the points that are wrong. My kids enjoyed Showcase Hockey for many years and it gave all kids a place to play in the off season - not just the highly talented players. I would love it if you could tell us that you didn't try to force teams to pay additional fees to be a part of the Alliance in order to play in local tournaments. I don't think anyone regulates AAA club hockey but maybe MN Hockey should look into what's going on?

[penaltyshot]

IMO ice time is important, so is coaching, so is a focus on skill development, so is athletic ability. If we are thinking our kids will be D1 hockey players without STRONG athletic ability that can be seen in all sports then 145 hours of ice time at the squirt level will not get them there.

The experience of playing at the youth association over the winter is OUR only way to go. Others do not see it like that and push for hours over community, friends, sleep overs and bonds that spill into other sports and school activities/dances.

I will take my Squirt hours of 85 over 145, besides associations often list hours differently. In many associations they count a shared hour as 1/2, while others count that as 1 hour, like MM. The hours are MUCH closer than you think plus the district games and tournaments form memories and rivalries. Yes, alliances are about the money. Associations are about community.

We choose to play hockey in the winter with our community and summer hockey smoetimes with kids from other communities (AAA/MM) that help rivalries in the winter.

[MGHockey12]

I hope I'm not the only one that finds these additional revelations or clarifications about TH and MM very disturbing. To charge a per player fee to allow a team to participate in their metro tournaments/Alliance is wrong in my opinion.

I honestly hope this is all wrong and someone from Showcase or MM will come on here and correct us on the points that are wrong. My kids enjoyed Showcase Hockey for many years and it gave all kids a place to play in the off season - not just the highly talented players. I would love it if you could tell us that you didn't try to force teams to pay additional fees to be a part of the Alliance in order to play in local tournaments. I don't think anyone regulates AAA club hockey but maybe MN Hockey should look into what's going on?

It is 100% true to the letter...no corrections to be made ~ PM me I will forward the email from TH... MM is not the culprit though.. they just wanted to ensure local tournaments for their players. With all the new tournaments popping up like the Warrior and Caribou...(Thanks to "Alliance" 88 total Teams in and Paid) I am sure they will have more options next year. I do admire Bernie/MM for sticking to his commitment even when "The Alliance" is going horribly wrong.

“If you give people tools, [and they use] their natural ability and their curiosity, they will develop things in ways that will surprise you very much beyond what you might have expected.” ...Bill Gates

[muckandgrind]

Maybe the alliance should call themselves AAAA or AAA+ hockey.


Sorry, but AAA hockey in MN is now defined as:

1) non association managed, non MN hockey controlled OFF-SEASON hockey
no coaching certification required
no background checks needed if independent

2) non showcase spring/fall league game hockey

3) ad hoc teams that desire practice + games vs just games

4) seek out an schedule tournaments and games vs like opponents

guess really wrong and you win by a 50 -2 goal margin or lose by 2 - 50 goal margin over the 4 game tournament


That said I have nothing against the iceman, machine or blades. If they want to only play each with other or in invite only tournaments great ... better for everyone on both sides of the fence.

Now what if they schedule and play a non-alliance team and lose what happens

Clarification - The Icemen are not part of the Alliance and never were. They were denied participation in the Alliance tournaments. The Blades are not part of the Alliance but are allowed to participate in Alliance tournaments.

Clarification on the clarification - The Icemen principles were offered "participation in the Alliance" (read as...Pay Showcase a per player fee...get to play in all the local tournaments, get flashy new uniforms from the TH uniform factory, and get time at the HB training center and FHIT)...they chose not to join, nor were they interested in selling out to Tim H. I know this is 100% true as I was at the meeting. When the Icemen werent interested in paying a per-player fee to Showcase (like all the other Alliance teams except MM) Tim H. moved to the next group, the Cyclones...the rest is history.

just another note...congrats to the 98's

The 95 Icemen ARE participating in the Meltdown Invite, however.

[puckfan]

Since they are not part of the Alliance, did they get the call..."hey we need a team to fill out the tournament, can you play?"

TH needs that last bit of $$$$$$

[Road Rage]

"just another note...congrats to the 98's"

The 98's for what team and what are the congrats for? Maybe just congrats for being born in '98?

[InigoMontoya]

Is Team Velocity related to the Icemen?

[HITUHARD]

How did the game go with the 98 Blades & the Icemen?? :? I think it was Monday night.

[gotothenet17]

How did the game go with the 98 Blades & the Icemen?? I think it was Monday night.

4 to 0 icemen over blades

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

[quote="HITUHARD"]How did the game go with the 98 Blades & the Icemen?? I think it was Monday night.[/quote]

Come on be honest, you already knew.

[HITUHARD]

Sorry, I would not have asked if I had the answer. Thanks

[MrBoDangles]

Sorry, I would not have asked if I had the answer. Thanks