St. Cloud Tech Coach Fired

western · Post by **western** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:30 pm

Another incident of coaches having to please parents has just ocurred in St. Cloud, where Tech fired its head coach because some whiny parents complained to the AD their kid wasn't playing or had to play some JV.

Watch your backs, coaches. This is becoming an epedemic in high school hockey. The AD earlier in the year suspended this coach without pay but was overruled by the district super later in the day because they didn't have grounds to do such an idiotic thing.

Now the season is over they can choose not to renew his contract. The team had a good year, tying Roseau and Moorhead during the regular season and losing to Roseau in OT in the playoffs. Good luck finding anyone decent who devotes extra time and energy.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:35 pm

western wrote:Another incident of coaches having to please parents has just ocurred in St. Cloud, where Tech fired its head coach because some whiny parents complained to the AD their kid wasn't playing or had to play some JV.

Watch your backs, coaches. This is becoming an epedemic in high school hockey. The AD earlier in the year suspended this coach without pay but was overruled by the district super later in the day because they didn't have grounds to do such an idiotic thing.

Now the season is over they can choose not to renew his contract. The team had a good year, tying Roseau and Moorhead during the regular season and losing to Roseau in OT in the playoffs. Good luck finding anyone decent who devotes extra time and energy.

Thats too bad. I thought he was out harms way after the first incident came and went.

Jbone · Post by **Jbone** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:36 am

Gosh that is terrible. It truly is an epidemic in high school hockey. Where do parents get the audacity to even say anything to anybody about playing time. I would feel so embarassed for myself and my kid. I wish parents who are in their kid's athletic business would realize that the child will not be going pro in their sport. Because if he/she can't be in the starting lineup every night, than they aren't that good.

western · Post by **western** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:31 am

It is terrible, especially because there was no cause. The school principal several times asked the coach if he wanted it portrayed as a resignation, which tells me they know this is not right and they are trying to gloss it over.

Sure, they have gotten complaints. What school doesn't get some about every coach? But this is beyond the pale. It's really too bad because the school has a great reputation, excellent teachers, good sports teams and a bunch of idiots in position of administration.

keepmeoutofit · Post by **keepmeoutofit** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:53 pm

I'd like to see the complaints against coaches made public somewhere. Both in high school and the associations.
if the actions of these parents was held up to public scrutiny, it would be cut way down.
if a coach isnt doing his job we should all know about it. and if a parent is taking liberties we should know that as well.

Daulton911 · Post by **Daulton911** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:17 pm

It is very Sad. I myslef have coached for 20 years. finally hung it up a couple years ago. The parents are absolutly NUTS!! the current high school program my kids are in, has some real A-hole parents. I have seen this change our coaches at the high school level for fear of there job. They know which parents will complain, whine, scream, cause scenes, etc so the coaches are trying to cator to them a bit more instead they should really be cutting the team "Cancer's" Sorry to say - I do not see a true end of it in sight.

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:34 pm

keepmeoutofit wrote:I'd like to see the complaints against coaches made public somewhere. Both in high school and the associations.
if the actions of these parents was held up to public scrutiny, it would be cut way down.
if a coach isnt doing his job we should all know about it. and if a parent is taking liberties we should know that as well.

I agree. If you are going to try to force a public figure out of his job, please have the guts to tell the community why.

To the administration: This is not accountability. Rather, it's the complete opposite of it.

theblandyman · Post by **theblandyman** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:17 pm

First off, I must say that I feel this firing is not warranted. However, it was about this time last year that he should have lost his job for the whole St. Cloud Tech Youth Hockey Assoc. proposal. He was skating on thin ice since then and any old reason would get him the boot.

Also, I will say that I think this is a good thing for the Tech program. Hommerding had loads of talent run through the program yet didn't accomplish anything. Some fresh blood and new energy will be good for the program, IMO. This has to be a very desirable coaching position as the short-term future of Tech hockey looks very bright.

All that said, it's an ugly day for HS sports when parents can get a coach ousted. It's not the first time it's happened in St. Cloud and its' surrounding area. I think this is the third or fourth time it's happened in hockey this decade alone.

It's an ugly situation, but I feel it will be best for the Tech program in the long run.

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:24 pm

I think high school coaching will change significantly in the next 5-10 years.

One of the best coaches my son has had said his youth coach 30 years ago didn't even skate. Now we have ex-NHLers coaching their 8 year old and his friends on a Squirt team. Summer AAA hockey has coaches that are amazing in their preparation for practices and run very high energy practices that help kids develop much more rapidly. Go watch one of these young teams that are talked about on this forum. They're truly amazing. I had a friend say my sons PeeWee team could have beat his Bantam team from 30 years ago no problem. If you're talking about good players the coaching they've had at their youth association and AAA team is D1 and NHL quality. No kidding.

Now flash forward to this AAA player entering high school where the coach is a science teacher and has a family of his own. He's coached high school hockey for the last 10-15 years. In the evening he grades papers and attends his own children's gymnastics and dance class. The AAA coach is online planning his next uber development practice for his team of 8 year olds which includes his son.

Here's what I see as a broad generalization. A bunch of these Squirt A coaches are significantly better coaches than a lot of the high school ones. First, they're dads so they're extremely passionate about what they do and their preparation. They run better practices and demand total attention and dedication.

So, here's the problem. Parent of a successful youth player that has spent 10s of thousands of dollars on developing his Bantam A player that plays for a top association and AAA team in the summer. He attends a high school practice and what? It's not even close to the quality of practice his son has been used to. Not near the development occurring. It's a shocker, they fuss, how can this be? Teacher/parent/coach that's getting paid all of $5000 on top of a teachers salary thinks to himself, that's the thanks I get? I teach, I'm a parent, I coach and barely get paid, and these people want Jacque Lemaire on the ice with their kids at 3:30 every day.

Well, the fact of the matter is they do want an NHL quality coach on the ice with their high school player because he's had one since he was frickin 8 years old.

High school coaches beware. I want your self improvement plan on my desk by 8am on Monday.

keepmeoutofit · Post by **keepmeoutofit** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:50 pm

I think many highly competitive, hughly skilled coach with a strong hockey pedigree would have a stroke dealing with the parents of many of the players and their famillys on an average high school team.

Again if everything these parents did was published there would be less of it. At some point the kids would be embarassed. At least I hope they would be.

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:51 am

observer wrote:I think high school coaching will change significantly in the next 5-10 years.

One of the best coaches my son has had said his youth coach 30 years ago didn't even skate. Now we have ex-NHLers coaching their 8 year old and his friends on a Squirt team. Summer AAA hockey has coaches that are amazing in their preparation for practices and run very high energy practices that help kids develop much more rapidly. Go watch one of these young teams that are talked about on this forum. They're truly amazing. I had a friend say my sons PeeWee team could have beat his Bantam team from 30 years ago no problem. If you're talking about good players the coaching they've had at their youth association and AAA team is D1 and NHL quality. No kidding.

Now flash forward to this AAA player entering high school where the coach is a science teacher and has a family of his own. He's coached high school hockey for the last 10-15 years. In the evening he grades papers and attends his own children's gymnastics and dance class. The AAA coach is online planning his next uber development practice for his team of 8 year olds which includes his son.

Here's what I see as a broad generalization. A bunch of these Squirt A coaches are significantly better coaches than a lot of the high school ones. First, they're dads so they're extremely passionate about what they do and their preparation. They run better practices and demand total attention and dedication.

So, here's the problem. Parent of a successful youth player that has spent 10s of thousands of dollars on developing his Bantam A player that plays for a top association and AAA team in the summer. He attends a high school practice and what? It's not even close to the quality of practice his son has been used to. Not near the development occurring. It's a shocker, they fuss, how can this be? Teacher/parent/coach that's getting paid all of $5000 on top of a teachers salary thinks to himself, that's the thanks I get? I teach, I'm a parent, I coach and barely get paid, and these people want Jacque Lemaire on the ice with their kids at 3:30 every day.

Well, the fact of the matter is they do want an NHL quality coach on the ice with their high school player because he's had one since he was frickin 8 years old.

High school coaches beware. I want your self improvement plan on my desk by 8am on Monday.

observer...I see your point

But I think the real danger is not that high school coaches are teachers first and may not be as prepared as their squirt AAA counterparts. I think the real sad part of many of these situations is that parents have a false sense of their kids talent and a sense of entitlement. They feel if their kid doesn't play, it's the coach's fault and he's got to go.

western · Post by **western** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:56 am

In not renewing the coach's contract, they gave him some excuse about a negative image of the school. I guess any time someone complains about coaching, it is a black mark against the school's image.

The administration is opening a Pandora's Box in that it is setting a precedent that if parent complain enough -- even a small band of them -- it can cost a coach his job. That is one dangerous precedent to set. Now everyone will start bitching to the AD if their kid doesn't see ice time.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:38 am

western wrote:In not renewing the coach's contract, they gave him some excuse about a negative image of the school. I guess any time someone complains about coaching, it is a black mark against the school's image.

The administration is opening a Pandora's Box in that it is setting a precedent that if parent complain enough -- even a small band of them -- it can cost a coach his job. That is one dangerous precedent to set. Now everyone will start bitching to the AD if their kid doesn't see ice time.

Isn't it alot more then a couple parents complaining about ice time? You are much closer to the program then I, but from what I heard it had more to do with a pattern of behavior from the coaching staff that went back several years.

BlueGoose5 · Post by **BlueGoose5** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:46 am

Time for a reality check here. The incident in question with the parents this year is not what got the Coach dismissed nor did it warrant his dismissal. Western is neglecting a key point.

What got the Coach in hot water is that this incident occurred on the heels of an unfortunate incident last year when the Coach got drawn into a tiny group of renegade Tech parents who tried to divide and conquer the local youth hockey association in the hope of starting their own association. They (the parents, not the Coach) even had the audacity to name themselves officers of this proposed association. Well, this effort had absolutely zilch public support and greatly offended many in the local hockey association, and you can sure bet that the Tech AD and administration got an earful on what was happening. It certainly didn't help matters that the School District was trying to pass another levy at that time. So, yea, the school became concerned about its reputation.

Bottom line, the Coach has two groups of parents to thank for his dismissal.

western · Post by **western** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:06 am

BlueGoose may be right. That might be the driving factor behind the decision. But if so, that needs to be stated and identified. You don't fire someone in any job and then use some vague reasoning about complaints going back 10 years about player cuts and playing time and the image of the school.

The southside association idea may well have been a key factor, but then why beat around the bush and make it seem that parent complaints have even the slightest impact? Again, idiotic, boneheaded and totally incompetent way to deal with an issue.

Finally, he gave 12 years of time and dedication. Just to dump someone off on the roadside like that is not only clueless but classless.

western · Post by **western** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:53 am

Oh and by the way, BlueGoose, it wasn't AN incident with parents as in singular, it was incidents with parents. There was a whole lot of complaining and whining about kids not playing PP, PK, having to play JV not playing varsity, not seeing enough ice time. This started at the beginning of the year and went to the end.

RL, yes they cited a pattern. They even went back to him cutting a kid 10 years ago or so and the Holy Hell his parents raised back then. They brought up every complaint they ever received in order to justify it.

Again, none of this was ever brought up in the past at contract time.

Chipperfield · Post by **Chipperfield** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:05 am

So, here's the problem. Parent of a successful youth player that has spent 10s of thousands of dollars on developing his Bantam A player that plays for a top association and AAA team in the summer. He attends a high school practice and what? It's not even close to the quality of practice his son has been used to. Not near the development occurring. It's a shocker, they fuss, how can this be? Teacher/parent/coach that's getting paid all of $5000 on top of a teachers salary thinks to himself, that's the thanks I get? I teach, I'm a parent, I coach and barely get paid, and these people want Jacque Lemaire on the ice with their kids at 3:30 every day.

Well, the fact of the matter is they do want an NHL quality coach on the ice with their high school player because he's had one since he was frickin 8 years old.

Dear Observer,

This quote from your post serves as a brilliant example of the ridiculous, nonsensical expectations many parents bring to high school hockey programs and their coaches. Furthermore, you expose yourself as possessing an arrogant, egotistical sense of entitlement.

Please remember:

Your kid--and his youth coach--aren't nearly as good as you think they are.

You, and you alone, made the choice to spend all that money on hockey. It now entitles you to nothing.

In the event that your kid actually is that good, I'm sure he can forgo local high school programs and make the jump to an elite program. It sounds like money's no object for you, and it sounds like the kid's all set to go.

High school hockey, like all high schools sports, is an extracurricular activity. How much money can any school, public or private, spend on developing a program?

How many ex NHL'ers are available for hire? Who says these guys automatically make good coaches?

Godd luck.

Puck Whisperer · Post by **Puck Whisperer** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:00 am

Chipperfield wrote:
So, here's the problem. Parent of a successful youth player that has spent 10s of thousands of dollars on developing his Bantam A player that plays for a top association and AAA team in the summer. He attends a high school practice and what? It's not even close to the quality of practice his son has been used to. Not near the development occurring. It's a shocker, they fuss, how can this be? Teacher/parent/coach that's getting paid all of $5000 on top of a teachers salary thinks to himself, that's the thanks I get? I teach, I'm a parent, I coach and barely get paid, and these people want Jacque Lemaire on the ice with their kids at 3:30 every day.

Well, the fact of the matter is they do want an NHL quality coach on the ice with their high school player because he's had one since he was frickin 8 years old.
Dear Observer,

This quote from your post serves as a brilliant example of the ridiculous, nonsensical expectations many parents bring to high school hockey programs and their coaches. Furthermore, you expose yourself as possessing an arrogant, egotistical sense of entitlement.

Please remember:

Your kid--and his youth coach--aren't nearly as good as you think they are.

You, and you alone, made the choice to spend all that money on hockey. It now entitles you to nothing.

In the event that your kid actually is that good, I'm sure he can forgo local high school programs and make the jump to an elite program. It sounds like money's no object for you, and it sounds like the kid's all set to go.

High school hockey, like all high schools sports, is an extracurricular activity. How much money can any school, public or private, spend on developing a program?

How many ex NHL'ers are available for hire? Who says these guys automatically make good coaches?

Godd luck.

Well said and I could not agree more - just had to bold my favorite part though!

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:22 am

Hey little chipper,

You miss understood. The post has nothing to do with my own personal situation. I was sharing a hypothetical viewpoint that I think has some validity. There are some outstanding high school coaches out there and some that aren't as strong. There's some outstanding youth coaches out there and some that aren't as strong. I was suggesting the exact unreal expectations you point to with a little sarcasm. If a player has 6-8 years of outstanding youth coaching there will be disappointment with some high school coaches. Could also be going from 65 games to 25. My observation is that the focus, dedication, passion, determination to improve isn't the same in some situations.

Puck Whisperer · Post by **Puck Whisperer** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:46 am

observer wrote:Hey little chipper,

You miss understood. The post has nothing to do with my own personal situation. I was sharing a hypothetical viewpoint that I think has some validity. There are some outstanding high school coaches out there and some that aren't as strong. There's some outstanding youth coaches out there and some that aren't as strong. I was suggesting the exact unreal expectations you point to with a little sarcasm. If a player has 6-8 years of outstanding youth coaching there will be disappointment with some high school coaches. Could also be going from 65 games to 25. My observation is that the focus, dedication, passion, determination to improve isn't the same in some situations.

Observer,

For what it's worth, I agreed with both you and Chipper - and I got the sarcasm/hypothetical viewpoint in your post. I did not read Chipper's post like he/she was pointing back at you, rather stating the same point.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:04 pm

Puck Whisperer wrote: Observer,

For what it's worth, I agreed with both you and Chipper - and I got the sarcasm/hypothetical viewpoint in your post. I did not read Chipper's post like he/she was pointing back at you, rather stating the same point.

I also read Chippers post like he was pointing a finger at observer from the statement I highlighted...

Chipperfield wrote:Dear Observer,

This quote from your post serves as a brilliant example of the ridiculous, nonsensical expectations many parents bring to high school hockey programs and their coaches. Furthermore, you expose yourself as possessing an arrogant, egotistical sense of entitlement.

Please remember:

Your kid--and his youth coach--aren't nearly as good as you think they are.

You, and you alone, made the choice to spend all that money on hockey. It now entitles you to nothing.

In the event that your kid actually is that good, I'm sure he can forgo local high school programs and make the jump to an elite program. It sounds like money's no object for you, and it sounds like the kid's all set to go.

High school hockey, like all high schools sports, is an extracurricular activity. How much money can any school, public or private, spend on developing a program?

How many ex NHL'ers are available for hire? Who says these guys automatically make good coaches?

Godd luck..

hockeyparent41 · Post by **hockeyparent41** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:37 pm

Chipperfield wrote:
So, here's the problem. Parent of a successful youth player that has spent 10s of thousands of dollars on developing his Bantam A player that plays for a top association and AAA team in the summer. He attends a high school practice and what? It's not even close to the quality of practice his son has been used to. Not near the development occurring. It's a shocker, they fuss, how can this be? Teacher/parent/coach that's getting paid all of $5000 on top of a teachers salary thinks to himself, that's the thanks I get? I teach, I'm a parent, I coach and barely get paid, and these people want Jacque Lemaire on the ice with their kids at 3:30 every day.

Well, the fact of the matter is they do want an NHL quality coach on the ice with their high school player because he's had one since he was frickin 8 years old.
Dear Observer,

This quote from your post serves as a brilliant example of the ridiculous, nonsensical expectations many parents bring to high school hockey programs and their coaches. Furthermore, you expose yourself as possessing an arrogant, egotistical sense of entitlement.

Please remember:

Your kid--and his youth coach--aren't nearly as good as you think they are.

You, and you alone, made the choice to spend all that money on hockey. It now entitles you to nothing.

In the event that your kid actually is that good, I'm sure he can forgo local high school programs and make the jump to an elite program. It sounds like money's no object for you, and it sounds like the kid's all set to go.

High school hockey, like all high schools sports, is an extracurricular activity. How much money can any school, public or private, spend on developing a program?

How many ex NHL'ers are available for hire? Who says these guys automatically make good coaches?

Godd luck.

Great advice! I especially like the last line - who wants Sean Avery (sooner than later to be ex-NHLer) to be their kid's coach?

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:27 pm

So what's the next step at Tech?
Who are the likely candidates? Maybe the AD has someone in mind already.
I'll throw a few names out there.......

Current teachers with coaching experience in St.Cloud area

Paul Bates: former Tech assistant, Boys & Girls head coach two boys in system
Jerry DeGagne: former Sauk Rapids, Tech asst, Willmar head coach
Joel Heitkamp: current Girls coach (Tech and Icebreakers might be merging again)
Icebreaker head coach: see above (sorry can't remember his name)
Chris Johnson: SCC current head coach
Sheldon Westin: Sauk Rapids coach

Wild Cards:
Doc DelCastillo: former SCSU, UAF coach applied for Brainerd HS last year
Mike Hiltner: former Apollo head coach
John Harrington: former SJU head, done in Europe

western · Post by **western** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:01 am

Apparently, the position will be posted next week on the district website according to a guy I know who has contacted the district HR person.

It is Eric Johnson who is head coach at SCC. I'm not sure who is interested, at this point. There are some pretty tough parents on that team; so whoever takes it better go in expecting conflict from Day 1. Here's my take: Bates and Joel H., the girls coach, are friends with the AD; so they would stand the best chance if they applied. If Johnson wanted the job (i.e. more money), he should be able to take it hands down with no competition.

Don't rule out Bantam A coach Mike Denardo, who knows and has coached almost every starter on varsity, but he's not a teacher. Plus, most parents who have had him like him.

brokenbat22 · Post by **brokenbat22** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:34 am

The number of good coaches in MN HS hockey outnumber the bad coaches...certain situations and programs have very limited options on who will coach.

Observer, your post has some interesting points but AAA hockey for squirts is a joke....the entire hockey development system at youth hockey is a joke. Do squirts need a D1 hockey offseason AAA program? HELL NO! Get the kids playing baseball, track, doing some kind of activity, get off the skates....teach them to be athletes....

2 of the best HS hockey players in MN (Ben Hanowski and Nate Schmidt) are outstanding athletes. Both played 3 sports growing up but gave up football as freshman or so I believe to play elite league...numerous others from MN like Paul Martin, Andy Sertich, Gino Guyer, Mike Erickson, Garret Smaagard played more than 1 sport in HS and got D1 schollys

Maybe we should rethink our youth development system. It seems to me that in the current NHL we have many more European skilled players than Americans. Maybe we shoud take a page out of their book. It sickens me to see kids ages 8-14 playing 65 games in a youth season on top of spring, summer and fall hockey...

Hockey was always my favorite sport, except when the blandyman was scoring game winners against me in HS and I had the opportunity to play 3 sports in HS and don't feel that wasting time and money playing hockey all summer would have made me that much better of a hockey player.

We take winning at the youth levels way to serious in MN. Go watch a PeeWee or Bantam game, hell even a squirt game you will find numerous parents whining and complaining about coaching, reffing, playing time, ect....How about we use youth hockey as a development to HS hockey since that is the highest level of hockey the majority of the kids will play at and get them prepared to be successful at that level. That might mean giving the 3rd line peewee player some important ice time because he be that kid you need to help you win a section title...to me that is more important than letting him see 4 shifts a game in a peewee game because you are double or triple shifting your horse to win a meaningless peewee game...

Rant over

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